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New cloud-based Apple TV to cost $99, run on iPhone OS 4 - Page 2

post #41 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I have a Samsung with internet features built-in. It is clunky.

But it's free. People will be hard pressed to spend even $100 on a device whose main function is a storefront for renting and buying content.
post #42 of 258
Be still, my beating heart.......

This is just the beginning of what is going to be another -- and perhaps the ultimate -- game-changer.
post #43 of 258
If it has all the internals and operating system of an iphone, could it be used as a game controller or interface ? I know there would be no screen, and it will be wired to the video screen and power supply, but could it have a bluetooth to allow interface to a controller or itouch. It would receive steam based games on line ( I know, wrong operating system), or have a game app on board.

Or is this just an obvious extension of this sort of hardware layout?
post #44 of 258
With the iPad, Apple's proven that iPhone OS is the right operating system for a device like this. This makes total sense. Plus, there have been whispers of a cloud-based iTunes for some time now. I'd expect this to launch at the same time (or at least not sooner than) the new iTunes Store.

As for apps, iPhone/iPad apps can't run on this device because the hardware is too different (no touchscreen, accelerometer, etc). The iPhone SDK, however, would make a great development platform for Apple TV apps. It would be awesome if there were an App Store for Apple TV to bring more streaming content to the platform, but I'm not sure if Apple would embrace that kind of openness as it would compete with the iTunes Store.

Then again, Netflix and ABC run on iPad, and those both compete with iTunes in the same way, so what do I know?
post #45 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

... how is that really better than a small little box and a short cord.

Less dusting?
post #46 of 258
This is very exciting...

First the device sounds like something I've been waiting for... However, the more interesting thing that people aren't talking about is this... Is this a sign that Apple has some meaningful deals with the studios? Unless things have changed.... While the iTunes movie store is 'okay' its mostly filled with DVD priced offerings in 720p quality and with less than stellar audio support. Certainly no 5.1 or 7.2... It's 2010 and OS X still doesn't do acceptable HT audio.

Is this about to change? I sure hope so... because it's not like Apple (Steve) to roll out a device that supports 1080p without them having any 1080p content to offer.

Wow.. exciting times ahead... and why am I constantly telling myself to RELAX and not expect to hear about this at WWDC.
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post #47 of 258
If this is true, I'm 100% sure Apple TV will also be an iPhone app, just like iPod.
post #48 of 258
If part of that cloud is my NAS, I'm all for it. This is feeling like a netflix-type appliance.
post #49 of 258
Just some thoughts.

1.) This will probably have a camera. As a companion product to the video conferencing iPhone.
2.) App store has netflix. This device would run iPhone OS...
2a.) Netflix now supports iPad video adapter.
3.) It will have 802.11n and bluetooth using same chipset as iPad.
4.) Will probably support connectivity to iPhone/iPod Touch for remote wifi or bluetooth.
5.) I doubt it will stream 1080p. That seems over the top.
6.) Will not have blue-ray. Apple will never have Blue-ray. Blue-ray is a dead medium, long term. Streaming will replace it completely in the future.
post #50 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

But it's free. People will be hard pressed to spend even $100 on a device whose main function is a storefront for renting and buying content.

The biggest reason the iPad can't sell like hotcakes

Your predictions on what people will buy seem to be a little shaky. Based on later posts, even you bought an iPad.
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post #51 of 258
Well, if you look at product hardware updates, Apple seems to do major overhauls around the 4th generation of every device:

iPod Gen4 = Color display and introduced the Mini
iPod Nano Gen4 = Camera

Iphone Gen4 = Prabaly just aesthetic look and OS4, but could have video chat like predicted.

This will be the Gen4 for ATV and usually goes on a 3-4 year period, so 2011 might be the year of the ATV!!! Plus they've been slowly introducing larger format versions of the iOS over the past 9 years. I would expect to see this on the shelves for the 10th annaversary of the iDevices...probably with a full refresh of every i-product, excluding the iPhone, which will probably get it's full refresh this year.
post #52 of 258
YES!!!! Been waiting for this! Sounds like an awesome direction for the AppleTV!
post #53 of 258
What has always seemed to me to be a logical extension of the AppleTV functionality is to allow it to control your lights and appliances in your house. It has to be plugged into the wall in the first place.
post #54 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

The biggest reason the iPad can't sell like hotcakes

Your predictions on what people will buy seem to be a little shaky. Based on later posts, even you bought an iPad.

I completely agree with Cory's previous post on the iPad...yeah, it's selling really well, but i think that if what Cory wants (as do i) in future iPad (a standalone device) doesn't come to fruition soon, like in the Gen2 or Gen4, then sales will be flat for the next couple years. the people that buy new ones will be either previous iPad owners wanting to blow another 800 bucks for the latest and greatest or people (like me) who are finally giving in (which i haven't on the Apple TV yet)...mainly because we want one and don't see anything more compelling (i.e. settling for now).
post #55 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

So no OS update to existing hardware possible ??

I know, it isn't powerful enough but what about a dumbed down 720P version of the OS?

Other than that I hope it is all true, this will add even more to AAPL I am sure.

As the owner of 2 Apple TVs ... I feel your pain.. however given this price point (if its true) why would you hold on to the Apple TV if you could get a turbo-charged monster such as what is described above for less than it cost for a month of a deluxe cable tv package + internet or 5 bluray movies?

Not too sure I'll be posting my ATVs up on ebay given this one lone rumor but I sure hope I'm not a sucker for not jumping now while I had the chance.
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post #56 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

The biggest reason the iPad can't sell like hotcakes

Your predictions on what people will buy seem to be a little shaky. Based on later posts, even you bought an iPad.

Even when I wrote that, I intended to purchase an iPad for myself. And everything I wrote still stands; if it did all of those things I mentioned, it would increase their market exponentially. Markets which I am not part of, which is why those points I made have nothing to do with my buying needs.
post #57 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

As the owner of 2 Apple TVs ... I feel your pain.. however given this price point (if its true) why would you hold on to the Apple TV if you could get a turbo-charged monster such as what is described above for less than it cost for a month of a deluxe cable tv package + internet or 5 bluray movies?

I think I'll post my ATVs now and try and avoid the rush (probably too late).

Yep Dave, I know you are right about selling, I just horde Apple stuff

I have working. Apple ][s, ///s Mac Plus , SE 30, G4s, iMac (original models) and so on .. (my wife is on ultimatum #2089 to get rid of all but current stuff).

As we are about to downscale for retirement I will have to have a yard sale with permission of Apple for a temporary dealers permit
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post #58 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

The price is entirely possible given 3Gs will be $97 at Walmart soon if I remember correctly.

Not "soon" it is already - was on their website 2-3 days ago.
post #59 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Even when I wrote that, I intended to purchase an iPad for myself. And everything I wrote still stands; if it did all of those things I mentioned, it would increase their market exponentially. Markets which I am not part of, which is why those points I made have nothing to do with my buying needs.

Fair enough, I didn't go back far enough to see what your purchasing intentions were, but the iPad is selling like hotcakes. I do suspect things like printing support will come though.
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post #60 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

The biggest reason the iPad can't sell like hotcakes

Your predictions on what people will buy seem to be a little shaky. Based on later posts, even you bought an iPad.

Ouch you did NOT just go there...
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post #61 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Looks like Eric Schmidt made off with yet another Apple idea during his tenure on the board. Not surprising given Google's approach to all IP but its own.

Please, can we cut this BS out? All tech companies "borrow" ideas from other companies.

You could easily say this is a copy of the Roku box that originally came out for Netflix a couple of years ago. Or that Apple "stole" the idea for the iPhone from Palm or Blackberry (and phone app stores existed long before Apple even announced a phone).
post #62 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I completely agree with Cory's previous post on the iPad...yeah, it's selling really well, but i think that if what Cory wants (as do i) in future iPad (a standalone device) doesn't come to fruition soon, like in the Gen2 or Gen4, then sales will be flat for the next couple years. the people that buy new ones will be either previous iPad owners wanting to blow another 800 bucks for the latest and greatest or people (like me) who are finally giving in (which i haven't on the Apple TV yet)...mainly because we want one and don't see anything more compelling (i.e. settling for now).

Of course. If the iPad becomes stagnant, so will its sales. That goes without saying. Not sure if the need to become a standalone device though. I don't think computers are going to disappear anytime soon.

PS: Why not Gen3?
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post #63 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Yep Dave, I know you are right about selling, I just horde Apple stuff

As you can see I immediately changed my feeling on the whole ebay issue and edited my post... I too am an admitted Apple horde... I have a few cubes (I think), a PPC laptop or 2... one or two old PPC powermac towers and a box-o-crap filled with ADB cables, Farallon phone-net connectors and assorted paraphernalia... I even have... GET THIS... A nubus QUICKTIME accelerator card (well the box for it anyway) that I just spotted in the attic. I saw it and said CRAP I gotta start throwing this stuff out!
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post #64 of 258
I hope this is also accompanied by an  Home Server with at least 3x 3.5" drive bays running ARM and iPhone OS with a local Cocoa app access or WebKit-based UI. I think this would be a popular product as integrated home storage is a growing desire.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

The biggest reason the iPad can't sell like hotcakes

Your predictions on what people will buy seem to be a little shaky. Based on later posts, even you bought an iPad.

Right? It's like some sort of mission to be perfectly incorrect in every post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

So no OS update to existing hardware possible ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

As the owner of 2 Apple TVs ... I feel your pain..

Considering it's gone through three rich updates without any additional cost and debuted BEFORE the original iPhone I'd say that nothing more than a minor bug update or compatibility update will be had, if that. 3+ years is more than adequate for free updates in my opinion and the HW is truly anemic at this point.

I hope that they use the TV's Take 3 UI, not the iPad's UI, for for this device. I also hope they have deals inked this time. I can't imagine they'd get it wrong the second time now that the platform has truly evolved into a specific direction and the tech is there to satisfy Apple's needs. Oh how things have changed in 3 years.
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post #65 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Yep Dave, I know you are right about selling, I just horde Apple stuff

Hmmm just thinking about this rumor... I have to wonder how many people WILL jump to sell their ATV now and cause a mini 'ebay panic' with everyone dropping ATV prices just so they can sell now before the new device comes out... Hey, what a great way to TRICK people into selling stuff CHEAP!

Maybe I need to float a rumor that a 1080p iPad that will go on sale next month for $199...

Hmm could I be that mean?
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post #66 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Does seem like it.

how is that really better than a small little box and a short cord.

Well, it had better be a small little box if you have a short cord.

post #67 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Of course. If the iPad becomes stagnant, so will its sales. That goes without saying. Not sure if the need to become a standalone device though. I don't think computers are going to disappear anytime soon.

PS: Why not Gen3?

Apple usually doesn't do major product overhauls, one after another, it's usually at the 4th generation that they do anyting huge.

I think the future is for the flat panel of a laptop or a Desktop to be removable for travel. When you unplug it, it functions as the current iPad does, like an OS lite. But when plugged into the CPU, it back to a fully functioning Mac.

That's what i see as the future, hope Apple agrees.
post #68 of 258
The article states that 1080p streaming would be similar to Microsoft's Silverlight/Zune 1080p streaming, which works on connections as low as 3mbps.

http://www.iis.net/media/experiencesmoothstreaming1080p
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post #69 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

But it's free. People will be hard pressed to spend even $100 on a device whose main function is a storefront for renting and buying content.

How do you figure it was free? The manufacturer doesn't add feature out of the goodness of their hearts. They included the costs of the features into the television. So I paid for it.

If you can afford a $2000 television then $100 isn't a stretch.

This device is a rumor so it may be something other than a storefront for iTunes. The Roko from Netflix is $100 yet people somehow manage to buy it. It has way more functionality than the AppleTV but in the long run will save the buyer. We'll have to wait and see what benefit and cost savings (if any) the AppleTV will provide in the future if this rumor turns out to be true.
post #70 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Please, can we cut this BS out? All tech companies "borrow" ideas from other companies. ...

Yes, but not all tech companies demonstrate wanton disregard for IP law, or have the opportunity of sitting on the board of companies they hope to steal ideas from.
post #71 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I hope this is also accompanied by an  Home Server with at least 3x 3.5" drive bays running ARM and iPhone OS with a local Cocoa app access or WebKit-based UI. I think this would be a popular product as integrated home storage is a growing desire.

Agreed. Windows Home Server is a good product and I'd like Apple to produce something similar. Maybe take the Time Capsule and enhance it by adding extra drives bays and data duplication.
post #72 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

How fast would my home Internet need to be to download 1080p?

I was at blockbuster yesterday. Found myself thinking that if I never walked into the store again I'd be fine with that. And I don't want to buy a BR player. Give me 1080 streaming and I'm yours.

I don't put any credit into this, Apple has been very stubbornly against the 100% cloud approach because the internet just isn't there & won't be fore some time. Many people can't afford the ridiculous prices of cable internet & with wireless broadband capped at 5GB per month the concept of an all cloud based TV would be a flop. It also doesn't fit at all with the current model of iPhone OS and would require a severe re-tooling of it.

I think it's far more likely that Apple would release iPhone OS for ATV (with upgrade pricing for current ATVs) to allow ATV users to take advantage of apps & the web.

This is a bogus story, I don't buy any of it.
post #73 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Apple usually doesn't do major product overhauls, one after another, it's usually at the 4th generation that they do anyting huge.

Alright, that makes sense.
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post #74 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

How fast would my home Internet need to be to download 1080p?

A 90 minute Blu-Ray movie is at most about 40GB so this is 7.4MB/s = 60Mbits/s.

You get 50Mbit broadband in some areas but the real problem is sustained bandwidth. You may get 50Mbit for a minute or so but they won't let you have it for 90 minutes straight.

It doesn't have to have that high a bitrate though. 1x Blu-Ray is 36Mbits so you can easily get away with that.

720p should stream fine on 10Mbit broadband.

I think this is a perfect solution to ATV as it reduces the cost, power consumption and size of the unit. Just having a plug would be ideal.

If they said up pay-per-minute pricing up to a capped rate, that would be awesome. Like say you want to watch a part of a movie clip or TV show, you could be charged only for the minutes you watch. This way you can flip through as many movies to find something you like.

16GB of space is enough to store a couple of HD movies too if they get the bitrate low enough so it would function like an ATV in some cases.

The only concern would be the remote if it's a plug as it may be obscured but they could put an IR receiver on the cable or maybe use a different standard like bluetooth.
post #75 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

As you can see I immediately changed my feeling on the whole ebay issue and edited my post... I too am an admitted Apple horde... I have a few cubes (I think), a PPC laptop or 2... one or two old PPC powermac towers and a box-o-crap filled with ADB cables, Farallon phone-net connectors and assorted paraphernalia... I even have... GET THIS... A nubus QUICKTIME accelerator card (well the box for it anyway) that I just spotted in the attic. I saw it and said CRAP I gotta start throwing this stuff out!

Shame you are not in Florida we could join forces and have a stall
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post #76 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by reliason View Post

Just some thoughts.

1.) This will probably have a camera. As a companion product to the video conferencing iPhone.
2.) App store has netflix. This device would run iPhone OS...
2a.) Netflix now supports iPad video adapter.
3.) It will have 802.11n and bluetooth using same chipset as iPad.
4.) Will probably support connectivity to iPhone/iPod Touch for remote wifi or bluetooth.
5.) I doubt it will stream 1080p. That seems over the top.
6.) Will not have blue-ray. Apple will never have Blue-ray. Blue-ray is a dead medium, long term. Streaming will replace it completely in the future.

You had me until that last little bit. I don't think that streaming will replace a physical medium (Blu-ray) for some time to come. Some people will always want something they can possess---not just stream. There will always be people who don't want to be connected to the internet to enjoy a movie. There will always be people who can't get a wide enough broadband connection to stream.
Blu-ray is backed by some huge players in electronics and entertainment. It is not going anywhere for quite some time. Apple may be smart not to adopt it (pushing people towards iTunes), but it is also frustrating.
post #77 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

People will be hard pressed to spend even $100 on a device whose main function is a storefront for renting and buying content.

Agreed. And much of the early-adopter crowd already have Blu-ray with access to movies and TV shows through over-the-internet services like Netflix and Amazon VOD. Apple knows this too, so I'm hoping an Apple TV relaunch means Apple will have the content deals worked out to provide a TV subscription package.

I would dump Comcast in a heartbeat for a $50-$75/month plan that looks something like this:

1. network and cable shows in HD with new episodes available the same night (or even the day after) they air with a liberal enough viewing window to catch up all episodes during a current season;

2. free access to a decent amount of previous seasons of TV shows (since I know the networks are never going to go for an everything-available-all-the-time approach);

3. streaming news, sports and special-event programming (even if you have to pay a little extra for say, MSNBC or Fox News); and

4. PPV movies priced competitively with Comcast and the various Blu-ray streaming services.

5. availability to stream or sync the same content to iTunes, iPhone, and iPad.

Apple will really have to zero in on No. 3 to turn Apple TV into a Comcast killer. I don't think a content subscription would gain much traction unless it allowed people to evaluate it against their cable or satellite service.

I would not pay more than $10 a month for a content package that does not include live MNSBC, CNBC, college football, and events like the Academy Awards, but I would pay $50-$75 a month for a content package that includes all of that because I would be dropping my cable service.
post #78 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC4Theo View Post

I gave my Sony TV away, because I have been waiting for an AppleTV.

I would not count on a TV from Apple. I think the smart thing to do is stay with the set top box since it much more akin to their current biz. The large screen HD TV biz is getting to be cut throat and I suspect it will get much tighter (good for consumer prices - bad for OEMs). I would like to see someone working as a partner with Apple to get OS X running in it instead of the crap we use now. I have a new top of the line Sony Bravia with built-in ethernet and the web stuff sucks - bad. And it is so sloooooooow to respond. It takes forever for the system to boot and respond even for simple things like controlling the volume. Also Sony does not know anything about how to do a menu system - same crap that is on the PlayStation AFAIKT. Apple could build add-on board to support the smarts of the TV and let Sony take the risk on the commodity side of things.

Don't misunderstand I would love to have a TV with a nice little Apple on the bezel - I just don't think it is the wisest thing to do (as a stock holder).
post #79 of 258
I think an full Apple branded TV is possible. Even a good idea. Imagine them competing at the same level as Bang & Olufsen. They have been creeping into home networked entertainment for years. Why not go the whole 9 yards. Much of what AirTunes does is like BeoLink. Add controllers for other devices, lighting, heating, etc. and you have a BeoLink drop in, and even at Apple's prices it would be cheaper than B&O.
post #80 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickertb View Post

I want an Apple OS in my (Philips) TV!!

I don't want another remote control
I don't want a new settop box

Apple should license (free of paid) its OS to TV manufactures...!!

Or - TVs should have a card slot/printboard where a small computer or OS can be inserted.

I agree completely. I just posted a note with similar thoughts before reading yours.
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