Adobe fires back at Apple with open letter, new ad campaign - Page 11

That's exactly the problem. No one in their right mind will allow Flash on their hand held platform regardless of what they say for the press. It's not just because Flash sucks, but because it undermines the platform's API. The platform becomes so totally dependent of Flash it might as well be Adobe's crappy platform. At that point Adobe can destroy your platform at will.

If Flash is so great then why did HP cancel their tablet after the great job that Adobe supposedly did on their UI? Why is Google buying BumpTop after the great job that Adobe did on their Chrome OS platform with Flash? I don't believe that Microsoft will allow Flash on their hand held platform when they already have Silver Light. That would be suicidal.

I am starting to really dislike Adobe. They are really turning into a parasite in the industry.

No. That's why so many people are pointing out how inappropriate it is for you to be doing it on virtually every one of your posts.


Just as Apple prioritizes the technologies it supports by their quality.

I don't think anyone cares if Adobe wants to produce a crappy technology that's slightly less crappy on Windows than on other platforms. Where they get concerned is when Adobe tries to shove the crappy technology down the throats of everyone on the planet via their manipulation of the media.

freezes my PC (winXP) through internet explorer 8 for god's sake. Granted the computer is a little old ('05) but it is a research machine with pretty decent specs given todays mid range personal computers: intel pentium(R) dual CPU; 2 Ghz, 3GB RAM) eons of open space on the 2TB HDD. Flash blows!

I don't think that's quite true. Now I realize am making an obvious assumption here that adobe will produce 10.1 and it will work, but you have even less proof than I do to disagree that the other handset makers won't allow flash "in their right minds". All the majors besides iphone have publicly announced they are working with adobe on the new player to bring it to their platform. Surely, Nokia who not only has shown themsleves to most friendly to flash, and even currently has the crappier V9 on their phones currently, will certainly have it, and we're pretty sure android, will have it. And bumptop has nothing to do with flash, it's a desktop UI and a pretty cool one at that I think.


every one of my posts eh, it appears you are far more rude to everyone than I could try to be so I wouldn't be throwing stones in a glass house.

Wrong.

Wow. That sounds great.

But the 5 star restaurant allows random kids to serve free farts from the kitchen.

So I don't think that calling the App Store a 5 star restaurant works at all.

Adobe founders: "We believe that consumers should be able to freely access their favorite content and applications, regardless of what computer they have, what browser they like, or what device suits their needs,"

If this what they truly believe can they explain to me why I have to have their awful plugin on my computers to watch certain content on the web??? Shouldn't I be able to watch video's on the web without ever needing to install the flash plugin?

Best, most succinct post of the entire thread.

Are you calling Adobe a Liar and a Troll?

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Yes, you have. From your very first post in this forum.


Regardless of the rest you wrote, which was reasonable, you framed it in a context that essentially said that folks that disagreed either didn't understand, were only sheep following Steve or simple flash haters. Or all of the above.

On your first post.

Then followed it up with more snide comments about Steveness and Flash haters in later posts.

You are free to do so but don't be surprised if the folks here are extremely tired of folks like you. There has been a rash of trolls assaulting this forum for quite some time and tolerance for such idiocy is at an all time low. This is at least the 2nd time someone has pointed out that you're not acting in a civil manner and I expect you to blow it off again as your responding to attacks.

Your snide little digs are as annoying as Flash ads and about as productive in trying to convince folks that Flash (and you) is not an annoyance that should simply be blocked. Your little digs aren't clever and they are transparent.

Welcome to my flash blocker/ignore list. Unfortunately, I still have to page past the responses to your numerous posts but maybe I'll just skip all the flash threads entirely.

Well, I have to agree with Adoble somewhat. I mean, their technology sucks (and will die), but who is Apple to tell dev's what they can and cannot do. Apple is always preaching about the "open web", but consistantly heads in the other direction by restricting users from what "IT FEELS", is "BAD". Bad for who? Bad for Apple? Yeah. Apple is getting evil.

If you've never seen Safari crash without Flash installed you're a lucky man.

Calm down.

It's pretty simple: if you don't want Flash, don't install it, don't use, don't visit sites that do.

When browsing the web with anything other than iPhone OS, you have that choice.

Exactly, iPhone restricts a users choice. Apple says it is all for "open web" and "user choice". Sure doesn't seem that way to me. Apple controls everything, because it can. When users start to say screw Apple and go to other phones because they can use the content they want.... then maybe Apple will change.

How is it not clear that open web and open development for a platform are not the same issue? Open web. Web based on standards like HTML5. Not web based on proprietary software like Flash. Flash's software is not fully open sourced, many parts of it are not disclosed.

People are free to switch away from Apple if they aren't happy, but a ton more people will be jumping on an iPhone w/the new version, especially if they finally open up to other carriers. If Apple releases a phone for Sprint I'll buy my first Apple product ever (my dad bought the Apple IIe we had when I was a kid) and if they don't I'll pick up the new EVO 4G instead. Either way is a good phone. I won't install Flash on the EVO tho, I'd prefer to keep my battery life.

http://www.zeldman.com/2010/05/14/apple-responds/

Thru Gruber!

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You beat me to it.


It's ironic that all these "iPhone-killers" create their product pages in Flash when they can't even be viewed on their own phones. Their is nothing in on the EVO page that can't be presented with more effiiency using open standards.

Open web and closed platform are two entirely different issues. They are not mutually exclusive.

no, don't put words in my mouth.

I suggested that those who view this as a html5 vs flash issue, don't understand the issues. I stand by that. That's my opinion.

And the flash hater comment, well, before I posted I read this forum quite a bit, to notice that there -some-, that said all kinds of obviously untrue things, because they hate flash.

It's not a dig at all. I'm sorry if you had all kinds of trolls come through here, but it isn't like the others don't throw jabs around quite freely as I found out within a few posts.

Dear Adobe, when the name of your "open" product contains two uses of ® then it isn't open.

http://www.adobe.com/choice/

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that's hilarious.

No one puts words in your mouth, we just read what you write and interpret accordingly. Funny majority of people have interpreted your words the same way. I think you miss the point, if YOU jab someone that person will jab back. Seems to me you need to take some time to know the people before climbing into the ring like 800lbs gorilla to found out you are lightweight,just my opinion.

That is pretty funny, altho admittedly, the phone is being released about the same time as Android 2.2, which will have Flash 10.1, so they'll be able to view it on that phone at least. Like I said, the EVO is my fallback phone. My LG Lotus is nice, but I'm ready for something new and there is nothing else Sprint has that is remotely interesting right now. C'mon Sprint, iPhone or EVO, which will you provide me?

Read what I just posted. If saying I believe people who see it as an html5 vs flash don't understand the issues, and recognizing that there are 'flash haters' here, is a jab.... I can't help you.

My opinions were seen as contrary, and people didn't like it. End of story as far as I'm concerned.

If you want to understand the story behind Flash and why we hate it, read the latest article on Adobe and Apple, it pretty much sums up the Adobe incompetent behaviour, which many of us have known about for a long time. Not sure you read all flash related articles/comments on this site, since you have only joined in May and posted 10 comments per day on average. To me more typing then reading. Anyway your free to do that and we are free to correct you

I know the storey behind flash well, I've developed in it since version 3. I am considered a very advanced actionscript 3 programmer, but I write javascript, PHP probably a lot more. I know the platform really well. I have my own reservations about it, though I think it's still a great platform. I have began refocusing a lo harder on alternate technologies (we all have, at least the smart ones anyway). I'm no adobe shill, but I know what is truth, and what is just ranting.

At the end of the day, I have no allegiance to anyone, except my bank who expects a mortgage cheque every month. Don't misread my comments that perhaps correct something in adobe's favour, as a clear indication of a "side". I know only too well, having switched to developing on a mac in 2003 just how lazy adobe has been, and the problems the mac player has. All the time I had to account for the poor performance and frame rate on the mac player only to see it zip like a bat out of hell on a pc. But it seems people have been a little shell shocked with trolls or whatever, so perhaps that will be more obvious with time.

I actually don't blame people if they hate flash. I just don't hate it myself.

apple is having a hard time in this opinion poll
http://applevsadobe.net

Mmmm... I voted 4 times.. You?

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Flash runs just fine on my HTC Desire with Android 2.1, device I bought from the retail store some weeks ago. Flash for mobile is THERE NOW and it works GREAT. Something must be wrong with your iPhone.

Amusingly it is actually a HTML5 vs Flash issue. Adobe has been playing games with HTML5 on the closed mailing lists which was what that previous ballyhoo was about.

Adobe doesn't fear HTML5 today, what it fears is that HTML5 can significantly reduce the need for flash in the near future (say 5 years). While Adobe has a significant head start in tool development, they don't have the same uneven playing field that they do with Flash and they aren't what we would call a particularly nimble company.

Add in the fact that Google and Apple ARE nimble companies with their own browsers and tool chains and you can understand the fear. Google could release a 80% solution (as they often do) for HTML5 content creation that takes a huge chunk of mind and market share from Adobe. Not in 2010 perhaps but 2012 or 2015? Sure.

The quake 2 GWT port to HTML5 Canvas and WebGL shows that the handwriting is on the wall for flash games. Timeline animation and tweening are two features that could be written into any HTML5/WebGL based game engine. One that if Google builds will be free...and supported by both Android and likely the iPhone. That's but one example of the overall threat of HTML5 to Adobe's content creation market share. TuneKit and other are more examples...and while Adobe could afford to acquire Macromedia it can't do so with Apple and Google...both of whom have their own strategic buying agendas.

In a war between Apple, Google and MS for the mobile computing space collateral damage to Adobe's product line is more than likely.

To state that folks misunderstand this threat to Adobe is disingenuous.

And elsewhere:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=109349
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=4244

O'rly?

http://arstechnica.com/security/news...m_campaign=rss

Here is yet another security bug due to closed eco-system that is proprietary and cross platform. Die! Flash! Die!!

The supporters of Adobe are requested to downgrade Acrobat Reader and upgrade Flash to the latest beta.

Haha couldn't agree more! I visited a Flickr gallery the other day and it made my laptop heat up, fans spin up. It's poorly written software and they have not modernised their code because they've taken the easy road to maximise profits rather than develop and innovate.

I love how Steve has taken a stance in our interests and is winning the war. Well done to Steve and thank you!

The hungry to the max Flash gallery. Try clicking through the images quickly. My browser goes over 100% of one core usage (50% total on a Core 2 Duo).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/adamjac...82180109/show/

Devils advocate, Adobe could argue that the website is badly coded - a crap flash application is going to be just as bad as a badly written Flash plugin.

Have you tried 10.1RC7 with Safari 5? the ability for Flash 10.1 to access Core Animation has dramatically cut the CPU utilisation and hopefully once Flash 10.1 Gala is released the CPU utilisation will drop even further.

on a machine without the newer plugin, core2 duo, I ran it, and my fans didn't come on at all.

FAIL.

Such BS! Even with nothing but the OS-related processes are running your fans are on.

Clearly the poster was talking about the fans ramping up because of much higher heat.

I didn't hear my fans ramp up at all. There. All better now?

With other posters I would have that thought that is what they meant, but you are so slanted any against tech that competes with Flash and have made such wild exaggerated claims about Flash being just as efficient, if not more so, as native webcode that it seems unlikely you would write that if it wasn't what you were trying to spin.

PS: Do you often refer to yourself in the third person?

you're full of crap. I have not been slanted whatsoever. I simply set things straight. Please show where. I write in a number of different languages, and think each one is very good at certain things. I'm not a fool shrieking nonsense about one technology, like a few I've seen here.

And, show where I refer to myself in the 3rd person. I believe in my last few posts, "I", and "my", is not 3rd person.

Do you always bullshit like this? Seems to come naturally.

You can show where the "wild exaggerated claims" are too while you're at it. But I won't hold my breath...