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Piper: Apple has 'little room for surprise' at WWDC 2010 - Page 2

post #41 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

...and it would still be about as useless as it is now. App Store support? Who cares? It's a freakin' TV box. That's it's primary function. It should deliver content and make accessing content (particularly TV content) I want easier. Apple TV will only be useful if there are subscription deals. Otherwise, it'll remain a 'hobby' for Apple and a way for some to make voluntary contributions to Apple's profits.

I disagree. An app store for the Apple TV would (potentially) give me access to BBC iPlayer, 4OD and Sky Player without hacking my box. There's plenty of applications that would make sense for the Apple TV.

Either way, I don't care if WWDC is full of surprises or not. As long as I know that iPhone OS 4 is coming, I'll be happy.
post #42 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by cxc273 View Post

I was thinking the same thing, especially in light of what Google recently announced. Even though the 160GB version's introduction was a huge leap in terms of storage, I still think that's rather small. I'd hope that the next Apple TV has 250-320GB of storage in it.

I'm going to throw out random claims of impending awesomeness. The new AppleTV comes with an iPod touch like remote that allows you to play all your stuff from the App Store including everything for the iPad (why hello ABC, nice to meet you). Standard HD capacity to go to 250GB and 320GB and, umm, I'll refrain from saying it'll have a coax input because I'm not *THAT* crazy
post #43 of 106
Apple has tons of room and reasons for shocking surprises on both the pricing and the carrier front.

They need to keep the primary focus from developers in a world where Android is looming. Meanwhile they currently have tremendous margins while they soon have iAd.

Mark my words: the prices are where the biggest surprises are going to be.
post #44 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

It's not the iPhone that is likely to see much in the way of surprising changes. The product that is likely to change significantly at some point in the coming year is the Touch. The screen on the Touch is too small for what the unit is now used for.

The Touch is close to optimal in size, in fact a slightly smaller version might be even better. You see it fills the niche of a Touch OS device that is pocketable and NOT a cell phone. There are a wide range of customers that can't have or don't want the extra features in an iPhone.

On the other hand I do believe Apple needs a device in the 5-7" range. This however would be a new device and not a Touch replacement.
Quote:
The current Touch form factor is ideal for a phone but the Touch isn't a phone.

Nope it is ideal for a device that you want to put in your pocket. That is the niche Touch tries to fill, that is a pocketable IPhone OS device that is cell phone free.
Quote:
One response to the iPad will be touch devices sporting larger screens than the current Touch. Hence, the logical move would be for Apple to make a larger screen on the Touch an upgrade to respond to the competition, such as it is.

It isn't that I'm disagreeing with the idea that a larger device is needed just that that needs to be an additional device. Besides Touch still sells well and with a few mods will continue to do so.
Quote:
Being as memory on the devices is now rather decent, instead of doubling memory Aple can choose to provide a larger screen using the lower cost of memory to maintain margin. If that screen sports a similar resolution to the iPad, it will make it even better suited as an e-reader, etc., not to mention allowing it to run any iPad app.

A big fail on your part if you think these devices have enough memory be that RAM of secondary storage.
Quote:

Regardless, the Touch is now in an awkward place re Apple's product mix and as such a significant shift is bound to happen. The iPhone, on the other hand, is pretty much set in terms of form factor. It can't get any larger or significantly shrink without being worse as a result. For the forseeable future the iPhone is pretty much set, just as Apple has been selling 13", 15" and 17" laptops for years.

Touch is fine right where it is at. Apple does need to round out the iPhone OS devices line up but that doesn't mean deleteing the position the current Touch holds.


Dave
post #45 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

I get the feeling that we won't hear a peep from Apple about the ATV at WWDC. At this point, Apple either has to kill off the ATV, or go for complete reconstructive surgery. I think they will opt to make it really great to compete with the GoogleTV, but something liek this surely will get it's own press event, say in September/October? Just my feeling on the subject. I will however welcome the change whenever Apple decides to announce.

*fingers crossed*

The Apple TV is alive and well. Games, DVR, Safari, OS 4.0 perhaps, etc.... Apple has been working on this stuff for some time now.

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patentl...-apple-tv.html
post #46 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

I disagree. An app store for the Apple TV would (potentially) give me access to BBC iPlayer, 4OD and Sky Player without hacking my box. There's plenty of applications that would make sense for the Apple TV.

Either way, I don't care if WWDC is full of surprises or not. As long as I know that iPhone OS 4 is coming, I'll be happy.

Speaking of iPhone OS 4...what do you all think the chances are of it not being ready for prime time? Upgrading to OS 2 was horrendous, and took forever to get things right. And there have been other point releases that caused problems due to not enough quality testing in advance of release.

So do we think Apple has learned some valuable lessons on this front? I need and want the functionality promised by OS 4, but I don't want to deal with a buggy version.
post #47 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranReloaded View Post

Unless, of course, Steve unveils something NO ONE has even heard of

It would be interesting if Apple releases the new iPhone and it looks nothing like the leaked stuff. And makes a fool out of those who leaked the purposely wrong prototypes. But that's just me and my spiteful self
post #48 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

Speaking of iPhone OS 4...what do you all think the chances are of it not being ready for prime time? Upgrading to OS 2 was horrendous, and took forever to get things right. And there have been other point releases that caused problems due to not enough quality testing in advance of release.

So do we think Apple has learned some valuable lessons on this front? I need and want the functionality promised by OS 4, but I don't want to deal with a buggy version.

Take a wait &see approach. Any new product or OS always has a few bugs. If you don't want to deal with them wait a while till things get worked out. Which usually doesn't take that long with APPLE
post #49 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

Take a wait &see approach. Any new product or OS always has a few bugs. If you don't want to deal with them wait a while till things get worked out. Which usually doesn't take that long with APPLE

Agreed!
post #50 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

Take a wait &see approach. Any new product or OS always has a few bugs. If you don't want to deal with them wait a while till things get worked out. Which usually doesn't take that long with APPLE

I totally agree, and wait and see is my current motto...I am just wondering if you all think this will have gotten better after the oS 2 fiasco? I'm hoping Apple has been testing OS 4 for a really really long time.
post #51 of 106
the big surprise will be a foxconn worker is going to jump down from the flyloft, splat on the stage, and Steve will take the next iphone from his hand.

yes, this post is tasteless, but so is having your hardware assembled in what you know are concentration camps.
post #52 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacApfel View Post

It would have taken away the surprise, if noone had expected a new iPhone. It's also no surprise that it sports a new design - and yes, a front facing camera isn't a surprise. If Apple wants to surprise (me) than better not with a simple iPhone upgrade that was anticipated by a majority.

Exactly. Everyone KNEW there would be a new iphone last year. Only a few details were unknown at that point.

And even without Gawker's trip into the illegal, there would have been leaks.

But who knows what rabbits are in Job's hat. He could talk about 10.7, there could be Safari upgrades like the rumored plugins/extensions. perhaps there's some ilife/iwork upgrades. for example, iweb supporting HTML5 (and hopefully user created templates and better 'code' insertion etc). Plus there are rumors of Final Cut Studio being revamped, perhaps also Logic Studio.

How about a new Mac Pro, a huge update to the Apple TV and so on.

Munster is, as is typical, talking out of his ass. The only difference is that he's not making over the top positive comments
post #53 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

The Apple TV is alive and well. Games, DVR, Safari, OS 4.0 perhaps, etc.... Apple has been working on this stuff for some time now.

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patentl...-apple-tv.html

I tend to think of myself as pretty informed about Apple rumors and patent speculation, etc.m but I totally missed this. Thanks for posting, it was an excellent read. Makes me very excited for the future. And hey, if Apple wants to sling out some DVR love, I won't complain a bit, I'll just lovingly wave good-bye to TiVo
post #54 of 106
50" wall mountable Cinema Display with TV tuner and an update on Apple TV...i wish...there is certainly room for surprises...it just might not be the time to announce anything big
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post #55 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Apple announces that it's making MobileMe free and launching its own internet search engine.

apple is way behind, unless they are going to annouce iwork web apps, search engine, free storage, and major safari upgrade (and please change that stupid 'mobileme' name).
post #56 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

I tend to think of myself as pretty informed about Apple rumors and patent speculation, etc.m but I totally missed this. Thanks for posting, it was an excellent read. Makes me very excited for the future. And hey, if Apple wants to sling out some DVR love, I won't complain a bit, I'll just lovingly wave good-bye to TiVo

Patently Apple is a great site... It's a great place to learn what Apple Labs are really up to.
post #57 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

apple is way behind, unless they are going to annouce iwork web apps, search engine, free storage, and major safari upgrade (and please change that stupid 'mobileme' name).

googlewebapps is definitely a better name. I like mobile me. The name represents exactly what it is, and has some personal appeal.
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post #58 of 106
The only thing that could make the keynote interesting at this point is if Steve goes on stage and fumbles for the new iphone which he can't find, and then Jason Chen stands up in the audience and woefully hands over a bag full of iphone breakdown parts, but I doubt Steve has that sort of sense of humor.
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post #59 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

To be honest, I don't see much point in Google TV. Sure, people watch Youtube and Hulu, but the problem is that Hulu would probably block Google TV from watching its shows, because that would make it too easy for people to drop cable.

Only problem I see with this line of thought is that Hulu doesn't post the episodes right away. If a show's supposed to air on normal TV on Wednesday, do you really want to wait until Hulu posts it to watch it?

The way I see it, adding Hulu (if GTV gets a partnership going) is padding the content available to you. There's only so much time you have to dedicate to watching live shows, so you're bound to miss a show here and there. By that time, Hulu might have it posted and you can jump right to it and watch. Also works during times where there's nothing of interest on live TV.

Quote:
The problem is, why have Google TV if you could watch the same content already? Are you really willing to spend $300-500 for a device that makes you type in stuff to get to the content you want? I don't think Apple TV has to worry, Google TV will implode, as few people will buy something that seems rather built in search of a problem.

If the search is as simple as typing "Mythbusters" (for example) into a search box and Google doing the work to pull a list of current, future, and archived episodes from a variety of sources, I'd gladly pay for that device.

Quote:
EDIT: Other people commented that Amazon and Netflix would be possible contenders as well for content. What's to stop the content providers from saying Netflix and Amazon can't stream to Google TV or Apple TV unless they have a deal? And such a deal would be unprecedented, because that would eat into cable subscriptions.

I don't see how they won't let that happen. The feature's available on the XBox, PS3, and Wii and cable companies don't seem to have an issue with it. Those are also third-party devices you plug into the TV just like GTV will be.

Again, Netflix and Amazon will just be additional sources of search. I'm guessing that there will always be an option to purchase the episode or movie via Amazon and that if you have a Netflix account, you tell GTV that when you set it up and it'll use that information when you pick from Netflix.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #60 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

Speaking of iPhone OS 4...what do you all think the chances are of it not being ready for prime time?
So do we think Apple has learned some valuable lessons on this front? I need and want the functionality promised by OS 4, but I don't want to deal with a buggy version.

The previews I had seen suggest that 4.0 is far more stable than any previous release at the same stage in it's development.
post #61 of 106
Apple has plenty of room for big surprises on both the pricing and the carrier front!

Android looming on the horizon means Apple needs to increase their marketshare really rapidly now, if they want to keep the main focus from the developers - under Apple's own conditions.

Apple has lots of room for increasing their marketshare, because at the moment they have huge margins, iAds nearly ready and only a few of all possible carriers carrying them.

We have seen nothing yet.
post #62 of 106
If a new ATV is introduced. It will be running on iPhone OS 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

I'm going to throw out random claims of impending awesomeness. The new AppleTV comes with an iPod touch like remote that allows you to play all your stuff from the App Store including everything for the iPad (why hello ABC, nice to meet you). Standard HD capacity to go to 250GB and 320GB and, umm, I'll refrain from saying it'll have a coax input because I'm not *THAT* crazy
post #63 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigi View Post

YESSSS it's own search engine, I think this is the thing Apple have no choice to go in.


Apple totally has the choice to not. Just like they didn't create their own ISP for MobileMe etc, they didn't create their own cellphone company for the iphone.

Truth is, Apple would be better off not getting into the search engine business. It would be following not leading and it could put them into more DoJ danger because it would only make sense to make it the default on Safari etc and that could be seen, particularly with the phone os, as anti trust

There are many things Apple can do at WWDC that aren't big brand new things but improving on what they have been doing.

some features of MobileMe going free while others stay paid, or even the price just coming down.
updates to ilife/iwork
updates to the pro App suites
updates to the Mac Pro
updates to the Apple TV
an update to itunes to use the tech gained by buying lala.com
new free apps for the iphone os done indie style like ibooks so you can use or not as you like (and they can improve without needing a total OS update)

and so on.
all of these are useful, come be pretty darn amazing etc even though they are just 'taking a breath' moments. but what is the harm in that. They have released some killer stuff with the ipad and this new phone does appear to be rather amazing. So now would be the perfect time to circle the wagons and clean up some stuff. Improve what is already on the table rather than clutter it up with more new stuff.

And who doesn't like to see their existing stuff get better. Don't we often see gripes about Apple launching and forgetting stuff. Like the Mac Pro, like the Apple TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

I get the feeling that we won't hear a peep from Apple about the ATV at WWDC. At this point, Apple either has to kill off the ATV, or go for complete reconstructive surgery. I think they will opt to make it really great to compete with the GoogleTV, but something liek this surely will get it's own press event, say in September/October?

I tend to suspect that they have already been doing this reconstructive surgery but no one was paying attention cause it's just Job's "hobby" and not something "important" like a laptop or the iphone.

I also suspect that Mr Eric knew that something was up for this summer before he left and announced his TV when he did in an attempt to beat Apple to the punch. Trouble is that like the ipad v courier et al, Apple will announce with release (perhaps even immediate) while the GoogleTV gave us a demo of something for 'later'


Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

So, with that said, I don't think they will ever dive into delivering a DVR. I think they will focus on streaming.

Agree. Sort of. I don't know that it would be streaming or timed downloads. But I do think they will do something. However I disagree that it will be via Hulu etc. Going that route is as big a bag of hurt as Blu-ray. You are dependent on someone else's contracts for content and the terms. If they change something, you lose.

I think that Apple will continue to focus on itunes and having their own contracts for content. Get more shows up, old and new, get more movies. More stuff in HD, even work on a 1080p file that isn't outlandishly huge. More rental options, lower prices, hopefully convince the studios/networks to allow a subscription service even if just the SD files for now. Something that is one fee for the whole buffet. One version that was going around was a 24 hour timed download (a kin to the rentals) but you could have as many as you want and repeat as often as you want. From the whole library. Say $30 a month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Only problem I see with this line of thought is that Hulu doesn't post the episodes right away.

No one does. Google won't likely either.

The issue is the studios and networks. See their income is 100% tied to the very outdated Nielsen system. That means on the air broadcasts. So they will not allow anything that could possibly cut into that. they have not yet embraced the idea or found a system to incorporate things like itunes and amazon into the show funding equations. So they stick with the old. And will probably until someone takes a stand and sues them over it. Something crazy like declaring the whole system censorship. The lawsuit would likely fail but the blogs etc would be on fire over the issue. So it might still shake things up
post #64 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

While MobileMe isn't a high priority for me (I don't wan to pay to use it), I certainly would welcome with open arms free mobile me. I don't see it happening, but it would be great. I think at the very least all iPhone users should get this for free, if only for the free "find my phone feature".

Seriously, how does the purchase price of an iPhone not get you either free or greatly reduced rate for Mobile Me?

We all want free lunches, don't we?
post #65 of 106
If someone found a bricked version of the 3GS, they would have missed all the new OS features of the phone:
  1. Video
  2. Speech recognition
  3. Compass

I'm sure there will still be suprises.
post #66 of 106
Steve Jobs is one of the GREATEST marketers of our time as well as being among the ranks of brilliancy. To even think that he would not take advantage of an opportunity like this is ridiculous. Being that everyone is thinking that the cats out of the bag and the element of surprise has vanished is all the more reason to expect a surprise.
post #67 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by awmawm View Post

We all want free lunches, don't we?

Yes we do, thanks for asking. Although I don't see this as a free lunch, after buying an iPhone, and signing a 2 year contract. If they cannot give it away for free to those users, at least discount it heavily. It should be factored into the service. Again, at least give everyone the find my phone feature. It is a security measure that we all need. It's not like I am asking for free music downloads.
post #68 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Agree. Sort of. I don't know that it would be streaming or timed downloads. But I do think they will do something. However I disagree that it will be via Hulu etc. Going that route is as big a bag of hurt as Blu-ray. You are dependent on someone else's contracts for content and the terms. If they change something, you lose.

This is a very good point. Apple certainly will not be at another company's mercy.
post #69 of 106
Move along, move along.

Gene Munster and Piper Jaffray are not the droids you are looking for....
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post #70 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by hattig View Post

well, there's new features in iphone os 4 that haven't been talked about yet.

There's new developer features in the next xcode, hey, it is wwdc after all.

there are things besides iphones in apple's product line-up.


exactly
post #71 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

The Touch is close to optimal in size, in fact a slightly smaller version might be even better. You see it fills the niche of a Touch OS device that is pocketable and NOT a cell phone. There are a wide range of customers that can't have or don't want the extra features in an iPhone.

On the other hand I do believe Apple needs a device in the 5-7" range. This however would be a new device and not a Touch replacement.

Nope it is ideal for a device that you want to put in your pocket. That is the niche Touch tries to fill, that is a pocketable IPhone OS device that is cell phone free.

It isn't that I'm disagreeing with the idea that a larger device is needed just that that needs to be an additional device. Besides Touch still sells well and with a few mods will continue to do so.

A big fail on your part if you think these devices have enough memory be that RAM of secondary storage.


Touch is fine right where it is at. Apple does need to round out the iPhone OS devices line up but that doesn't mean deleteing the position the current Touch holds.


Dave

The simple solution, and one similar to an approach that Apple has employed numerous times, is to offer a 16GB version of the current Touch for the price of the current 8GB version. Then use the Touch name for a range of products sporting a larger screen with capacities of 16GB and 32GB for the price of the current 16GB and 32GB versions.

I find that even the 8GB on my current Touch gets the job done. We're not talking a laptop that holds all of one's digital data, or a device loaded down with numerous apps taking up huge amounts of memory. 32GB is inadequate for a laptop but for a unit like this one that works in tandem with a proper laptop or desktop, that's a lot of capacity. If you're finding it's not enough that probably means you're being very sloppy in the way you're using it. I certainly think that if the capacity of these devices was so horribly inadequate, they wouldn't be nearly as popular as they have been.

Really the problem with the current Touch, as handy a device as it is, is that while being able to slip it into your pocket is handy, the compromises that causes are crippling for the uses this device is designed for, including e-reading, surfing, watching video, playing games, etc. Every one of those activities would be enhanced by going up to a screen in the 5-inch to 7-inch range. And the hit to portability would not be all that great. You'd still be able to slip such a device into purse, etc. which you can't really do with an iPad.

By keeping a Touch using the current form factor but reducing it down to a single model, Apple would have more bases covered by adding the larger Touch models to compliment the iPad. Also, Apple could also increase a little the size of the Nano which would also help fill the void left by not offering a full range of Touch models based on the current size.
post #72 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Apple announces that it's making MobileMe free and launching its own internet search engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigi View Post

YESSSS it's own search engine, I think this is the thing Apple have no choice to go in. Google choose to attack Apple, so Apple will attack Google in it's core business, I'm sure Steve Jobs dream to have that for Apple

I would love that..
I would like to see Apple attacks Google's core business..
I would prefer to use whatever Apple's than other's..
I would like to hear Steve Jobs ditches Google, and vice versa..
I would love to see this Apple vs. Google thing steps-up to a greater level..

Bottom line is, competition is good for us..
post #73 of 106
All the hopes/wishes/dreams that proceed these events should tell us that Munster is certainly right about one thing: Apple has an awful lot on their plate now. Used to be, events like WWDC could cover most of whatever product Apple was moving forward in any given year. Not anymore.
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post #74 of 106
Ok, so Steve set out to come up with surprises.

- Will announce the phone will come in several colors (and black and white are available today)
- Will announce a price drop
- Will have a surprise - hell he might as well be the one to start the rumor mills flying
- Will announce some interesting information on the iPad i.e., sales, where it heading, who's using it, blah, blah, blah

SURPRISE everyone, talk about

- New desktop units!
- New monitors!
- New Touch Screen iMac

I think he'll do something, because he doesn't appear to like being up-staged!

Skip
post #75 of 106
Surprise!!! Flash for iPhone!

iPad2 16 GB
iPhone 5 32 GB

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iPad2 16 GB
iPhone 5 32 GB

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post #76 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by columbus View Post

...we've yet to see how the OS and apps will look on that high dpi (possibly IPS) screen....

To paraphrase the popular motto of someone here on the board : "and the great iPhone OS fragmentation continues"

Quote:
Originally Posted by columbus View Post

There are always surprises.

Yeah, that's right.

Flash ?

Other distribution channels except of AppStore, including those that don't censor the content ?
post #77 of 106
The most important prerequisite for being surprised is not expecting to be surprised.
post #78 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

Is it me or does everyone else know that these analysis are trying to effect the stock of these companies with their lip service?
The new iphone will blow the socks off the competition.

Analysts all try to spin the news to manipulate stock value in their favor. For WWDC (and also formerly for Macworld), analysts who hold long positions on AAPL, and thus want the stock to keep going up, will downplay the rumors and make it sound like nothing will happen. So when Steve does announce something that will add to Apple's long-term profitability, the stock jumps a little on the surprise good news.

Analysts who are shorting AAPL, and thus hoping the stock will drop below a certain value before a certain time (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_(finance) ), all try to do two things, it seems. First, they'll spread false rumors like "Steve is dead" to trigger panic selling just before their due date. Second, they'll make wild claims that Apple could never fulfill, hoping that the stock will drop after Steve fails to announce miracles.

Steve must hate stock analysts. They weasel their way into corporate secrets, then leak rumors to their benefit. It's like "insider trading," which is illegal for a company's employees, except that they're outside the company. They have access to information about product roadmaps that average investors don't have, and they use it to their advantage.

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post #79 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

The most important prerequisite for being surprised is not expecting to be surprised.

I would be expect to be surprised if Steve didn't have more to say than just "Look! Here's the new iPhone. Thanks and have a great conference."

He could have plenty to talk about: iAds demo, iPhone OS 4.0 on iPad plus iPhone, iTunes Live (if the rumors are true), the $1 billion data center in North Carolina, free iTunes in the "cloud", iPhone OS 4.0 with App Store for Apple TV, lower pricing for iPhone, Sprint and/or Verizon CDMA iPhone, NFC iPhone-based eWallet technology (for retail purchases, airplane ticketing / boarding, and concert ticketing / admission), and who knows what else.

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post #80 of 106
I know this may come as a huge surprise, but there are actually a lot of people out there who don't read AppleInsider every day, and may find the WWDC announcements pretty darn cool.
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