Wireless iPhone sync software rejected by Apple from App Store - Page 3

Good possiblility that a feature of the new Iphone has something similar to this when it is released.
I can see Apples concerns over security in this app as it probably would be able to be synced to others iPODs as well with a little bit of hacking.

when i first read about the app being submitted for approval, i thought the developer was announcing it, because he expected it to be rejected. i fully expected he was going to be another developer using outrage over his rejection as a marketing gimmick.

maybe i'm just too cynical...

I can understand Apple rejecting this app, especially if they have plans to implement their own wireless syncing. If that's the case, then it would suck for Apple to allow this app to be purchased only to then have it be built in to the OS for free later. There are also issues of support, security, etc...

For those wondering about why we would want wireless syncing...

I rarely have a need to plug my iPhone into my computer (other than to sync). I have an alarm clock, a stereo, a car dock and a dock for my boat stereo. My iPhone is constantly being charged.

Often times, I just want to add one song or a few pictures to my iPhone and it just seems unnecessary to stop my iPhone, unplug it, find the cable for my computer, plug it in, sync, and then reverse the steps to get it back to the device it was playing on.

Likewise, it would be nice to have automated/scheduled syncing. Last night, I had several videos being transcoded for my iPhone. It would've been nice to have been able to have scheduled iTunes to sync wirelessly at 4am so it would be ready to go (along with my podcasts as well), but this wasn't possible since my iPhone was in my alarm clock. So after waking up, I had to plug it into my computer and wait for it to sync...thus taking up far more of my time than had I been able to sync wirelessly.

Does this app prevent users from doing system updates wirelessly (I suspect not)

Does it check the battery level beforehand to ensure it won't die mid-sync? (I suspect not)

Does it access the filesystem in some way that doesn't violate guidelines (I suspect not)

Can the developer submit any evidence that this discussion took place like an e-mail from Apple? (I suspect not).

These kinds of stories always get the trolls excited because they are ALWAYS one sided. Once in a very rare blue moon, Apple might comment on some high profile app like Skype, but those are exceedingly rare. In this case, we just have the word of some pissed of developer with a seemingly poor implementation.

Would wireless sync be nice? Somewhat. I could see syncing calendar info, and possibly app purchases, assuming they could do so securely, and I'm not talking only about user security but also about app security in regards to pirating and whatnot).

Will I get all weepy that I don't have to plug a cable in? Hardly.

it's not. you can have an iphone that is not jailbroken and be happy as a clam.

what dismays me about this is that this gentlemen doesn't seem to have tried to deal with the security issue etc. he comes off like "okay screw you Apple, i'll just go to Cydia" instead of wanting to do a little more work.

Jailbreaking can also cause issues and voids one's warranty. Even if you restore the phone without the break, if it comes up that you ever did break it, Apple can refuse to provide any service per the TC of the warranty. Even to the point perhaps of putting a note on your phone's serial number in case you try to go to another store etc.


not true. As the actual owner of said laptop, I can place any conditions I want on the rental of said unit. If you complete the rental you have agreed to the conditions and can be penalized for violation as a breach of contract. So if I say that you can not install your own software you can't. If I say that you will have to pay a $500 fine for install your own software and you refuse to pay it, I can take you to court. If I pull out a signed contract that spells out these items and clearly shows your signature, the court is more likely to side with me.

Also, when you buy a computer, phone etc. it was made with a particular OS. You know this when you buy it. So you buy it knowing that not all software will work by virtue of technology. I buy a Mac and I know (unless I'm a total moron) that my copy of Office for Windows won't work.

The only difference with the iphone is the issue of whether, all else being equal tech wise, Apple has the legal right to say their store or no. At this point, the courts haven't refuted that right. So until someone turns it into a court case and Apple gets slapped down and told they can't restrict apps so long as the language etc is correct, they can and will continue on their way

Exactly. Every time something like this comes up we get this moaning and groaning reaction. Ground Hog Day here on AI. People need to just consider what they want, and get that. If you don't like the features and usefulness of <fill in name of Apple Inc. product>, then find and buy another product that you find more suited. Countless analogies have been given here to illustrate that Apple designs and sells products and services to match their plans, they don't custom create products to the specific desires of each of us. People who post here that they have decided to not buy something from Apple, and instead have purchased and are using another device seem to be behaving sensibly to me. (As long as they don't keep repeating it!)

Huh? Apple <is> not stopping you? They attempt to control what you can install and run with nearly every OS update. Thus newer version of jailbreaking software in a constant back and forth. Where have you been? It's very simple.

I have always been concerned with security, where warranted. I have banking and credit card information on my devices. As well as apps in development which contain proprietary data.

As I explained, in my post, I don't want these transmitted over WiFi if doing so will allow them to be compromised.

I don't send confidential emails over unsecured WiFi. My routers are secure. When at insecure WiFi locations I don't send sensitive data in the clear!


However, as i look at the neighbors WiFi connections available to me, several are insecure... not everyone knows or cares about the risk!


So, a user who doesn't understand the risk, buys a WiFi synch app from the Apple's app store. He installs it on his unsecured network, and suddenly his credit cards and contact info (with personal comments) are all over town.

Who's he gonna' blame (sue)... Poor Joe Developer... or Deep Pockets Apple?

When you own a store there is an implied guarantee that you will not sell products that you know can be harmful, without proper warning... it is unethical, and may also be illegal!

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hmm yeah...
you have the choice to remove your wisdom teeth without any anesthesia as well
get a droid and stop playing the victim for god's sake...it will only get you so far

There's no porn, no copyright or trademark issues. it's not just calling web based content, doesn't use any private APIs, is totally written in native code (which technically doesn't kick in until 4.0 is live). it isn't app spam etc.

Gee, wasn't that long ago Apple fans were derisively fighting off nearly identical defenses of Microsoft. I'm amazed how many people continue to give Apple a pass for things that were "bad" when Microsoft was involved.

I don't know about that. One post here the other day had one douchebag posting approximately 40 times (1/10th of the thread), and I don't believe that is an exaggeration, but I lost count a couple of times and all he was doing was alternating between trollbaiting and defending himself against because accused of trolling.

Stop feeding the trolls, people. For the love of Jobs.

Nah... you're a realist!

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I guess. It wasn't me, I could care less what Microsoft does.

you know, the Kindle allows you to sync and use thier device without the need of a computer, so why not the iPhone or iPad? My guess is they're working on it. But, it seems like Apple would gain a HUGE portion of the market if they allowed the iPhone, iPad and iPod touches the ability to sync without a computer.

One of the Pluses for Nook and Kindle users is:
1. syncing without a computer
2. a battery that lasts a week without a charge.

I know this is a posting for the iPhone, but it opens up the discussion for all thier mobile devices.

Syncing over 802.11g would suck. If you have a lot of apps/songs, and your backing up your phone, USB 2.0 already takes interminably long. So, wireless syncing is really only practical for iPhone GS, and hopefully, the new iPhone 4.0. It also occurs to me that when Apple rejects an app in circumstances like this, it is often because the app is stomping on a feature that Apple is getting ready to release. I'm looking forward to finding out!

The latter leads to the former by definition. For you to separate the two is semantics, not reality. A difference that makes no difference is no difference.

It's also a disingenuous argument because you and everyone else knows that Apple rejecting an app is basically a death knell for the app. Since only a small % of users jailbreak (and Apple does everything they can to thwart jailbreaking with each firmware update), no developer can effectively make a living selling through Cydia instead of the App Store. Stop pretending that your technicality somehow obviates the truth.

How does he turn off backup?

How does he allow the backup to take place?

Does he perform the backup?

Isn't that a "system" function of the OS the Device and iTunes?

If it is, are there public APIs that provide access to backup?

Can he disable other functions during backup to prevent corruption?

Can he assure that the backup is reliable?

How?

Some, but not all files that get synched, are accessible on the device through public APIs, how does he handle any that are not?

Can he assure that the files and their metadata are synched without data loss or corruption.


Without satisfactory answers to all of the above, would you accept it if you were Apple?

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I already addressed that, your scenario assumes that the user never does a wired sync ever again. Even one wired sync a week would be plenty. Much of the important data is synced anyway.

You see this over ATT's network in the near future (as you say it is not that far off)? You really are an optimist considering I got video about 25% of the time on the CBS NCAA app. When I got video most of the time it was highly pixelated and jerky.

But, right around the corner I am going to get "gapless, seemless, and in full quality, over the air" movies?

I think it could pretty much be guaranteed that some non-zero percentage of users would never do a wired sync again.

That will be the case. However, how far should that argument be carried out? Should Apple not provide the charger block for the risk that buyers never sync again and blame Apple? I don't know if my parents have ever synced their iPhones outside of initial activation. There's only so much that can be done to isolate yourself from stupid users.

[QUOTE=macslut;1632505]
Often times, I just want to add one song or a few pictures to my iPhone and it just seems unnecessary to stop my iPhone, unplug it, find the cable for my computer, plug it in, sync, and then reverse the steps to get it back to the device it was playing on.
QUOTE]

I think you may be embelishing your point here a bit. Despite the fact you spread it out over 2 sentences, unless you leave your cable on your roof this all takes a maximum of 5-10 seconds, which gaurenteed will be made up ten fold in the time it takes your computer took sync versus the time it takes to do it wirelessly.

Geez I mean I suppose its a neat idea, but are really we all that lazy that walking 10 steps to your computer to sync is a huge inconvenience? Does anyone ACTUALLY care that much about this app?

Eh, at least it's just 1 guy and you can ignore his comments and then the thread becomes clean. On MR it's just a straight cluster IMO, it's full of 1 liners and will take you 15 pages to find someone who cares enough to write a full analysis and are actually intelligent. I put up with the occasional troll on AI because the ratio of intelligent posts to worthless is probably 10 times higher than MR.

At the rate technology advances it really isnt that improbable man.

I mean, I'm sure 20 years ago two people had a conversation where one said "your telling me right around the corner from now I will be able to carry a little wireless phone in my pocket and be able to talk to anyone, anytime, anywhere?!?!

Lol crazier things have happened dude...

For all the exhausted denizens of yesterday's swamp:

http://www.zeldman.com/2010/05/14/apple-responds/

Thru Gruber!

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I totally agree with you. I too am a Podcast junkie as well, i use my iPod Classic about 3-6 hours per day and i never have to charge it. It goes back to my previous comment that Apple is missing a huge market of people that want an ipod/phone/pad, but don't want to rely on thier computer to sync.

Looks like it's time to jailbreak my iPod touch! It is mine, after all, I think.

Thanks for making the battle lines clear, Apple!

It's before my time so I'm not sure of the details of the gripes of Apple users then, but there is a slight difference: Apple does not have 90% of the market; it doesn't even have half! In fact, Android fanboys were celebrating that the Android has "won" the market war against the iPhone (though that hasn't stopped anybody from calling the iPhone a monopoly, so maybe I'm thinking about this too logically).

See my post above...I totally agree with you. I was just thinking Apple needs some kind of Hybrid AppleTV+Time Capsule = iHome. That way users don't need a computer at all to own an iPod/Pad/Phone. They can use the iHome with built-in iTunes, and sync all devices from that. It would open a huge market of away from PC/Laptops completely and into something the Average person (notice i don't call them "users") could own.

of course they do already have a device out there that does all this, it's called the Mac Mini, but what i'm referring to should be much simpler, like the iPad, but just a base station you can connect to your modem and TV, use your "accessories" to control it.

Ya I mean I think its been said to death already but again it's APPLE'S App store. People take these rules for creating apps way to far.. they are guidelines for creating apps that have an opportunity to be excepted, but they aren't laws placed on apple. Apple can reject an app simply because they think it won't get downloaded.. or that it sucks. They OWN the store.. It has THEIR name on it.. if they don't want something represented in their store, they have every right to say no.

We've only heard second hand from the dev as to Apples reasoning. He hasn't published their official response. As far as I can see, this app is not what Apple intends Apps to be, therefor, it isn't approved, and it wouldn't be approved. Common sense dictates it. Everyone knows a 3rd party app can only transfer files to and from itself with a pc, (wirelessly), not the built in apple apps. Syncing does exactly that. So the dev knew it and wasted his time anyway to force the issue into discussion when Apple inevitably rejected. End of story.

It is Apple's store but they have to show some respect to the devs. He broke no rules. Period. It's not even like there is a chance to sell his app on the web to iPhone OS users unless they jailbreak. If this kind of thing continues, no dev is going to waste time and money (for some tens of thousands of dollars) creating an app that might get rejected. All the iPhone will become is a glorified game machine this way.

It may be a security risk though I'm sure most in this forum wouldn't know because they haven't used the app or don't have the expertise (like myself). I can say that the Zune has been doing this for years and I've not heard any complaints.

Never?

How do you get your podcasts?

I've got a perpetual motion charger plugged into it, smarty pants...

It's not about isolating oneself from stupid users (the scenario where one doesn't sync at all and the one where one syncs without backup are not equivalent) it's about things working as expected. A sync where backup isn't done is not as expected, and even if it's the fault of users and a 3rd party (although, offering it in the app store can be seen as Apple sanctioning it) Apple ends up with the support burden and the bad feelings of users.

Never?

How do you get your podcasts?

And you answered:
So I am to understand that your 'Perpetual Motion Charger' does not charge your iPod, but you can download podcasts with it?

True, but there is a symbiotic relationship that Jobs often appears to hold in less regard than he should. Unwittingly or not, he fosters the perception that he feels developers should be grateful for his platform, and they should be thankful he allows them to sell apps in his store. I'm not saying he does/doesn't believe that, but that his actions can be taken as such by some. "Some" include companies (people) who invest time, energy, creativity, and intellectual/monetary capital to put products on "his" store. How many apps does Apple create? Without the efforts of developers to populate "his" store with things people want to buy, there would be no reason to buy "his" phone or "his" iPad.

iPodyes, it's a great stand-alone music player and iTunes is a terrific, convenient way to purchase and manage digital music (though, Apple does not create music either) with or without apps. The iPhone without apps is just a not-so-special phone that costs more than most, and is tied to one carrier with questionable coverage. Without the apps, the iPad is an expensive portable but overly heavy email/web browsing, video and music device that has too small of storage capacity to be worth the price for the latter two functions.

What I'm getting at is that Apple, as far as keeping it's edge as a mobile device maker, needs app developers as much, and yes probably more, than they need Apple. As Droid becomes more evolved and ubiquitous, developers will invest their time, energy, and money in the platform that yields the greatest profit and is the least pain in the as$ to develop for. The only reliable constant in life is the fact that everything changes. Right now Apple is the mobile king, so Jobs can afford to be a bit of a bully. If and when (probably when) the worm turns, developers will remember the present atmosphere Jobs is creating. Better to be a little pushy with a smile and a bit of understanding, than to be an obnoxious bully with no empathy on the day people in that symbiotic relationship whom you've been trying to get your way with, realize they outnumber you.

If this guy really wanted to stick it to Apple and get rich at the same time he would put it on Cydia and Rock for 99cents, even for just a few days. Everyone would get it.

When you ask folks that come here to name all the iPhone apps that Apple has rejected you will be lucky to get more than a dozen names. And more often than not, half of them weren't rejected at all.

If you asked how many developers made money on Cydia or Rock. I doubt there are more than a couple. In fact, I doubt that anybody could name any of the apps that are posted there.

Certainly doesn't seem that these two sites with less than 175 apps that nobody knows about are worth jailbreaking their iPhone over.

Opting out for a Good Will App store vs Apples iTunes App store with over 200,000 apps to choose from just doesn't equate to Apples' developer strategy of going down anytime soon.

And your contention that if 'this' guy did put it on C or R for even a few days that everyone would get it is 'wishful' thinking. Heck, most of the complainers here don't own an iPhone in the first place.