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Google introduces Android-powered Apple TV competitor - Page 4

post #121 of 286
Well, as someone who loves his Apple TV I have to say, this looks like it could well beat it.

I don't understand the need for a browser on the TV (my PS3's got that and I never use it), but something that would pull everything together into one nice, unified interface would be great.

The stance Apple have taken with Apple TV seems a bit odd to me. It's fine to call it a hobby, but when I take on a project as a hobby I tend to be continually evolving it and changing it, but Apple TV seems to be the same now as it was when they first introduced movie rentals on it (with a couple of UI tweaks). I do think it could be a lot more, but it would be enough if they could figure out a way to have "rental" of individual TV episodes, either backed by advertising or something that you pay a sensible amount to watch something once. I don't want to have to buy a TV episode (unlike films, I'm never going to watch a TV episode more than once), so some form of rental would make Apple TV a much more useful proposition, for me at least.

The one thing that bothers me about the Google TV is that I've found a lot of what they have done, excluding their search, seems a little "half-baked" somehow. I'm not sure exactly what makes me think that, but it's a nagging issue.......
post #122 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

It's more than a browser: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome_OS

Well, from that source:

Quote:
... As a browser incorporating a media player will be the only application residing on the device, ...

So, from the perspective of the user experience, it's just a browser.
post #123 of 286
This looks a lot more like a TiVo competitor than an AppleTV competitor.
post #124 of 286
I just don't believe Eric Schmidt can be trusted with fully indexed and cross referenced TV/Movie/video viewing habits for an entire nation. It's just too much information in one repository, controlled by the one guy who has worse privacy instincts than Mark Zuckerberg.

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post #125 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

No, use a separate box that plugs into the ATV for this. You definitely don't want to load it's processor ........

Again, this is MUCH better handled by an external box. Just repackage the drive ......

Big deal. Make it three separate boxes if needed, but patch them together with a nice-looking external skin, and call it "Apple TV."
post #126 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

I hope this happens but i doubt it. Not a good idea to mislead your share holders by calling apple tv a hobby and then surprising everyone by releasing an apple tv device with iphoneOS. ...

Yeah, that whole iPhone/iPad thing has been a disaster for them, releasing them after Steve said no one wanted to watch video on a little screen. I hear the shareholders are up in arms about this, as well they should be!
post #127 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

Could you elaborate on that? Are you saying that the Google TV and your Cable Box will both be connected to the HDMI-1 port on the TV? Does Google TV have an integrated HDMI switcher? So the cable box connects to the google box and somehow google auto switches between input based on if you turn the google box on?

That would be pretty cool...

Yeah, the Google TV box (if not integrated into the tv like the Sony Bravia) will connect to the TV using HDMI. Also looks like the cable signal will go through the Google TV box so you won't have to switch signals to use Google TV. This allows for the seamless integration that they showed.

So for example when you want to search for something (upcoming show, movies that are on, what ever) a single search bar shows up at the top of the screen over-layed over the show you are watching and you can type or say your search query. The results are also overlayed over your current programming so you can continue to watch your show while your are using these features.

Another example they showed was browsing the web while having your programming show in an in-picture window.

Another feature was using google translate to translate the close-caption in realtime while your watching your show.

Looked pretty nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

I've said it before and I'll say it again.... non-tech types will not use any form of VIDEO SIGNAL SWITCHER and implementing them is going to give you nothing but upset wives, inlaws, parents, etc.

Lol, yup. Fully agree with you. That's one reason Google TV looks very promising.
post #128 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockaw View Post

AppleTV is a "hobby" because Apple chose to not integrate DVR functionality. End of story.

If AppleTV had a built in DVR, they would sell millions of them. Instead, you have to kludge it into your hometheater setup and juggle inputs between the TiVo and the AppleTV. It's just confusing to many TV watchers (not you or me or others on this forum, but it's difficult for your mother in law or grandmother).

It's not too late for Apple to add DVR. The extra hardware sales will offset the incremental loss in iTunes downloads for TV Shows.

You're wrong. The reason why it's a "hobby" is because the networks have refused to go along with a subscription service or $.99/show that Apple offered. You can already get a DVR for ont $10/month but the truth is that it's really not worth it. Networks already program their best shows to start a couple of minutes after you start your dvr so you miss the ending (ie American Idol). They want the ad paid equivalent to a live audience.

The issue is the networks will not cave until there is a web revenue plan that equals what they get paid now. This is part of the reason why iAds exists.
post #129 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by robogobo View Post

This will fail for the same reason Apple TV fails. Most people who would consider this will also easily figure out that you can just hook up a bigger monitor or tv to any old computer.

Actually, that's exactly why it'll succeed. But most non-techies don't want to be bothered with connecting an old computer or any computer to their TV.

I think people are missing the point here. It's not one box. It's just like the phone side of the house. Google provides the software, the OEMs' build the box. And the cable cos will sell the box.

In a year or two when you go to your cable/satellite co. you'll have the option of purchasing/leasing a vanilla cable receiver/DVR or a Google box made by Logitech, Sony, Samsung, Scientific Atlanta (maybe), etc.
post #130 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yeah, that whole iPhone/iPad thing has been a disaster for them, releasing them after Steve said no one wanted to watch video on a little screen. I hear the shareholders are up in arms about this, as well they should be!

The difference is he didn't say those things in a quarterly financial call.
post #131 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

Well considering the Apple TV actually exists, and the Google TV does not, I think Apple has an enormous lead.

That said, I think you hit on the key issues though. ATV needs a browser (and keyboard support of some sort to go with it), and an app store. These really do seem like complete no-brainers.

I would also like to see several hardware options, including a DVD and tuner.

Google's main advantage is with multiple partners they can give you all those hardware options you are asking for. Want GoogleTV built into your LCD HDTV so there is no extra box? You'll be able to get that. Want GoogleTV with a Blu-ray player? You'll be able to get that. Want GoogleTV with a DVR? You can probably bet someone will offer that as well. etc.

Apple hasn't sold that many AppleTVs. Yes they have sold more than Google at this stage but I don't think we can call it an "enormous lead" or Apple would have published sales figures and would not be calling it a hobby.

The AppleTV is a good idea but was probably ahead of its time. Home internet speeds weren't good enough and there were difficulties with content licensing especially outside the US. Given a few more years and various improvements maybe the AppleTV would have started to take off, but now GoogleTV is launching I think demand for the AppleTV will disappear.

Maybe Apple will release a GoogleTV app so I can watch the TV shows and movies I bought from iTunes.
post #132 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

The issue really isn't that simple. Hulu will eventually block this because they want users to watch it live for ratings. Watching a couple of clips is cool but there really isn't a solution here.

You guys are all assuming, that this is all about Hulu. It's not. Heck, most of the rest of the world doesn't even get Hulu. This is more than that. Just imagine that in a few years each of the networks has an app for Google TV and streams content directly to your TV.

HTPC's are great. But they are cumbersome to setup and operate for the average person. This thing will simply replace your current cable box. And you'll get extra functionality. That's it.

Don't think of it as a competitor to Apple TV (which is really just a box that extends iTunes to your TV...nothing more). Think of it as a replacement for the cable co DVR sitting in your living room right now. That's where this whole thing is heading.
post #133 of 286
I love the fact that Mr. Softy is left back with the dust. Who knows with all the cash that they have maybe they can buy their way out of this.
post #134 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Fix View Post

I want an APPLE SEARCH ENGINE!!!!

what would they call it spotlight.com?
post #135 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Google is hilarious talking about Google TV in the present tense and like they really know what consumers want, yet only showing cartoon mock-ups. Google also acts like we've never seen a TiVo or other DVR with search. It appears GTV will not include DVR functionality. Whoop-dee-doo.

Watch the keynote: http://www.youtube.com/user/GoogleDevelopers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

As to why Apple never provided a web browser in the Apple TV, perhaps they will now, but only after a hardware refresh that provides Bluetooth wireless keyboard/mouse. Just by supporting a keyboard, mouse and browser, any device like Apple TV or a DVR would become far easier to use and blow GTV out of the water.

In the keynote they used a blue tooth keyboard to control the Google TV, but they said they will leave it up to developers and manufacturers to create input/control devices.

I think Apple will come out with a killer product that you might be able to control using your iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad or some multi-touch enabled device.
post #136 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetlaw View Post

this looks a lot more like a tivo competitor than an appletv competitor.

+1.....
post #137 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppDev View Post

I think Apple will come out with a killer product that you might be able to control using your iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad or some multi-touch enabled device.

I hope so. That would be, indeed, a killer.

I am still wondering/puzzled: What the heck is that USB slot for, in @tv?! Does anyone know?
post #138 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I hope so. That would be, indeed, a killer.

I am still wondering/puzzled: What the heck is that USB slot for, in @tv?! Does anyone know?

External hard-drive?
post #139 of 286
Not that I think Hulu is central to the success of this Google project, but how would Hulu block this?

Presumably, you would just use the Chrome browser that's built into the OS to access Hulu and play content. How would they distinguish whether you're using Chrome on a laptop or Chrome on a GTV box?

I could be wrong. Just asking....
post #140 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I hope so. That would be, indeed, a killer.

I am still wondering/puzzled: What the heck is that USB slot for, in @tv?! Does anyone know?

Yes, you use it to hack the apple tv so you can install boxee and watch hulu of course!
http://code.google.com/p/atvusb-creator/

But seriously an apple technician told me it was for diagnostics, at least in the short term.
post #141 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

External hard-drive?

Not that I know of.

Can you say more?
post #142 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Not that I think Hulu is central to the success of this Google project, but how would Hulu block this?

Presumably, you would just use the Chrome browser that's built into the OS to access Hulu and play content. How would they distinguish whether you're using Chrome on a laptop or Chrome on a GTV box?

I could be wrong. Just asking....

Every browser must send an html header telling the site which browser just accessed. Hulu can and does block based on browser type. For example engadget today says hulu does not work with the new google mobile os announced today.
post #143 of 286
The thing that will sell this, imho, is not the Google brand or the features or what have you. It's the distribution network. Unless Apple revamps Apple TV and starts selling the box through the cable co. it'll be largely restricted to die-hard Apple fans. After all, when people think cable box, they aren't very likely to think Apple Store. But GTV is an operating system that'll be baked into your HDTV or the box your cable co is leasing to you. In a couple of years, Android powered cable boxes and tv will be ubequitous.
post #144 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Not that I know of.

Can you say more?

MacBook Air SuperDrive ?
USB sync to mac/pc?
Usb speakers?
charging stuff?
post #145 of 286
I for one welcome this... I do not consider Google evil....yet! at least not anything like Microsoft. Sadly, Apple hasn't really done much with the AppleTV. Sure, they upgraded the interface but not really much else. There is so much potential there and lots of room for innovation but either Apple lost interest in it or just couldn't really grasp the whole potential of the product and innovate it out.

I tried an AppleTV once and thought it was cool but realized that a Mac Mini would serve me better for a media device since it's a full computer, I can still Web Browse on it, Play DVD's, and so much more than what the AppleTV does.

If you think Google is just out to steal ideas, you are sorely wrong. Google Chrome was made for simplicity and speed. Same thing with Android. It may or may not be the best in any ones opinion but it surely is not crap nor bloatware like some other companies out there. I say great, let them innnovate in an area that Apple has left to the dust.

Look at what happend when Microsoft owned the whole browser market, they let it sit there and do nothing. Same thing what Apple is doing with the AppleTV. I look forward to see where Apple leads the AppleTV next. Competition is a good thing. It creates innovation. Yeahhh!
post #146 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

Every browser must send an html header telling the site which browser just accessed. Hulu can and does block based on browser type. For example engadget today says hulu does not work with the new google mobile os announced today.

Does that mean they'd block out all Chrome visitors? That's what I'm asking. How would they distinguish between a laptop Chrome visitor and a GTV chrome visitor?

It's easy on a phone because the browser in Android isn't a full Chrome browser. But, I would presume the browser that's baked into the GTV OS would be the same as any laptop, right? Why distinguish them?
post #147 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Not that I know of.

Can you say more?

It's a diagnostic port.
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post #148 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppDev View Post

Yeah, the Google TV box (if not integrated into the tv like the Sony Bravia) will connect to the TV using HDMI. Also looks like the cable signal will go through the Google TV box so you won't have to switch signals to use Google TV. This allows for the seamless integration that they showed. So for example when you want to search for something (upcoming show, movies that are on, what ever) a single search bar shows up at the top of the screen over-layed over the show you are watching and you can type or say your search query. The results are also overlayed over your current programming so you can continue to watch your show while your are using these features. Another example they showed was browsing the web while having your programming show in an in-picture window. Another feature was using google translate to translate the close-caption in realtime while your watching your show. Looked pretty nice. Lol, yup. Fully agree with you. That's one reason Google TV looks very promising.

Yea after watching it for a 3rd time I did notice that type of behavior... but I'm still left to wonder if that 'pop-over-video' behavior was good for content coming from the cable box OR if it could only happen with video content provided by internet sources.

My reason for wondering this is as follows....

HDMI is supposed to be an encrypted signal and only the TV/Display will have the ability to remove the encryption and display the full resolution of whatever was being pushed out of the cable box. If that is true and I think it is... then how would a 3rd party box have the ability to 'de-encrypt' the HDMI signal and then 'overlay the google menus, etc' re-encrypt and push the final signal onto the HDTV?

I'm getting VERY far away from my comfort zone as I bring these issues up since I know just about enough HDMI protocols and the encryption to fill an index card (on one side - double spaced with wide margins).

There may be provisions in the protocols that allow for this (for all I know) but to me it might be an issue, knowing how ANAL the content owners are over hamstringing its CUSTOMERS from doing what they want in the most ANNOYING way possible.

I guess time will tell...
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post #149 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It's a diagnostic port.

Yes the only way to get to the harddrive on apple tv is rip the GLUED case apart. So they had to get access to the hardrive.
post #150 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Presumably, you would just use the Chrome browser that's built into the OS to access Hulu and play content. How would they distinguish whether you're using Chrome on a laptop or Chrome on a GTV box?

That's a surprising question coming from a former worker in the "security and intelligence sector."
post #151 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Does that mean they'd block out all Chrome visitors? That's what I'm asking. How would they distinguish between a laptop Chrome visitor and a GTV chrome visitor?

It's easy on a phone because the browser in Android isn't a full Chrome browser. But, I would presume the browser that's baked into the GTV OS would be the same as any laptop, right? Why distinguish them?

They do it with browser version numbers.
post #152 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesw View Post

Google is becoming a ravenous rat.

the "Me Too" company.

pathetic.

Riiiight. Seriously? Cause before Apple TV even existed their was MSN TV. Which, if MSN TV had succeeded, would be better competition for Google then Apple's with the browser alone. Regardless there is such thing as competition. I mean, its not like Apple invented the MP3 player either.

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post #153 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

They do it with browser version numbers.

Stupid followup if you will. Are version numbers always different from platform to platform? Is it a must that the GTV version would be different from the desktop version?
post #154 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It's a diagnostic port.

That's what Apple says. I wonder, though......
post #155 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Does that mean they'd block out all Chrome visitors? That's what I'm asking. How would they distinguish between a laptop Chrome visitor and a GTV chrome visitor?

It's easy on a phone because the browser in Android isn't a full Chrome browser. But, I would presume the browser that's baked into the GTV OS would be the same as any laptop, right? Why distinguish them?

Browsers send user agent identifaction to webservers. For example: "Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_3; en-US) AppleWebKit/533.4 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/5.0.375.38 Safari/533.4"

go to http://kluge.in-chemnitz.de/tools/browser.php and you can see what your browser is telling the server.
post #156 of 286
edit: Pipped by Orlando.
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post #157 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

That's what Apple says. I wonder, though......

I don't think it should be doubted. While they may have planned to use it for other things if the hobby ever became mature enough, the design of the box does need a way to access the system without ripping it apart, as stevetim states.

Personally, it's not even worth discussing that much. They tried something and movie studios didn't play ball in the timeframe and way Apple wanted. Now we have a plethora of devices that have fairly decent internet and network capabilities. All I see Google doing here is offering their OS as the basis for all these appliances. Apple needs to come in with an entirely revamped AppleTV, letting go of Mac OS and x86 to harness the efficiency of their iPhone OS on ARM, sans CocoaTouch of course. But they also need to have deals set up and offer services and features that only Apple can excel in, the way they are doing with the iPad.
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post #158 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Stupid followup if you will. Are version numbers always different from platform to platform? Is it a must that the GTV version would be different from the desktop version?

Here is a good example that will answer your question. These are actual headers caught on a web server log file.

First is iphone safari hit: "Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F136 Safari/525.20"

Second is regular mac safari hit: "Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_5; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.2 Safari/525.20.1"

So a programmer can use this header info and direct accordingly.
post #159 of 286
Looks very interesting and given the tragic nature of virtually all cable company provided set top boxes. very welcome.

As for Apple TV, I own one and use it to rent movies and watch stuff in my iTunes library. It's moderately useful but compared to what Google TV could potentially do, laughably dated.

It's really too bad Apple don't think the living room is worthy of their full attention, or even any attention at all. Apple TV needs a radical overhaul.
post #160 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

Here is a good example that will answer your question. These are actual headers caught on a web server log file.

First is iphone safari hit: "Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F136 Safari/525.20"

Second is regular mac safari hit: "Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_5; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.2 Safari/525.20.1"

So a programmer can use this header info and direct accordingly.

This begs the question of whether or not a browser manufacturer could in fact make it send whatever they liked (i.e. could you make a browser for desktop that sends the same header as the iPhone does)? What I'm getting at is, could you trick the server into doing what you want and hence, stop someone like Hulu being able to block you?
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