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post #281 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Short of Israel going nuclear they could not win that confrontation.

They could hold them off until we, 'bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bombed Iran.'
post #282 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

They could hold them off until we, 'bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bombed Iran.'

You do realize that if that were to happen the US mainland would be hit hard.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #283 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You do realize that if that were to happen the US mainland would be hit hard.

Homicide bombers? Iran has nothing in their arsenal that can reach any part of the US.
post #284 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

If Iran wants war with Israel and the US, it's their deaths.

What's very amusing is the ambiguous pronoun usage here.

 

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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #285 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Homicide bombers? Iran has nothing in their arsenal that can reach any part of the US.

"Homicide bombers" WOULD cause major destruction on the US in the form of dirty nukes and attacks on stored nuclear waste. God knows what else too.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

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post #286 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

"Homicide bombers" WOULD cause major destruction on the US in the form of dirty nukes and attacks on stored nuclear waste. God knows what else too.

Pretty sure nuclear sites would be secured immediately.
There are plenty of empty FEMA camps which could be used for internment...
post #287 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

What's very amusing is the ambiguous pronoun usage here.

Pretty basic. A. Khamenei + M. Ahmadinejad + Iranians = their.
post #288 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Pretty sure nuclear sites would be secured immediately.
There are plenty of empty FEMA camps which could be used for internment...

Let's hope your right on the nuclear waste front, but I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that their an easy target. What about dirty nukes actually going off despite these unused FEMA camps? It's likely that they'd be used to contain any US citizen that could spread infection from a biological source. The Iranian's have advanced skills in that area medically that could very quickly be converted to weaponry, if they already haven't.

Maybe NK will get involved too. They may actually be able to reach the US with nukes, we really don't know for sure.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

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post #289 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Let's hope your right on the nuclear waste front, but I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that their an easy target. What about dirty nukes actually going off despite these unused FEMA camps? It's likely that they'd be used to contain any US citizen that could spread infection from a biological source. The Iranian's have advanced skills in that area medically that could very quickly be converted to weaponry, if they already haven't.

Maybe NK will get involved too. They may actually be able to reach the US with nukes, we really don't know for sure.

How would they make 'dirty nukes', if the nuclear facilities are secured? It is actually quite difficult to smuggle in and transport nuclear material within the US, or a jihadist group would have already done so.
The FEMA camps would be used as detention centers and internment camps, should Iranians and other Muslims in the US go homicidal.
If Iran attacked us with biological weapons, we would go nuclear, despite Obama''s rhetoric. Iran would be no more.
N. Korea isn't that stupid.
post #290 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

How would they make 'dirty nukes', if the nuclear facilities are secured? It is actually quite difficult to smuggle in and transport nuclear material within the US, or a jihadist group would have already done so.
The FEMA camps would be used as detention centers and internment camps, should Iranians and other Muslims in the US go homicidal.
If Iran attacked us with biological weapons, we would go nuclear, despite Obama''s rhetoric. Iran would be no more.
N. Korea isn't that stupid.


No terrorists have even tried getting a dirty bomb into the US. Iran would have all of it's resources to utilize and I don't think there's any way at all that the US could stop them setting off hundreds of dirty bombs, even thousands. Sure some of their attempts might fail but most probably wouldn't.

NK isn't that stupid as such but if things escalate and given what escalation means in that area, why wouldn't they want to take a shot at the US, when they're being blown to bits anyway?
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #291 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

If Iran wants war with Israel and the US, it's their deaths.

HMMM, let's see. Taliban is training in Iran, they produce IEDs en masse and we spent 1 Trill on 2 wars and haven't really won anything ... our boys are still getting killed and Iraq is ready to convert back to the way it was using their brand new US weapons ... yeah it's THEIR deaths, right. They turn off the oil spigot and the west goes down without a fight.

Iran is not at all what it seems. Our only hope is to support moderates in Iran, neither Israel nor the US can win this any other way.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #292 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

No terrorists have even tried getting a dirty bomb into the US. Iran would have all of it's resources to utilize and I don't think there's any way at all that the US could stop them setting off hundreds of dirty bombs, even thousands. Sure some of their attempts might fail but most probably wouldn't.

NK isn't that stupid as such but if things escalate and given what escalation means in that area, why wouldn't they want to take a shot at the US, when they're being blown to bits anyway?

How do you know?
What resources? Obtaining and transporting nuclear material isn't as easy as some would think.
N. Korea would be no more, that's why. They are all talk.
post #293 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

HMMM, let's see. Taliban is training in Iran, they produce IEDs en masse and we spent 1 Trill on 2 wars and haven't really won anything ... our boys are still getting killed and Iraq is ready to convert back to the way it was using their brand new US weapons ... yeah it's THEIR deaths, right. They turn off the oil spigot and the west goes down without a fight.

Iran is not at all what it seems. Our only hope is to support moderates in Iran, neither Israel nor the US can win this any other way.

There is a tremendous difference between total war and regime change and nation building. A war with Iran would be an air and sea war, not a war on the ground. We would immediately bomb their sea and airports, communications, military installations and infrastructure. They would be isolated and crippled within 1 week.

How much oil do you think we get from Iran?
We can't support any side in Iran, because that would be seen as a US coup, not a domestic one.
post #294 of 392
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Homicide bombers? Iran has nothing in their arsenal that can reach any part of the US.

You sure they don't? The great one third of the Axis of Evil can't even hit the US with one missile? Not even an IED on a parachute? They don't even have Saddam's flying lawn-mower bioweapons delivery system which had an apparent range of 12,000 miles... which could "hit any US of UK city within 45 minutes notice". Wow... there's more threat from the drunks in the local bar here downtown, than the whole of Iran.....

Ahmadinejad is nothing but a egocentric blowhard who's trying to tell the world he doesn't have a small dick; he'll go away in due course and become a brief footnote in history's non-statesmen. Yes. a nation 10,000 miles away, which has not attacked anybody in almost 3 centuries, and has no intention of doing so, is suddenly promoted as "a huge threat to US national security." You gotta laugh, really. What a pile of bull-biscuits, verging on Monty Python territory, it's so absurd.

The Iranian "threat" is being invented to (a) scare the terminally gullible US public int supporting yet another war based on lies, in order to (b) appease the treacherous Neocons, many of them being dual US-Israeli citizens (naturally well connected to the weapons industry) who were gagging for a series of Mid East wars as far back as the mid 1990s, and who started planning them 3 days after CheneyCorp started squatting the White House in January 2001. Iran's military efforts are aimed at dealing with local issues re. their neighbors and near neighbors. The greatest threat to Iran's national security is Israel, armed to the gills with WMDs of all description. Even if Iran was not developing a nuclear deterrent, they would be well advised to do so ASAP, in order to preserve relative stability in the region, and stave off Israeli expansionism and more US meddling (which has damaged, not enhanced, our own national security)....

Unless people are expect Iran's army, navy and airforce to send a huge military task force to physically cross to the other side of the world and attack the US.... gotta laugh again.

When Israel clicks its heels, the US snaps to attention.
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post #295 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Pretty basic. A. Khamenei + M. Ahmadinejad + Iranians = their.

No, pretty basic is you used their after several plural nouns. Hence the ambiguity. In your sentence, their could refer to the people of Iran, the US, or Israel.

I tend to side with the interpretation that involves all three countries. We shouldn't be looking for a war and we shouldn't be so pigheaded as to think the only casualties are going to come from Iran.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #296 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I think Iran is going too far here. There are better ways of pushing for change than risking a war, though some in the US and Israel seem hell bent on that idea anyway.

What do you think Turkey response would be? They've been close to Europe and the US, but anger at Israel is high.

Why do you think Israel and presumably a host of other countries, couldn't win a war with Iran without nuclear weapons? War with Iran would be an immense affair, even if they didn't have allies, but still.

My guess is that North Korea would be brought into it, but that will depend on what actions the US takes over the torpedo affair.

Sorry for all the questions but you seem to have excellent knowledge regarding these issues.

If Iran do try to support the Flotillas militarily I think it is a big mistake and possibly a provocation that might support SDW's general contentions about President A.

Really there is no reason for it and would be a totally stupid move. I don't think it will happen but if does then I think that it essentially means a war no?

Israel would not back down from a confrontation. If Iran did this and backed down they would lose face - so that's why I think it won't happen. Is bluster.

As to war: how would they do it? If Israel got into a war then the US would too by definition. At that point I think the US loses support of Saudi and moderates like Jordan.

You'd have the US troops pinned down in Afghanistan which could become the theater as Turkey, Iran, Syria and Iraq attack there. Turkey have one of the largest standing armies in the world and you have not just the Islamists launching suicide attacks but Iran also have such squads but on a trained military level with naval divisions etc.

You can't also predict which way Russian will go if the oil gets switched off to the West. That's a big carrot.

I can't see it happening though.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #297 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

HMMM, let's see. Taliban is training in Iran, they produce IEDs en masse and we spent 1 Trill on 2 wars and haven't really won anything ... our boys are still getting killed and Iraq is ready to convert back to the way it was using their brand new US weapons ... yeah it's THEIR deaths, right. They turn off the oil spigot and the west goes down without a fight.

Iran is not at all what it seems. Our only hope is to support moderates in Iran, neither Israel nor the US can win this any other way.

Iran could not survive a US military assault. Period.
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post #298 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I think that the idea is that everything is the will of God. Whatever you do.

I have a problem with that statement because it ignores the notion of free will. And, it ignores the human capacity to make mistakes and misinterpret.

Quote:

This is what I meant earlier that the West does not really understand the Easts conception. In the West, in a religious context, when something 'bad' happens then this is often attributed to the work of Satan or 'evil' but in Islam this is not the case as there is no opposite force to God in that sense nor can there be.

Satan himself is a very different character in Islam and not necessarily evil and sometimes even regarded as 'Good' certainly he has no power as such and is not a force that can challenge God. So when something happens - good or bad - then it is God's will by definition.

Uh...so why is the US called the Great Satan?

Quote:

So it is not a duty as such to follow the will of God - if you follow it is God's will you do, if you don't it is God's will you don't. This is quite clear in the Qur'an.

So if you're a follower/believer---everything you do is the will of God, regardless?

Quote:

Having said that I have to concede that to some degree you may have a point and there is a possibility that some Muslims may not actually act in accordance with this (whether Prez A falls in this category is debatable) but clearly Islamists of all kinds who want to 'make something happen' by violent means are acting against Islam and the Qur'an but this does not stop them.

It is bad theology actually - if God is all powerful and can do anything and all is His will then it follows that if (say for the sake of the current argument) Israel exists then it is clearly His will it does so. To try to change that is actually going against God and thus not really Muslims but they don't see it that way although imo they are wrong.

Where Prez A stands in relation to such beliefs I am not sure. I only know what the Shi'i beliefs are SUPPOSED to be. He may well have some heretic version of his own though I doubt it but to be fair to you, I suppose it is possible.

Of course its possible. It's the only way we can explain the actions of Iran's leadership. They are perverting Islam for their own purposes. In the least, they are misinterpreting. Then these people are coupling that perverted faith with nuclear weapons.
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post #299 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

A link for my opinion? Let me check Wikipedia...

I see one is your opinion and one is facts. Hmmm? Which do I choose?

Only posting your opinion ( whoever you are ) and never posting supporting evidence from a credible 3rd party on an internet forum isn't very convincing I'm afraid.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #300 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I have a problem with that statement because it ignores the notion of free will. And, it ignores the human capacity to make mistakes and misinterpret.

Well, that's your right. I'm just outlining the Islamic conception of Predestination.

Wiki

Although to be fair, there are differing theological opinions as to the extent of it.

Quote:
Uh...so why is the US called the Great Satan?

It is a quote of Khomeni's. It does not refer in the Persian to the actual Devil who is called 'Iblis' but means 'a devil' like you would say 'so and so is demonic' or something similar. Having said that he did actually call the US Iblis as well sometimes so it's a moot point.

There are many 'Satans' in Islamic theology, it is a plural or can be. Maybe people who use this term just want to suggest the US is something bad?

The Shaytan are not really evil though - they owe a lot more to the 'trickster' or 'fool' motif that is common in many traditional societies...as does Iblis who is even sometimes seen as a 'good Muslim' in some regards by some (admittedly heterodox) sects.

Quote:
So if you're a follower/believer---everything you do is the will of God, regardless?

That's my understanding. There are different schools and interpretations though. Many get hung up on semantics but it is essentially a restating of the age-old philosophical debate that Christianity solved with 'the fall' but Islam had to address in different ways.

But everything is God's Will regardless in this view...it is actually a more accurate attempt at a theological solution to the main religious problem of 'evil' than Christianity imo.

In Christianity, evil exists, God has foreknowledge and man has free will so the major problem is to explain evil.

The usual answer is 'it comes from Satan'. Fine, but where does Satan come from? God created him. Why if he had foreknowledge?

It's a problem. Islam sidesteps it by saying; in essence there is only the will of God. And we cannot understand it. It's an orthodox view:

Quote:
Question: If Allah wills everything, then can we say that Allah willed me to do x and y sins, and Allah is responsible for my not repenting, and Allah willed that I am a bad Muslim

Answer: Yes, we can say that Allah Willed me to do x, y, and also z. Nothing moves or is brought to rest, except by the Power of Allah, in accordance with that which His Will specified and what He knew with His Knowledge.

Hardcore Sunni Site and not my personal opinion - necessarily

Quote:
Of course its possible. It's the only way we can explain the actions of Iran's leadership. They are perverting Islam for their own purposes. In the least, they are misinterpreting. Then these people are coupling that perverted faith with nuclear weapons.

Maybe. If what you say is true then they are certainly perverting it. One might argue Shi'ism in general is a corruption.

Though it is a fact that several Iranian Mullahs have issued fatwas declaring nuclear weapons are haram (ie forbidden in Islam) so if you take these Imams as being sincere in their faith (if not then all bets are off anyway and anything is possible) then you must expect that they themselves would take steps to stop any programme. Perhaps already are doing if it exists - it would not be something broadcast to the West.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #301 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Iran could not survive a US military assault. Period.

The Taleban did.

The Iraq insurgency did.

I'm not sure that the US could neutralize Iran without troops on the ground at some point. If that happened I don't see how they could win. It would be a prolonged extension of the Afghan conflict but with no borders.

They'd be vulnerable on many fronts from many different threats; Islamists, Taleban, Turkish State army, Iranian Stare forces...quite possibly some home-grown resistance or maybe not....but it not cut and dried by any means.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #302 of 392
Thread Starter 
Here is a good indication that the blockade of Gaza is not about "alleged Hamas rocket attacks", but about collective punishment of the 1.5 million who "live" there. Here is a partial list of items either prohibited or permitted by the Israelis as published in this article in The Economist.

A fuller, but still incomplete list is here:

Many of the items on the prohibited list are a directly connected with the normal activities of many Palestinian farmers, fishermen and small holders. Some of the items on the permitted list, however, include aluminum (!), chemical fertilizers (!) and household cleaning agents... some of which could be very handy for bomb making, if there was a terrorism issue connected with the people of Gaza.

In the eyes of the Zionists, Hamas is not the problem. Palestinians are.
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post #303 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Here is a good indication that the blockade of Gaza is not about "alleged Hamas rocket attacks", but about collective punishment of the 1.5 million who "live" there. Here is a partial list of items either prohibited or permitted by the Israelis as published in this article in The Economist.

A fuller, but still incomplete list is here:

Many of the items on the prohibited list are a directly connected with the normal activities of many Palestinian farmers, fishermen and small holders. Some of the items on the permitted list, however, include aluminum (!), chemical fertilizers (!) and household cleaning agents... some of which could be very handy for bomb making, if there was a terrorism issue connected with the people of Gaza.

In the eyes of the Zionists, Hamas is not the problem. Palestinians are.

Some of those things being blocked are obviously not about terrorism. But they are about comfort. Looks like they are pressuring the government by making it hard on those they govern. Is it mean? Yes. Is it a human rights violation? I doubt it. Foods and supplies are allowed. All the usual suspects of not allowed items are there as well, such as military equipment and bomb making equipment. To focus on fertilizers and cleaning solutions is ridiculous as they do not state which ones are and are not allowed specifically. I am sure there is a comprehensive list that specifies varieties that are acceptable or not.

Not nearly as cut and dried as you try to make it seem.
NoahJ
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #304 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

They could hold them off until we, 'bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bombed Iran.'

Dude, play right into the caricature they have drawn for you.

Iran would not be able to effectively resist a frontal assault by the US alone. But it would not be a simple battle likely. Hopefully they (Iran) will not be this idiotic.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #305 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The US abandon Israel, really?

Answering my own question from earlier, I think the paintball guns fire rubber bullets, not paintballs.

Obviously intentions are still not for massacre if you are using paintball guns firing rubber bullets. So they are not as idiotic as I initially thought, they did intend to be able to stop attackers. But they did not intend to kill people as a first measure.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #306 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Your not alone! Noahj is quite simply not following threads outside his own very narrow viewpoint and his replies are often so skewed, irrelevant and hostile they show he seeks to agitate some other posters rather than have any interest in what they have to say. It's childish and boring and makes a mockery of PO.

Project much?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #307 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Dude, play right into the caricature they have drawn for you.

There are people who have well reasoned views. There are people that fall a little short of that. And there are people who just flat out are the reason the caricatures exist. Sorry to say it, but Steve distinctly falls into the latter category.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #308 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Dude, play right into the caricature they have drawn for you.

It was a J. McCain reference. Those less ignorant than yourself understood.
post #309 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Here is a good indication that the blockade of Gaza is not about "alleged Hamas rocket attacks", but about collective punishment of the 1.5 million who "live" there. Here is a partial list of items either prohibited or permitted by the Israelis as published in this article in The Economist.

A fuller, but still incomplete list is here:

Many of the items on the prohibited list are a directly connected with the normal activities of many Palestinian farmers, fishermen and small holders. Some of the items on the permitted list, however, include aluminum (!), chemical fertilizers (!) and household cleaning agents... some of which could be very handy for bomb making, if there was a terrorism issue connected with the people of Gaza.

In the eyes of the Zionists, Hamas is not the problem. Palestinians are.

I couldn't live anywhere without potato chips, I'd go nuts and start killing people!!

Seriously though, it's completely shocking what is happening.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

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post #310 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

It was a J. McCain reference. Those less ignorant than yourself understood.

I know what the reference was. Get over yourself man. No need to lash out for every little thing.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #311 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I know what the reference was. Get over yourself man. No need to lash out for every little thing.

Clearly you didn't. You are the one who attacked me. Didn't I tell you to put me on ignore?
post #312 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

If Iran do try to support the Flotillas militarily I think it is a big mistake and possibly a provocation that might support SDW's general contentions about President A.

Really there is no reason for it and would be a totally stupid move. I don't think it will happen but if does then I think that it essentially means a war no?

Israel would not back down from a confrontation. If Iran did this and backed down they would lose face - so that's why I think it won't happen. Is bluster.

As to war: how would they do it? If Israel got into a war then the US would too by definition. At that point I think the US loses support of Saudi and moderates like Jordan.

You'd have the US troops pinned down in Afghanistan which could become the theater as Turkey, Iran, Syria and Iraq attack there. Turkey have one of the largest standing armies in the world and you have not just the Islamists launching suicide attacks but Iran also have such squads but on a trained military level with naval divisions etc.

You can't also predict which way Russian will go if the oil gets switched off to the West. That's a big carrot.

I can't see it happening though.

I hope you're right and this doesn't even happen. I don't think it would necessarily mean a war. Given the added support that Israel attacking Iranian protected ships supplying humanitarian aid to Gaza would likely give to Iran, especially from Turkey, Israel might and it's a big might, back down, at least to the degree where they're not shooting at each other. If Israel holds off and attacks Iran, or the US attacks Iran, over it's nuclear program later, after supplying more proof (even if it's fuzzy truth), there's no way Turkey would even bat an eye. There are a lot of people and countries that would object to Israel going full blast at Iran over this. I really don't think Israel want's this to be the start of a major conflict, given how bad they already look.

What are the circumstances that offer Russia a big carrot? Are you saying that they would welcome a conflict, with their involvement supporting Iran, to help cripple the supply of ME oil, because the price of their oil would shoot up, or I am I completely off?
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #313 of 392
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Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Clearly you didn't. You are the one who attacked me. Didn't I tell you to put me on ignore?

No, you told me. You can't even keep who you blindly hate straight.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #314 of 392
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Originally Posted by BR View Post

No, you told me. You can't even keep who you blindly hate straight.

I wonder if he could remember if he could actually see what people looked like?
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

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post #315 of 392
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Originally Posted by BR View Post

No, you told me. You can't even keep who you blindly hate straight.

I don't reply to names, just ignorance.
post #316 of 392
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Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

How do you know?
What resources? Obtaining and transporting nuclear material isn't as easy as some would think.
N. Korea would be no more, that's why. They are all talk.

NK has likely got nukes, that it's unlikely, but nonetheless a possibility, that they could reach the US, they could reach Japan with much less trouble. Therefore if NK were to get a missile into the US, not even necessarily a nuke and the US then nuked NK, NK could nuke SK and or Japan. Would that really be a good idea then for the US to be the cause of Japan getting nuked again? NK might of course hold off on doing that, but they might not hold off too and they can certainly threaten it.


If anyone had tried to get a dirty bomb into the US they either succeeded and haven't assembled it fully or set it off yet or they got caught trying. If they got caught trying I suspect we would all know about it and know who it was that tried.

Iran itself has a lot of nuclear material, there's also talk of them getting it and nuclear equipment from NK. Iran has the potential to build the mother of all dirty bombs and the resources of IRAN to get them from A to B.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #317 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Clearly you didn't. You are the one who attacked me. Didn't I tell you to put me on ignore?

What you have shown is that you don't even keep track of who you are talking to. Let alone what they have said or believe.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #318 of 392
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Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

I don't reply to names, just ignorance.

That would create an infinite loop with yourself. Probably not the best idea for this thread as it would expand out of control. :P

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #319 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

NK has likely got nukes, that it's unlikely, but nonetheless a possibility, that they could reach the US, they could reach Japan with much less trouble. Therefore if NK were to get a missile into the US, not even necessarily a nuke and the US then nuked NK, NK could nuke SK and or Japan. Would that really be a good idea then for the US to be the cause of Japan getting nuked again? NK might of course hold off on doing that, but they might not hold off too and they can certainly threaten it.


If anyone had tried to get a dirty bomb into the US they either succeeded and haven't assembled it fully or set it off yet or they got caught trying. If they got caught trying I suspect we would all know about it and know who it was that tried.

Iran itself has a lot of nuclear material, there's also talk of them getting it and nuclear equipment from NK. Iran has the potential to build the mother of all dirty bombs and the resources of IRAN to get them from A to B.

I don't see any scenario where N. Korea would get involved. They aren't ready to die as martyrs, as many in Iran are. I am sure they also realize we can simultaneously bomb them, as well as Iran. Their 'tests' were inconclusive, so I doubt they have a bomb yet. They are looking for appeasement, nothing more.


I don't think it is likely any radiological material has been smuggled into and transported within the US. There is a vast system of sensors- both out to sea, on the highways and through various other means which would have picked up such smuggling. The most likely scenario would be a dirty bomb made with medical waste, but we keep pretty good track of that.

Not all successful or ongoing operations make the press.
post #320 of 392
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Originally Posted by BR View Post

That would create an infinite loop with yourself. Probably not the best idea for this thread as it would expand out of control. :P

Why don't you and your girlfriend put me on ignore?
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