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Cell Phones, etc and your school - Page 2

post #41 of 59
[quote]When something like that happens in your area, everyone should be sent home. Students shouldn't just whip out their cell phone during class to call mommy if something traumatic happens.<hr></blockquote>

when something like September 11th happens students should just be sent home!? Are you really that dumb? please do not ever take any administrative position.

And how would they get home? Every bridge in NYC was closed. Bus service was stopped. Subway service was stopped. Kids had parents that they needed to contact to get home and to see if they were still alive.

don't be so naive just to back up your point. In the case of emergencies cell phones are priceless. you can't deny that and to say that a teenager will not have any emergency situations to warrant the carrying of a cell phone is very naive.

[quote]
I graduated high school two years ago, but even then plenty of people had cell phones. Hell, even I had kept mine with me. However, if you were caught using it or it rang aloud in class, you were up for in-school suspension. Harsh? You betcha, but I totally agree with the policy. I kept my phone of "vibrate" in my bookbag and had caller ID so I wouldn't have to worry about missing a call and not knowing who it was.<hr></blockquote>

harsh? that's the way it is. what side are you on?

[quote]A 14-year-old with a cell phone is indicative of how rich and spoiled this society is. Kids whine about having to settle for a car that is 5-6 years old, at 16 they drive them while yapping about bullshit on a cell phone.<hr></blockquote>

when is the point reached where owning a cell phone is common and not a sign of being rich and spoiled? was owning a computer a sign of being rich and spoiled 12 years ago? what about a car 90 years ago?

the rich and spoiled arguement is dumb when it comes to technological advancements. it's inevitable that they'll eventually become popular and standard.

[quote]Teenagers are obnoxious and dangerous enough on the road. Giving them a cell phone and a car is like giving them a beer and the keys.<hr></blockquote>

cell phones are banned while driving here in NY State. I guess Texas is behind yet again

[quote]
They're not free, your parents are paying a monthly bill so you can annoy people in public.<hr></blockquote>

1.) I have to call either my father or mother everyday after school. 50 cents each call at a payphone. if I just include weekdays and just that single call it works out to 17.50 a month in payphone charges. now add other times and when you get the answering machine etc and that 29.99 a month cell phone plan and convenience is pretty damn attractive. but I still don't own a cell phone
2.) Many of my friends either split the bill or pay the bill in full with their parents

[quote]
The big deal is this:
They disrupt class. They disrupt social situations. They are as/more dangerous as drinking behind the wheel.<hr></blockquote>
1.) disrupt class only if your school allows them in class and if your school does then it is a bad school
2.) again, handheld cell phones are against the law wile driving in NY State. get your state to pass some legislation.

[quote]
At 15 I was listening to Kurt Cobain sing "Rape Me", at 15 your folks were listening to N'Sync sing "Bye, Bye, Bye".<hr></blockquote>

and I was listening to the Yardbirds, Pearl Jam and Jonny Lang. You're point?

[quote]
I remember 9/11 here in NY, no one get through on their cell phones because every one was using them at the same time. It didn't matter if it was a "real" emergency or not. The system just got overloaded, period. <hr></blockquote>

and so did traditional phone lines. but eventually you got through and if kids did not have cell phones at my school it would have been a disaster getting everyone home and calming everyone down.
post #42 of 59
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>
1.) disrupt class only if your school allows them in class and if your school does then it is a bad school
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Exactly. And a good school policy would allow phones when appropriate (lunch, class change, before/after school) and prohibit them from use during class times.
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post #43 of 59
what do you know, I agree with groverat. . . big surprise. When I was in High School nobody had mobile phones. I don't know what the rules were because nobody had them.

I really don't see why there's any reason for a child to have a cell phone at school. It just like a toy to most of them. Receiving calls and making calls detracts from time that should be spent studiously, just like a toy does.

Emergency? Give me an f'ing break. I have folks in DC and I didn't call them. I knew they were OK. Even so I don't think I would have called if there were a large probablity of danger for them. What good does it do? What happens, happens, and I would have found out eventually. I'm not getting paid to be productive here: there's no imperative for me to keep in touch.

It wouldn't hurt to teach a little bit of mental resiliance in school either, and cell phones just baby the kids that have them by giving them an umbilical cord to parents and friends, etc.

[ 03-27-2002: Message edited by: Splinemodel ]</p>
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post #44 of 59
[quote]
cell phones are banned while driving here in NY State. I guess Texas is behind yet again
<hr></blockquote>

No, Texas is ahead in respect to the bureaucratic BS in the Northeast, but that's another topic.
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post #45 of 59
Lots of stuff directed at me, I'll try and wade through to the main points.

MacsKickAss:

[quote]I would have thought that your political ideology of choice would advocate the personal freedom to have a cell phone.<hr></blockquote>

Hey, I'm not for banning cell phones any more than I am for banning mullets, but I will most certainly ridicule the flaunting of either in public!

My gripe is twofold:
1) They are irritating 99% of the time and useful 1% of the time. Being on a phone in a social setting (even a lunchroom) is rude because people feel obligated to be quiet so you can talk and you are erecting a wall in the space. Ringing during movies, I don't even have to explain. Ringing during class, same case. Ringing in my goddam computer lab while people are trying to work means it's time for Groverat's Nerf Bat of d00m.
2) They reflect the selfish materialism that has always made me sick. Seeing a person yapping on a cell phone while sitting alone in their giant SUV is my anti-christ.

Radar:

[quote]We can agree on that, no?<hr></blockquote>

Absolutely, and because people get beligerent (and they do!) about having to turn their cell phones down or off, they should be barred entirely from classrooms, movie theatres, libraries, etc...

People shouldn't be shooting everyone, that's why we don't allow handguns in schools, because it would still happen even if the rules were to say "You can have a gun, but don't shoot it."

If you have to have your goddam phone at school, keep it in your locker until school is out.

[quote]Distracted from what? Not bumping into a pillar?<hr></blockquote>

I really want to thank you for posting this because it further illustrates my point that young teenagers shouldn't have cell-phones because they're selfish cabbages...
I said, "They'll be distracted in traffic" and you immediately thought, "But it wouldn't affect that one person."

My point was that they will not know what the hell is going on around them and be an obstacle to everyone else. I've seen it happen all the time, it's how it works.

There are other people in the world.

[quote]I can't wait to turn 20 so I will be out of this accursed evil aura associated with all people ages 13-19.<hr></blockquote>

17-19 is usually just fine. 12-14 is terrible and 15-16 is spent in a humiliating phase that makes you a decent person by 17+.

Notice I say "young teens" generally.

The difference between "you" at 15 and "you" at 19 is astounding.

Applenut:

[quote]you can't deny that and to say that a teenager will not have any emergency situations to warrant the carrying of a cell phone is very naive.<hr></blockquote>

Teenagers are far more likely to cause themselves (or *gasp* others *gasp* "Umm, like, there are other people in the world? Totally?") with a cell phone than they are likely to help themselves with one.

How about this... teachers have cell phones for emergencies?

And fine, don't send them home, it doesn't matter. Just because parents are idiotic freaks anytime something big happens doesn't mean every kid should have a custom ringtone cell phone strapped to their face.

"OH MY GOD THE WTC WAS ATTACKED!! i wonder if my kid in school is ok..."

I got that call, and I'm in Austin. I know they're distressed, but let's all take a friggin' xanax and vege out in front of CNN (or FoxNews).

[quote]when is the point reached where owning a cell phone is common and not a sign of being rich and spoiled?<hr></blockquote>

When we have basic social morays that dictate cell phone use policies so they don't interfere with basic social/business/educational interactions.

[quote]was owning a computer a sign of being rich and spoiled 12 years ago?<hr></blockquote>

I don't remember playing Pong on my 386 while driving down the highway at high speeds or it ringing while I was watching E.T.

[quote]what about a car 90 years ago?<hr></blockquote>

Cars are a completely different animal.

[quote]it's inevitable that they'll eventually become popular and standard.<hr></blockquote>

They are popular and standard, yet they are still anti-social. Go figure.

[quote]cell phones are banned while driving here in NY State.<hr></blockquote>

There's a law there?! I guess it doesn't happen then!

Final point:

"I am like all those people I hate."

That will be me when I am finally forced by my employer to have a cell phone. Hopefully it will also be an mp3 player so I won't feel so dirty.
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post #46 of 59
A former boss wanted me to have a cell phone. I declined. I worked very efficiently. Once I was dne I ussually had enough time to surf AI and do my reading for the week. Once I left the office, there was no way those disorganized psychos were going to reach me!

Can your employer really force you to have a cell phone?
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post #47 of 59
No, I don't mean "forced" in the "have one or be fired!" way but actually needing to to keep in contact with many different people.

(Although that sucka will be off when I'm home and the Caller ID is screening for me at home )
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post #48 of 59
[quote]they're selfish cabbages...<hr></blockquote>

ROFL...ahh, I remember being a cabbage! :cool:
post #49 of 59
For those who think that Groverat is being hypocritical, you're not thinking very hard.

Cellular phones are in many ways public goods. They operate in a public medium: airspace and the cellular spectrum. (about 900Mhz). If someone had the ability to own the airspace and the spectrum, then he could decide cell phone policies the way he wanted, but no-one does.

Furthermore, since no one I know uses cell phones on his or her own property, I'd say it's fairly evident that it's a device purely for use in public environments. But the person still gets utility out of it, while distracting -- or endangering -- others. In the world of political-economic policy this is known as the free-rider problem. Let's say a bunch of people live on a street, and it snows. The people on the street pool money to pay for snowplowing, except for one holdout. However, he still benefits from the plowing even though he didn't pay. People who drive in traffic while on the phone exhibit a similar sort of behavior.

Groverat and I believe in personal property. We don't believe in treating other people's property with contempt, either, and thus we think cell phones shouldn't be used gratutitously or in a disrespectful manner.

[ 03-27-2002: Message edited by: Splinemodel ]</p>
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post #50 of 59
[quote]Please read the thread before you roll your eyes next time.<hr></blockquote>

My first sentence was referring to the line about how it wasn't the school's job to keep a student's personal inventory...hopefully that is not what graphiteman was suggesting <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> . Sorry for the lack of clarity.

[quote]People shouldn't be shooting everyone, that's why we don't allow handguns in schools, because it would still happen even if the rules were to say "You can have a gun, but don't shoot it."<hr></blockquote>

I think this analogy is partially flawed, because guns don't have any point period on school grounds, but cell phones do have a legitamite purpose for the uses illustrated earlier by EmAn, anut and myself. You see, banning cell phones from class makes sense (well, I think banning the use of cell phones during class...i.e. they should be off), but not from all school grounds.

[quote]I said, "They'll be distracted in traffic" and you immediately thought, "But it wouldn't affect that one person."<hr></blockquote>

No, I also thought about those poor pillars.
.

I didn't know what you thought people might be distracted from...obstacles (people included) or something else. I appreciate your interest in my thought process, but I believe you are mistaken.

[quote]17-19 is usually just fine. 12-14 is terrible and 15-16 is spent in a humiliating phase that makes you a decent person by 17+.<hr></blockquote>

Hmm...I disagree. From my observations, the tension between my sister and the rest of the world has steadily grown in the last five years to a point right now where it is unbearable. Hopefully, soon things will ease.
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post #51 of 59
[quote]I think this analogy is partially flawed, because guns don't have any point period on school grounds<hr></blockquote>

I will disagree. There are hundreds (thousands?) on school grounds that need protection from postal students and other assorted psychotics.

[quote]You see, banning cell phones from class makes sense (well, I think banning the use of cell phones during class...i.e. they should be off), but not from all school grounds.<hr></blockquote>

Then I think we don't disagree on anything, since I've said repeatedly that the brats should keep them in the locker at basically all times, which implies that they have them in the first place.

[quote]No, I also thought about those poor pillars.<hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

Good one.

[quote]I didn't know what you thought people might be distracted from...obstacles (people included) or something else. I appreciate your interest in my thought process, but I believe you are mistaken.<hr></blockquote>

If someone is talking on a cell phone they aren't paying proper attention to the world around them, it's a proven fact. Now, put that person in a crowded hall of people trying to get to class... see what I'm getting at?

[quote]From my observations, the tension between my sister and the rest of the world has steadily grown in the last five years to a point right now where it is unbearable.<hr></blockquote>

It's the cell phones. If you both shun cell phones you'll gain instant love for each other.

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post #52 of 59
To address the issue of having a cell phone for emergencies:

Give me a break. Emergencies on the side of the road, etc. are one thing. What many of you imply is that emergencies happen to you on a fairly regular basis...at school.

I think probably a better way to describe them are "pseudo-crises," when Johnny breaks up with Suzie, and then Suzie IMMEDIATELY must call her friend Lisa to cry, complain, whine, etc.

Or how about when after school and faced with no homework, Donald must call his friend Steve to arrange an afternoon of XBox?

Yeah, those are emergencies all right.

p.s. In the five years I've had my cell phone, I've had genuine emergencies happen to me *maybe* 10 times. And that's really stretching it.
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post #53 of 59
Ever notice that it's the perents of the kids with phones who will be the first to complain if the school/school district attempts to get extra income by having a celphone mast in the school grounds or on the roof.
It's real simple. More phones = more masts. If evry kid in the school "neads" a phone, then the best place for the mast is near all those phones.

What's more likely to be dagerous anyway something on a mast 100 foot in the air, or the thing stuck to the side of your head.

[ 03-28-2002: Message edited by: Mediaman ]</p>
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post #54 of 59
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by radar1503:
<strong>
My first sentence was referring to the line about how it wasn't the school's job to keep a student's personal inventory...hopefully that is not what graphiteman was suggesting . <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> Sorry for the lack of clarity.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I was suggesting the exact opposite; when a student gets a waiver to use a phone during designated times (signed by parents), he/she must agree that the school *cannot be held liable* for anything that happens to it, including loss, damage, etc.
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post #55 of 59
[quote]Originally posted by graphiteman:
<strong>

I was suggesting the exact opposite; when a student gets a waiver to use a phone during designated times (signed by parents), he/she must agree that the school *cannot be held liable* for anything that happens to it, including loss, damage, etc.</strong><hr></blockquote>

My only complaint about this is that these basic understandings should be implicit. I don't see a reason to confuse things more thoroughly by adding signed waivers. A school doesn't have the luxury of allowing detailed rules. They have to be simple, for policing students with a skeleton faculty is not easy, nor should standard school faculty be reduced to checking whether or not kid A has a waiver. It's a waste of the teacher's time, and thus is disadvantages the other students.

Cell phones should be kept off. I don't give a damn where students keep them, but if the student is caught using the phone, some very basic, no-exceptions punishment should follow. (unless it's serious, but this is exceedingly rare, and can easily be dealt with)
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post #56 of 59
[quote]Originally posted by CosmoNut:
<strong>
I think probably a better way to describe them are "pseudo-crises," when Johnny breaks up with Suzie, and then Suzie IMMEDIATELY must call her friend Lisa to cry, complain, whine, etc.

Or how about when after school and faced with no homework, Donald must call his friend Steve to arrange an afternoon of XBox?

Yeah, those are emergencies all right.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Do you guys really think stuff like that happens on a regular basis? I have never once seen anything like that. I'm sure it happens from time to time, but not always.
post #57 of 59
[quote]Originally posted by EmAn:
<strong>

Do you guys really think stuff like that happens on a regular basis? I have never once seen anything like that. I'm sure it happens from time to time, but not always.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Stuff like what? Breaking up with X and calling Y to complain? Or a true emergency? (I am not trying to be snotty here, I am not sure which you were referring to)

I really can't think of an emergency that would warrant a kid to have a cell phone active during school hours. The teacher, maybe. (I believe that the police were called by teachers using cell phones at Columbine and at the JCC in Granada Hills) What emergency situation would warrant it for a kid? Another Columbine? Sure, you need 500 students trying to dial (a) home, jamming the airwaves to call Mom and Dad, or (b) 911, which is so overloaded as it is you can barely get through. A kidnapping? Well, if you were lucky enough to be tossed in the trunk of the kidnappers car without them searching you or restraining you, and you were able to note the make, model, year, license plate and direction the car was travelling in, I guess it would help. Fire? There are alarms all over school. Break glass, pull lever is going to get to the local fire house a lot faster than dialling 911 and having them route it. Earthquake? I think the authorities will know.

The argument that carrying a cell phone for emergencies while in school is about as valid as carrying a fully inflated life raft in case of flooding.

And yes, I do have a cell phone.

[ 03-28-2002: Message edited by: tmp ]</p>
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post #58 of 59
[quote]Originally posted by tmp:
<strong>


Stuff like what? Breaking up with X and calling Y to complain? Or a true emergency? (I am not trying to be snotty here, I am not sure which you were referring to)
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, the breaking up call. Also, the call to plan a meeting to play X Box which was previously posted.
post #59 of 59
The "breakup" and "XBox" example were just two of the many petty things that most high-schoolers say they need a cell phone for. I'll name a few more just to clarify.
  • So it's Friday night, let's go to the movies.
  • Y wants to go to the *fill in the event* with Z. Many consultations, inner struggle, further consultations, the question, the answer, and jubilation/depression ensue.
  • It's Saturday afternoon. Now let's go to the mall.
  • I'm at a stupid event with my parents. Now there's a break. Time to call *fill in the blank.*
  • Damn lunch was nasty! Good reason to call my friend.
  • Dude, I need to check out the latest gadget at Circuit City. Time to call *fill in the geek*.
  • I'm at work and on my lunch break. I am too codependent to eat by myself. I must call *whoever* for company and chatting.

There's more if you want me to go on. As I stated before, many of you may think cell phones are so important now, but there WILL come a time when you won't want to answer it anymore. You will appreciate those times where you can talk to a person in person, or separate yourself from any and all technology for a while (save your fancy Fossil watch).
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