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Google compares Apple to 'Big Brother' from iconic 1984 ad - Page 2

post #41 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchfulOne View Post

Having actually read the book myself, I find Google fits the Big Brother criteria better than Apple does.

The funny thing is the other news today - Facebook was found to be selling private data to Google and others.

Google has the 1984 reference correct in one way. With their doubleplusgood doublespeak, they're doing their best to deflect well-deserved criticism.
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post #42 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherian View Post

So anyone can put OS X on their computers or sell a phone with iPhone OS?

So I can sync my iPhone trivially with other media software?

So anyone can set up a Google Search service on their own servers? Gosh, I hadn't realized Google had open sourced all their proprietary code.
post #43 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

So anyone can set up a Google Search service on their own servers? Gosh, I hadn't realized Google had open sourced all their proprietary code.

The source code isn't open for Google search, but yes, you can set up your own Google Search service.

http://www.google.com/enterprise/search/mini.html
http://www.googlestore.com/appliance...ct.asp?catid=3
post #44 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherian View Post

Android's worldwide marketshare today is exactly what iPhone's worldwide marketshare was one year ago. And the trend has not abated, it's still growing far faster than iPhone. And it should be really easy to see why. There's tons of phones, there's tons of carriers.

How many more carriers is Android on than iPhone, worldwide?
post #45 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

How many more carriers is Android on than iPhone, worldwide?

No idea, but it'll be a greater number.

Android is on 59 carriers. How many is iPhone on?
post #46 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

How many more carriers is Android on than iPhone, worldwide?

I'm actually curious on this point. How many carriers have the iPhone?
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post #47 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherian View Post

Are you serious?

Android is open source and free to license (sans Google branding). I can make a toaster oven and run Android on it fully legally.

There's nothing open about it? Really? It's even under the Apache license, not GPL -- vendors can write their own extensions to it without forcing them to open the source for that.

There's no app review process to arbitrarily reject apps either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Handset_Alliance

For all practical purposes, there is, and will be, only one Android vendor of any significance: Google. So, although they've paid all the right lip service to "open source", it is effectively just as closed as any other proprietary system.
post #48 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

For all practical purposes, their is, and will be, only one Android vendor of any significance: Google. So, although they've paid all the right lip service to "open source", it is effectively just as closed as any other proprietary system.

This comment demonstrates a fundamental ignorance about Android. Use Android on the Nexus One and compare it to a Motorola or HTC-branded phone or a Samsung phone or a Sony phone. All have extensive modifications to Android.

It's open source under the Apache license. Virtually every manufacturer has changed something about the code to customize it for their phones. There's no possible way you could say it's "effectively just as closed" as "other" proprietary systems.

I'm going away now, I can't debate with people that don't live in reality.
post #49 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherian View Post

How could anyone say this with a straight face?

Android's marketshare is up over 800% year over year, iPhone up 112%. Extrapolate.

Android is already outselling iPhones in the US and is on pace to pass worldwide this year. Android is on a meteoric growth curve right now, growing far faster than iPhone is. And there's no reason to believe that won't continue with how many carriers, how many hardware makers they support. They're activating 100,000 Androids every day right now, and 12,000 apps were added to the Android Market in the past month alone. It's catching up very, very fast.

It really is Mac vs PC from the 80s all over again. That's not to say PC is better than Mac, but far more people will use PCs than Mac. Apple simply can't monopolize the entire market with their couple iPhone models.

800% of 1 is 8.

112% of 100 is 112.

There you go.....
post #50 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherian View Post

How could anyone say this with a straight face?

Android's marketshare is up over 800% year over year, iPhone up 112%. Extrapolate.

Android is already outselling iPhones in the US and is on pace to pass worldwide this year. Android is on a meteoric growth curve right now, growing far faster than iPhone is. And there's no reason to believe that won't continue with how many carriers, how many hardware makers they support. They're activating 100,000 Androids every day right now, and 12,000 apps were added to the Android Market in the past month alone. It's catching up very, very fast.

It really is Mac vs PC from the 80s all over again. That's not to say PC is better than Mac, but far more people will use PCs than Mac. Apple simply can't monopolize the entire market with their couple iPhone models.


Well, I have no idea if Google feels scared of Apple or not..don't really care. And probably no one else outside of Google really knows. I realize you were just replying to another post, so your remarks were warranted, but in response to you saying that Apple cannot monopolize the the entire market, I say...who the hell cares?

I know some people can only judge success based on marketshare, but personally I could care less. I think Apple innovates more when they are the underdog. Macintosh, iPod and iPhone all came out of necessity, vision, and innovation. I don't want Apple to have 90% marketshare, as I think they will get complacent. Maybe I would care if I owned any stock, but I don't. I liked it better when everyone and their dog weren't on the Apple bandwagon.

When I got my original iPhone (August 2007), I only knew two other friends who had them. And these were Mac loyalists as well. No one else had them in my extended circle. Now, almost everyone I know has one. I think Apple's growth is slowing because they are approaching a saturation point, like they did with the iPod. So comparing Apple to Google in relation to growth isn't exactly accurate. However, I wish Apple still had a niche following. I don't need them to dominate, or monopolize, or take over the world. And I am tired of seeing all these 'Jonas Brother' kids with macs and iPhones. They don't even fully know why they are on the Apple bandwagon, and in my opinion, that should be required to ride the ride. Having Apple tech should not be based on seeing their favorite Disney or Nickelodeon stars with them. How annoying!
post #51 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

800% of 1 is 8.

112% of 100 is 112.

There you go.....

The numbers are far closer than you'll want to admit. Android is already selling more in the US, and it's 15% vs 10% worldwide. But Android's growth rate, even at 10% (which is what Apple was at last year), will push it past iPhone within the year.
post #52 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherian View Post


I'm going away now, .......

Bye..
post #53 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherian View Post

The source code isn't open for Google search, but yes, you can set up your own Google Search service.

http://www.google.com/enterprise/search/mini.html
http://www.googlestore.com/appliance...ct.asp?catid=3

No, you really can't, you can set up Google's Google Search service. Please, Google only tosses a few bones to open source now and then, says all the right things, but is as closed as closed gets when it really matters.
post #54 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherian View Post

The numbers are far closer than you'll want to admit. Android is already selling more in the US, and it's 15% vs 10% worldwide. But Android's growth rate, even at 10% (which is what Apple was at last year), will push it past iPhone within the year.

I thought you were going away now!?
post #55 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherian View Post

No idea, but it'll be a greater number.

Android is on 59 carriers. How many is iPhone on?

I don't know, but then you were the one who made the claim.
post #56 of 431
I saw the first to parts of the Keynote, then the YouTube suggestions wouldn't link me to the 3 part

Just wondering: why do they need to bash Apple that much? I mean seriously, if they had any serious merits, they wouldn't need to make fun of Apple at least 4 times in twenty minutes with completely distorted facts.

I hate when people have to bash others just to make themselves look better!
BTW, before any one comes with argument: I hate when Apple does this too!

And why on earth do they want the fastest JavaScript browser on a mobile device? Sure it's cool for spec oriented geeks, but in real life you want stuff that is easy to use, like the tap-to-zoom features. I just saw it on an Android-iPhone comparison the other day: the Android browser zoomed to much and half of the text was missing. My bet is they would be a lot more user friendly if they fixed things like that before focusing on the optimisation.
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post #57 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I thought you were going away now!?

I think he was just being a drama queen.
post #58 of 431
Hypocritical BS from Google, a company poised to dominate if there ever was one. Who the hell do they think they're kidding? For Big Brother behavior look no further than Brin's recent admission concerning their wi-fi spying for Google Street View.

Let's see: Android defines "openness" on mobile phones? Really? As long as openness entails leaving users at the mercy of the carriers to upgrade Android to the next version. Yeah, good luck with trying to create a consistent, across-the-board platform.
post #59 of 431
Lucky for me, I don't need to be a shill or fanboy for any particular tech company. The market competition is a good thing for us consumers and while I presently use the iPhone, I'll be more than happy to switch to an Android based platform if and when it delivers a better "internet in your pocket" experience to include such things as the same rendering of websites on the device as I would get on a desktop or laptop.

So far though, I have yet to see that and commercials that dog Apple as Orwellian don't cut it, especially when Google and Orwell's 1984 are virtual synonyms. Google has the bulk of my e-mail, my web, news, & group searches, RSS feeds, Adwords, Analytics, YouTube vids, and my credit card. I'm so plugged into Google, when it' goes down, I'm pretty much dead in the water except for screaming on Twitter.
post #60 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation View Post

I'm finding their search engine starting to become pretty useless at this point...I just skip to page 4 anymore to get through all the paid search results.


I've noticed that too.

Additionally, the web tab displays a lot of news stories. If/when I want news, I search Google News. If/when I want background, I search the web. I dislike having to wade through the news stories again.
post #61 of 431
How smart is it by Google to upfront bash Apple like this? This is just driving Apple away and what incentives has Apple to play nice with anything Google does after this?

In a very narrow-minded group of Google-supporters this is funny, smart and creative. But seriously - it only shows that Google management is about to loose it. They have a positive curve and it will go on for a while, but they will loose touch. Big headed, self-centered and right out blunt.

Keep shares one year and then sell, because later on Google's true face will be exposed when their image starts to wear down. And shares will dive hard!
post #62 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banalltv View Post

Second that.

Are not most of Apple's customers born after 1984?

Seriously this is a lot of marketing to get some developers onboard and excited. Some people need an enemy to get motivated.

I was never impressed with that Ridley Scott commercial, it has become some sort of Citizen Cane for the nerd world.

Apple has shaken things up and broken the hold Microsoft had on the tech world for nearly 15 years. There were a lot less complaints about Microsoft with it's "real and abusive" monopoly than Apple being the worlds 7th largest phone company.
post #63 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by KindredMac View Post

It all started with the iPod though, not as recently as the iPhone as Google is saying.

If you want to use an iPhone or iPad you NEED to use iTunes... You NEED an iTunes account. That right there is restricting. And what is Apple's reasoning behind this? "It just works better that way" is the usual response.



In The Beginning, you also needed a Mac.

The iPod never really took off until a Windows version of iTunes became available.
post #64 of 431
I like both companies pretty well and use their products pretty religously.
However I see Google more draconion than Apple.
In their respective markets, Google has more of a monoply than Apple.
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post #65 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

I was about to mention that very same thing, all this Android talk is making windows technology all the more irrelevant. I like that

"All the more"?

How is Windows currently irrelevant?
post #66 of 431
Apple should get in the search business and go after google. Gloves off.
post #67 of 431
Uh, yeah...

Google is a government intelligence front. End of story. Apple may be tied into big government interests as well, but there's little to no evidence to support that.

Google however, it has already come out they work hand in hand with the NSA and are likely just a CIA front. Why would anyone even doubt that to begin with? Smart people wouldn't
post #68 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

So I guess this is why Google is trying to get into every facet of our lives.

Yes. You are correct. This is why.

1984? You ain't seen nothing.
post #69 of 431
Oh good grief.
post #70 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

"All the more"?

How is Windows currently irrelevant?

Android could take it's place as an actual OS for computers (maybe the simplest ones I guess)
post #71 of 431
First, I don't think Google is correct. Apple has a closed system, but there are choices out there if one doesn't like their system. Many people DO like it though, which explains Apple's success.

The Apple 1984 ad was describing a different phenomenon. The IBM PC was dominant. It was bleak, boring, and supported by what would become a borderline illegal software monopoly. Apple's Mac was different...creative, independent and geared towards the end user.

And the end-user is what Apple is ALL about today. People want integration and ease of use...coupled with fantastic design. If they didn't, they'd chose another collection of impressive hardware specs coupled with a mediocre (or even bad) UI with a brand name slapped on it.

Finally, I think that Google may be making a very large mistake taking on Apple publicly. Google has become a behemoth. It's fatal flaw may end up being hubris. They want to dominate everything it seems, not just the search and information organization business (organizing the world's info was their only goal for some time ). Apple, by contrast, picks and choses what areas it wants to get into. Google cannot dominate everything---at least not forever.

PS: And yes, with Google's recent "problems"--I can't help but laughing at their comments.
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post #72 of 431
The Great Android Fragmentation continues...
post #73 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

800% of 1 is 8.

112% of 100 is 112.

There you go.....

I was told in college there's actually no such thing as more than 100% when correctly talking about percentages

For instance, instead of saying 1 to 8 is a rise of 800%, you just say 8 times. If that 1 drops to .5, you can say 50%. Companies use things like 800% as a way to wow people. It just sounds better.
post #74 of 431
I can appreciate hyperbole in self-promotion as much as the next guy. But the fact is that in 1984 there was Microsoft and virtually nobody else. Apple was barely on the radar in terms of platform use. Today, it is RIM who dominates a smartphone market that has many significant players. Phone buyers have many choices. There is simply no grounds for Google's invoking the 1984 ad as comparison to the situation in the smartphone market today. Nice try, Eric.

**Whoops, just noticed that SDW2001 above said the same thing**
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post #75 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherian View Post

The numbers are far closer than you'll want to admit. Android is already selling more in the US, and it's 15% vs 10% worldwide.

That is not at all clear. Both of those figures are based on a single self-selecting survey.

SALES figures put Apple's worldwide business well ahead of Android. And even that comparison is flawed. Why would you compare ALL Android devices to just one iPhone OS device from Apple?

Either compare all Android devices to all iPhone OS devices (including iPod Touch and iPad) or compare any one Android phone to the Apple iPhone.

I'm not interested in a comparison of whether all Korean cars put together outsold the Camry.
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post #76 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherian View Post

The numbers are far closer than you'll want to admit. Android is already selling more in the US, and it's 15% vs 10% worldwide. But Android's growth rate, even at 10% (which is what Apple was at last year), will push it past iPhone within the year.

June 7th would like a word with you. Given the sales figures of the marginally upgraded 3GS at launch, I can only image what the sales of a significantly upgraded iPhone will be like. Either way, Apples goal is not to make the most devices, but to make the best devices.
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post #77 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

It's easy to be on a "meteoric growth curve" when you are growing from nothing, but, the more you grow, the more difficult it is to maintain that curve, so it's not surprising to see, and perhaps not meaningful to point this out, in relation to iPhone growth.

Don't these curves follow several traditional trajectories?

I've seen a lot of curves for new products that are very flat near the left, as the early adopters buy them, and then get steeper and steeper as they enter an exponential growth portion of the curve, but then tend to flatten out again as they become mature.

I think that Android is in the exponential growth phase, while iPhone OS has become a more mature product. If/when Apple goes to more US carriers, I would expect the curve to get much steeper, very quickly, given that to a lot of consumers, it would represent a new product.

But none of this can really be used to predict the level at which the curve will flatten out, or whether it will remain flat, given product changes. Nobody knows with any certainty or in any detail what the future market share will be for any of these technologies.

If I were to guess, I think that Android will surpass iPhone OS in every area - phones, tablets, netbooks, STBs, automobile/emergency OSs, misc. handheld/palmtop devices - but I have no reliable crystal balls.
post #78 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfrmac View Post

And of what use are patients?

To a doctor, they are very useful... Without them he has now business.
post #79 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherian View Post

Android's worldwide marketshare today is exactly what iPhone's worldwide marketshare was one year ago. And the trend has not abated, it's still growing far faster than iPhone. And it should be really easy to see why. There's tons of phones, there's tons of carriers.


There is also tons of software, much of it unavailable on the iPhone.
post #80 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbyrn View Post

Lucky for me, I don't need to be a shill or fanboy for any particular tech company. The market competition is a good thing for us consumers and while I presently use the iPhone, I'll be more than happy to switch to an Android based platform if and when it delivers a better "internet in your pocket" experience to include such things as the same rendering of websites on the device as I would get on a desktop or laptop.

So far though, I have yet to see that and commercials that dog Apple as Orwellian don't cut it, especially when Google and Orwell's 1984 are virtual synonyms. Google has the bulk of my e-mail, my web, news, & group searches, RSS feeds, Adwords, Analytics, YouTube vids, and my credit card. I'm so plugged into Google, when it' goes down, I'm pretty much dead in the water except for screaming on Twitter.

+1 Well said.
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