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Mosque planned for ground zero. - Page 12

Poll Results: Are you in favor of a new mosque near ground zero?

 
  • 54% (20)
    Yes.
  • 45% (17)
    No.
37 Total Votes  
post #441 of 447
10/16/10 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Cool...so arrest these dickheads then.

Probably not going to happen---Don't think that they left any calling cards. However see that in the UK they arrested a group burning the Qur'an:
Inciting racial hatred: UK police arrest 6 for burning Korans @ http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/u...urning-korans/

and for making anti-semetic hatred remarks:
Foreign Office diplomat arrested over 'anti-Semitic' rant @ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...itic-rant.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

My point is a wider one though; the purpose of Free Speech is to IMPROVE society and the development of the citizens...

NOT to reduce everyone to the same gibbering mass of cretinous morons.

Yeah right, like this is going to happen here in PO, however there are at times interesting dialogue exchanges, but seems like there are many that are locked in their hard line positions--- as an example O'Reilly on the View @
http://watching-tv.ew.com/2010/10/14...-bill-oreilly/

But I agree with Barbara WaWa that Behar and Goldberg should not have walked off the set---dialogue stops when you not there to state your position. By the way they were the host and should be used to having AH's on their show, now and again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Clearly it's not working so why not re-appraise? Unless that is, we are wedded to the actual 'words' and idea rather than the result.

Hell...we could even be still using mercury to cure people....save a lot of money and it was done with the best humanitarian intentions.

We can only keep trying to keep trying to have open dialogue.

Regarding Freedom of Speech, the issue is a complex issue as one case is before the Supremes, Snyder v. Phelps. Op-Ed @ http://www.tuftsdaily.com/mobile/the...elps-1.2362746
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #442 of 447
10/16/10 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Probably not going to happen---Don't think that they left any calling cards. However see that in the UK they arrested a group burning the Qur'an:
Inciting racial hatred: UK police arrest 6 for burning Korans @ http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/u...urning-korans/

Yes...that's the problem for these idiots...they're bulbs are somewhat energy compliant if you catch my drift....they posted themselves on YouTube doing it.

Doh.

Quote:
and for making anti-semetic hatred remarks:
Foreign Office diplomat arrested over 'anti-Semitic' rant @ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...itic-rant.html

Yes...bad mistake. He should have shouted 'fucking Muslims' instead...they would have bought him champagne.

The UK is not quite in the Dutch league when it comes to Islamophobia but they're definitely working on it.

Quote:
Yeah right, like this is going to happen here in PO, however there are at times interesting dialogue exchanges, but seems like there are many that are locked in their hard line positions--- as an example O'Reilly on the View @
http://watching-tv.ew.com/2010/10/14...-bill-oreilly/

Wasn't thinking of PO - that's a lost cause - but the world in general. Which is also a lost cause...err....

Quote:
But I agree with Barbara WaWa that Behar and Goldberg should not have walked off the set---dialogue stops when you not there to state your position. By the way they were the host and should be used to having AH's on their show, now and again.

Sometimes though the cards are stacked and well..cash in your chips and leave the table before you're fleeced...

Quote:
We can only keep trying to keep trying to have open dialogue.

That's true...I appreciate your efforts in that department btw.... sometimes I am too cynical myself but you seem to do a lot of objective effort in an even-handed open way.

Quote:
Regarding Freedom of Speech, the issue is a complex issue as one case is before the Supremes, Snyder v. Phelps. Op-Ed @ http://www.tuftsdaily.com/mobile/the...elps-1.2362746

Yes...the US situation is slightly different too....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #443 of 447
10/17/10 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

The UK is not quite in the Dutch league when it comes to Islamophobia but they're definitely working on it.

I guess that there are differences not only between the US and Europe, but there are differences within Europe when it comes to Islamophobia.

Quote:
In the current political and social climate in Europe where a larger and more visible Muslim presence is causing a backlash they face strong head winds. Not only is mainstream Europe looking more askance at Muslims, but younger Muslims with higher expectations and hope for belonging are growing more restless.

Quote:
"Much of the depiction of Muslims is without sufficient knowledge," Ali says. "Iraq, Afghanistan, the Taliban that's how we are seen. It's sad. We would like to showcase who we are in a good way."

It is Europe, not the United States, where the West and Islam exist in closest daily proximity. Some 20 million to 30 million Muslims live here, making up about 4 percent of the population compared with less than 1 percent in America. Mosques, once an urban phenomenon, are found in far corners of the Continent. Muslims are more visible on European streets, and most are not professionals, but work in retail, agriculture, food service, and labor.

[I]n Europe a pushback against immigrants, many of whom are Muslim, has been under way for much longer. A postwar Europe long priding itself on cosmopolitan tolerance is facing a population seen as different at a time of concern about the economy, jobs, and when mainstream Europe isn't quite sure about its security and its future.

Quote:
"Values of national identity and patriotism are starting to take shape over an older argument in Europe about tolerance, plurality, freedom of expression,"

says Edward Mortimer, vice president of the Salzburg Seminar in Austria, which helped launch the Muslim professionals network.

Daniel Luban, a doctoral candidate at the University of Chicago, offers in a recent paper that many of the core assumptions of "Islamophobia" in the US spring from Europe.
Quote:
"While the political operatives behind the anti-mosque campaign speak the language of nativism and American exceptionalism, their ideology is itself something of a European import. Most of the tropes of the American 'anti-jihadists,' as they call themselves, are taken from European models."

Justin Vaïsse, an analyst at the Brookings Institution in Washington, argues that actual data about Muslim birthrates in Europe (which are declining as Muslims assimilate and have smaller families) and immigration (500,000 a year) belie the dire projections of the Continent becoming Eurabia.

Quote:
"The paradox of this genre is that it dwells on the heated controversies and tensions taking place in Europe while at the same time claiming that Europeans are in denial of their problems," says Mr. Vaïsse, coauthor of "Integrating Islam: Political and Religious Challenges in Contemporary France." "And the emphasis on the anecdotal tends to obscure the fact that, from the fight over minarets in Switzerland to the debate over head scarves in France, current tensions are part of a normal and democratic process of adjustment, not the first signs of an impending catastrophe."

Often absent are views of Muslims themselves. Much of the discussion aimed at Islam takes place as if the Muslims weren't in the room. Scant attention is paid to vast religious and cultural differences between groups. French Muslims tend to be from Arab and African states, British Muslims from South Asia, Dutch Muslims from Morocco and Indonesia, German Muslims from Turkey.

Muslims, interviewed at mosques, offices, and cafes in Paris and London, say they often don't recognize common depictions of themselves. They resent the fact that Islam is a subject of derision and reject the stereotype of Muslims as being one uniform, slightly sinister group.

Tufyal Choudhury, a law lecturer at Durham University in England and the primary author of an 11-city study on Muslims in Europe, notes that Muslim concerns are not about spreading the faith, but housing, education, and neighborhood safety. Young second-generation Muslims have high expectations but often feel excluded. "Their parents had less expectations and less disappointment," he says.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europ...iled-in-Europe


Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

My point is a wider one though; the purpose of Free Speech is to IMPROVE society and the development of the citizens...

NOT to reduce everyone to the same gibbering mass of cretinous morons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Yeah right, like this is going to happen here in PO, however there are at times interesting dialogue exchanges, but seems like there are many that are locked in their hard line positions--- as an example O'Reilly on the View @
http://watching-tv.ew.com/2010/10/14...-bill-oreilly/


Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Wasn't thinking of PO - that's a lost cause - but the world in general. Which is also a lost cause...err....

Quote:
The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it.* If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth:* if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.*

~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859

Hang in there.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
post #444 of 447
10/17/10 at 2:18pm
Merkel says German multi-cultural society has failed
by Audrey Kauffmann Sun Oct 17, 11:50 am ET

Quote:
BERLIN (AFP) Germany's attempt to create a multi-cultural society has failed completely, Chancellor Angela Merkel said at the weekend, calling on the country's immigrants to learn German and adopt Christian values.
Quote:
"This approach has failed, totally," she said, adding that immigrants should integrate and adopt Germany's culture and values.

"We feel tied to Christian values. Those who don't accept them don't have a place here," said the chancellor.


無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
post #445 of 447
10/19/10 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post


Guess the religion?

(FineTunes, no cheating!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post



Hint: Garden Grove California
Hint: Initials R. S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Try again!

That is actually the First Church of Climatology in Christ. The power of light acts as a massive generator and produces a pure form of Gods love that powers not just souls but solar panels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
2 Samuel 1:25

You mean they sold the CC and someone bought and renamed it? Read that the CC was having hard times---didn't pray hard enough?

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/c...creditors.html

http://www.google.com/images?client=...ed=0CDwQsAQwAg

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...26tbs%3Disch:1


Crystal Cathedral Ministries Seeks Bankruptcy, Blames Recession
By Steven Church
(c) 2010 Bloomberg News
Tuesday, October 19, 2010; 12:05 AM

Quote:
The church, known for its television show "The Hour of Power," listed assets and debts of $50 million to $100 million each in Chapter 11 documents filed yesterday in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Santa Ana, California. The church, based in Garden Grove, claims a congregation of 10,000 members.

Quote:
"Budgets could not be cut fast enough to keep up with the unprecedented rapid decline in revenue due to the recession," Senior Pastor Sheila Schuller Coleman said in a statement.

The church decided to file bankruptcy after some of its creditors sued for payment, according to the statement. The board of directors on Aug. 27 authorized a bankruptcy filing by Chief Financial Officer Fred W. Southard, according to court papers.

Robert Schuller cited the title of his 1984 book --
Quote:
"Tough Times Never Last, But Tough People DO!"

-- as he forecast in the statement that the church will overcome its financial difficulties. Church operations, including the television show, will continue while Crystal Cathedral tries to reorganize and reduce its debts, the church said.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
post #446 of 447
10/23/10 at 8:59am
In previous post in this thread, Temecula CA and Tennessee were two places where protest or controversies erupted over the building of Mosque or islamic Centers. Here's a more complete list:

REPORT
http://features.pewforum.org/muslim/...-text-10-5.pdf

INTERACTIVE MAP
http://features.pewforum.org/muslim/...ss-the-us.html

The Mosque in America: A National Portrait
http://www.cair.com/Portals/0/pdf/Th...l_Portrait.pdf
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
post #447 of 447
11/20/10 at 2:49pm
Justice Stevens voices support for NYC mosque: The Washington Post

Quote:
Retired Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens said Thursday that Americans should be tolerant of plans to build an Islamic center and mosque near the site of the World Trade Center in New York.

The 90-year-old Stevens said it is wrong to lump all Muslims with the terrorists who carried out the Sept. 11 attacks that killed 3,000 people. Guilt by association is unfair, he told the National Japanese American Memorial Foundation in Washington.

National Japanese American Memorial Foundation 10th Anniversary Gala Celebration--Justice John Paul Stevens Speech
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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