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New cloud-based Apple TV to cost $99, run on iPhone OS 4 - Page 4

post #121 of 258
I have been holding off on an Apple TV waiting for a refresh so I welcome this. At $99 dollars I can forgive it for whatever it can't do. I assume there will be a list of things it can't do (flash Hulu) compared to a more expensive Mac Mini home theatre.

As far as 1080 vs 720, I have Fios which broadcasts in 720 and a Blu Ray player for the 1080 and both look great to my bifocal clad eyes. I like older movies anyway and HD shows the grain.

I really like the concept of streaming instead of buying. Keep all movies and TV shows up in the cloud and let me pay as I go, or subscribe.

Looks like a winner if the content providers are happy and have their assurances met regarding piracy protection. But Apple needs to advertise this product. Most people I know are not even aware of the existence of the Apple TV.
post #122 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by reliason View Post

Just some thoughts.

1.) This will probably have a camera. As a companion product to the video conferencing iPhone.
2.) App store has netflix. This device would run iPhone OS...
2a.) Netflix now supports iPad video adapter.
3.) It will have 802.11n and bluetooth using same chipset as iPad.
4.) Will probably support connectivity to iPhone/iPod Touch for remote wifi or bluetooth.
5.) I doubt it will stream 1080p. That seems over the top.
6.) Will not have blue-ray. Apple will never have Blue-ray. Blue-ray is a dead medium, long term. Streaming will replace it completely in the future.

Agree with all, plus one more - as a iPhone OS device, it would be able to store and run iPhone Apps, especially multi-player games. Although there might be a new cheaper $49 controller/remote, existing iPhones, iPod touch, and iPads could also serve as controllers.
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post #123 of 258
Dream come true. Except I don't want it to be an iPhone without a screen and it would be nice to have at least 16GB of internal storage. Other then that it's the Apple TV I've been waiting for.
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post #124 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

The point of that thread is there are a handful of software-based limitations of the iPad that severely limit its potential market; how well its currently selling within its limited market is rather irrelevant, as eventually sales will level off unless Apple addresses said software limitations. Multitasking is on the way, and like you said printing will probably come too.

That is, I am sorry to say, a clueless comment on at least three fronts.

(i) You have absolutely no clue about the 'potential' market. What is your benchmark (and why)? What is your forecast of the 'potential'? 5M? 50M? 500M? What's your model? (ii) How well an electronics product is selling at introduction is not correlated with (you went even further, calling it "irrelevant" to) how it does subsequently? Can you name a couple of examples of significance? (I am sure we could easily name a dozen where the two are indeed highly correlated). (iii) It is silly and vacuous to make statement based on the implicit premise that Apple will do nothing to address software 'limitations' (your word). There is nothing that Apple has created where its companion software has stood frozen at what it was when intro'ed.
post #125 of 258
If I turn of my AppleTV, how will I heat my house?!?
post #126 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

Agree with all, plus one more - as a iPhone OS device, it would be able to store and run iPhone Apps, especially multi-player games. Although there might be a new cheaper $49 controller/remote, existing iPhones, iPod touch, and iPads could also serve as controllers.

Genius, pure genius.
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post #127 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLoveStuff View Post

If I turn of my AppleTV, how will I heat my house?!?

Get a Nexus One and run Flash videos on it.
post #128 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLoveStuff View Post

If I turn of my AppleTV, how will I heat my house?!?

Tekstud, are you back!? (Please tell me I am only having a bad flashback......)
post #129 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

As you can see I immediately changed my feeling on the whole ebay issue and edited my post... I too am an admitted Apple horde... I have a few cubes (I think), a PPC laptop or 2... one or two old PPC powermac towers and a box-o-crap filled with ADB cables, Farallon phone-net connectors and assorted paraphernalia... I even have... GET THIS... A nubus QUICKTIME accelerator card (well the box for it anyway) that I just spotted in the attic. I saw it and said CRAP I gotta start throwing this stuff out!

Nubus QuickTime Accelerator ... ha!
I have a Nubus JPEG Compression card Take that!
Plus the original set of Microsoft Office disks ... and I mean for Mac! 1985 ... Word, Multiplan, File and one I can't remember lol, will have to climb in the attic.
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
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post #130 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Tekstud, are you back!? (Please tell me I am only having a bad flashback......)

Hate to even slightly agree if it is him ... but I can fry eggs on mine :
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
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post #131 of 258
I've been anxiously waiting for a good reason.. or reasons... to purchase an Apple TV and now - I'm sold! When will they be available???
post #132 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Same in Canada. But that's not for services like BES where they are installing fibre. That's my point. You can Bell ExpressVu which is satellite or Rogers cable and not subscribe to Bell DSL or Rogers cable internet. However, when it comes to services like fibre they seem to be going to an all or nothing package. You want the speeds that come with fibre? Then you get the IPTV service too.

Is Comcast fibre or is it just conventional satellite/cable?



Comcast is still coax to the house in most areas i believe, including mine - but fiber to the node. where i am at is all DOCSIS 3, so they are selling 50/10 service. i have 20/5 for the $55 price.
post #133 of 258
I don't think you're even reading what I wrote so I'm going to stop after this but for one last time:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

... The current Apple TV is great but hardly a resounding sales success for Apple ... if it remains an iTunes portal, it won't sell well, even if it's $100. And really, is it that hard to comprehend this point? ...

You're the one missing *my* point.

- It *is* already a "sales success" for Apple (they wouldn't keep carrying it if it wasn't).
- It already "sells well."

Your argument (or the other guy that you are defending for some reason), is more that it won't take over the world and become the dominant player in the game or some such. That's a different thing entirely. It's not fair to phrase that argument as "it will be a hard sell." Judging by the sales and performance and customer satisfaction of the current model, it's easy to see how reducing the price by 60% and adding a bunch of features will instead make it rather an easy sale.

Market penetration and overall product dominance is another thing altogether.
post #134 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandor View Post

Comcast is still coax to the house in most areas i believe, including mine - but fiber to the node. where i am at is all DOCSIS 3, so they are selling 50/10 service. i have 20/5 for the $55 price.

Fair enough. You better hope though that cable cos. don't go this route of making bundles mandatory. I could see them doing that. Since they can upsell their fibre services as premium offerings.
post #135 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Hate to even slightly agree if it is him ... but I can fry eggs on mine :

Yes, I agree that's true on mine too...
post #136 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Fair enough. You better hope though that cable cos. don't go this route of making bundles mandatory. I could see them doing that. Since they can upsell their fibre services as premium offerings.

definitely. heck, the extra $8 a month or whatever comcast charges for HD services still gets me agitated - all those companies love to nickel and dime the consumer...
post #137 of 258
So, here's my question of the day... If Eric Schmidt had used his inside knowledge of Apple's plans as a former Apple board member to pass onto Google for a competitive advantage, couldn't he face an IP theft lawsuit?

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post #138 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I don't think you're even reading what I wrote so I'm going to stop after this but for one last time: You're the one missing *my* point.

- It *is* already a "sales success" for Apple (they wouldn't keep carrying it if it wasn't).
- It already "sells well."

Your argument (or the other guy that you are defending for some reason), is more that it won't take over the world and become the dominant player in the game or some such. That's a different thing entirely.

Fair enough. Definitions of success can vary. Though I would dispute the fact that simply carrying a product means sales success. I am sure Apple keeps Apple TV on its shelves because it makes them money. But I am skeptical it's as valuable a product to them as most of the other stuff they carry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

It's not fair to phrase that argument as "it will be a hard sell." Judging by the sales and performance and customer satisfaction of the current model, it's easy to see how reducing the price by 60% and adding a bunch of features will instead make it rather an easy sale.

This is where I find you're reaching. Keep in mind that we're now talking about the entire TV watching audience (if we're talking streaming content) as opposed to those who want an accessory to get their iTunes stuff on a bigger screen. Whatever new features they add will be scarcely make a dent in the mass market appeal of Apple TV if it doesn't help you, ya know, watch TV (the way non-Apple fans define that activity).

Anyway, I am sure we'll have lots to debate once we actually see what Apple offers...I am just hoping it's got subscriptions. That's what I think will be the real gamechanger.
post #139 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Ouch.

+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

That is, I am sorry to say, a clueless comment on at least three fronts.

(i) You have absolutely no clue about the 'potential' market. What is your benchmark (and why)? What is your forecast of the 'potential'? 5M? 50M? 500M? What's your model? (ii) How well an electronics product is selling at introduction is not correlated with (you went even further, calling it "irrelevant" to) how it does subsequently? Can you name a couple of examples of significance? (I am sure we could easily name a dozen where the two are indeed highly correlated). (iii) It is silly and vacuous to make statement based on the implicit premise that Apple will do nothing to address software 'limitations' (your word). There is nothing that Apple has created where its companion software has stood frozen at what it was when intro'ed.

\ So before I can point out that the iPad has a limited market reach and the reasons why, first I have to forcast sales figures and define what quantity would be a successful figure? I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was on the Piper Jaffray forum.

And why do you assume I believe the iPad's software wont advance, just because I point out what advancements would be necessary to broaden it's market?
post #140 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezetation View Post

I don't put any credit into this, Apple has been very stubbornly against the 100% cloud approach because the internet just isn't there & won't be fore some time. Many people can't afford the ridiculous prices of cable internet & with wireless broadband capped at 5GB per month the concept of an all cloud based TV would be a flop. It also doesn't fit at all with the current model of iPhone OS and would require a severe re-tooling of it.

I think it's far more likely that Apple would release iPhone OS for ATV (with upgrade pricing for current ATVs) to allow ATV users to take advantage of apps & the web.

This is a bogus story, I don't buy any of it.

I have to agree with this, at least considering how the story is presented. To be honest, I was scrolling through because I thought Solipsism would be the one to call foul, but it seems he's (she's?) bought in as well.

It just doesn't seem quite right. There are a lot of people who wouldn't be able to take advantage of this because of the limits of their internet providers, and for Apple to aim only at those who have the right services would limit their market too far.

I could see them adding streaming video to AppleTV and possibly including apps, but I think they have to keep the syncing and local storage as well. If they did that, and kept the HD size at least at the previous 40GB minimum, I'll be looking at one when I upgrade to an HDTV. Otherwise, I think the streaming will be too slow or not actually high quality, or we'll constantly be running out of monthly bandwidth and paying excessive fees.
post #141 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

So, here's my question of the day... If Eric Schmidt had used his inside knowledge of Apple's plans as a former Apple board member to pass onto Google for a competitive advantage, couldn't he face an IP theft lawsuit?

Well, he could possibly face some sort of lawsuit, although, even though I discussed IP theft in relation to Google's Books program, just taking the ideas, and not the implementation details back to teams at Google probably wouldn't count as IP theft, since at the boardroom level they probably aren't discussed in a patentable level of detail. Whether Apple would think it worth and (the exact grounds) I'm not sure.

But, I think it's naive to think that he wasn't taking Apple ideas and plans back to Google and setting teams to work on parallel projects. Even if it wasn't illegal or actionable, it's certainly unethical behavior.
post #142 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

When this article said that they got a tip from someone who is very close to Apple, and that the tipster said it was like "an iPhone without a screen", did anyone else think Kevin Rose was behind this?

It just sounds like something Kevin would say and then be completely wrong about. Kindof like when he claimed the original iPhone would have dual batteries a slide-out keyboard and start at $249. Man, what was he smoking? This leak smells like Kevin Rose.

I'm just sayin'

What?! I'm Kevin Rose and my iPhone has dual batteries and a slide-out keyboard... Does it means it's a fake?
post #143 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by LighteningKid View Post

I have to agree with this, at least considering how the story is presented. To be honest, I was scrolling through because I thought Solipsism would be the one to call foul, but it seems he's (she's?) bought in as well.

It just doesn't seem quite right. There are a lot of people who wouldn't be able to take advantage of this because of the limits of their internet providers, and for Apple to aim only at those who have the right services would limit their market too far.

I could see them adding streaming video to AppleTV and possibly including apps, but I think they have to keep the syncing and local storage as well. If they did that, and kept the HD size at least at the previous 40GB minimum, I'll be looking at one when I upgrade to an HDTV. Otherwise, I think the streaming will be too slow or not actually high quality, or we'll constantly be running out of monthly bandwidth and paying excessive fees.

Well, see JeffDM's comments regarding using local computers as the "cloud". (Or possibly local storage generally) It's a rumor, so, even if there's some degree of truth, some of the details are likely to be off at least a bit.
post #144 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

\ (i) So before I can point out that the iPad has a limited market reach and the reasons why, first I have to forcast sales figures and define what quantity would be a successful figure? (ii) I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was on the Piper Jaffray forum.

(iii) And why do you assume I believe the iPad's software wont advance, just because I point out what advancements would be necessary to broaden it's market?

(i) Yes. My question was simple: what is 'successful' -- 5M, 50M, 500M? (For instance, could you compare it to how many netbooks sold last year, across all makers and markets?).

(ii) No, you're not. But it would be clearer if you could back up your claims and assertions with some attempt at analysis or benchmarks (or something), or it's unclear what you mean.

(iii) As I said, it is a vacuous statement, since there is no product for which Apple has not done that. In other words, it is a moot point.

and, btw....

(iv) You did not address the second point that I made in response to your previous comment (you should not cherry-pick). Specifically, it had to do with the link of success at intro to subsequent market success (you claimed that success at intro was 'irrelevant' and I asked you for some examples).
post #145 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

So, here's my question of the day... If Eric Schmidt had used his inside knowledge of Apple's plans as a former Apple board member to pass onto Google for a competitive advantage, couldn't he face an IP theft lawsuit?

Can you explain what IP is involved?

I know it's popular in these parts to view Google as evil and Schmidt as the devil but in this case, I fail to see what exactly Google could have gained that simply was not obvious like building an OS for cable boxes that has search built in. To me it would seem an obvious extension of Google's capabilities. They have an OS that's been slapped on to a car infotainment system. Why is it that out of the realm of possibilities to see a possible application for Android in the world of cable boxes, TVs and Blu-Ray players? Those same companies are already using the same OS to build smartphones and other devices so presumably they can understand how and where that OS can be deployed.

Can you show what's being copied other than the mere idea of a company offering its mobile operating system with some kind of device that lets you consume media on a screen? Does Apple have a patent on 'mobile operating system in a box to let you watch TV'?
post #146 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by LighteningKid View Post

I could see them adding streaming video to AppleTV and possibly including apps, but I think they have to keep the syncing and local storage as well. If they did that, and kept the HD size at least at the previous 40GB minimum, I'll be looking at one when I upgrade to an HDTV. Otherwise, I think the streaming will be too slow or not actually high quality, or we'll constantly be running out of monthly bandwidth and paying excessive fees.

I have an AppleTV and its HDD is not really used. All the Movies and TV shows I have bought live on my iMac (it spends most of the time asleep, automatically waking up when I want to watch something) and are streamed to the AppleTV. All the harddrive in the AppleTV does is increase the cost of the device.

For people with laptops I can understand wanting local storage but you are probably better off with an enhanced Time Capsule (preferably with multiple drives and data duplication) that can back up your computer and stream media to all the devices on your home network.
post #147 of 258
If it accepts my D-Link NAS that works as a ITunes server too and I can plug in a real network cable - have 1Gb network in my house - I'm sold.
Waited for this device for 2 years.
post #148 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Can you explain what IP is involved?

I know it's popular in these parts to view Google as evil and Schmidt as the devil but in this case, I fail to see what exactly Google could have gained that simply was not obvious like building an OS for cable boxes that has search built in. To me it would seem an obvious extension of Google's capabilities. They have an OS that's been slapped on to a car infotainment system. Why is that out of the realm to see application in the realm of cable boxes, TVs and Blu-Ray players?

Can you show what's being copied other than the mere idea of a company offering its operating system with some kind of device that lets you consume media on a screen? Does Apple have a patent on 'operating system in a box to let you watch TV'?

As indicated above, there's an ethical issue involved, even if not a legal issue. Can we expect Google to behave ethically if its leadership does not?
post #149 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwarriorpoet View Post

I am worried that it is yet another way for Apple to fight off adopting Blu-Ray. I stream Netflix on my PS3 and play Blu-Ray discs. Until Apple supports Blu-ray on its laptops (which I could then hook up to my TV---or simply watch when I am mobile), I won't nibble at Apple TV.

Then you might as well just jump ship and move to a different platform becasue it AIN'T gonna happen. In fact, if this rumor is true, I would expect another Steve Jobs manifesto to appear shortly, declaring the death of Blu-ray at the hands of the the cloud. Declaring you won't buy an Apple TV or Laptop without Blu-ray is using exactly the same reason people gave for declaring they wouldn't buy the first iMac because it didn't have a floppy disk drive. What was that new USB gizmo for anyway?
post #150 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandor View Post

not if google v. viacom is any indication. a guaranteed $500 million couldn't buy google/youtube the content it wanted. content owners are *very* wary of Apple at the moment, and have been since the inception of the iTunes Music Store.

Yea... I can see their point better to keep locked up aging episodes of MASH, Seinfeld and such then to make a deal with Apple to offer their content to people WILLING to pay them. Yea maybe its better that those otherwise willing to pay customers to one day stumble onto a never ending fountain of no-cost full quality versions of EVERYTHING hollywood has ever done AND even some stuff that isn't even in the theaters yet.

Yea, I can see that... The 'per episode' price of MASH is gonna SKYROCKET one day... just you wait and see!
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post #151 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

As indicated above, there's an ethical issue involved, even if not a legal issue. Can we expect Google to behave ethically if its leadership does not?

SpamSandwich was talking about legal action, not just the ethics of the situation. And pray tell what's the ethical issue? Do you have evidence that the Apple board was discussing Apple TV and Schmidt didn't excuse himself from those discussions?...well that would be a legal issue too. But what's the ethical issue here (especially as pertains to next gen Apple TV)? Spell it out for me, please.
post #152 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Then you might as well just jump ship and move to a different platform becasue it AIN'T gonna happen. In fact, if this rumor is true, I would expect another Steve Jobs manifesto to appear shortly, declaring the death of Blu-ray at the hands of the the cloud. Declaring you won't buy an Apple TV or Laptop without Blu-ray is using exactly the same reason people gave for declaring they wouldn't buy the first iMac because it didn't have a floppy disk drive. What was that new USB gizmo for anyway?

Except that Blu-Ray on laptops makes sense because the slot is already there. This is just DVD 2.0. If Apple's going to have the a DVD drive on there anyway, why not offer Blu-Ray?
post #153 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandor View Post

not if google v. viacom is any indication. a guaranteed $500 million couldn't buy google/youtube the content it wanted.

content owners are *very* wary of Apple at the moment, and have been since the inception of the iTunes Music Store.

The only reason they are weary is because they saw Apple strongarm the music studios into the .99 pricing model.

Everybody's got a price. If Apple shows the contents owners that Apple can make them more money they'll cave. What that price is, we don't know. Obviously, even 500 million was too low for Viacom. Maybe they should have offered a billion?
post #154 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Except that Blu-Ray on laptops makes sense because the slot is already there. This is just DVD 2.0. If Apple's going to have the a DVD drive on there anyway, why not offer Blu-Ray?

Do you realize how much more a 9.5mm ultra-slim slot-loading Blu-ray drive would cost? Apple isn't a "me too" company so adding it just to claim they have it knowing that adoption would slim is pointless.

The adoption and use of Blu-ray in PCs is already low enough for machines that use the cheap full-size tray-loading BRDs. Then there are all other drawbacks to optical media in general and Apple's focus on streaming that tells me that Apple has no intention of pushing this great for the HEC but awful for the PC media format to their notebooks. It does nothing but hold Apple back.
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post #155 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Except that Blu-Ray on laptops makes sense because the slot is already there. This is just DVD 2.0. If Apple's going to have the a DVD drive on there anyway, why not offer Blu-Ray?

I'd be fine with them ditching the optical drive completely, especially on laptops.
post #156 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

SpamSandwich was talking about legal action, not just the ethics of the situation. And pray tell what's the ethical issue? Do you have evidence that the Apple board was discussing Apple TV and Schmidt didn't excuse himself from those discussions?...well that would be a legal issue too. But what's the ethical issue here (especially as pertains to next gen Apple TV)? Spell it out for me, please.

Already spelled out for you previously:

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

... But, I think it's naive to think that he wasn't taking Apple ideas and plans back to Google and setting teams to work on parallel projects. Even if it wasn't illegal or actionable, it's certainly unethical behavior.
post #157 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

The only reason they are weary is because they saw Apple strongarm the music studios into the .99 pricing model.

Everybody's got a price. If Apple shows the contents owners that Apple can make them more money they'll cave. What that price is, we don't know. Obviously, even 500 million was too low for Viacom. Maybe they should have offered a billion?

Apple already lost the first big battle with the living room against the content holders. just look at the unusual TV history. A lot has changed on every front since Autumn 2006. They have a lot more than the Disney umbrella in the iTS. I don't think Apple would be releasing another TV unless they have sufficiently made the proper deals.
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post #158 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

Agreed. I think, the obvious answer though, is iPod Touch/iPhone/iPad.

This is the answer I often hear; but I am not convinced that an iPod touch/iPhone would make a good controller for Apps running on the AppleTV.

The iPod touch/iPhone has no buttons. There is no tactile feed back. You'd have to look away from the TV and focus on your iPod touch/iPhone to see what you are about to select. For example, imagine an action game on your AppleTV where every time a bad guy comes along you need to look down to make certain you hit Shoot instead of Jump. It would be a poor experience.
post #159 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Already spelled out for you previously:

And that's just a very reaching guess. Again I ask. If Android is being slapped onto everything from refigerators to smart phones to cars, why is it suddenly an unobvious idea that got copied from Apple, to put it on to TVs? And this is even assuming that he was vaguely aware that a revamped Apple TV was in the works. You have zero proof that such an assertion was true.

And by the way if he was taking Apple's plans and ideas back to Google and getting his minions to work on them, that would just be unethical. It would be illegal and I am fairly sure Apple would have sent out its full legal team after him.
post #160 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

I have an AppleTV and its HDD is not really used. All the Movies and TV shows I have bought live on my iMac (it spends most of the time asleep, automatically waking up when I want to watch something) and are streamed to the AppleTV. All the harddrive in the AppleTV does is increase the cost of the device.

For people with laptops I can understand wanting local storage but you are probably better off with an enhanced Time Capsule (preferably with multiple drives and data duplication) that can back up your computer and stream media to all the devices on your home network.

Really? And you find your router to be fast enough to keep the stream at high quality? Do you think it would keep up to 1080p, while someone else in the house is using the internet, etc.? Hmm... I certainly wouldn't mind being proven wrong here.
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