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Sestak-Gate: Impeachment?

post #1 of 88
Thread Starter 
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=158617

When I initially heard that Sestak may have been offered a job to quit the PA Senate race, I thought that it was typical politics. I thought it was pretty low. I didn't consider that there was actually a law against it:

Quote:
(Karl Rove speaking): "This is a pretty extraordinary charge: 'They tried to bribe me out of the race by offering me a job,'" he said on Greta Van Susteran's "On the Record" program. "Look, that's a violation of the federal code: 18 USC 600 says that a federal official cannot promise employment, a job in the federal government, in return for a political act.

"Somebody violated the law. If Sestak is telling the truth, somebody violated the law," Rove said. "Section 18 USC 211 says you cannot accept anything of value in return for hiring somebody. Well, arguably, providing a clear path to the nomination for a fellow Democrat is something of value.

Section 600:

Quote:
Whoever, directly or indirectly, promises any employment, position, compensation, contract, appointment, or other benefit, provided for or made possible in whole or in part by any Act of Congress, or any special consideration in obtaining any such benefit, to any person as consideration, favor, or reward for any political activity or for the support of or opposition to any candidate or any political party in connection with any general or special election to any political office, or in connection with any primary election or political convention or caucus held to select candidates for any political office, shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(emphasis added)


Yes, I know. It's WND, which is not exactly balanced. It quotes Rove and Morris, who have their own political views. I think the issue remains, though. Who offered the position? Who approved the offer? What did the President know, and when did he know it?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #2 of 88
Sestak reaffirmed his statement. White House has some 'plaining to do.



Oh wait no. This is all just a distraction.
post #3 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by floorjack View Post

this is all just partisan, racist hate-mongering by people who hate barack obama...and bush's fault, not to mention the "party of no".

tftfy

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #4 of 88
you forgot "sedition"
post #5 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Sestak reaffirmed his statement. White House has some 'plaining to do...

Obama's warming up his Bush defense...
post #6 of 88
Last I checked, they will respond to the allegations in the next several days. If I were accused of felonies I wasn't guilty of, I'd emphatically deny the allegations. Guess they are looking for someone who will take one for the team and take responsibility.
post #7 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Last I checked, they will respond to the allegations in the next several days. If I were accused of felonies I wasn't guilty of, I'd emphatically deny the allegations. Guess they are looking for someone who will take one for the team and take responsibility.

What's interesting is that if there was nothing to this, one would assume it wouldn't take several days to formulate a response.

It's beginning to look like Obama's potential scandal weak spot will be centered around the filling of Senate seats. This is the second one (Obama's Senate seat in IL being the first) where there have been claims or allegations of some shady, behind the scenes shenanigans.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #8 of 88
Politics as usual for a Chicago politician...
post #9 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Last I checked, they will respond to the allegations in the next several days. If I were accused of felonies I wasn't guilty of, I'd emphatically deny the allegations. Guess they are looking for someone who will take one for the team and take responsibility.

Of course this has been out there for weeks. It's just that the mains have been ignoring it hoping it would go away.
post #10 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Of course this has been out there for weeks. It's just that the mains have been ignoring it hoping it would go away.

And if it gets to the point where it can no longer be ignored, then Obama will appoint a "commission" or a "task force" to look into it.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #11 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Of course this has been out there for weeks. It's just that the mains have been ignoring it hoping it would go away.

When Fox News has more viewers than MSNBC and CNN combined, can we really use words like Mainstream anymore? That is why I label them what they are, the Liberal Media. Mainstream would denote they have readers, viewers or something similar.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #12 of 88
Here's a sample of some more of WND fabulous scoops!

Quote:
Friends of Barack: In an interview that made world headlines and became a major theme in the 2008 presidential campaign, a top adviser to the terror group Hamas told WND, during a live broadcast, he "hopes" Barack Obama becomes president and compared the Illinois senator to John F. Kennedy


Wicked-pedia: The mega-website Wikipedia was found to have hundreds of graphic homosexual images, and the FBI launched an investigation into child pornography on the ubiquitous online encyclopedia


Who's czar-y now?: WND was the news agency that broke the first major story on Obama's "green-jobs" czar Van Jones and it was the dogged reporting of WND's Jerusalem bureau chief Aaron Klein that helped bring down the first high-ranking member of the Obama administration.


Big Brother Barack: WND was the first news organization to blow the whistle on Barack Obama's now much-ballyhooed "civilian national security force," which the then-presidential candidate asserted in a speech would be "just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded" as the half-trillion dollar Army, Marines, Navy and Air Force.

See a pattern here?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #13 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Of course this has been out there for weeks. It's just that the mains have been ignoring it hoping it would go away.

The idea of their progressive superhero doing a "perp walk" out the back door of the White House frightens the liberal media; this is hardly the first story to receive little or no coverage in the liberal rags...

MSNBC's Scarborough: "Media Malpractice" For Ignoring Sestak Story
post #14 of 88
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Here's a sample of some more of WND fabulous scoops!



See a pattern here?

Yes, jimmac. Attack the source. Ignore all the content. If you'd actually read, you'd see that I acknowledged the point of view of the source (and the people it quotes) in my opening post.

Tell ya what...watch the video, then tell me there is nothing there. Someone's is very likely going to jail here.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #15 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Someone's is very likely going to jail here.

Yeah, they really ought to put this -> <- n00b in jail.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #16 of 88
Other Frank, what is it you think Farah should be jailed for?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #17 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Yeah, they really ought to put this -> <- n00b in jail.

Really? Is he the one who tried to Bribe J. Sestak? Odd how the Obama sheep just ignore the issue and try to blame others. Is President Bush to blame for Obama's most recent scandal?
post #18 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Yeah, they really ought to put this -> <- n00b in jail.

Yes, ideas you don't agree with and information that goes contrary to your world view certainly warrant imprisonment of those who espouse them.

The First Amendment only applies to those you agree with, eh?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #19 of 88
Oops, sorry, didn't mean to interrupt this circle jerk thread.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #20 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Oops, sorry, didn't mean to interrupt this circle jerk thread.

Outlandish assertions and childish insults are all you got. How pathetic.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #21 of 88
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Outlandish assertions and childish insults are all you got. How pathetic.

Yes, exactly. Notice that our liberal friends won't address the issue at hand. We're dealing with a very real situation here. Sestak has repeatedly claimed that he was offered a job to get out of the race. He has stood by these claims time and time again.

Whoever offered that position is going to jail or will at least pay a large fine and lose his job. If Obama sanctioned it, he's going to be impeached. We're not talking about the President "lying" or "violating his oath" or anything quite so subjective. We're talking about an actual "high crime or misdemeanor."

We'll see.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #22 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Oops, sorry, didn't mean to interrupt this circle jerk thread.

You mean "oops! Didn't think I would get a reasoned response to my trolling post."
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #23 of 88
We briefly interupt your normally scheduled circle jerk, to bring you this important massage ...

Impeachment in the United States

Quote:
Impeachment proceedings may be commenced by a member of the House of Representatives on their own initiative, either by presenting a listing of the charges under oath, or by asking for referral to the appropriate committee. The impeachment process may be triggered by non-members. For example, when the Judicial Conference of the United States suggests a federal judge be impeached, a charge of what actions constitute grounds for impeachment may come from a special prosecutor, the President, a state or territorial legislature, grand jury, or by petition.

The type of impeachment resolution determines which committee it will be referred to. A resolution impeaching a particular individual is typically referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary. A resolution to authorize an investigation regarding impeachable conduct is referred to the House Committee on Rules, and then referred to the Judiciary Committee. The House Committee on the Judiciary, by majority vote, will determine whether grounds for impeachment exist. If the Committee finds grounds for impeachment they will set forth specific allegations of misconduct in one or more articles of impeachment. The Impeachment Resolution, or Article(s) of Impeachment, are then reported to the full House with the committee's recommendations.

So the impeachment bar is rather low to start with, so, for example, if you don't like Obama's farts, impeach him.

Hmm, but the D's currently control the House and all committees.

Hmm, so it would appear that waiting until after the midterms would seem prudent, hopefully the R's will regain the majority.

BTW, I actually want the R's to regain the majority, just so that they can impeach Obama.

Impeachment investigations of United States federal officials

Dubya? Check.
Dick? Check.
The Donald? Check.

United States presidential line of succession

President Joe Biden. That has a nice ring to it.
President Nancy Pelosi. That too has a nice ring to it.
President Hillary Rodham Clinton. That really has a nice ring to it.

... we now return you to your regularly scheduled circle jerk.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #24 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post


President Joe Biden. That has a nice ring to it.
President Nancy Pelosi. That too has a nice ring to it.
President Hillary Rodham Clinton. That really has a nice ring to it.

... we now return you to your regularly scheduled circle jerk.

None of those have a "nice ring" sound but you lose focus here; if in the Sestak matter White House illegality was involved, it doesn't matter over nice or foul ringing; someone has to account. Why? If illegality took place in Sestak job offer, chances are that illegality is taking place on other matters as well. This is not a Republican or Democrat issue but one of transgressions in law.
post #25 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

United States presidential line of succession

President Joe Biden. That has a nice ring to it.
President Nancy Pelosi. That too has a nice ring to it.
President Hillary Rodham Clinton. That really has a nice ring to it.

Thanks for reminding us that, as bad as Obama is, things could easily be quite a bit worse.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #26 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Sestak has repeatedly claimed that he was offered a job to get out of the race.

Prove it.

You know with links to actual quoted words spoken directly by Sestak himself.

So, for instance, was Sestak offered the job of Secretary of the Navy?

I'll assume so for the sake of this circle jerk.

Is that, in and of itself, an impeachable offense?

I'll assume not for the sake of this circle jerk.

Why you ask?

Well the job is offered, Sestek accepts, and he continues to run for the Senate office while serving as the SotN.

So you see a job offer could have been tenured, with no strings attached (implicit and/or explicit), and Sestak is still free to continue to run for the Senate.

See how that works?

Nah, you all are too busy to be bothered, please continue with this circle jerk of a thread.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #27 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=158617

When I initially heard that Sestak may have been offered a job to quit the PA Senate race, I thought that it was typical politics. I thought it was pretty low. I didn't consider that there was actually a law against it:



Section 600:



(emphasis added)


Yes, I know. It's WND, which is not exactly balanced. It quotes Rove and Morris, who have their own political views. I think the issue remains, though. Who offered the position? Who approved the offer? What did the President know, and when did he know it?

... make it appear as if this has not been reported on extensively by the MSM?

I mean it has been reported extensively by the MSM, including MSNBC, on a daily basis, in fact several times a day, on a daily basis.

So I see right through your ruse, your setup, and how one goes about creating a circle jerk of a thread.

1) Link to wingnutian article.
2) Act as if no other news outlets, e. g. the MSM, are reporting on this information.
3) Commencement of circle jerk ensues.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #28 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Other Frank, what is it you think Farah should be jailed for?

Still waiting.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #29 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Still waiting.

For the exact same reason that Obama should be impeached, as put forth, in this circle jerk of a thread.

What reason would that be?

No reason(ing) required.

Ergo circle jerk.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #30 of 88
The thread is speculating on an illegal act possibly committed by members of the Obama admin.

I'm curious to hear what you think this journalist has done that rivals that.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #31 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

The thread is speculating on an illegal act possibly committed by members of the Obama admin.

I'm curious to hear what you think this journalist has done that rivals that.

Keep waiting, I will be shocked if he ever answers your question with anything other than derision at this point.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #32 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Prove it.

You know with links to actual quoted words spoken directly by Sestak himself.

So, for instance, was Sestak offered the job of Secretary of the Navy?

I'll assume so for the sake of this circle jerk.

Is that, in and of itself, an impeachable offense?

I'll assume not for the sake of this circle jerk.

Why you ask?

Well the job is offered, Sestek accepts, and he continues to run for the Senate office while serving as the SotN.

So you see a job offer could have been tenured, with no strings attached (implicit and/or explicit), and Sestak is still free to continue to run for the Senate.

See how that works?

Nah, you all are too busy to be bothered, please continue with this circle jerk of a thread.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/politi...e.html?showall

With Video, he was offered the job, but he is now being evasive on the actual details. Why would he do that do you suppose?

Or even more direct:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW1sH...layer_embedded
Listen from 20 seconds in, he has stated to a direct question that he was offered a job by the administration to drop the senate race.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #33 of 88
New Rule: You can't append the word "gate" to the end of another word in the event of a potential scandal. It's old. It's dumb. It's annoying.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #34 of 88
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Prove it.

Let's stop there. I already did. Did you watch the video. He was asked directly, and he responded "yes." Multiple times.

"Were you ever offered a federal job to get out of this race?"

Sestak: " Yes."


He then repeated that answer and has stuck by it dozens of times since. He claims he has no further comment and that he answered the question "honestly."

How do you reconcile this, Frank?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #35 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Let's stop there. I already did. Did you watch the video. He was asked directly, and he responded "yes." Multiple times.

"Were you ever offered a federal job to get out of this race?"

Sestak: " Yes."


He then repeated that answer and has stuck by it dozens of times since. He claims he has no further comment and that he answered the question "honestly."

How do you reconcile this, Frank?

Stop right there.

No you have not proved it. Not to the point of your opening post. Impeachment.

The offer, whatever the offer actually was, TBD, was apparently tendered in July, Sestak made his official announcement in running for the Senate in August.

AFAIK, no promise was made, a government position was offered per the rule of law.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #36 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

The thread is speculating on an illegal act possibly committed by members of the Obama admin.

I'm curious to hear what you think this journalist has done that rivals that.

Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Showin' how funky and strong is your fight
It doesn't matter who's wrong or right

Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Showin' how funky and strong is your fight
It doesn't matter who's wrong or right

Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Showin' how funky and strong is your fight
It doesn't matter who's wrong or right
Just beat it, beat it
Beat it, beat it, beat it

Beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Showin' how funky and strong is your fight
It doesn't matter who's wrong or who's right

Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Showin' how funky and strong is your fight
It doesn't matter who's wrong or right

Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Showin' how funky and strong is your fight
It doesn't matter who's wrong or right
Just beat it, beat it
Beat it, beat it, beat it

Beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Showin' how funky and strong is your fight
It doesn't matter who's wrong or who's right

Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Showin' how funky and strong is your fight
It doesn't matter who's wrong or right

Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Showin' how funky and strong is your fight
It doesn't matter who's wrong or right

Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Just beat it, beat it
Beat it, beat it, beat it
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #37 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Stop right there.

No you have not proved it. Not to the point of your opening post. Impeachment.

hey look guys! Someone is moving the goal posts!

SDW2001 said:

Quote:
Sestak has repeatedly claimed that he was offered a job to get out of the race.

To which you said:

Quote:
Prove it!


Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

The offer, whatever the offer actually was, TBD, was apparently tendered in July, Sestak made his official announcement in running for the Senate in August.

AFAIK, no promise was made, a government position was offered per the rule of law.

And now you're admitting that some offer was made, but trying to claim that there was nothing untoward about it. Now, it's your turn. Prove it. You have made three specific claims here:
  1. was apparently tendered in July*
  2. no promise was made
  3. a government position was offered per the rule of law

Please provide evidence in support of these three claims.

*The law doesn't appear to require that a person would have officially announced their candidacy in order for a crime to have been committed. The issue was whether or not the offer was made in in exchange for him either dropping out or not running at all.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #38 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

hey look guys! Someone is moving the goal posts!

SDW2001 said:



To which you said:






And now you're admitting that some offer was made, but trying to claim that there was nothing untoward about it. Now, it's your turn. Prove it. You have made three specific claims here:
  1. was apparently tendered in July
  2. no promise was made
  3. a government position was offered per the rule of law
Please provide evidence in support of these three claims.

No, it's you all's circle jerk.

You all need to bone up on the facts.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #39 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

No, it's you all's circle jerk.

You all need to bone up on the facts.

I asked you, politely, to present some facts of your own in support of the claims you've made. Can I take this as an avoidance or evasion because your claims have no basis?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #40 of 88
Wow! The left just acts like children when they can no longer defend their hero or position. Shameful...
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