Originally Posted by Camp David
"The proposed “Cordoba House” overlooking the World Trade Center site – where a group of jihadists killed over 3000 Americans and destroyed one of our most famous landmarks – is a test of the timidity, passivity and historic ignorance of American elites. For example, most of them don’t understand that “[B]Cordoba House” is a deliberately insulting term. It refers to Cordoba, Spain – the capital of Muslim conquerors who symbolized their victory over the Christian Spaniards by transforming a church there into the world’s third-largest mosque complex.
But this is not true. I am now even more convinced of the need for the thread on Islam which was Fellow's suggestion.
I think we all want peace and not division - sometimes division occurs and conflict arises, shit happens. But why make it up when it is not true?
Cordova is far from an insulting term: it is the place where Jews, Christians and Muslims lived together for 800 years.
Of course if you want to find reasons to deny this or denigrate it then you can as you can with anything.
Today, some of the Mosque’s backers insist this term is being used to “symbolize interfaith cooperation” when, in fact, every Islamist in the world recognizes Cordoba as a symbol of Islamic conquest. It is a sign of their contempt for Americans and their confidence in our historic ignorance that they would deliberately insult us this way.
It is not a mosque. It is a Cultural Centre.
Every Islamist does not actually think what you quote here btw - Islamists generally hate the time of co-operation between religions because it is something they do not want. Like some in the West do not want it too.
Those Islamists and their apologists who argue for “religious toleration” are arrogantly dishonest. They ignore the fact that more than 100 mosques already exist in New York City. Meanwhile, there are no churches or synagogues in all of Saudi Arabia. In fact no Christian or Jew can even enter Mecca."[/I]
Which is why I suppose such a Centre could never occur in Saudi Arabia. This is poor logic.
It would only be sound logic if the Centre was Saudi financed or Wahabi based. Or, if perhaps the Saudi version of Islam is correct.
You can argue those points but I would quote the Qur'an on the issue of Christians and Jews:
"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).
So as the Qur'an claims that Jews and Christians will also go to heaven there arose two traditions in Islam:
1) That one should not - nor need to - try to convert them
2) that they can worship in Islamic areas.
Saudi do not believe this - or they ignore it - but there it is: in the Qur'an.
And also remember: the Saudi version of Islam is an eighteenth century development. Islam existed for 1200 years before the Saudi Wahabi belief was ever heard of.
But you know, at the end of the day it all boils down to this: we have all one life to live - whatever you think happens after if anything - and it will pass very quickly.
You can spend your time in a negative fashion looking for divisions and bad things - and you will find them pretty quick - or you can try to do something about it and leave the world a better place in no matter how small a way.
That's what I've decided to do anyway and I want to be counted with the peacemakers and those that make an effort and not those who complain and point out the bad while doing nothing. We all have this choice so between Mr Gringrich and the Cordoba Project I'll choose the latter as it seems to me more constructive. Others are free to make their own choices.
All I would say is the real evidence should be on the table so they can choose objectively without manipulation.