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1.4 trillion dollars

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
<a href="http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48781,00.html" target="_blank">http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48781,00.html</a>

???

Is this about greed? In my mind this is like taking 45 steps back while trying to take one step foward. Oh well, can't blame them for trying.

The article says that they are representing ALL the African Americans in the US. I have a question for the AAs on this board; have you received a letter for this class action suit?
post #2 of 28
Bill O'Reilly had a great commentary on this the other night.

Here's a transcript:

<a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48804,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48804,00.html</a>

[ 03-27-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #3 of 28
this is getting sickenly out of hand... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
"If it weren't for my horse...I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

"If curling is an olympic sport, then oral sex is adultery. If anything, oral sex should be an olympic sport...cause it's...
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"If it weren't for my horse...I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

"If curling is an olympic sport, then oral sex is adultery. If anything, oral sex should be an olympic sport...cause it's...
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post #4 of 28
Unfortunately this is what happens when you foster the idea that everyone deserves to be paid for their grievances. This is pretty sad. African Americans should be thankful that they live in the BEST Country on this Planet...that's nothing to sneeze at.
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post #5 of 28
[quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:
<strong>Unfortunately this is what happens when you foster the idea that everyone deserves to be paid for their grievances. This is pretty sad. African Americans should be thankful that they live in the BEST Country on this Planet...that's nothing to sneeze at.</strong><hr></blockquote>

but its not their grievances. its not the same if yer talking about the pains of people long dead! it has no effect on u now (well, in comparison to past generations), so u have no right to bitch! stop exploiting the pains of yer ancestors! its sickening if u think about it...
they should be thankful for what they do have and stop trying to squeeze money out of a society that has nothing to do w/ what their ancestors did. stop being so damn greedy! im half hispanic (which includes native american blood). as reilly so eloquently pointed out, native americans went through alot worse shit than blacks. and what do they get for it?? jack shit. and yet they dont bitch nearly as much...
so should i go and demand restribution for the hardship of someone i never knew????
give me a fuc*ing break...
"If it weren't for my horse...I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

"If curling is an olympic sport, then oral sex is adultery. If anything, oral sex should be an olympic sport...cause it's...
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"If it weren't for my horse...I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

"If curling is an olympic sport, then oral sex is adultery. If anything, oral sex should be an olympic sport...cause it's...
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post #6 of 28
Damn lawyers... Only in America... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
post #7 of 28
Thread Starter 
I'm afraid all it's going to do is foster resentment. This 1.4 trillion figure is only for the 8 companies listed. As more companies get added the figure will get higher.
post #8 of 28
Am I missing something here or was slavery legal in the United States at the time? What laws from that era have been broken? Why should today's laws apply?
post #9 of 28
Hmmm, Im short on cash, perhaps Ill start a logging company and then sue the US government for a few billion over the lumber tarrifs

Is it just me, or is it time that we take all these poor people who are complaining about being "discriminated" against and shove them back in a... ahem, sorry...
This whole discrimination thing is going too far, about the only one that I can really see being justified is the native americans.

edit: justified meaning that the Native Americans should have their deals looked at due to the fact that we did invade their territory.
Of course the same thing happened in India and you dont see the surviving aboriginal Indians asking for payment...

[ 03-27-2002: Message edited by: The Toolboi ]</p>
Those who dance the dance must look very foolish to those who can't hear the music
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Those who dance the dance must look very foolish to those who can't hear the music
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post #10 of 28
[quote]Damn lawyers<hr></blockquote>

:confused:

You're looking at the wrong group, starfleet.

This is ridiculous and it will not win a dime.
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #11 of 28
Thread Starter 
Hey, I wouldn't mind giving Native Americans back a chunk of land seperate from US control.... maybe Montana?
post #12 of 28
OMG!!!

The greed is disgusting.

[quote]"To me its not fundamentally about the money, it is about the truth of history and bringing the truth to light, which will promote a frank and honest discussion across the racial divide," he said.<hr></blockquote>

BS, it's about the money and about making a name for themselves. If anyone rolls over for this it will NEVER end. They should be counter-sued for Defamation. [edit]By every company named. Separately. By the time they have fought every case they will be so broke that they would need a grant just to talk to another lawyer.[/edit]

[ 03-27-2002: Message edited by: NoahJ ]</p>
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #13 of 28
The Romans killed lots of Christians. Let's sue Italy for $50 trillion.
post #14 of 28
If they're going to sue people for being part of the slave trade, then they should also sue the africans that were doing the selling.

If nothing this will drive a wedge between the racial divide. Not bring people together. How is something like this supposed to bring people of all races together? I don't get it.

what a bunch of BS.
post #15 of 28
There isn't anyone alive now who was a slave-owner. How can you sue dead people? This whole thing is completely unworkable and African-Americans should *stop obsessing about the past* and concentrate on fighting/righting any elements, within and without their community, which are causing the problems of *today*.
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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post #16 of 28
I agree with everything everyone of you have said above.

And that in itself has got to be an amazing thing!



But seriously, this is ridiculous. It isn't going to bring ANYONE together or "unite" jack-squat.

Samantha said it best: quit obsessing and bitching about the past (which NO ONE alive today had anything whatsoever to do with) and concentrate on the violence, out-of-wedlock births, drug abuse, unemployment, crime, "you owe me" mentality, etc. of your community that's truly at the root of the problems faced today by many blacks.

In other words, quit worrying that your great-great-great grandfather picked some cotton and start worrying about that crackhouse two doors down from your kid's school.

post #17 of 28
Ok....let me play Devils Advocate here.

African Americans are indeed affected by the effects of slavery. Slavery existed as far as the Mid 1800's meaning an AA could have a Great Great Grandparent that was born into slavery. Thinking Generationwise I don't think you can refute the fact that "crippling" one forefathers has no effect on the future offspring. To become productive members of Society you need capable parenting along with the opportunity. EX Slave had no Education no money and no Networking available. All they had was freedom. What would they have to bequeath to their children. Nothing

Native Americans? Situation is not the same. They fought for their land and lost. They weren't slave on a large scale and their children never experience being born into slavery(Chattel Slavery). Even today they have Government benefits and some sort of Soveriegnty(Reservations). Africans were plucked from their homelands and then placed into slavery...it's one thing to defeat your foes but quite another to deliver them AND their offspring into eternal bondage.

Greed- I read that they group initiating this case is not looking for individual payouts but rather that all monies are added to an account to help AA causes such as Education, Housing etc. They of course will point to the precedents that have been set with Japanese Americans during WWII and even some Jewish Holocaust survivors. I don't necessarily agree that it's greed that motivates this but rather "atonement" for live that no longer exist.

[quote] I'm afraid all it's going to do is foster resentment. This 1.4 trillion figure is only for the 8 companies listed. As more companies get added the figure will get higher. <hr></blockquote>

Why resentment? This case seeks damages from specified Corporations. The Punitive Damages won't affect you at all directly.

[quote] Is it just me, or is it time that we take all these poor people who are complaining about being "discriminated" against and shove them back in a... ahem, sorry...
This whole discrimination thing is going too far, about the only one that I can really see being justified is the native americans.

<hr></blockquote>

Discrimination exists for all of us. It is a Natural Human Tendency. If you are a member of the minority, you will not have much power or choice unless someone is able to arbitrate and fight for your causes. This is true of all attributes Canadians know that Quebec residents feel different than someone from BC. These things happen. Protections need to be in place to ensure fairness in many areas. Native Americans were not forced to work without pay. They may have lost their land but so did the Africans that were kidnapped and brought into Slavery. The paralles are just not the same.

[quote] The Romans killed lots of Christians. Let's sue Italy for $50 trillion.
IP<hr></blockquote>

Again War has different rules. AA's are not seeking reparations for losing a War or Battle. Their seeking damages because their forefather were forced to work and build these companies with absolutely no pay. Add the potential hours of labor with interest and it could very well be into the Trillions of money owed.

[quote] If nothing this will drive a wedge between the racial divide. Not bring people together. How is something like this supposed to bring people of all races together? I don't get it.

what a bunch of BS.

<hr></blockquote>

If this causes a Racial Divide then that divide already existed and corroborates what AA's have been saying all along. True impatiality would have a average person looking into just where AA's were slighted and judging the case by it's merits and keeping personal feelings out of the equation.

[quote] If they're going to sue people for being part of the slave trade, then they should also sue the africans that were doing the selling <hr></blockquote>

I'm sure if these people could be found they would be named in the Suit as well. Good luck trying to find them.
[quote] There isn't anyone alive now who was a slave-owner. How can you sue dead people? This whole thing is completely unworkable and African-Americans should *stop obsessing about the past* and concentrate on fighting/righting any elements, within and without their community, which are causing the problems of *today*. <hr></blockquote>

That's exactly why their going after Corporations that they can prove had any involvement in using Slave Labor. They're not dumb..to wholly blame individuals would be foolish. Companies can exist far longer than the life expectancy of Humans. That is who they're targeting. With the Civil Rights movement still so very recent in our History...can we really say that AA's have reached Parity?? How can we expect AA's to be Doctors and Lawyers, Bankers and run Elite Corporations when just 50 years ago they couldn't eat in the same restaraunts as Whites. Isn't that a little far fetched? They will claim that the problems that they are obsessing about today are routed in lack of support from the Gov and other resources etc...which is true in many ways.


In the end I personally do not believe in Reparations but considering the Precedents of Reparations in the past and the undeniable atrocities that have happened in our history..I don't think this case is as outlandish as some may think. White Males are the Pinnacle of our Society and that will not change anytime soon. You will never hear a caucasion wish to be any other race. We need to take a look around and see just how our Society represents multiple ethnicities. Understanding is the key.
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post #18 of 28
[quote]Thinking Generationwise I don't think you can refute the fact that "crippling" one forefathers has no effect on the future offspring.<hr></blockquote>

Granted, but whom do you hold responsible?

The son can not be convicted of the crimes of the father.

[quote]To become productive members of Society you need capable parenting along with the opportunity. EX Slave had no Education no money and no Networking available. All they had was freedom. What would they have to bequeath to their children. Nothing<hr></blockquote>

When my parents die, they will leave me nothing. They do very little now to help me in any way. I am white.

My mother's side of the family were dirt poor agrarian people for years. They had nothing in slavery days and have nothing now. Yet, I am white.

Being poor is not a reason to sue.

[quote] They of course will point to the precedents that have been set with Japanese Americans during WWII and even some Jewish Holocaust survivors. I don't necessarily agree that it's greed that motivates this but rather "atonement" for live that no longer exist. <hr></blockquote>

I can't really see what atonement there will ever be. I challenge you or anyone to find someone alive today that agrees with slavery or that thought slavery was a great thing. And even if you find that odd person, it's 1 out of 1 million.

These people were never slaves, no one needs to apologize to them for anything.

They are fighting for awareness? Bullshit, awareness already exists and has existed for decades.

[quote]They're not dumb..to wholly blame individuals would be foolish.<hr></blockquote>

And not nearly as profitable.

[quote]With the Civil Rights movement still so very recent in our History...can we really say that AA's have reached Parity??<hr></blockquote>

What does the Civil Rights movement have to do with slavery?
And what parity are you talking about that would be applicable to a legal case?

[quote]How can we expect AA's to be Doctors and Lawyers, Bankers and run Elite Corporations when just 50 years ago they couldn't eat in the same restaraunts as Whites.<hr></blockquote>

I don't know, why don't you ask all the black doctors, lawyers, bankers and CEOs?

[quote]I don't think this case is as outlandish as some may think.<hr></blockquote>

Holocaust victims: many still alive at the time of that court battle.
Japanese interrment victims: many still alive at the time of the court battle.
Slavery victims: Haven't existed for over a century.

[quote]You will never hear a caucasion wish to be any other race.<hr></blockquote>

1) That's a lie.
2) How many blacks wish they were white?
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post #19 of 28
well as one of the knee-jerk liberals on the board, I have to say "hogwash". First, The case is legally meritless. It is based upon the case model of the case against Swiss banks that held tangible assets the Nazi's took from Holocaust survivors. They are suing Aetna for insuring the slaves lives. While I am sure that slaveowners were insuring their slaves in the same spirit as I insure my car, and not the way I would insure my child, at no time did Aetna take tangible assets from the slaves. They did not take their freedom from them, the slave traders, and in many cases tribal leaders did.

Hey, my family was part of the underground railroad- does that mean I get some cash too?

Normally I am apt to bend over so far backwards on the issue of civil right I could kiss my loafers, but I think that this is at best a seriously misguided attempt to get a dialog on this matter. At worst it's a sleazy attempt by a few people to shake down some big corporations in the name of doing so. In any case, it will do nothing but cause a lot of angry rhetoric, bad feelings, and the continuation of the victim mentality for both African-Americans and Caucasians. We should be working on the bigotry and hatred that is here now, not stoking the fires.

[ 03-28-2002: Message edited by: tmp ]</p>
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post #20 of 28
Thread Starter 
You will never hear a caucasion wish to be any other race.

Oh, I beg to differ.... ever hear of wiggers? Suburban white kids wishing they were black hard core rappers.
post #21 of 28
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If they're going to sue people for being part of the slave trade, then they should also sue the africans that were doing the selling
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sure if these people could be found they would be named in the Suit as well. Good luck trying to find them.





<a href="http://www.pbs.org/wonders/Episodes/Epi3/slave_2.htm" target="_blank">http://www.pbs.org/wonders/Episodes/Epi3/slave_2.htm</a>
post #22 of 28
Come to think of it, I've been meaning to sue Eve for eating the forbidden fruit and screwing my life up. Sounds like now's a good time.
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post #23 of 28
[quote]Originally posted by CosmoNut:
<strong>Come to think of it, I've been meaning to sue Eve for eating the forbidden fruit and screwing my life up. Sounds like now's a good time.</strong><hr></blockquote>

damn females...
they always screw everything up...
"If it weren't for my horse...I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

"If curling is an olympic sport, then oral sex is adultery. If anything, oral sex should be an olympic sport...cause it's...
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"If it weren't for my horse...I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

"If curling is an olympic sport, then oral sex is adultery. If anything, oral sex should be an olympic sport...cause it's...
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post #24 of 28
The main argument here seems to be that since no one alive today was a slave, they can't sue.

OK. But then what about people who are alive today who were segregated and denied education just 50 years ago? The gov't has paid reparations to the Japanese for internment, and other people that were wronged. Why not Blacks?
post #25 of 28
Thread Starter 
OK fine. but those companies listed in the suit had nothing to do with blacks not getting an edumication 50 years ago.
post #26 of 28
[quote]Originally posted by BRussell:
<strong>The main argument here seems to be that since no one alive today was a slave, they can't sue.

OK. But then what about people who are alive today who were segregated and denied education just 50 years ago? The gov't has paid reparations to the Japanese for internment, and other people that were wronged. Why not Blacks?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I have been undert he impression that billions have been spent towards bringing equality for AA's. Maybe even Trillions over time. Social programs, court rulings, and such have gone a long way and cost a lot of money to ensure that people are aware of what the black man went through. This has got to be the worst kept secret I have heard of. "Did you know that black people used to be slaves? ** REALLY!!! No way!!! ** Yeah and they used to be owned by white people a long time ago! ** WOW! Now I feel bad being white and all." Geeze....
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #27 of 28
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
<strong>I have been undert he impression that billions have been spent towards bringing equality for AA's. Maybe even Trillions over time.</strong><hr></blockquote>Which programs are those? There's medicaid and welfare, but those go mostly to whites. There was busing to desegregate schools. There are some scholarships and other gov't-sponsored recruitment initiatives to attract blacks to certain fields like sciences. Hardly billions and trillions.
post #28 of 28
Affirmative Action has benefitted ALL minorities and Women. Blacks are just a small component of the overall structure. Again this lawsuit is not seeking retribution from White it is looking for damages from companies that profited from slave(low cost) labor. This is what makes the suit mor valid that the "get whitey" garbage of the past.
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