or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Mosque planned for ground zero.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Mosque planned for ground zero. - Page 5

Poll Results: Are you in favor of a new mosque near ground zero?

 
  • 54% (20)
    Yes.
  • 45% (17)
    No.
37 Total Votes  
post #161 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

I watched this and also the piece that ran after this. If you didn't catch it it is @

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/...que.debate.cnn

It brings the issue of CAN they or do they have THE RIGHT to build the Park 51, Cordoba Project to an end and focuses on whether they SHOULD. There is no question that they have the right to build the center at the location, but there have been too many arguments about this part, ignoring whether is should be built. Please watch and discuss the issue on this perspective.

Should they? No. But I also think that all religions should go the way of the dinosaurs. I would hope that all religions would voluntarily liquidate their holdings and raze any non-historic-landmark buildings (or at least convert them into homeless shelters or something while wiping out any religious insignia).

Should they NOT because people are hiding their racism and xenophobia behind the mask of sensitivity about 9/11 (while those same people voted against giving money to the HEROES who risked their lives trying to get to any survivors in the rubble)? No. Absolutely not. They SHOULD ignore these ethnocentric wackadoos and proceed with construction.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #162 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

F
Not true at all.

There is a search function on this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

what's the deal with Muslims and their endearment to Virgins? Are they so bad at the skill of love making they need virgins rather than skilled female partners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

F
I have my own thoughts here; since the Muslim is unclean and unshaven it may be they prefer untrained virgins to make a contrast upon themselves; a woman who has experience would laugh upon them methinks... Just a personal observation.

I was genuinely shocked you weren't banned from here for writing these things, which are disgusting.

You shouldn't pretend disinterest here. Just my personal observation, but you're a bit of a bigot.

Would they allow churches in Saudi Arabia?

Probably not.

So why do actually want to be like that?

You're prepared to throw away the very thing that makes America so special? You have the moral high ground. You want to throw it away? You could win friends for your Christian nation by showing forgiveness and tolerance and instead you say "We should be like Saudi Arabia!".

You've just handed the terrorists the most emphatic win. You're turning your back on your precious Constitution. You're turning your back on the tolerance and big-heartedness that made America such a unique experiment. You're giving in.

What Saudi Arabia does is irrelevant. You want to be like them? No. Then let them do what and stop pissing your pants over a cultural centre two blocks away from the Twin Towers.
post #163 of 447
Well said Mumbo. First, we're told we should be more like Communist China. Then we're told we should be more like Islamic Saudi Arabia. How about we just go back to our roots (shockingly the most conservative viewpoint we have) and be fucking tolerant and accepting? How about we remove god from the pledge, our money, and god bless America from our vernacular? You do realize that "god bless America" is no different than "Allahu Akbar" written on the flags of certain countries which you right wingers want to (and already did) invade.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #164 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

According to recent reports, St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, near the former World Trade Center and destroyed on 09/11/01, is not to be rebuilt according to Port Authority of New York! This is despite the wishes of the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church and its congregation!

Now that interests me, why would that be? Is it because the US thinks that the greek orthodox church might stir some problems, or is it because NewYork plans to rebuild the area of ground zero in a different manner so that there is no place for the church anymore?
Or is it because the greek church don't want to bring up the money to build the church and expect the city/state to pay for it?


Nightcrawler
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
Reply
I disagree, and could prove you're wrong; care to offer any proof that you're not wrong?
Reply
post #165 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

You shouldn't pretend disinterest here.

Hence my detailed post of last, most of which you failed to address. There are over 100 Islamic mosques in the NY city area, none of them draw any objection. Only this one, so close to the site of jihad terror of 09/11/01, is causing objection. Why do you think that is? Do the relatives of the 3,000 dead from jihad have any say whatsoever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Just my personal observation, but you're a bit of a bigot.

Perhaps but the majority of opinion today supports my view on this issue and not yours. Besides, since liberals wrongly call anyone disagreeing with them, on most any issue, bigots, it has become sort of a badge of honor today. Sadly, our view is castigated with such epithets simply because we choose not to accept the politically correct view. Luckily however, those of our opinion are in the majority, on this issue.

EARLIER IN JULY =>
20% Favor Mosque Near Ground Zero, 54% Oppose
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...zero_54_oppose

TODAY - Tuesday, August 24, 2010 =>
Rasmussen Reports: 62% Oppose Ground Zero Mosque/Only 25% Support
http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.co...ound-zero.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Would they allow churches in Saudi Arabia?

It's a valid question. We value our freedoms here in this nation and give every religion free reign on the right of religious expression; it is what characterizes democracy. Thus drawing a distinction between our religious freedom and the persecution of religion in the world of Islam, for instance in Saudi Arabia, is valid. That said, we welcome their 100 mosques in the NY city area. However, in one area that forms the immediate zone where 3,000 died as a result of fanatic jihad, we ask for their tolerance. This is not a discriminatory request but one of tolerance that the Park51 developers choose to ignore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

You're prepared to throw away the very thing that makes America so special?

There are over a 100 mosques in NYC. How is asking for a little tolerance next to the 09/11/01 site "throwing away" anyting? Rather than hurling the "bigot" condemnation how about addressing the topic here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

You have the moral high ground. You want to throw it away?

If you choose not to listen to me, as is your want, listen to the firefighters, downtown city citizens, rescue personnel, survivors and family of 09.11.01 victims, and many others against this mosque plan. Listen to their complaints. Polls on this issue show the majority against the Park51 plan. Why do you think that is? Shouldn't their view be heard?
post #166 of 447
You do realize that it was this Imam that was sent by GW Bush as an ambassador of peace to spread his version of Islam to hopefully temper the more extremist views abroad. You do realize that this Imam's sect of Islam was the target of terror attacks by Al Qaeda.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #167 of 447
WHY DO YOU WANT THE TERRORISTS TO WIN?

Quote:
Experts worry the controversy surrounding an Islamic center near ground zero in Lower Manhattan is playing right into the hands of radical extremists.

The supercharged debate over the proposed center has attracted the attention of a quiet, underground audience — young Muslims who drift in and out of jihadi chat rooms and frequent radical Islamic sites on the Web. It has become the No. 1 topic of discussion in recent days and proof positive, according to some of the posted messages, that America is indeed at war with Islam.

"This, unfortunately, is playing right into their hands," said Evan F. Kohlmann, who tracks these kinds of websites and chat rooms for Flashpoint Global partners, a New York-based security firm. "Extremists are encouraging all this, with glee.

"It is their sense that by doing this that Americans are going to alienate American Muslims to the point where even relatively moderate Muslims are going to be pushed into joining extremist movements like al-Qaida. They couldn't be happier."

"USA, USA, USA," one group began. "No clubhouse for terrorists," taunted one sign. "When did it become OK to be a bigot and a racist again?" shouted another. The police did their best to keep the two sides on opposite sides of the street.

While that's how the debate has played out publicly for weeks -– pundits and politicians on the news shows and protesters on the sidewalks — out in the blogosphere, in password-protected radical web forums, there has been an altogether different view.

All this controversy and vitriol are not only encouraged; they're welcomed. Extremists and radical clerics posted a stream of "I told you so" messages: After years of telling followers that Islam was under attack by the West, the harsh reaction to a simple community center seemed to prove it.

That message, transmitted in a multitude of chat rooms and websites, has law enforcement worried. There have been a record number of homegrown terrorist plots in this country since late last year, and the conventional wisdom has been that the long wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have moved some young Muslims — many of whom came of age watching U.S. forces fighting in two wars on television — to join the fight.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=129387963
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
post #168 of 447
A must see. Is Fox News Evil or Stupid?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_692234.html

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #169 of 447
Ron Paul is right. Again.

Demagoguing the Mosque and Islam

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #170 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Ron Paul is right. Again.

Demagoguing the Mosque and Islam

Too bad he has no clue on the economy and how his ideas would affect the poor (or he has a clue and doesn't care), or I'd be a fan.

Haha, no, jazzy, we don't need to get into that again...
post #171 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post

Or is it because the greek church don't want to bring up the money to build the church and expect the city/state to pay for it?

Bingo. That land is a goldmine.
post #172 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Too bad he has no clue on the economy and how his ideas would affect the poor (or he has a clue and doesn't care), or I'd be a fan.

Haha, no, jazzy, we don't need to get into that again...

It's all good. At least we can agree on some things.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #173 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Too bad he has no clue on the economy...

Now that's rich.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #174 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Perhaps but the majority of opinion today supports my view on this issue and not yours. Besides, since liberals wrongly call anyone disagreeing with them, on most any issue, bigots, it has become sort of a badge of honor today. Sadly, our view is castigated with such epithets simply because we choose not to accept the politically correct view. Luckily however, those of our opinion are in the majority, on this issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David
what's the deal with Muslims and their endearment to Virgins? Are they so bad at the skill of love making they need virgins rather than skilled female partners?

Originally Posted by Camp David
F
I have my own thoughts here; since the Muslim is unclean and unshaven it may be they prefer untrained virgins to make a contrast upon themselves; a woman who has experience would laugh upon them methinks... Just a personal observation.

Last edited by Camp David; Yesterday at 05:42 PM..


I was genuinely shocked you weren't banned from here for writing these things, which are disgusting.

In your case it appears that you are a bigot in true terms by anyone's standards--liberal, conservative or extremist. Fortunately you edited your comments, however you should have done so before you posted it.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
post #175 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Now that's rich.

No, it's the selective quoting out of context that's rich.
post #176 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

No, it's the selective quoting out of context that's rich.

How so? How does the additional context change anything here? Here's exactly what you said about Ron Paul (which what I clipped underlined):

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton

Too bad he has no clue on the economy and how his ideas would affect the poor (or he has a clue and doesn't care), or I'd be a fan.

I was simply commenting on one claim you made (i.e., that "he has no clue on the economy") which is rich coming from you! The rest of your statement is merely a statement conditional on your first presupposition.

What we could do is rephrase what you've said:

Quote:
Too bad, from my narrow and biased viewpoint, limited perspective and superficial understanding of economics, he has no clue on the economy and how I think his ideas would affect the poor (or he has a clue and doesn't care), or I'd be a fan.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #177 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

There is no Muslim-light. One who is a devout Muslim must convert or kill the infidel. Conversion by the sword is one of the pillars of Islam. A true Muslim's only allegiance can be to Islam. If they haven't carried out, supported or sat by while terror acts are being discussed, planned or carried out, they are not true Muslims.

There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, they can't all be terrorists. If you want to blame all Muslims for 9/11, then are you willing to take personal responsibility for all the crappy stuff done by the world's 2.1 billion Christians?
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #178 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

How so? How does the additional context change anything here? Here's exactly what you said about Ron Paul (which what I clipped underlined):



I was simply commenting on one claim you made (i.e., that "he has no clue on the economy") which is rich coming from you! The rest of your statement is merely a statement conditional on your first presupposition.

What we could do is rephrase what you've said:

This: "Too bad he has no clue on the economy and how his ideas would affect the poor."
(The bolded statement is a single compound object of the sentence.)
Does not have the same meaning as this: "Too bad he has no clue on the economy."

I should have made it clearer for the comprehension challenged.

Let me do that now:

Too bad he has no clue on how his ideas regarding the economy would affect the poor (or he does and he doesn't care).

Better?
post #179 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

which is rich coming from you!:

And there you go with the patronizing again.

You can make that statement and I can make the statement that you must have been home-schooled and steered clear of any deep-thinking critical contact with ideas counter to the ones you were taught or chose to study. You're about as objective with regard to socialist economics as a North Korean is with regard to the United States of America. In other words, someone has brainwashed you and brainwashed you good. And I'm starting to think you and Jazzguru are brothers separated at birth (though he's a little bit more polite).
post #180 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

This: "Too bad he has no clue on the economy and how his ideas would affect the poor."
(The bolded statement is a single compound object of the sentence.)
Does not have the same meaning as this: "Too bad he has no clue on the economy."

I should have made it clearer for the comprehension challenged.

Let me do that now:

Too bad he has no clue on how his ideas regarding the economy would affect the poor (or he does and he doesn't care).

Better?

Much better actually. Good job.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #181 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You can make that statement and I can make the statement that you must have been home-schooled and steered clear of any deep-thinking critical contact with ideas counter to the ones you were taught or chose to study.

You could (and did) make such a statement. However you'd be (and were) wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

In other words, someone has brainwashed you and brainwashed you good.

Thanks for your opinion.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #182 of 447
I think Ron Paul has a great understanding of the economy and how his policies would affect the poor.

Let the Housing Market Normalize!

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #183 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I think Ron Paul has a great understanding of the economy and how his policies would affect the poor.

Let the Housing Market Normalize!

I suspect that Ron Paul has a great deal more understanding, wisdom and concern than his critics assume...and probably more than his critics have themselves. But hey, he's a nutty, doddering old, extremist and fool.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #184 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

IT'S NOT A MOSQUE..?

Mumbo:

I researched this a bit... it took a day or two... While Park51's website itself claims the "final size and location of the mosque have yet to be determined," Sharif El-Gamal, head of Soho Properties, Inc., and developer, of the “Ground Zero mosque,” advertises the project on a Muslim website updated as recently as June 5, 2010, in expansive terms different from those the GZM team has lately addressed to the broader public.

See The House (Musallah) listing here: http://islamicfinder.org/getitWorld....5&lang=english

Al-Gamal’s group declares, “We are trying to establish a full fledged Islamic Center in the lower Manhattan, only 2 blocks from World Trade Center, New York City, NY... and can accommodate 1,000 people to pray in Jamat [i.e. collectively] at one time.

Let's repeat that last quote one more time: "can accomodate 1,000 people to pray"

So by their own words, not only is this site advertised and billed as a Mosque by developer (Park51) they are planning on hosting 1,000 Mosque prayer attendees, which makes it a Mosque in any definition...

Care to revise and amend your remarks?
post #185 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, they can't all be terrorists. If you want to blame all Muslims for 9/11, then are you willing to take personal responsibility for all the crappy stuff done by the world's 2.1 billion Christians?

Hatred, or mistrust of the Arab and the Muslim has been subtly taught to Americans *via the corporate media* since the end of WWII. Islamophobia,in various degrees has become institutionalized throughout most of middle America as a result, and 9/11 cemented that viewpoint.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #186 of 447
Apologies if this was already posted earlier:

The 'Hallowed Ground' of the WTC?

Quote:
Look at the photos. This neighborhood is not hallowed. The people who live and work here are not obsessed with 9/11. The blocks around Ground Zero are like every other hard-working neighborhood in New York, where Muslims are just another thread of the city fabric.

At this point the only argument against this project is fear, specifically fear of Muslims, and thats a bigoted, cowardly and completely indefensible position.
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
Reply
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
Reply
post #187 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Hatred, or mistrust of the Arab and the Muslim has been subtly taught to Americans *via the corporate media* since the end of WWII. Islamophobia,in various degrees has become institutionalized throughout most of middle America as a result, and 9/11 cemented that viewpoint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

Apologies if this was already posted earlier:

The 'Hallowed Ground' of the WTC?

Quote:
Look at the photos. This neighborhood is not hallowed. The people who live and work here are not obsessed with 9/11. The blocks around Ground Zero are like every other hard-working neighborhood in New York, where Muslims are just another thread of the city fabric.

At this point the only argument against this project is fear, specifically fear of Muslims, and thats a bigoted, cowardly and completely indefensible position.

It is unfortunate that the opposition to the Park 51 Islamic Center and Mosque is not the only case of opposition. It appears that the US does have a problem of Islamophobia.

MOSQUE EXCLUSION ZONE
http://www.bullfax.com/?q=node-newt-...xclusion-zone-

Opposition other Mosques being built

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=129324342

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religio...ues04_ST_N.htm

http://www.wkrn.com/global/story.asp?s=12730008

http://www.dnj.com/article/20100809/...ace-opposition
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
post #188 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

"At this point the only argument against this project is fear, specifically fear of Muslims, and thats a bigoted, cowardly and completely indefensible position."

I don't think it's fear. Hatred, yes. But it's more a case of anger and vindictiveness than fear. "You people want to build a mosque near ground zero? FUCK YOU!"
post #189 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I don't think it's fear. Hatred, yes. But it's more a case of anger and vindictiveness than fear. "You people want to build a mosque near ground zero? FUCK YOU!"

"You people" ?

Somehow that doesn't sound very tolerant.If the idea of the mosque is to improve relations it is clearly not working. So what is the real point behind the mosque? Simply to irritate the survivors of 09/11/01?

"You people" ?

The tolerance missing here is on behalf of those that simply want to irritate the survivors of 09/11/01 despite the fact that they could construct the facility anywhere else; away from ground zero, and foster greater acceptance of Islam. But that is not what they want.
post #190 of 447
You know, David's on my ignore, but I clicked his post just to see how he replied to my point.

WHOOSH!

I honestly think his IQ must be in the double digits if he didn't see I was being sarcastic with the "you people" remark, and that the quote I made is not at all something I would say myself.

But that's the point. The people who oppose the community center are lumping all muslims into their hate along with those extreme few who were responsible for 9/11, hence the "you people".

And the survivors of 9/11 are not the ones who are irritated by the idea of this center. It's only the haters who are irritated. And "why not build it somewhere else?" Why should they? It's their property. It's in an area where there is no Muslim Center. It is also in an area that may be visited by people who are interested in the political implications of 9/11, hence those that would benefit most from a little education and tolerance on the matter.
post #191 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I don't think it's fear. Hatred, yes. But it's more a case of anger and vindictiveness than fear. "You people want to build a mosque near ground zero? FUCK YOU!"

More to the point:


Why so many Americans are hostile toward Islam

Quote:
....pollsters, historians and other experts say that the nation's collective instincts toward Islam have been shaped over decades by a patchwork of factors. These include demographic trends, psychology, terrorism events, U.S. foreign policy, domestic politics, media coverage and the Internet.

A Gallup survey last year found that Americans who don't personally know any Muslims were twice as likely to admit to "a great deal" of anti-Muslim prejudice. Republicans and those without college educations tend to be less favorable toward Islam.

Anti-Muslim feelings aren't likely to decline substantially until American attitudes improve toward the religion itself, said Dalia Mogahed, the executive director of the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies.
Muslims are the most negatively viewed faith community in the country, Gallup found. However, Pew polling found Americans also think that Muslims face the most discrimination of any U.S. religious group.

http://www.tampabay.com/incoming/why...-islam/1118267
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
post #192 of 447
If Muslims can't have a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero, Catholics can't have churches within two blocks of schools, playgrounds, and daycare centers. Christians can't have churches within two blocks of hospitals that perform abortions. The right wing can't purchase fertilizer.

If it's good for the goose...

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #193 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

If Muslims can't have a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero, Catholics can't have churches within two blocks of schools, playgrounds, and daycare centers. Christians can't have churches within two blocks of hospitals that perform abortions. The right wing can't purchase fertilizer.

If it's good for the goose...

Yeah. That's the way it all unravels isn't it. It's a ripe field for hypocrisy when you start down the road of forcing people to not do stuff you don't think they should not do or forcing them to do stuff you think they should do. Things start to get messy, don't they? Maybe we could try freedom instead.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #194 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yeah. Maybe we could try freedom instead.

Then let Park 51 Islamic Cultural Center and Mosque be built.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
post #195 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Then let Park 51 Islamic Cultural Center and Mosque be built.

Hey, I have no problem with it. As far as I'm concerned it's a private property rights issue. If the people who own the property want to build it, let them. Everyone else is just blowing hot air about something that's none of their business and, possibly, trying to coerce someone to coerce someone else to do (or not do) something they want (or don't want). Sounds silly doesn't it?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #196 of 447
The 'Ground Zero Mosque' Conundrum: Lessons From the Convent at Auschwitz

Quote:
From where I stand, there has to be another way to deal with this that is sensitive to both sides, accepting of both positions, healing of both wounds and a monument to real peace. In that case, it will surely be a monument that will shine a strong Islamic light in the very face of that small part of Islam that wants, it seems, to shatter that glow.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sister..._b_684793.html

Bloomberg: says it would be
Quote:
"a sad day for America" if opponents successfully kill plans for a mosque proposed near the World Trade Center site.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_683692.html

Quote:
Gingrich does not object to the project because the wrong sort of Muslims are building it. He objects to any Muslim house of worship on that site. He declares that "there should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia."

..absurd non sequitur: Since when is a foreign state's intolerance an excuse for trampling Americans' constitutional rights?

Once you strip away the Orwellian rhetoric equating peaceful religious activity with violence, Gingrich's position really is as simple, and appalling, as that.

http://reason.org/news/show/eye-of-newt


President George Washington's Letter to the Jews of Rhode Island Applies to the Muslims of New York

Quote:
... The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people, that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent national gifts. For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.....

From where I stand, there has to be another way to deal with this that is sensitive to both sides, accepting of both positions, healing of both wounds and a monument to real peace. In that case, it will surely be a monument that will shine a strong Islamic light in the very face of that small part of Islam that wants, it seems, to shatter that glow.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ed-koc..._b_683853.html
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
post #197 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

... on my ignore, but I clicked his post just to see how he replied to my point.

It is bad enough to tolerate liberals but closed-mined liberals are another thing entirely...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

..The people who oppose the community center are lumping all muslims into their hate along with those extreme few who were responsible for 9/11, hence the "you people".

The "you people" remark was your discrimination and your construct; not mine. I was responding to it... And no, nobody is "lumping" all Muslims; matter of fact this issue isn't about religion at all despite you trying to make it so. It is about tolerance. The 100 other mosques in NYC testify to this. We embrace all religions and all faiths! But not reckless antagonism next door to Ground Zero where more than 3,000 Americans died from JIhad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

.And the survivors of 9/11 are not the ones who are irritated by the idea of this center.

Do you lie often? Story after story has been posted showing 09/11/01 survivors who are opposed to this Ground Zero Mosque.

New York 9/11 survivors protest mosque plans near ground zero

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

.It's only the haters who are irritated.

Most of America are haters?

Majority opposes mosque near Ground Zero

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

And "why not build it somewhere else?" Why should they? It's their property. It's in an area where there is no Muslim Center. It is also in an area that may be visited by people who are interested in the political implications of 9/11, hence those that would benefit most from a little education and tolerance on the matter.

Where is the tolerance from the Ground Zero Mosque developers? The only thing to be gained from further construction of this Ground Zero Mosque is further controversy and ill will toward Islam. Is that tolerance?

Offer Rejected to Move Mosque Away From Ground Zero
post #198 of 447
You want to know what makes Christian-Capitalist fundamentalists so nauseating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

It is bad enough to tolerate liberals but closed-mined liberals are another thing entirely...

It's the hypocrisy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

The "you people" remark was your discrimination and your construct; not mine.

Consecutive sentences.
post #199 of 447
"The "you people" remark was your discrimination and your construct; not mine."

No, it was not my discrimination. It was not my statement. It was a hypothetical quotation.

There's a pretty good reason why you're the only one I've ever blocked in PO.
post #200 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

"The "you people" remark was your discrimination and your construct; not mine."

No, it was not my discrimination. It was not my statement. It was a hypothetical quotation.

Can you answer a question here? Can you scroll back to the instance you used this "hypothetical quotation" and make a case for it being anything but discrimination? Surely you are aware of the negative connotation the phrase carries when used to belittle groups... that was my point.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Mosque planned for ground zero.