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Humanitarian aid flotilla attacked.... - Page 6

post #201 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

And before you get all gooey and sentimental remember this - there is overwhelming evidence that these terrorists had wooden sticks

FACT

I take it you haven't bothered to look at the video evidence?
post #202 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

I take it you haven't bothered to look at the video evidence?

All of it is is Israeli whitewash propaganda. It does not square with the accepted facts.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #203 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Not really...I mean it may be but I don't think your eyesight is equipped to adequately detect it.

I think the real hypocrisy would be for the person (you?) who steps up to the plate to argue that the handful of Israelis killed by the rockets are worth more than the thousands of Palestinians killed in the same timeframe.

But maybe that would not be hypocrisy. Maybe that would be something far worse.

You speak very dismissively of the rocket attacks and that doesn't help your cause. Those who are killed on both sides of this ridiculous war (which maybe would have been avoided if Egypt would have just taken back Gaza like Israel wanted them to in the first place) are consequential. All of the deaths matter.

I believe that the perception that you believe some people have that Israeli lives are worth more than Palestinian lives stems from a reaction to the perception that they have of you that those Israeli lives are worth nothing at all. You don't really do much to dispel the latter.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #204 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

I guess jewish soldiers had to make sure that if they shoot someone they are not just dead but VERY VERY dead.

Let me ask, if you are shot in the chest or in the head, how much does the number matter after the first one or two?

I cannot say for sure why the guy was shot five times, but if I had to guess, it was somewhat of a panic fire situation. You drop on the boat expecting to be accosted verbally or maybe to deal with a couple of hotheads. You have a paintball gun and a backup pistol in case things get out of hand. When you land you are beaten with metal rods, clubs, stabbed with knives and thrown over the side of the ship. At this point, your life is in danger and training takes over. What is the training for a military person. Chest and head. Now he is panicked, so he will be firing fast and furious. After the chest and/or head should he have stopped? Yes. But dead is dead at this point. There is more than one side to this, Israeli commandos feel fear too...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #205 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Let me ask, if you are shot in the chest or in the head, how much does the number matter after the first one or two?

I cannot say for sure why the guy was shot five times, but if I had to guess, it was somewhat of a panic fire situation. You drop on the boat expecting to be accosted verbally or maybe to deal with a couple of hotheads. You have a paintball gun and a backup pistol in case things get out of hand. When you land you are beaten with metal rods, clubs, stabbed with knives and thrown over the side of the ship. At this point, your life is in danger and training takes over. What is the training for a military person. Chest and head. Now he is panicked, so he will be firing fast and furious. After the chest and/or head should he have stopped? Yes. But dead is dead at this point. There is more than one side to this, Israeli commandos feel fear too...

As far as I remember my training, my assault rifle had 2 settings: single shot and rapid fire. There is no way one soldier could have accomplished this. The person would have gone down before a second shot to the head could have been fired. This only leaves joy of murder. A trained professional would have never wasted this many bullets on disabling one person. That just does not make sense. Any trained soldier would not loose his cool like this especially israeli soldier who dealt with Munich and other situations. These guys don't f around.

One more thing. Israeli soldiers inspecting a ship bound for Gaza have no expectation of eminent danger .... yeah rite, what a crock.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #206 of 392
Does anyone know why some journalists and some posters here, are saying the Israeli's used paintball guns? That just strikes me as absurd and maybe even deliberate misinformation designed to make the Israeli's look like Commando Picasso's, more interested in aesthetics than fear, death and prolonged agony.

They may as well have hijacked the ship with water pistols. The Israeli's regularly use rubber bullets, which aren't like regular full rubber bullets, instead they're metal bullets coated in rubber that often cause serious injury and death. I believe they're now using sand bullets too, which are very painful but much less damaging.

The Commando's had paintball guns that fired rubber bullets.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #207 of 392
Taken and shot in the head at point blank range is murder isn't it?

- http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...e-gaza-account
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #208 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

As far as I remember my training, my assault rifle had 2 settings: single shot and rapid fire. There is no way one soldier could have accomplished this. The person would have gone down before a second shot to the head could have been fired. This only leaves joy of murder. A trained professional would have never wasted this many bullets on disabling one person. That just does not make sense. Any trained soldier would not loose his cool like this especially israeli soldier who dealt with Munich and other situations. These guys don't f around.

One more thing. Israeli soldiers inspecting a ship bound for Gaza have no expectation of eminent danger .... yeah rite, what a crock.

Delete. Sorry double post.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

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post #209 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

As far as I remember my training, my assault rifle had 2 settings: single shot and rapid fire. There is no way one soldier could have accomplished this. The person would have gone down before a second shot to the head could have been fired. This only leaves joy of murder. A trained professional would have never wasted this many bullets on disabling one person. That just does not make sense. Any trained soldier would not loose his cool like this especially israeli soldier who dealt with Munich and other situations. These guys don't f around.

One more thing. Israeli soldiers inspecting a ship bound for Gaza have no expectation of eminent danger .... yeah rite, what a crock.

I'm just guessing here. Maybe they shot him in the chest, he fell to the ground and rather than take him into custody and get him medical treatment, they did what they did to plenty of others there, which is make an example of him to anyone there and anyone planning any future trip by shooting him four times in the head. Kind of a shame for them that he was an American who was born in America, but I guess he didn't look to them like that's where he'd been born or that might have given them second thoughts.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #210 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

All of it is is Israeli whitewash propaganda. It does not square with the accepted facts.

Facts? You mean prepared lies by a group trained and sponsored by terror organizations?
Let me guess, whenever a terrorist claims they were tortured, you believe them correct? Are you saying the videos were altered? Was J. Cameron involved?
post #211 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I'm just guessing here. Maybe they shot him in the chest, he fell to the ground and rather than take him into custody and get him medical treatment, they did what they did to plenty of others there, which is make an example of him to anyone there and anyone planning any future trip by shooting him four times in the head. Kind of a shame for them that he was an American who was born in America, but I guess he didn't look to them like that's where he'd been born or that might have given them second thoughts.

I'm guessing he was shot after he was taken to Turkey.
Americans can be part of terror organizations too.
post #212 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

I'm guessing he was shot after he was taken to Turkey.
Americans can be part of terror organizations too.

Your remarks are in these threads might be exaggerated to gain popularity with noahj but hey, let's pretend that you're right. If they could prove any of the 600 or so were terrorists they would have had good reason not to release them, no?
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

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post #213 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Facts? You mean prepared lies by a group trained and sponsored by terror organizations?
Let me guess, whenever a terrorist claims they were tortured, you believe them correct? Are you saying the videos were altered? Was J. Cameron involved?

Are you reading the names of the people you are responding to here? Or just shotgunning out answers? My post was clearly sarcasm and me showing my highly sinister () side....
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #214 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Are you reading the names of the people you are responding to here? Or just shotgunning out answers? My post was clearly sarcasm and me showing my highly sinister () side....

Oops. I was in a hurry and only read the posts.
post #215 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Your remarks are in these threads might be exaggerated to gain popularity with noahj but hey, let's pretend that you're right. If they could prove any of the 600 or so were terrorists they would have had good reason not to release them, no?

Have they all been released? Technically, since the mission was sponsored by terror organizations, they all have ties to sponsors of terror, and are thus terrorists themselves.
post #216 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

As far as I remember my training, my assault rifle had 2 settings: single shot and rapid fire. There is no way one soldier could have accomplished this. The person would have gone down before a second shot to the head could have been fired. This only leaves joy of murder. A trained professional would have never wasted this many bullets on disabling one person. That just does not make sense. Any trained soldier would not loose his cool like this especially israeli soldier who dealt with Munich and other situations. These guys don't f around.

You may very well be right. Especially if the person was shot with an assault rifle. I am betting it was not a rifle but a pistol which only has 1 setting I am aware of. Semi-auto. I understood that assault rifles had 3 settings. Single shot, 3 round burst, and full auto.... Perhaps that is only for American military. However, dead is dead.

Quote:
One more thing. Israeli soldiers inspecting a ship bound for Gaza have no expectation of eminent danger .... yeah rite, what a crock.

What, you don't think they believed the press about this being a humanitarian flotilla and would not be loaded with belligerent people who would attack landing commandos swinging wiffle bats with no thought for their own safety?

I think they screwed up with much of how they executed this. But I honestly believe they did not intend for anyone to die or get hurt. Of course, Israel is evil, so I must be wrong. They are also stupid as they did this on a highly watched flotilla, but they also control the media, what with them being Jewish, so who cares right?

The story will come out. Those who care for the facts will wait, as I am. I am calling for calm and patience, those of you panting for Israeli blood cannot wait, fine.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #217 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Have they all been released? Technically, since the mission was sponsored by terror organizations, they all have ties to sponsors of terror, and are thus terrorists themselves.

All are going to be released and practically all of them already have been. Maybe Israel likes to free terrorists?
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #218 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Maybe Israel likes to free terrorists?

Unfortunately, rather than mass executions, Israel does have a history of releasing terrorists.
post #219 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Unfortunately, rather than mass executions, Israel does have a history of releasing terrorists.

Clearly they do. They should learn from the US and kill them, mass style. Give them a little shock and awe to ponder.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

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post #220 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Clearly they do. They should learn from the US and kill them, mass style. Give them a little shock and awe to ponder.

I believe they will take a tougher stance, now that the US Administration has abandoned them. I imagine H. Clinton will be dispatched on another apology tour.
post #221 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

I believe they will take a tougher stance, now that the US Administration has abandoned them. I imagine H. Clinton will be dispatched on another apology tour.

The US abandon Israel, really?

Answering my own question from earlier, I think the paintball guns fire rubber bullets, not paintballs.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #222 of 392
Relavent to thread it is worth posting the Flotilla Choir's latest gem:

We Con the World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGG_...ayer_embedded#!

The chorus is so so entertaining =>

We'll make the world
Abandon reason
We'll make them all believe that the Hamas
Is Momma Theresa
We are peaceful travelers
We're waving our own knives
The truth will never find its way to your TV
post #223 of 392
Thread Starter 
There is another ship, the "Rachel Corrie" (named after an American girl who was murdered by the IDF using a bulldozer), heading for Gaza with 500 tons of aid. The ship left Ireland after it was inspected. The inspection revealed that there are no weapons on board.

However, the Israeli leader says that they will not permit the ship to reach Gaza under any circumstances. This has nothing to do with weapons or rocket attacks into Israel: this is about blind hatred, and maintaining the collective punishment of an population of people, which is illegal under international law.
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #224 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

There is another ship, the "Rachel Corrie" (named after an American girl who was murdered by the IDF using a bulldozer), heading for Gaza with 500 tons of aid. The ship left Ireland after it was inspected. The inspection revealed that there are no weapons on board.

However, the Israeli leader says that they will not permit the ship to reach Gaza under any circumstances. This has nothing to do with weapons or rocket attacks into Israel: this is about blind hatred, and maintaining the collective punishment of an population of people, which is illegal under international law.


It's called a blockade. Ever hear of one? The purpose of which is to stop rockets, bombs, guns and terrorists from entering Gaza. If humanitarian aid were the purpose or goal, they would dock in Egypt, where the goods would be trucked into Gaza.
Doesn't Gaza and the West Bank already get more humanitarian aid per capita than any other region on Earth?
post #225 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

I believe they will take a tougher stance, now that the US Administration has abandoned them. I imagine H. Clinton will be dispatched on another apology tour.

Gee! When did that happen? Once again that would be big news!

Do you have a link that proves this?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #226 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Gee! When did that happen? Once again that would be big news!

Do you have a link that proves this?

A link for my opinion? Let me check Wikipedia...
post #227 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

There is another ship, the "Rachel Corrie" (named after an American girl who was murdered by the IDF using a bulldozer), heading for Gaza with 500 tons of aid. The ship left Ireland after it was inspected. The inspection revealed that there are no weapons on board.

However, the Israeli leader says that they will not permit the ship to reach Gaza under any circumstances. This has nothing to do with weapons or rocket attacks into Israel: this is about blind hatred, and maintaining the collective punishment of an population of people, which is illegal under international law.

Yes, because modern technology does not allow for illicit materials to be transported onto a ship after it has left the port.
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post #228 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Yes, because modern technology does not allow for illicit materials to be transported onto a ship after it has left the port.

I don't understand what the issue with inspections on both sides is? If not Israel, then Egypt.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
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post #229 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

She couldn't outrun a bulldozer?

It's comments like this that make people wish that you never open your mouth in agreement with them.

You hurt your own cause by conversing like this.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #230 of 392
There's also far worse ethnic oppression going on in the world right now. I understand why the right wing has a boner for this conflict: because their Holy Land and Muslims are involved. Why does the left wing have such a boner for it? Because they need to blindly oppose the right at every turn?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #231 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

It's comments like this that make people wish that you never open your mouth in agreement with them.

You hurt your own cause by conversing like this.

I am going to agree with you here 100%. That comment was completely tasteless...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
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post #232 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

It's comments like this that make people wish that you never open your mouth in agreement with them.

You hurt your own cause by conversing like this.

She was acting as a human shield. Her own stupidity killed her. She wasn't murdered. She wanted to be a martyr. I'm not going to shed a tear for someone who encouraged acts of terror. Perhaps you should research the story a little more.
post #233 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

She was acting as a human shield. Her own stupidity killed her. She wasn't murdered. She wanted to be a martyr. I'm not going to shed a tear for someone who encouraged acts of terror. Perhaps you should research the story a little more.

Why not say so instead of making disgusting, flippant comments? You really need to learn how to take part in an adult conversation in such a manner as not to instantly alienate everyone to whom you speak.

I do not like it when our opinions coincide because I know you will hurt the cause I believe in by opening your mouth in a very horrible manner.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #234 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Why not say so instead of making disgusting, flippant comments? You really need to learn how to take part in an adult conversation in such a manner as not to instantly alienate everyone to whom you speak.

I do not like it when our opinions coincide because I know you will hurt the cause I believe in by opening your mouth in a very horrible manner.

I assumed those commenting about her would have known her story. I don't have any sympathy 'martyrs' like her.
Here's your hero burning an American flag. I can't find the one of her burning President Bush in effigy.

post #235 of 392
There is nothing wrong with burning an American flag. There is something wrong with ceasing to communicate like an adult. Please go away.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #236 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

There is nothing wrong with burning an American flag. There is something wrong with ceasing to communicate like an adult. Please go away.

Put me on ignore then.
post #237 of 392
Quote:
Rachel Corrie's Dreams

The publication of Let Me Stand Alone: The Journals of Rachel Corrie adds yet another item to the growing body of Corrie memorabilia.

The twenty-three-year-old American from Olympia, Washington, died in Gaza in March 2003 when, as a member of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), she tried to obstruct an IDF bulldozer that, according to the IDF, was destroying rocket launchers in the overgrown brush near a Palestinian home.

An official Israeli investigation concluded that her death was an accident. The driver, in the 10 foot-high bulldozer with its limited visual field, could not see Corrie, who was hidden by a mound of dirt or standing in a trench in the military security zone. The Israeli autopsy report determined that she had been killed by a blow to the head from debris probably dislodged by the bulldozer.

However, the ISM and other activists insisted the driver had seen Corrie, and intentionally killed her. They released two photographs for evidence. The first showed Corrie standing in full view of the bulldozer, shouting at the driver through a bullhorn she was holding. In the second photo, she lay crumpled on the ground in front of the bulldozer. Within hours of the photos release, observers noticed from the position of the sun that the two photos had been taken hours apart, and that the bulldozer in the first picture was not the same as the one in the second. Other questions surrounded her death: had she died on the spot, in the ambulance or in the hospital emergency room; did the Gazan doctor do all he could to save her?

Despite these questions, the ISM and other anti-Israel activists seized upon Rachels death for public relations purposes. The young American instantly became their poster child, an alleged symbol of youthful idealism, Palestinian victimization, and Israeli brutality. As a Hamas activist said at Rachels funeral, 'Her death serves me more than it served herHer death will bring more attention than the other 2,000 martyrs.'. Corrie was the first American to be hailed as a Palestinian martyr. It is not surprising that these activists refuse to even entertain the possibility that her death was an accident. If it were, she would no longer be a useful symbol for indicting Israels self-defense measures and its very right to exist.

The efforts to elevate Rachel into a martyred idealist and artist began immediately, followed shortly by efforts to portray her as a new Anne Frank. Today there are Rachel Corrie memorial websites, scholarship funds, and events commemorating the anniversary of her death. More well-known is the controversial play based on her diaries, My Name is Rachel Corrie, which had runs in London, Seattle, New York and other U.S. cities. Her parents, who had never shown interest in the Middle East conflict, are now regulars on the international anti-Israel lecture circuit. This spring, they appeared at several southern California anti-Zionism week events, which are mounted annually by campus Muslim Student Associations. Corrie has also become the cause celebre for divest-from-Israel campaigns whose new strategy is to focus on the Caterpillar Corporation, primarily because a Caterpillar bulldozer was involved in her death. The family and other Palestinians brought a suit against Caterpillar in U.S. federal court for its complicity in Israels inhumane actions. The court dismissed the suit in July 2007 for being a political issue outside the courts jurisdiction.


Now yet another item has been added to the Rachel Corrie industry: the book, Let Me Stand Alone: The Journals of Rachel Corrie edited by her family with an introduction by her father, and released in 2008.

She was, first and last, a writer and artist, her father writes in the introduction, and her family evidently wanted to give her, posthumously, the writing career she sought. According to her father, In offering Rachels writing to the public, our family helps her complete the journey to become a published author.

Her depiction of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and of Gaza in the journals seems almost quaint, an echo of Palestinian propaganda from the days before Israels disengagement, the brutal Hamas coup, and surfacing reports that Hamas charges a $3,000 tax on owners of Gazas 150 tunnels -- the very kinds of tunnels Rachel was trying to protect. Historians may find the Journals useful for documenting the stages of the propaganda war against Israel.

The Journals are of interest primarily because they provide insight into how a young American girl ended up in Gaza with the ISM, trying to protect terrorist operations and demonizing Israel, about how anti-Israel propaganda and the ISM work, and about who or what actually killed Rachel Corrie.

Little in her diaries and writings suggested her future activities. She had what comes across as an almost idyllic childhood in a semi-rural area of Olympia, with an older sister and brother and doting, modestly middle class parents who liked camping and the out-of-doors, and who encouraged her writing, drawing and ballet, and seemed to help cultivate her belief that she had a special potential. Raised in a nurturing home and apparently nurturing schools, she had little reason to doubt herself or doubt that the fire in my belly was a sign of artistic drive and of achievements to come.

Her more rebellious teen and college years were filled with intermittent depression, struggles with her mother, neo-beat activities, all-night drug and alcohol parties, a job on the graveyard shift of a mental health service for low-income clients, cigarette smoking in the early dawn streets with the towns derelicts after her shift, and bouts of agoraphobia.

The diaries demonstrate little introspection. Rachel Corrie rarely questioned herself, her opinions, or her motives. In her writings, she attempted no human portraits, except very brief ones of her first love, Colin, and even these are about how he reacts to her. Hers is a hermetic world, and her idealism was similarly focused inward -- an inchoate, vague passion that fastened on a variety of the progressive causes espoused by her family, home town, and college, Evergreen.

All this made Rachel ripe fodder for the ISM. This Palestinian-led organization callously recruited idealistic, naïve internationals to break Israeli law, violate IDF security zones, indoctrinate them with its peculiar version of the conflict, and to groom them as future speakers for its anti-Israel cause. While soothing volunteers by insisting that ISM engaged only in non-violent resistance, the organization nonetheless defended and abetted Palestinian violence (its website affirmed the right to armed resistance against occupation) and was committed to dismantling Israels counter-terrorism measures which were intended to prevent the mass murder of Israelis.

Paradoxically, the ISM described the Territories as a war zone where Israel wantonly killed Palestinians, but assured volunteers that they would not be harmed because of their international white-person privilege, in the words of the diaries, and that the greatest risk they faced was arrest and deportation even though none of us have done anything illegal.The ISM was offering tantalizing heroism: the chance to stand up against an unjust military power as a human shield with any personal danger neutralized by a white person privilege as protective as a superheros invisible shield.

Despite these reassurances, the ISMs own website admitted that if an international was harmed, the resulting media attention would help its cause. The ISM intentionally exploited the idealism of young foreigners, misled them into believing violating Israeli law and military security was not illegal, and intentionally put them in extremely dangerous situations.

The second culprit should be Corries school, the progressive Evergreen College, which irresponsibly encouraged her participation with ISM. Corrie wrote that the course that most affected her was Local Knowledge, whose primary purpose was to get students involved in community activism for progressive causes. The class focused on the links between historic repression, racism, propaganda campaigns and xenophobia to our present situation. She concluded that its important that human rights and resistance to oppression be included in the way we define ourselves as a community. Maybe it was in this class, too, that she learned that the United States is perhaps one of the most racist countries in the world.

She had had no particular interest in the Middle East or knowledge about it, but spurred by the class, she began attending Olympia Movement for Justice and Peace (OMPJ) meetings since anti-Israel activism was one of the smorgasbord of causes. There she uncritically absorbed OMPJs ideology and learned about people offering themselves as human shields in Palestine, and heard ISM activists talk about their Freedom Summer in Palestine in September 2002. She was inspired: They say we are invited there. I cant believe this can be true. Even me?

She eagerly signed up, and her indoctrination continued. She began ISM training and reading ISM recommended tracts about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and staple anti-Israel narratives from Amira Hass, Sarah Roy, Noam Chomsky, Al-Ahram Weekly, and journalist Graham Usher. The three Evergreen faculty and staff members she consulted included Simona Sharoni, an Israeli who co-founded Women in Black. They did not try to dissuade her from going.

There is an air of unreality in all of this. Neither Corrie, nor the faculty, nor the ISM activists ever acknowledged she would be entering a war zone. Suicide bombing in Israel had reached a peak in early 2002, and Israel had launched Operation Defensive Shield to wipe out the terrorist networks in late March and early April. The violent conflict was still intense when Rachel chose to go to meet the people who are on the other end of the portion of my tax money that goes to fund the U.S. and other militariesand to get the learning that comes from traveling while hopefully having my trip have some use to the people I am going to see. No one warned her that entering a war zone was not just an interesting travel experience.

She was oblivious to the larger context of the conflict and to her surroundings, and her apparent lack of curiosity about them, is breathtaking. There is not a word in the journals about the terrorist campaign unleashed on Israel in September 2000, not a word that reveals that Gaza, especially Rafah (where Corrie stayed) was a hotbed of terrorism and arms smuggling. She apparently never watched the videos of suicide bombers last statements, or questioned the increasing radicalization of Palestinian society. Rachel never mentions the Palestinian Authority or Yasser Arafat, and gives no inkling of Gaza as a clan-based society with competing clans vying for power. There is no sense that she tried to understand or was even aware of the society in which she now lived.

Nor did she make any effort to analyze Israels predicament. Her radical sources convinced her that Sharons fingerprints were on Palestinian suicide bombings: Sharons policy is assassination-during-peace-negotiations/suicide attack within the green line/land grab strategy, which is working well now to create settlements all over the Occupied Territories. and again--Sharon has I think pretty much admitted that suicide bombings are a way of getting more land under the guise of security.

She continually imposed her own grid of beliefs to interpret facts on the ground. She defended terrorism when she acknowledged it existed, claiming that international lawrecognizes the right of people to legitimate armed struggle. If people in her hometown of Olympia faced the dire conditions Gaza faced, she rhetorically asked her mother, dont you think we might try to use somewhat violent means to protect the edge of the greenhouses, to protect whatever fragments remained? Unless her family excluded them from the published journals, she also made no mention of Israeli terror victims. Instead, she claimed that the vast majority of Palestinians right now, as far as I can tell, are engaging in Gandhian non-violent resistance -- a counterfactual observation that led Times of London reviewer Clive Davis to write that Even the late Yassir Arafat might have blushed at that one.

Finally, what is most curious about Corries Journals is that hard as she tried to impose the ISM narrative on what she saw, her reports constantly contradicted this narrative, though she didnt recognize the contradictions.

She wrote that decades of occupation had oppressed Palestinians, yet Gazans kept saying that their difficult situation was due to the Intifada and to Israels subsequent counterterrorism measures, not to a decades-old occupation. One Gazan said, There was a peaceful time in the late seventies and early eightiesthings were better before Sharonthat is, before Sharon became Prime Minister in 2001. (253) Another told her: Beforeno tanks, no bulldozers, no gunshots. Quiet.No noise. After Intifada, daily. Gunshots daily.

She even confirmed that conditions in Gaza worsened only with the Intifada. She wrote that 60,000 people from Rafah had worked in Israel in 2001, but that the number had dropped to 600 by 2003. But she never drew the logical conclusion that her Gazan informants kept repeatingthe terrorist campaign had forced Israel to take defensive measures.

Similarly, Corrie demonized the Israeli soldiers, but they hardly appear demonic. When she and other internationals stand in front of the tanks, the soldiers open their weird tank lids and wave at us. The Israeli district command officer worked to ensure the safety of Palestinian workers.

Nor, to her surprise, were Palestinians afraid of the soldiers. When a Gazan runs from his home with his two children after ISM mistakenly informed him that his house was to be demolished, she was terrified to think that this man felt it was less of a risk to walk out in view of the tanks with his kids than to stay in his house. She tried to interpose herself between him and the tanks, yet he clearly did not need her protection. Children play in full view of the tanks, apparently unafraid. (She was stunned to find that despite tanks and bulldozers passing by, all of these people are genuinely cheerfuleven though this did not fit into her preconceived notions. When IDF soldiers entered a house to position themselves on the roof, no one was bothered or harassed. The children just watched cartoons on TV.

Indeed, despite Israels counterterrorism measures, Palestinians were free to carry on their usual activities and even anti-Israel rallies. While she was there, Eid celebrations were held, and so was the anti-Israel, anti-US rally where Rachel burned a paper replica of the American flag. Such rallies were held even though, according to Corrie, a former IDF commander expressed concern that terrorists would sneak into our political protest and attack settlements.

While she claimed that the IDF bulldozed homes even though families were still inside, she also admitted (on page 311) that most of the homes were empty during these IDF operations. While she and other internationals denounced the checkpoints, they nonetheless described them as similar to the security checks at international airports.

Oddly, too, while Rachel condemned various IDF actions that she witnessed, she inadvertently revealed that they were justified. When she and other ISM internationals ran to retrieve the body of a martyr, she did note that the terrorist group, DFLP, had sent him on his mission to attack soldiers. While she bemoaned the IDFs destruction of Gazan homes, she admitted that most were located near tunnelsthe arms smuggling tunnels the IDF was trying to destroyor just along the border, precisely where Israel was trying to create a buffer zone to prevent more arms smuggling. She blamed the IDF for blowing up a Palestinian greenhouse, even while she acknowledged that someone from the Palestinian resistance had planted an explosive there and the IDF was merely defusing it.

The surreal thing is that we are safe here, she wrote. More surreal is the fact that Rachel Corrie, indoctrinated by the ISM, her college, and suspect sources, imposed her preconceived notions on a situation that did not match those preconceptions. Tragically, anti-Israel activists are exploiting her accidental death to promote this surreal narrative.

The greater tragedy is that her parents are doing the same. Their lack of curiosity about the ISM and their wholesale acceptance of its propaganda are startling, especially given that the ISM put their daughter in danger. Nor has evidence that the ISM activists sheltered known suicide bombers and terrorists, and was barred from entering Israel, dampened their defense of the organization. Instead of using their bitter experience as a warning to parents of other would-be ISM recruits, they are using their position as bereaved parents to win sympathy for the group most responsible for their daughters death.

Code:

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/the--self--deceit-of-rachel-corrie-11453?page=all



Quote:
Terrorist Martyr, American Style
By: Myles Kantor
Wednesday, April 02, 2003

Rachel Corrie served an evil cause, and paid the price.


The photograph is pitiful.

Shes dying in the Gaza Strip on a tract of earth. Her legs look like twigs. Blood streams from her nose.

"My back is broken," she says.

Rachel Corrie doesnt survive. Why did her life end like this?

Corrie was a 23-year-old senior at Evergreen State College in her hometown of Olympia, Washington. To gain a sense of Evergreens ideological orientation, its main area is called Red Square and cop killer Mumia Abu-Jamal has been a commencement speaker. (A "Brownshirt Square" would be inconceivable on a campus, but its ok to name a quad after another genocidal dogma.)

Corrie went to the Gaza Strip in 2003 as part of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM). Founded in 2001, ISM refers to a "right" of Palestinian "armed struggle" and seeks "to establish divestment campaigns in the US and Europe to put economic pressure on Israel the same way the international community put pressure [on] South Africa during the apartheid regimes."

ISMs online photo album includes a member shaking hands with Yasser ArafatISM member Adam Shapiro had breakfast with Arafat last yearand members leading protests in the Middle East with signs such as "America, Stop Supporting Apartheid" and "Ethnic Cleansing in Progress." Another photograph features graffiti by the terrorist Palestinian Liberation Front.

ISM members entered the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem last April to shield terrorists including members of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. Israel deported ISM member Susan Barclay this year after she worked with Hamas and Islamic Jihad in the West Bank.

Corrie did her part to incite anti-Americanism in the Gaza Strip, 70 percent of whose residents support suicide bombings according to a recent poll by the Gaza-based Palestinian Society for Culture, Science and Development. At a February 15 rally with schoolchildren, Rachel Corrie burned a paper version of the American flag.

Referring in February to "fighters" who "killed two of the illegal occupying force," Corrie wrote that "more Martyrs are ready to defend the honor of Palestine."

Corrie operated in the town of Rafah on the Egyptian border. Rafah contains what the Israel Defense Forces calls "an underground city of weaponry" through residential tunnels used to smuggle weapons from Egypt for terrorists.

The IDF notes, "The smuggling tunnels are often elaborate, and may contain wood-paneling, electrical infrastructure, communications equipment, and elevators. Small tunneling machines, imported with the full knowledge of the Palestinian Authority, are used to dig these subterranean passages."

The IDF demolishes such houses complicit in terrorism. Middle Eastern scholar Mitchell Bard explains this collective punishment as follows: "By demolishing homes, the objective isto demonstrate that terrorists bring destruction not only to their victims, but to their own families and communities. The hope is that before engaging in terrorism, a Palestinian might think twice about the consequences."

On March 16, the IDF demolished some homes in Rafah as a preventive measure against weapons smuggling. Corrie confronted a bulldozer that afternoon with a bullhorn and later knelt in front of it on a mound of earth. She lost balance as it proceeded and was crushed.

Arafats Fatah movement organized a wake for Corrie attended by members of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade.

This is the story of one American in the Middle East. Marla Bennetts is another.

Bennett grew up in San Diego and first visited Israel at 16. She reflected at the time, "Have you ever been somewhere with others, just thinking This is so right?"

Bennett graduated from the University of California at Berkeley in May 2000 and returned to Israel in the fall to attend the Pardes Institute of Jewish Studies and graduate school at Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Her arrival coincided with the beginning of the current intifada against Israel.

She wrote in May 2002, "I am extremely cautious about where I go and when; I avoid crowded areas and alter my routine when I feel at all threatened." Despite this everyday peril, Bennett also wrote that "Life here is magical" and "There is no other place in the world where I would rather be right now."

On Wednesday, July 31, Bennett was at Hebrew University for a final exam. She planned to return to San Diego on Friday for a friends wedding.

Shortly after 1:30 that afternoon, a member of Hamas detonated a bomb in Hebrew Universitys cafeteria that murdered nine and injured 85. Five Americans were among the dead, and Marla Bennett was one of them.

She was 24, and she never set Americas flag on fire.


Code:

http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=18996




Turns out she was brainwashed and used by the same type of groups who are using her today.
post #238 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

There is another ship, the "Rachel Corrie" (named after an American girl who was murdered by the IDF using a bulldozer....

I recall that incident - it wasn't that long ago - and it was not murder. Some choose to martyr themselves for "the cause." Perhaps it was more like a case of Darwin being proved right. Certainly standing in front of bulldozer is stupid and it may be a lot of things but murder is not part of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

There is nothing wrong with burning an American flag...

Nothing wrong with defending an American flag either...
post #239 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Nothing wrong with defending an American flag either...

I didn't say he didn't have a right to defend it. I said he should stop making flippant, insensitive remarks.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #240 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I didn't say he didn't have a right to defend it. I said he should stop making flippant, insensitive remarks.

You seem more reasoned on occasion than other pro-Israel supporters but I still have the feeling you sometimes even find it difficult to support them so unreservedly. It must be hard with some of their actions.

If you can be objective - and you are probably one of the few who can - then you might see what the problem actually is: it is that there is not a level playing field... Israel is literally a 'special case' where the rules that apply to everyone else do not apply.

This causes many things; extremism, feelings of injustice etc.

It is commonplace to say in these discussions "Israel respond to Hamas" or to put "the conflict" in a framework that implies two combatants on either side.

But the two are not the same as in say, the Iran/Iraq war - there is no equivalence because one of the combatants has a literal blank cheque to do whatever they wish.

So what can you do with that?

Look at this current example - an incident happened between Convoy A and Country B. Now if you were to look at this objectively, utterly devoid of context or names (if you can) then you would come to one conclusion and one only.

But because it is Israel then a different conclusion is reached.

You could imagine what would happen if Iran entered international waters and boarded a ship - and yes, let's say that the boarding party was met with clubs and knives. And the Iranians murdered 10 British or US.

What would happen?

You don't have to even postulate Iran. Say the US did it.

What would happen?

And what will happen here?

We need justice...not what I think is justice (being anti-Israel) or what you might or (God help us) the caped-Crusaders and defenders of Christendom above but REAL justice.

That's the thing that will solve the whole Middle Eastern conflict. It's not hard. the conflict has continued for so long because of the absence of it and that's why incidents like this happen. You let you dog off the lead long enough it will bite someone. And if nothing happens it will do ti again....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
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