Google compares Apple to 'Big Brother' from iconic 1984 ad - Page 8

Originally Posted by KindredMac

Apple is indeed the Big Brother of this generation. I have no problems saying that.

It all started with the iPod though, not as recently as the iPhone as Google is saying.

If you want to use an iPhone or iPad you NEED to use iTunes... You NEED an iTunes account. That right there is restricting. And what is Apple's reasoning behind this? "It just works better that way" is the usual response. Well I'm sure IBM thought the same way when they were considered the top dog.

But the funniest thing about this whole story is that this argument is coming from Google...

They are actually more of a threat to being the next Evil Empire. Hell they have been collecting data on people for years and when they get caught only reply with "Oops, our bad. Sorry."

What we have here is the basis of Capitalism. The reason for starting a business is to grow your business and make more money. Being the top dog SHOULD be your goal. So why is one business pointing fingers at another because they are successful??? A little bit of Marketing and a pinch of jealousy thrown in for good measure, that's why.

Originally Posted by Aizmov

http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/05...rites-history/

Originally Posted by Groovetube

read that. It's troubling to see any one of them get a monopoly, which is why I'm glad to see both apple, and google prosper in the space. However, we need at least a good 3rd and 4th, though if nokia and rim can keep their crap together perhaps they'll live to fight on.

Originally Posted by roehlstation

I'm finding their search engine starting to become pretty useless at this point...I just skip to page 4 anymore to get through all the paid search results.

Originally Posted by Asherian

I'm not promoting Google, I'm talking about the realities of the market. Android is hot right now, that's how it is.

Just because it's not rah-rah-Apple doesn't mean it's promoting Google. I don't care who "wins", I'm happy with competition. As I said, I regularly use both my iPhone 3GS and Nexus One. I didn't even buy the N1, I got it for free...I bought the iPhone. I use a PC at work and a MacBook Pro at home. I've no allegiances, I just don't care.

These companies don't do anything for me. I use what I like, period.

Edit: But Google does give out better swag at conferences. I get phones each time I go to Google conferences...Apple gives me CDs of trial software. And Apple does reject apps for stupid reasons, which doesn't endear them to my heart much these days. My company's app was rejected after a 3 week wait because we implemented a VOIP system in a feature so people could connect with businesses without paying long distance. They forced us to remove it. Our Android version has that feature.

Originally Posted by anonymouse

Seriously, you think your message on these forums hasn't been overwhelmingly pro Google? Maybe there's an issue of lack of self-awareness there. You seem to care very much that Apple doesn't win and that Google does. Maybe that's just the swag talking, which you seem very excited about, but, are you really that shallow that you judge a company by the free stuff they give you?

The bottom line is, a lot of us are disgusted by the lies and bullshit that come out of Google while they run around breaking the law (WiFi data collection, Google Books, etc. etc. etc.) and conducting surveillance on practically everyone on the planet that has a computer or smartphone. Google is Big Brother, and their success, if they are allowed to continue to do what they do comes at the expense of all of us, our privacy, and, in the end, our degree of freedom.

The ways in which Apple is controlling are trivially unimportant compared to the dangers posed by the giant and ever growing, ever widening and deepening, database of information that Google is collecting on everyone. Their disrespect for the law shows that they are not a company to be trusted, and they should definitely not be trusted to not abuse the information they collect. Their control over access to information is equally disturbing, especially given their rapacious greed and obvious desire to dominate, and they will certainly end up abusing this control if they have not already. Google does evil, intends evil, and is evil.

(And, let's not forget the danger of the government getting their hands on this data. Imagine, for a moment, that this database of information on practically every American were available to Joe McCarthy and/or the House Un-American Activities Committee in the 1950s. Think you've done nothing wrong? Think again. There's McCarthy on the Senate floor waving a piece of paper with your name on it, denouncing you as a communist because you were among the people found to have visited some left wing website. Think it can't happen in America? It already has, it can happen again.)

Maybe you just haven't thought these issues through, or think you don't care about them. Maybe you're so embedded in your geek life that all you can see is technology for technologies sake. Maybe you're just self-centered and can only focus on that app rejection from Apple and how it wounded your ego. I don't know which it is, I don't care which it is, but what I see is someone who can't see above the technological issues to what is really at stake here.

Google is a dangerous, destructive company. Most of what they produce is imitative crap that is successful only because it's free or rides on the aura of the company's success. They are a threat to privacy and liberty, which depend on each other for their existence. Google represents the very worst of what American free enterprise is.

Apple is a creative company. What they produce is the very best in almost every line of business they become involved in, and it succeeds because it is the best, and people recognize that, and by leading the way, and showing how good these things can be, they make everything from everybody better*. Apple represents the very best of what American free enterprise is supposed to be.

So, think about exactly what it is you are promoting the next time you decide to tell everyone how great Google and Android are. Think about the consequences of a world where Google beats down Apple, which in Google's eyes in the only path to success, to destroy what stands in their way. Think about what Google domination in the tech and other sectors really means. Think about your personal responsibility in contributing to that. This is a battle of Good vs Evil, and it's pretty clear which company is which.



* Android hasn't improved because of Google's commitment to excellence; remember what the first images of the Google phone looked like? Android has improved because Apple set the bar so high that everyone had to up their game to even stay in it. Anyone who thinks anything else is simply not being honest with themselves.

Originally Posted by Groovetube

it's understandable on an apple-centric forum for this kind of attack to occur, but seriously dude, if you think for one second a massive company like apple wouldn't leverage customer info to their benefit, you deluding yourself.

It's good to see healthy competition, and should one use and abuse customer trust too far, customers can vote with their dollars. Pure and simple.

Originally Posted by Groovetube

It's just not that simple at all.

no, we'll likely do what we've always done. Create content that has the ability to use multiple ways of delivery. I'm still doing it! That's the beauty of H.264. Something many people conveniently forget, that it allows 'choice'. There things flash video can do which is significant, which html5 -cannot-. Same for other things. html5 cannot despite the bleating of the know-it-alls who know what they read on some blog, do all what flash can. It never will.

I see no drop in demand, and neither are any of the agencies I know of either. As I said, things will change. What will be significant, is what adobe's success (or not) in delivering a good player.

Also, don't discount the fact that flash is always morphing. That AS language has become -aaaaawefully- close to javascript lately... and there's much movement on running flash content -natively without, a plugin... adobe makes nothing off their player, they make $$ on the ide...

Originally Posted by Groovetube

-I'm- hopelessly naive? You're shouting from the mountain tops the altruistic and heavenly nature of a massive corporation over another and -I'm- hopelessly naive?

ooooo K
LOL

Originally Posted by anonymouse

It both isn't and is that simple.

There might be things Flash can do that HTML5 cannot (and we aren't just talking video here) but there are also things that HTML5 can do that Flash cannot. In the end, that doesn't really matter. What does matter is that Flash is no longer the medium with which one can reach everyone, particularly certain demographics, with a consistent experience. If you want to do that, you must use HTML. Whether you see a drop in demand in your business immediately is irrelevant. The fact is that content providers are coming to the realization, one by one now, and in increasing numbers, that Flash is harmful to their business and have, one by one, and in numbers that will accelerate over time until it looks like a stampede, decided that they must go another direction. Sure it's possible to maintain multiple versions of a site, but that increases costs and isn't the best strategy over time. The best strategy is to go with the technology that gives you the greatest ability to reach people and invest your efforts there, and that technology is no longer Flash.

Whether you see a drop in demand in your business immediately is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by anonymouse

If that's all you can understand from what I wrote, then I can only say that you are either a hopelessly ignorant fool, or simply arguing for argument's sake.

Originally Posted by Groovetube

Irrelevant? Says you?

LOL.

Originally Posted by Groovetube

gotcha. Ignorant fool. Well like being called a kid looking for a ban hammer, I suppose that's the way to "win" around here it seems.

Originally Posted by anonymouse

Yes, because, in the overall scheme of things, your company is just a minor data point.

Originally Posted by anonymouse

Well, when you don't offer any intelligent commentary, there's not much to respond to.

It's pretty clear to me that you are at this point, simply arguing for argument's sake. You're annoyed that I'm proclaiming Flash is dead, so you're making snarky comments in response to other topics. Whether or not you are a fool, I leave to others to decide.

Originally Posted by Groovetube

and god bless apple for webkit.

Perhaps microsoft would do well to finally put a fork in IE's ass and take on webkit themselves.

Originally Posted by os2baba

I thought you use Bing for Search. You don't have to use GMail, Google Maps, Picasa, Google Voice, Google Navigation. So they only access the data that any crawler can access.

Originally Posted by anonymouse

No, I said you were either an ignorant fool or just arguing for argument's sake, then, later, that you were clearly doing the latter, and that I left it to others to decide on your mental state. This post just reinforces the opinion that you don't really have anything to say but just want to argue.

However, I would say that if anyone is not responding in a meaningful way here, it is certainly you. I've responded to every meaningful point that you've made. That you aren't happy with the responses doesn't make them less meaningful, or you less wrong in your estimate of Flash's lifespan.

Originally Posted by masternav

While on the face of it that would seem to make sense, it fails to take into account monetization of the platform - or the amount of profit generated. So for example the only reason why the carriers and hardware makers are in bed with Goggle is to sell contracts and handsets respectively. And Android makes it attractive to do so (except for HTC who decided to pay blood money to Microsoft to cover licensing issues for Android - expect similar deals for the other handset makers as well).

As Janis so soulfully sang, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose..." Perhaps devs need to go back and watch Pinnochio again, to be reminded that nothing is ever really free.

Microsoft is in datacenters world-wide, and on the majority of the world's desktops - and yet, Apple is the one that everyone looks to to innovate. Neither Microsoft nor Open Source was able to produce a viable, popular tablet. Or smartphone (unless of course someone like Google backed it with capital as they did with Android). Or media player. Apple did and does. And does so very profitably - which in turn allows them to move on to the next innovation.

When your local successful community leader comes to you to offer to buy your land for a nice price, you need to ask WHY? What does that successful person stand to GAIN from doing so. Apple's motives were never in question - they want to build a successful, consumer-oriented platform and ecosystem (a shopping mall if you will - complete with restaurants, play areas for the kids and entertainment areas). Along the way they made provision for the inclusion of the dev community in the role of building apps that potentially would make those devs also successful - but their motive was never in question - to make money. Google comes along, offers to buy Android, and drive it's implementation in the mobile space, under the rubric of "open, free and awesome". Demurring all the while, "no, no we don't need to be paid licensing fees - we just want to build a nice park here where everyone can come and play. Ignore the fact that we own all the adjoining property, where all those cameras are - pointing at the park."

Originally Posted by Asherian

Android's worldwide marketshare today is exactly what iPhone's worldwide marketshare was one year ago. And the trend has not abated, it's still growing far faster than iPhone. And it should be really easy to see why. There's tons of phones, there's tons of carriers.

Originally Posted by Groovetube

it's understandable on an apple-centric forum for this kind of attack to occur, but seriously dude, if you think for one second a massive company like apple wouldn't leverage customer info to their benefit, you deluding yourself.

It's good to see healthy competition, and should one use and abuse customer trust too far, customers can vote with their dollars. Pure and simple.

Originally Posted by mobility

To their benefit? Their benefit is the money you paid them. That's it. Did you read about the iAd rules that the advertisers are complaining about? Do you know what the ad guys don't like? That there isn't segmentation of users (i.e. no real data on user information like age, sex, location more granular than a city, etc. etc.). They ad guys are complaining that the iAd service will fail because, wait for it...Apple DOESN'T want your data distributed. WHY? Because it makes money not through raping your privacy, but by selling you the product that others try to give away for free.

Also a word of advice, the comment that you replied to was actually filled with well put together thoughts that you should reply to, well, thoughtfully by making good points in your favor.

Originally Posted by DESuserIGN

Take a look:
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1937
(Hint: more than that just in Europe)

Originally Posted by God of Biscuits

DIdn't Google just bless Flash as part of the official Open Web?

I'll agree with you, though, Chrome has open technology in it: The render engine of their Chrome Browser is WebKit.

Y'know. From Apple?

Originally Posted by anonymouse

Seriously, you think your message on these forums hasn't been overwhelmingly pro Google?

Originally Posted by Asherian

I'm sorry dude, but this entire post was absolutely ridiculous. You've got fanboy blinders on, there's nothing left to be said.

You think I'm pimping Google because I'm observing that Android is hot and has momentum right now. You're obviously just insecure with your allegiance to Apple.

As I've said, I've no allegiances. Google doesn't pay me, Apple doesn't pay me. I don't pay Google anything (all my Android phones I've gotten for free through my job, I don't even see AdWords since I use CustomizeGoogle + Adblock), but I buy lots of Apple products (iPhones, MacBooks Pros, etc).

I simply don't care who "wins". I like competition. My job, though, lies with mobile app development. It requires me to be on top of it and support the whole market. As a result, I've got extensive experience in both using and developing for all of the major mobile platforms.

Your insecurity is a bit ridiculous. Apple is just a company like Google, trying to make big bucks. Stop attacking people who don't pimp your "chosen company" blindly. It's pathetic.

Originally Posted by KindredMac

If you want to use an iPhone or iPad you NEED to use iTunes... You NEED an iTunes account. That right there is restricting.

Originally Posted by Zc456

Despite the irony, I think Google is referring to Apple's massive control over the App Store. Considering this is during the Android segment of the keynote. Remember they still use Apple's products in their demos. On another note, I am impressed with the Android 2.2.

Originally Posted by AsianBob

How does that detract from Android's success?

Originally Posted by maciekskontakt

Are you comparing on US market or global?

You know US market is a small yard comparing to global.

This is the same as saying that AT&T is second or first and T-Mobile is small.

Originally Posted by Superbass

Shouldn't the real story be that Froyo marks the first time Android has surpassed iPhone OS?

Up until now, Android has been playing catchup, but with Froyo's wireless synching, mobile hotspot, flash 10.1 and music streaming without needing to sync, it's actually leapfrogged iPhone.

Rather than focus on some stupid comment about who's the most evil corporation, why not focus on the actual product release?