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Humanitarian aid flotilla attacked.... - Page 4

post #121 of 392
6/2/10 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Chiefly because you failed to provide any evidence whatsoever for your earlier assertion that the flotilla activists were "secular activists." Do you plan to post any evidence or you plan to stay with your wrong assumption?



My perspective is based on several AP, UPI, and BBC news reports; i.e., the most documented "reality" available that is not based on your wrong assumption.



Thousands huh? Name one and cite it with a link to something more than your wrong assumption.



Terror entities Hamas and Hezbollah and their proven crimes aside, we need not ascribe fictional Israeli crimes, or allegations of such, with the same gravitas.

You are sinister too!!!

Disagree with Segovious, get labeled as SINISTER!!!! My day has been MADE!!!
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #122 of 392
6/2/10 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

You'll just keep floating the bait until someone bites. But it won't be me. If you honestly believe Iran's leaders are trustworthy and can be taken at their word, then there isn't much left to discuss on the matter. But I think you know exactly how bad President A. is. I think it's just that you're blinded by hatred of the Israelis and to a lesser extent, the US government.

You know one day I would LOVE to have a discussion about how bad President A is - but you know what? You don't actually KNOW how bad he is.

If we could get past the 'map' lie - which we never will but just saying if we could - then we could discuss the REAL problems. And there are many. But as I say, you don't actually know what they are and I can't tell you...

For the simple reason that I can't seriously enter a debate which is based on a falsehood because to do so would be to accept the falsehood.

So we can't get anywhere.

But actually, President A is not as bad in the way you think as many that could replace him. The Iranians know this - so it's a kind of 'better the devil you know'. He isn't particularly religious (any more than any Iranian politician..certainly he's not a cleric) and he is certainly not hardcore. Not a reformer either so the status quo remains.

The problem is the system not him. And even that is weak comparatively to what it was. If the US had acted half the way it has over the last decade and there'd been a Khomeni-like figure there then you wouldn't have to fish for 'facts' and mistranslations....you'd have files full of actual undeniable incidents against US interests and there'd be a war already.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #123 of 392
6/2/10 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

You are sinister too!!!

Disagree with Segovious, get labeled as SINISTER!!!! My day has been MADE!!!

That doesn't make sense - SDW disagrees with me far more than you do and for far longer and I didn't say he was sinister.

This is a classic example actually: it's this level of incomprehension and basic inability to grasp the rudiments of English grammar and syntax that I find sinister.

Believing as I do in the basic rationality of human beings I can only think that such irrationality cannot be in the natural order of things and MUST be deliberate and betoken some other agenda.

I know some people are paid to sit at computers all day and haunt boards pushing Right-wing propaganda and stuff and I'm sure there are some on here....it is Orwellian. I stand by that.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #124 of 392
6/2/10 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I don't question Israel's right to exist.

You have in the past. It would take me some time to find the quotes, but it was within the last year or so.

Quote:
I question it's right to exist in that place at the expense of the previous population

Ah, a Clinton-esque explanation. It's the same thing. Israel can't just be moved, no more than the US can just be moved. It's like saying that Virginia has a right to exist, just not where it is. That's ludicrous.
Quote:

and I question the motivations of the British role in the setting up of the State.

OK, fine..but that ship has sailed...no pun intended. The State is where it is. That cannot be changed now.

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I also question the means and methods by which Israel maintains itself.

Yes, and I often do as well. But you don't stop there...not at all.

Quote:

I think you'll find that a different thing.

I also think you'll find that I am not alone in that and many Jews 'question Israel's right to exist'.

I know you're not alone. That doesn't mean I agree with your view. In my view, Israel has a right to exist. I do disagree with a lot of their methods and strategies, and think the humanitarian situation is serious problem. I also think that Hamas and other groups have helped cause that situation, only to then "alleviate" it through their social-aid wings.

As for Israel itself, I think they are facing people who want to destroy them, and won't stop until they accomplish their goal. This causes Israel to overreact and make some bad decisions. For example, it seems their troops are always "in again, out again." They go in, leave, and go in again. It's never ending. They also try to punish bombers' families by doing things like bulldozing houses. It's not effective, and merely stokes more hate.

Not that you asked, but here is what I think Israel should do: Say to the Palestinians..."we're going to give you basically everything you want. We'll keep troops out, dismantle settlements, etc. We'll stop blocking trade and humanitarian aid. All we want in return is to be left alone. Stop the rockets, mortars, and stoking of hatred. We'll have peace. But peace will come with a price: If, after our agreement, the attacks continue? Then here's what we're going to do: We'll occupy the bank and the strip with our military and institute marshall law. Forever. We'll allow no freedom of movement. We'll search every person, every vehicle, every ship. We will simply never leave."

Quote:

But to address your point more fully (and you are wrong btw in assuming I would attack you if you had voiced different opinions - Noah and Camp David as they are more sinister maybe but not you as you are imo a rational thinking man) if the US were to say, reach an accommodation with Iran which involved retaking Iraq (which as you know was originally Persia and united with the area now known as Iran) and facilitated this displacing the Iraqis then I would question 'Iran's' right to exist or whatever name they gave it.

I think that's reasonable.

Either Israel has a right to exist (where it is now), or it doesn't. If you say it does not, then admit that you are 100% committed to moving it by force, or destroying it. Anything less is just intellectually dishonest.
To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #125 of 392
6/2/10 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

That doesn't make sense - SDW disagrees with me far more than you do and for far longer and I didn't say he was sinister.

This is a classic example actually: it's this level of incomprehension and basic inability to grasp the rudiments of English grammar and syntax that I find sinister.

Believing as I do in the basic rationality of human beings I can only think that such irrationality cannot be in the natural order of things and MUST be deliberate and betoken some other agenda.

I know some people are paid to sit at computers all day and haunt boards pushing Right-wing propaganda and stuff and I'm sure there are some on here....it is Orwellian. I stand by that.

I am PAID to be sinister!!!!!

Your issue with me is in relation to my "religious beliefs" and how they don't match up with what you think they should be. And marry that with a perception of my conservative values and my "blind support of all things Israel" (which is not the case but, whatever, reality is not important) and you have SINISTER ME. MUWAHAHAAHHAHAHAAAAA!!!

And I am irrational too!!! This just gets better and better. All the personal attacks rolled up in the past few posts. They should keep me rolling for days!!!
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #126 of 392
6/2/10 at 1:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

You'll just keep floating the bait until someone bites. But it won't be me. If you honestly believe Iran's leaders are trustworthy and can be taken at their word, then there isn't much left to discuss on the matter. But I think you know exactly how bad President A. is. I think it's just that you're blinded by hatred of the Israelis and to a lesser extent, the US government.

Don't forget: Iran has not attacked anyone in 275 years. As they are not likely to attack anyone now, the US/Israel, of course, is trying to spin a bunch of bull-biscuits to make people "think" that Iran is an aggressive nation. Iran just happens to be next on the neocon/Zionist hitlist of mideast nations to attack, then occupy, and subjugate, and strong public support for the next mideast adventure is a political must for the Obama Administration, especially given the lengthy and "less than stellar" performances in Iraq and Afghanistan.

*IF* there is any reason for Iran to arm itself with nukes, then it is for a DETERRENT purpose. They have a neighbor, Israel, armed with up to 400 nuclear weapons (including thermonuclear weapons), a huge stash of chemical and biological weapons, and a state of the "art" military, with the full support of the US... the Obama Adinistration has pledged $30 Billion in military aid to Israel over the next decade. Given these facts, how likely is it for Iran to strike Israel first, knowing that the reaction would obliterate Iran from the map? The probability of Iran attacking Israel is zero! The probability of Israel attacking Iran, however, is great, especially if Iran has no nukes. The public are being primed to accept the necessity of a new war, and Iran will be attacked by either Israel, or the US, or jointly, regardless of whether OR NOT they are developing nukes. The excuses will be that "we (the US/Israel had to stop their "aggressive designs" in the region". The US public will swallow the bait, yet again.

Both Israel and the US have a long track record for attacking other nations; Iran still remembers very vividly the US coup in 1953 which replaced their Parliamentary democracy led by Mossadegh, with a dictatorship regime led by a thug. Why should Iran trust either Israel or the US?

Regarding the Palestinians, your comment smacks of guilt transference: the reality, supported by all the evidence for decades, is that the powers that be in the US, together with the hardliners on the Israeli rightwing, have a morbid pathological hatred towards Palestinians, Arabs and people of the Muslim faith. This is a classic case of setting up a group of hated people as a victim, them blaming the victim for the actions of the oppressor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Murder? So Israel runs around and commits murder. Let me ask...why?

Simple. BECAUSE THEY CAN!!!!!. When people of a certain mindset know they know they can get away with something because they are unpoliceable, and have a blank check to do whatever they want, they will do it!

It's amazing how people forget this aspect of human nature. Why did Israel attack the USS Liberty in 1967, or use overwhelming, disproportionate force in Gaza and Lebanon? Why did the Chinese government order the massacre in Tianenmen Square? Why did the energy industry rip off the people of California to the tune of $30billion in 1999-2000? Why did the Soviet Union roll tanks into Prague in 1968? Why did the US +coalition invade Iraq on the basis of lies in 2003?

Because they could, and they knew they could get away with it. There's the nature of power, in the hands of people who should not have it.

In the event of stumbling across a briefcase stuffed full of used banknotes, on a remote highway... how many people would (a) report it and hand it in to the authorities, or (b) think.. wow... *moolah*!!!

Quite a large percentage.... and because they could, and they knew they could away with it.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #127 of 392
6/2/10 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Except most were not Muslims - the vast majority were secular activists who I am fairly sure have little interest in martyrdom.

Yes, it's quite common for secular activists to sit around chanting "Remember, Remember Jews, the Army of Mohammed will return."
They do it all the time at Starbucks waiting for their Expresso and biscuits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I am saying that some thugs illegally boarded a ship and started attacking people and these people rightfully fought back.

The videos also show the soldiers being attacked as they arrived on the ship from the copters.

So are you simply outright lying, or do you believe the footage, showing the actual people taken into custody, has somehow been faked?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #128 of 392
6/2/10 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsimages View Post

One of the main points being missed here is that the IDF boarded the boats in INTERNATIONAL WATERS. Even if the boats were stocked stem to stern with bombs, guns and ammo, the Israelis had no right, under international law, to board the vessels until they entered Israeli waters.

Really? I happen to know a little about maritime law. Which statutes or treaties did Israel violate?
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post #129 of 392
6/2/10 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

The accounts say that they did, indeed, turn up at 4 AM, and they did indeed fire. All account agree that they were very aggressive from the get go. Some accounts even insist that the protestors fought in self defence.

I believe the facts are sourced. You don't.

So, OK, we won't agree.

But do you have another example of another fact Segovius "made up"?

"Sourced facts?" From the 'activists?' Surely they wouldn't lie?
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post #130 of 392
6/2/10 at 2:08pm
Thread Starter 
If the Israelis had any interest in cultivating peace and goodwill in the region, they would have:
(1) Allowed the humanitarian aid to reach a port.
(2) Requested to search the ship's cargo for weapons. If the ships were being used to smuggle weapons, then a simple search would have revealed such, and any weapons would have been confiscated.
The aid should have been let through to Gaza, but with the warning... "any future aid shipment that contain smuggled weapons, everything will be confiscated, period, and no future shipments allowed".
(3) If the shipment was what was claimed, i.e. humanitarian aid, then it should have been let through, having been inspected.
(4) Future shipments would be encouraged, in order to relieve the abject poverty in Gaza, which breeds resentment and militancy.

But no! Obviously the Israelis want to keep the friction and bad feelings going. They have all the power to stop the debacle, but they are doing the opposite. The Israelis are pursuing a policy of "stomp these people into the ground", and getting a perpetual green light from the US.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #131 of 392
6/2/10 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

If the Israelis had any interest in cultivating peace and goodwill in the region, they would have:
(1) Allowed the humanitarian aid to reach a port.
(2) Requested to search the ship's cargo for weapons. If the ships were being used to smuggle weapons, then a simple search would have revealed such, and any weapons would have been confiscated.
The aid should have been let through to Gaza, but with the warning... "any future aid shipment that contain smuggled weapons, everything will be confiscated, period, and no future shipments allowed".
(3) If the shipment was what was claimed, i.e. humanitarian aid, then it should have been let through, having been inspected.
(4) Future shipments would be encouraged, in order to relieve the abject poverty in Gaza, which breeds resentment and militancy.

But no! Obviously the Israelis want to keep the friction and bad feelings going. They have all the power to stop the debacle, but they are doing the opposite. The Israelis are pursuing a policy of "stomp these people into the ground", and getting a perpetual green light from the US.

That's actually what Egypt and Israel tried to do, but the Hamas-sponsored blockade-busting flotilla would have none of it. They got exactly what they wanted.
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post #132 of 392
6/2/10 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

If the Israelis had any interest in cultivating peace and goodwill in the region, they would have:
(1) Allowed the humanitarian aid to reach a port.
(2) Requested to search the ship's cargo for weapons. If the ships were being used to smuggle weapons, then a simple search would have revealed such, and any weapons would have been confiscated.
The aid should have been let through to Gaza, but with the warning... "any future aid shipment that contain smuggled weapons, everything will be confiscated, period, and no future shipments allowed".
(3) If the shipment was what was claimed, i.e. humanitarian aid, then it should have been let through, having been inspected.
(4) Future shipments would be encouraged, in order to relieve the abject poverty in Gaza, which breeds resentment and militancy.

But no! Obviously the Israelis want to keep the friction and bad feelings going. They have all the power to stop the debacle, but they are doing the opposite. The Israelis are pursuing a policy of "stomp these people into the ground", and getting a perpetual green light from the US.

In other words, you think they should drop the embargo and just have shipments go through customs. If that had worked before, rockets would not have been imported and the embargo would not have had to be launched in 2007.

The need for a blockade is terribly unfortunate, but as it stands it is one of two things, as I see it, preventing a serious Middle East war that could kill hundreds of thousands of people. The other thing is the regular US payment of billions in military and economic aid to Egypt.

An open Hamas-led Gaza will quickly become a launching pad for Hezbollah, and the day some militant idiot steps way over the line, Israel will face pressure to respond directly to Hezbollah's benefactors, Syria and Iran.

Sammi, I understand your concern for the people of Gaza. But isn't just dropping the blockade the quickest route to the war against Iran you claim not to want?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #133 of 392
6/2/10 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

If the Israelis had any interest in cultivating peace and goodwill in the region, they would have:
(1) Allowed the humanitarian aid to reach a port.
(2) Requested to search the ship's cargo for weapons. If the ships were being used to smuggle weapons, then a simple search would have revealed such, and any weapons would have been confiscated.
The aid should have been let through to Gaza, but with the warning... "any future aid shipment that contain smuggled weapons, everything will be confiscated, period, and no future shipments allowed".
(3) If the shipment was what was claimed, i.e. humanitarian aid, then it should have been let through, having been inspected.
(4) Future shipments would be encouraged, in order to relieve the abject poverty in Gaza, which breeds resentment and militancy.

But no! Obviously the Israelis want to keep the friction and bad feelings going. They have all the power to stop the debacle, but t hey are doing the opposite. The Israelis are pursuing a policy of "stomp these people into the ground", and getting a perpetual green light from the US.

Have you even been reading the accounts Sammi? They were repeatedly offered to land in a port in Israel or Egypt to be searched and then have the aid disbursed from there. They refused and ran the blockade instead. From what I can tell, they were total idiots who were looking for a fight.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #134 of 392
6/2/10 at 3:34pm
A Timeline put out by AlertNet:

http://alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LDE6500LB.htm

It is still not very granular, but it seems to corroborate what I have heard so far. Even alerting that the troops were heavily armed, with paintball guns.... But they did have pistols on their legs just in case.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #135 of 392
6/2/10 at 3:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post


This is a classic example actually: it's this level of incomprehension and basic inability to grasp the rudiments of English grammar and syntax that I find sinister.

Believing as I do in the basic rationality of human beings I can only think that such irrationality cannot be in the natural order of things and MUST be deliberate and betoken some other agenda.

Your not alone! Noahj is quite simply not following threads outside his own very narrow viewpoint and his replies are often so skewed, irrelevant and hostile they show he seeks to agitate some other posters rather than have any interest in what they have to say. It's childish and boring and makes a mockery of PO.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #136 of 392
6/2/10 at 3:58pm
The flotilla's "desperately needed humanitarian aid" has been refused.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #137 of 392
6/2/10 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

The flotilla's "desperately needed humanitarian aid" has been refused.

No rockets, no bombs, no guns, no terrorists, no go...
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post #138 of 392
6/2/10 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

You touched on an important point - vital to recognize that Gaza flotilla participants PLANNED to attack Israel; wanted to martyr themselves for jihad - that point goes far to show the guilty flotilla participants. This is not the first time fanatical Muslim jihad has been a root cause of terrorism...

I liked this line from your link - "let people smuggle whatever they want into Palestine, a country filled with backwards, bloodthirsty, homicidal maniacs intent on eradicating all Jews from the planet, or when confronted with violence, choose not to fight even in their own self-defense. (Again, don’t call them anti-Semitic though! They love Israel!)"
~ http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives...ves-for-jihad/

It's got a certain stevegmu ring about it.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #139 of 392
6/2/10 at 4:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Don't plan military efforts based on what looks good on the news.

Is this meant to be a joke?

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~ William Hazlitt

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post #140 of 392
6/2/10 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

No rockets, no bombs, no guns, no terrorists, no go...

Tell me Steve did they find any of those things being transported for delivery to terrorists on that boat?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #141 of 392
6/2/10 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

The most irritating thing about this is that the timelines not relevant.

Whatever the elite commandoes of Flotilla 13 of the Israel Navy met on that boat, their response was absolutely disproportionate. They went in aggressively and they killed ten people. The people they killed had no guns.

Most of the disgust throughout the world is provoked by the disporportiate nature of the Israeli violence. Whatever the order of events, it doesnt change this fact.

Totally agreed. The Israelis are constructing a large hole that they'll be jumping right into. There's only so many Westerners they can brutally and illegally attack without getting pay back, at least from outside of the US.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #142 of 392
6/2/10 at 4:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

The need for a blockade is terribly unfortunate, but as it stands it is one of two things, as I see it, preventing a serious Middle East war that could kill hundreds of thousands of people. The other thing is the regular US payment of billions in military and economic aid to Egypt.

The only people opposed to the blockade are the terrorists in much the same way that the only people opposed to TSA security checks at airports are terrorists. Israel is actually the only peacekeeper in region dominated by bloodthirsty Muslim fanatics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

An open Hamas-led Gaza will quickly become a launching pad for Hezbollah, and the day some militant idiot steps way over the line, Israel will face pressure to respond directly to Hezbollah's benefactors, Syria and Iran.

I am continually amazed that terrorist entities Hamas and Hezbollah, as well as terrorist sympathizing nations such as Syria and Iran, are able to engender world sympathies to their plight of fostering terror. It might be time to allow Israel a free-bombing flight plan into Iran and Syria while we look the other way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Sammi, I understand your concern for the people of Gaza. But isn't just dropping the blockade the quickest route to the war against Iran you claim not to want?

Excellent point... the people of Gaza are better served by Israeli interests...
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post #143 of 392
6/2/10 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I know one fact (no apostrophe): Iran is scheduled for neutralization one way or another and it will happen. And when it does it will involve many Iranians dying and you will be supporting it. Or excusing it. Whatever it takes to retain 'credibility'.

There "may" be some relatively small skirmishes by Israel but beyond that I don't think anyone's going to be taking on Iran militarily. What make you so completely sure of the contrary?

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

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post #144 of 392
6/2/10 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Tell me Steve did they find any of those things being transported for delivery to terrorists on that boat?

Terrorists, yet. The rest will come on the next blockade-buster.
Of course it will be stopped, further inciting the world's anti-Semites and Democrats.
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post #145 of 392
6/2/10 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Terrorists, yet. The rest will come on the next blockade-buster.
Of course it will be stopped, further inciting the world's anti-Semites and Democrats.

Quote:
Terrorists, yet

I'm guessing you meant " Yes ". So they did find terrorists? I haven't read that. Do you have a link that shows that?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #146 of 392
6/2/10 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

That they've been developing a bomb. Come on, man. You take Iran at its word here? They've not lived up to any other promises. Why start now?

This doesn't at all prove they've been developing a bomb. Iran has allowed more inspections than any other country has ever allowed of their nuclear facilities and other sites. They're not making biological and chemical weapons either (though it certainly could, and quickly, if it wished).

That said you may be right, but I think it's highly unlikely they would, and that, over time I think will be proven.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

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post #147 of 392
6/2/10 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I'm guessing you meant " Yes ". So they did find terrorists? I haven't read that. Do you have a link that shows that?

Last I heard, at least 50 members of the Hamas-backed party have ties to terror groups. Hamas and Al-Qaeda specifically.
That's not my section, so I don't have the specifics with me right now.
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post #148 of 392
6/2/10 at 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Last I heard, at least 50 members of the Hamas-backed party have ties to terror groups. Hamas and Al-Qaeda specifically.
That's not my section, so I don't have the specifics with me right now.

Well not exactly the same thing is it?

Not your section? What's that supposed to mean?

If you make statements on this forum be prepared to be challenged as no one just accepts things at face value.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #149 of 392
6/2/10 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Well not exactly the same thing is it?

Not your section? What's that supposed to mean?

If you make statements on this forum be prepared to be challenged as no one just accepts things at face value.

I can't help it if you are too lazy to do research, or at least pay attention to the world's news.
Feel free to put me on ignore.
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post #150 of 392
6/2/10 at 4:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

I can't help it if you are too lazy to do research, or at least pay attention to the world's news.
Feel free to put me on ignore.

I'm sorry if you have no support for your statement it must be considered not proven or hearsay.

If you make the statement it's your job to support it ( didn't you ever debate anyone in school? ). That would be big news so it should be easy to find. But it's your statement so it's your job to support it. Like I've said I haven't read or seen anything that supports your statement that they found terrorists on board.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #151 of 392
6/2/10 at 5:13pm
Wow, a flurry of activity from my two favorite ignores. Anything good?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #152 of 392
6/2/10 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I'm sorry if you have no support for your statement it must be considered not proven or hearsay.

If you make the statement it's your job to support it ( didn't you ever debate anyone in school? ). That would be big news so it should be easy to find. But it's your statement so it's your job to support it. Like I've said I haven't read or seen anything that supports your statement that they found terrorists on board.

I don't have access to hard sources from my iPad, so here are links to articles I'm sure you won't read or find credible, as they are not from the Huffington Post or Al-Jazerra-

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...897667,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/05...flotilla-dead/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...e-martyrs.html

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/36668/

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisr...d-to-al-Qaeda/
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post #153 of 392
6/2/10 at 5:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Really? I happen to know a little about maritime law. Which statutes or treaties did Israel violate?

Perhaps the same ones that the Somali pirates are accused of?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #154 of 392
6/2/10 at 5:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Have you even been reading the accounts Sammi? They were repeatedly offered to land in a port in Israel or Egypt to be searched and then have the aid disbursed from there. They refused and ran the blockade instead. From what I can tell, they were total idiots who were looking for a fight.

I know. And what would have happened to the contents of the ships, had the aid landed in Israel? Same for Egypt. It would have been a nice little windfall for local hoods and corrupt customs officials, and the activists would have been lobbed in jail then deported.

Basically, the same as what happened, minus the piracy and terrorism. C'mon people, nobody is *that* naive, surely?

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #155 of 392
6/2/10 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

I don't have access to hard sources from my iPad, so here are links to articles I'm sure you won't read or find credible, as they are not from the Huffington Post or Al-Jazerra-

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...897667,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/05...flotilla-dead/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...e-martyrs.html

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/36668/

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisr...d-to-al-Qaeda/

Well..... Unbiased sources ( since all of these basically say the same thing except the last one which makes a bold statement with no proof ) would be nice as Israel can " Claim " anything they want but until it's proven it's just likie North Korea claiming something. You need proof. And like I said this would be big news and a game changer. That's one of the reasons the rest of the world is so angry. Also ties to these groups aren't the same as being a known terrorist. That's like back in the 50's someone goes to a meeting of the communist party but that doesn't make them a communist.

So once again has someone actually come out and said they found proven terrorists on board?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #156 of 392
6/2/10 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Perhaps the same ones that the Somali pirates are accused of?

No.
I'll even help you out. Ever hear of the San Remo Manual? No? Here it is-

Section II concerning Blockades is relevant in this case.

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082...25641f002d49ce

As anyone can clearly see, Israel was well within the law.
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post #157 of 392
6/2/10 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Well..... Unbiased sources ( since all of these basically say the same thing except the last one which makes a bold statement with no proof ) would be nice as Israel can " Claim " anything they want but until it's proven it's just likie North Korea claiming something. You need proof. And like I said this would be big news and a game changer. Also ties to these groups aren't the same as being a known terrorist. That's like back in the 50's someone goes to a meeting of the communist party but that doesn't make them a communist.

So once again has someone actually come out and said they found proven terrorists on board?

Al-Jazerra and the Terrorist Daily aren't going to cover it, so you are out of luck.
Keep that head buried in the sand...
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post #158 of 392
6/2/10 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Al-Jazerra and the Terrorist Daily aren't going to cover it, so you are out of luck.
Keep that head buried in the sand...

My head is upright and attentive. So far I don't see any proof of your statement.

But I think I've made my point.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #159 of 392
6/2/10 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

My head is upright and attentive. So far I don't see any proof of your statement.

But I think I've made my point.

That liberals always side with terrorists and hate Israel? Yes. That no matter how many sources, they aren't credible unless they fit in with your viewpoint? Yes.
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post #160 of 392
6/2/10 at 5:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

That liberals always side with terrorists and hate Israel? Yes. That no matter how many sources, they aren't credible unless they fit in with your viewpoint? Yes.

My point was that you make unsupported statements and just expect people to accept them at face value. It doesn't work that way here. No matter how fast or loud you try to make them. They're credible when they're proven. When they are fact.

This :
Quote:
That liberals always side with terrorists and hate Israel?

is what is known as a " Stereotype " and a bad one at that.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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