Mosque planned for ground zero. - Page 7

Grants for Building Churches
By Christine Switzer, eHow Contributor
updated: September 11, 2009



http://www.ehow.com/about_5383251_gr...-churches.html

Are there no legal means to prevent the burning of Korans?

That is such a provocative act... and the justification for it giving by that pastor to give a message to radical Islam is rediculous... radical islamists, although also offended, rub their hands in gleeful anticipation knowing fully well that it will be an unbelievable big PR-win for them, a present, granting them numerous new recruits and sympathisers... while seriously pushing away moderate muslims.

EXACTLY.

When people blow up buildings and kill people on public transport, the aim is to radicalise Muslims.

The aim isn't just to kill strangers. It's to provoke survivors into stupid shit like this. This is a victory.

Burning the Qur'an is perfect. Good going, you total pussies. You might as well just have a money drive and send fifty thousand dollars to some back room in Allahabad. What total, total dicks.

Why no concern when copies of the Book of Mormon are dragged in the street and burned in front of LDS Temples? Why no concern when Christians are mocked and ridiculed in political cartoons?

If you're defending the burning of these Qur'ans then I really underestimated you.

Understanding that you're not, because you're not such a despicable, small person:


When have the Books of Mormon been dragged and burned anywhere? I've never, ever heard of this happening. Not to say that it hasn't. But I've never heard of this happening. I'm sure if Christian fundamentalists did this, I'd object (any chance, you know me. )

But secondly. Er... context. Come on.

This isn't happening against a background of Mormon fundamentalists threatening terrorist actions against my country. Politically radicalised Mormons aren't delighted at the prospect of recruiting more angry Mormons to their cause.

The American military hasn't invaded two Mormon-majority states and killed many, many thousands of Mormons in response to Mormon fundamentalists killing thousands of American, Spanish, English and Ugandan people recently.

And if you're comparing the burning of the Qur'an to the mockery of Christians in political cartoons, then you don't understand the insult. This a calculated act of provocation that hits religious people in the most sensitive spot possible. You don't even put your feet up on your knee if they end up facing that book. "That is retarded", you may say, and you may be correct. But it doesn't change the fact that burning that book is provocative and it's going to make any kind of progress more difficult for those of us who just demand the right to live in peace.

If you want to defend their right to do it then... well, we're not going to be friends anymore.

Is your quarrel with someone defending a person's right to burn a Qur'an (or any other book they own) or with someone defending a person doing it.

Of course they have a right to burn the Qur'an, just as people have the right to burn the American flag.

I don't agree with or condone either action, but they clearly have a Constitutional right to do so.

Neighborly Christian Love or Hate Speech?

California Proposition 8: Post Election Events

I'm not American, so I don't really give a fuck whether or not these people are within their constitutional rights to burn this book.

The only reason they have to do this disgusting thing is to make people angry.

Selfishly, it's going to make life more difficult for those of us who want to live in peace (and that includes American troops.)

Less selfishly, we need to find solutions to the shit we're in. Burning this book is saying "We don't want solutions."

Less selfishly still, it is morally wrong to burn sacred texts. It's the kind of thing bad people do. We don't want to be like those bad people, do we?

Those of us in America do have to concern ourselves with such things.



Agreed.



I know I don't.

Thanks for bringing these bad things to my attention. I reject them and the dickheads who did this.

Great. Good for us. At last we've found something we can agree on.

While I am against this Qur'an burning, I believe illegally invading and occupying nations that happen to be predominantly Muslim and killing civilians there has unnecessarily put our troops in harm's way to a much greater degree.

Of course, Obama was against the wars before he was for them, so that makes it all better.

Obama was against the wars before he inherited them.

And expanded one.

God, don't need to tell me. I went on all the marches against George Bush's stupid, dangerous wars.

Good post... those among us that are Christians find the Quran burning distasteful; no religious text should be burned from any religion. So too, those among us that are American find burning the American flag distasteful. No flag of any nation should be burned. But both actions are cited as examples of protected speech. So who is coming to the defense of those practicing Quran burning? The same folks that practice flag burning? Hardly. Both of these examples of what are called protected speech under the Constitution but that does not mean it is wise to do either. Like the Ground Zero mosque, simply because there is a right to do so doesn't mean it is wise to do so.

Good one!

And for the record the Quran burning has got to be one of the most idiotic acts I've ever heard of. What's next burning people? It kind of reminds me of another group who used to wear hoods and burn crosses.

Once you remove the hysteria, people will see that the building of the Park 51 Islamic Cultural Center is a good thing and there is no reason to oppose its construction.

Petraeus likened the Q'ran burning with Abu Ghraib images. In term saying that Bush/Cheney = Terry Jones.

BTW the burning is cancelled but the torture was not. Terry Jones is more reasonable and "human" than Bush - Cheney.

That was quick:

NY Mosque Investor Declines Trump's Buyout Offer

Why does no-one ever mention the Muslims killed on 9/11 ? I think the numbers are unknown but there were certainly hundreds.

If these Muslims were victims just like everyone else, and if they were not the kind of people who would fly planes into buildings then surely they are the same as anyone else? And surely that means there is no problem with the cultural centre UNLESS the organizers are the sort of people who fly planes into buildings themselves?

List of some of the 9/11 victims of the Muslim faith @

One of the Heros of 9/11


http://islam.about.com/blvictims.htm

It turns out that there used to be a prayer room in the South Tower of the WTC, on the 17th floor, used by Muslims on a regular basis. According to the article in the New York Times, some 60+ Muslims were killed in the attacks, people who were obviously not subscribers to the Odigo instant messaging service which received a tip off two hours before the attacks.

Does anyone remember "Naim" from the old AI forums?

I do, from maybe 10 years ago when I first started posting here. He's probably in one of the hundreds of CIA rendition camps scattered all over the planet.... \

Some comments:


Elizabeth Meehan, a 51-year-old Christian from Saratoga, N.Y., rode in by bus from her home 180 miles away.


more at:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=129773340

Either if the US is at war against Islam, or if the US is not at war with Islam, any president would publicly claim the latter, for obvious reasons. What he says *PRIVATELY* to his (AIPAC, JINSA, AEI, etc etc) etc. advisors and handlers is undoubtedly a different ball of wax.

From what has happened in the last 9 years, it seems quite patently obvious that the US IS at war with Islam, especially when one considers that many of the most influential policy-makers in DC, both with the current and previous administrations, have a sizable contingent of Islamophobes.

Its kinda plain, but politically incorrect to admit.

He was a super nutcase and a few months before 9/11 he started posting, "look out, something big is going to happen soon." And then the AI IRC chatroom was taken over by people posting in Arabic. I'm not lying.

We have an IRC chatroom?

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2010/08/3...eedom-religion

New York Officials who have stepped up to support the Park 51 Islamic Cultural Center/Mosque:


freedom?http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/24/opinion/24tue3.html


http://www.observer.com/2010/politic...-mosque-stance


http://www.capitalnewyork.com/articl...ue-thing-still

Apparently so....

Do the archives still exist from the old A.I.? It should have been possible to identify the poster's ISP, even if just for "banning" purposes by the moderators.

Something big is going to happen soon? Hmmmm... and they claim that it was a total surprise... yet some bozo posting in a "boutique bulletin board" seemed to have the heads up. Mind you, there's plenty of people who speak Arabic, and they are not necessarily aligned with Arab or Muslim causes.. especially if they are spreading messages like that!

It doesn't necessarily point to a conspiracy as such - there is a lot of evidence of 'fore-shadowing' the 911 tragedy in popular culture...it seems it was a psychic meme that was out there to be picked up on for quite some time prior to the event.

Perhaps the most famous 'fore-shadowing' is the album cover for the band Coup's album released some time before 9/11.



Or even the cover of a US Dept of justice report, again prior to 9/11.



Likewise an Egyptian calendar for September 2001 had a picture of a crashing plane and the Manhattan skyline;



None of these, imo, were 'in on' any conspiracy but somehow picked up on things that were going to happen...

As far as I know, everything pre-blackout was lost irrecoverably, except the handful of cosmetic pages that might have been archived by third parties such as wayback, or later, google. And there would have never been a record of what was posted in the chatroom.

I remember those chats, and even remember wondering if I should save them for any reason.

Pretty sure it was AIM back then, as I've never been on IRC.

By Karen DeYoung
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/che...ption_bei.html


If there is any reason why there is a need for the Park 51 Islamic Cultural Center and Mosque to be built where it is planned is to allow an open dialogue and understanding between all cultures and religions in the United States. If the opponents are allowed to persuade the moving of the site, it will send a wrong message that the US is intolerant to those of the Muslim faith.


Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf has offered as much assurances as possible to assure that the center will be open to all. I think that the argument whether he has the right to build the center at the location is moot. It is time that the question of whether it should be built at the site is put to rest and allow the construction to begin.

But if he unilaterally withdrew without a victory, he'd be a defeatist liberal commie peace-nick. So, basically a lose/lose situation for Obama. Which would you have preferred him to do, since you're against the expansion, right?

Bush broke it, Obama's (and probably the next administration if he doesn't get re-elected, the way things are going) left with the bill.

The current economic woes we are seeing now were decades in the making. Bush certainly added to the problem, but you can't pin the blame solely on him or Obama.

Obama, however, is expanding upon Bush's failures.