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Apple yanks widget apps, likely to add feature to iPhone OS 4 - Page 4

post #121 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

It's also funny how you looking at one quarter with some major Android launches is fine, but me looking at a quarter with an iPhone launch that will blow those launches out of the water is incredibly narrow.

In addition to the year-to-date data already provided, and Gartners analysis forward through 2012 already provided, add these stats which cover the six months from Sep 2009 through Feb 2010:
Quote:
The report concluded that 45.4 million people in the United States were using smartphones in the period ending in Feb. 2010, which is a 21% increase over period ending last November. RIM still has a strong lead over the field, with 42.1% of the smartphone market share, and it rose by 1.3% over this period. But the most interesting story is the rapid rise of Android, whose share grew 5.2%. Apples share has remained stable, with a .1% drop.

http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/05/com...on-the-iphone/


As for where developers will be going next year, consider:

Im Abandoning iPhone Development. Mobile Orchard To Stop Publication.
http://www.mobileorchard.com/goodbye/

70% of iPhone developers heading to Android, says AdMob
http://www.mobile-ent.biz/news/36460...oid-says-AdMob

Android catches up to iPhone in dev interest as iPad cools
http://www.electronista.com/articles...oid.as.iphone/

Android Market app count surges 68% in March
http://www.electronista.com/articles....apps.tracked/

You just can't have abusive relationships with developers and not expect some blowback.
post #122 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Jobs just said yesterday that when apps are pulled from the store their is always more to the story than the developer is telling. Developers sometimes even lie.

URL demonstrating such a lie?

Quote:
He said Apple does not feel the need to constantly defend these choices.

So instead they offer no defense at all.

There wasn't a single point in his Thoughts About Flash that holds up to technical scrutiny. It was presented for the benefit of the lay press who don't have the knowledge to know where each point falls apart, but there are hundreds of tech blogs who've done that quite effectively.
post #123 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

The key to appreciating the horror of this latest anti-developer move by Apple is in this part of the story:



It's just an app, more like a screen saver than any "OS feature". Apple had published no guidelines suggesting it would not be acceptable, and indeed had approved the app for sale in their store - three times.

Stories like this are cropping up with a regularity that is quite dismaying to the developer world and, like the posters above, moving a great many of them to Android.

The problem is, to date, the Apple AppStore is still the most profitable place for a developer to be.
post #124 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

That would be the logical way to do it. To this date, I have yet to see Apple act logically about those sorts of issues. This is where having too much control to "craft an experience" starting making the company look like asshats in a much broader way.

Logical only if the centre of your universe is the developer and not the end user.

It's all about user experience, and I for one am thrilled Apple always honours this above all else (no matter what their interests are).

I don't think they look like "asshats" - if for one moment something about their devices isn't perfect in user experience, that information flies out (there enough anti-Apple pigeons to get that message sent far and wide!) gets out and grandma won't buy the device she's heard "just works and is so easy to use".

Assume for one moment the user and user experience are always central to all their decisions. At that point, all these decisions make perfect sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manzanaboy View Post

there's forums for windoze? man i'm oblivious! lol

Actually, there are no forums where people discuss how much they like Windows (there aren't enough winfans to form a quorum!), which is why they come a trolling here and on other Mac sites. ;-)
post #125 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamlondon View Post

Assume for one moment the user and user experience are always central to all their decisions. At that point, all these decisions make perfect sense.

Three words: hockey puck mouse.
post #126 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Three words: hockey puck mouse.

What? Didn't like the fact there weren't 3 buttons?
post #127 of 156
So you post some links that essentially show Android app development is growing. Which is perfectly natural as the Android platform grows. You are attempting show this as evidence that developers are leaving the iPhone because of Apple policies. I cannot find that conclusion from the information in those links.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

IAs for where developers will be going next year, consider:

You just can't have abusive relationships with developers and not expect some blowback.
post #128 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

URL demonstrating such a lie? So instead they offer no defense at all.

It's Apple's platform there is no reason why Apple has to get into petty back and forth arguments with disgruntled developers.

Quote:
There wasn't a single point in his Thoughts About Flash that holds up to technical scrutiny. It was presented for the benefit of the lay press who don't have the knowledge to know where each point falls apart, but there are hundreds of tech blogs who've done that quite effectively.

The fact that it's taking so much time and so much effort to get flash working is plenty of technical scrutiny. How much more scrutiny do you need?
post #129 of 156
Is RationalTroll the same as iGenius? I know I had the same debate when choosing to ignore him. There is some intelligence there, but he chooses to waste it trolling people.
The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
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The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
Reply
post #130 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

It's Apple's platform there is no reason why Apple has to get into petty back and forth arguments with disgruntled developers.

If there are lies it shouldn't be hard to turn up even a single example.

It's just not wise to take broad and unsupported claims at face value, whether it's Steve Jobs or anyone else.

Not everything you read on the Internet is true.
post #131 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

URL demonstrating such a lie?


So instead they offer no defense at all.

There wasn't a single point in his Thoughts About Flash that holds up to technical scrutiny. It was presented for the benefit of the lay press who don't have the knowledge to know where each point falls apart, but there are hundreds of tech blogs who've done that quite effectively.

If hundreds or thousands of developers are coding to the Flash api and effectively leaving Adobe to deal with Apple's framework, then all of these developers will be at the mercy of Adobe as to when they can support the latest features of an iPhoneOS. Worse yet, Apple themselves, will be at Adobe's mercy as to when applications will start supporting the latest features added to an OS release. If Adobe drags their feet, the iPhone potentially loses any edge it may have over other OSes. In fact, Adobe may choose to not support certain iPhoneOS features at all. Developers relying on the Flash api and Apple both get hijacked!!!
This point has been raised a few times, but no tech blog or otherwise, has given a solution to this problem. I agree SJ is a bit of a control freak, but some of his decisions do have sound technical justification.
post #132 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

New Android phones just introduced outsold a year old iPhone? Wow... The question was will they outsell the iPhone in 2010? As in the whole year, which includes the 4th gen iPhone launch. We all saw the sales numbers from the minimally upgraded 3GS, a significantly upgraded 4th gen model will destroy those. It's likely that Android phones will outsell the iPhone on a continuous basis, but I don't think 2010 will be that year. Try to be a little more rational and a little less troll.

My prediction is that the iPhone will allow Apple to jump back into the lead for 60-90 days if they stick to only ATT and then get hammered from then on.

Adroid hardware and OS will rev faster than Apple can, because you have many more players on the Android side.

If they open the iPhone up to Verizon then they maybe able to fend off Android for a while longer. However they still will only have 1 phone on two networks.

Apple has been rising over the last 5 years and iPhone was a leap ahead of the other sleeping competitors but those days are over. Google and even MS are back in the game. The iPad will enjoy a much shorter grace period before the flood of tablets from the others crash down.
post #133 of 156
Developers will probably be able to develop iPad widgets using Dashcode.
post #134 of 156
I don't get. Could someone pls define what is a widget exactly? How's it different from an app?
post #135 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

You didn't watch the keynote very closely. They specifically had the guy from Pandora on, saying how OS 4 lets you play radio in the background of other apps.

That's music though. As far as I understand, there's exceptions for specific functions right? I am not trying to troll here. I am genuinely interested in what isn't allowed in the background.

But it's nice that music is allowed. I suspect 90% of users are like me. Music in the background, something else in the foreground being worked on.
post #136 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Regardless of the thread title, you were talking about sales. It's also funny how you looking at one quarter with some major Android launches is fine, but me looking at a quarter with an iPhone launch that will blow those launches out of the water is incredibly narrow. Is the Droid still the best Android launch? That launch matched, in fact slightly bettered the original iPhones launch? The original iPhone took 60 days (or was it 90) to hit a million devices. The 3GS took three days. They are orders of magnitude different. I guess that doesn't matter because the EVO is apparently going to change the world (4 hours at a time).
...
Pretty good for one hardware vendor. If Apple was going for market share, they would license their OS, and make less money as a result.

Why be selective like that with statistics? Why this reference to one phone? When it comes to things like Apps, it's the whole ecosystem that matters. After all, that's exactly what makes an iTouch as potent as an iPhone. So why does it matter if any Android does or does not outsell the iPhone? Sure, bragging rights are nice. But that hardly matters to me if the apps I want on a platform are not there.

I think it's common sense that the if Android installed base beats out the iPhone OS installed base, that's where developers will go. The only reason they focus on the iPhone OS now is because it's the biggest market. Why would they stay if it's not the biggest market?
post #137 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

That's music though. As far as I understand, there's exceptions for specific functions right? I am not trying to troll here. I am genuinely interested in what isn't allowed in the background.

But it's nice that music is allowed. I suspect 90% of users are like me. Music in the background, something else in the foreground being worked on.

The multitasking APIs are:
  1. Background audio - Allows your app to play audio continuously. So customers can listen to your app while they surf the web, play games, and more.
  2. Voice over IP - Your VoIP apps can now be even better. Users can now receive VoIP calls and have conversations while using another app. Your users can even receive calls when their phones are locked in their pocket.
  3. Background location - Navigation apps can now continue to guide users who are listening to their iPods, or using other apps. iPhone OS 4 also provides a new and battery efficient way to monitor location when users move between cell towers. This is a great way for your social networking apps to keep track of users and their friends' locations.
  4. Push notifications - Receive alerts from your remote servers even when your app isn't running.
  5. Local notifications - Your app can now alert users of scheduled events and alarms in the background, no servers required.
  6. Task finishing - If your app is in mid-task when your customer leaves it, the app can now keep running to finish the task.
  7. Fast app switching - All developers should take advantage of this. This will allow users to leave your app and come right back to where they were when they left - no more having to reload the app.

Taken together, they cover the most common reasons for multitasking apps. Audio, VOIP, location are probably the most requested tasks that people want to be able to leave running. Local notifications allow you to receive alerts that are not sever based (i.e. an incoming call from Skype) so you get a key benefit of them running in the background without them actually running. Task finishing and fast user switching will allow for the appearance of traditional background apps (though it isn't identical to what we are accustomed to on the desktop).

Do they allow exactly the same type of multitask that we use on our desktop? Not exactly, but this isn't a desktop platform. I am always puzzled when people expect Apple should shoehorn a desktop experience into a mobile interface. They allow for the most common applications of multitasking without incurring all of the overhead that traditional app multitasking would have. Are there other areas that would benefit from additional multitasking APIs? Probably, but I can't actually think of any.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #138 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

... that hardly matters to me if the apps I want on a platform are not there.

That's precisely why it matters.

Please consider what I wrote before about the current and future state of the iPhone OS ecosystem:

Teachers can't use Squeak, researchers and engineers can't use MatLab, analysts (and most of the statistics world, including sociologists, research psychologists, engineers, biologists, etc.) can't use R, nor can anyone use any other tool that relies on interpreted languages.

Then add to that the many entire categories of apps that Apple is progressively shutting down from their new OS, such as the one which is the topic of this thread.

Then consider the many vertical-market apps that rely on cross-platform frameworks to be cost-effective, specialized tools for a million business, medical, and other niches that will never be allowed on iPhone OS until Apple backpeddles on Section 3.3.1.

Add all those together and that's several tens of millions of people; doctors, business owners, scientists, engineeers, professionals of all sorts who won't be able to do their work on iPhone OS - all choosing Android because Steve forced them to.

You can dismiss these audiences if you like. Enjoy your movies. But note that the business and science communities have needs for apps and modern app development workflows that Apple won't let them use on iPhone OS.

You will begin to see the effects of this within a year, and within three years the damage to the iPhone ecosystem will be irreversible.
post #139 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I think it's common sense that the if Android installed base beats out the iPhone OS installed base, that's where developers will go. The only reason they focus on the iPhone OS now is because it's the biggest market. Why would they stay if it's not the biggest market?

A larger Android market might mean devs also going into that area, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will leave the iPhone market. Between iPhones, iPod and iPads, Android will have to sell a whole lot of phones (and eventually tablets) to surpass the overall size of the current iPhone installed base. And while Android seems to be picking up steam, Apple could stop selling all of their iDevices and still maintain a sizable lead over the total Android market for sometime.

Why would they stay? Beyond the size of the already huge installed base (and growing) and that Android would have have to sell a shit load to not just over take iDevice sales but the existing base, there is the quality of the target audience. Apple's base is consistently upscale, educated consumers with a higher than average amount of expendable cash who have shown a willingness to spend on Apple products and the App Store.

Apple has made some discouraging moves with the platform. But at the same time, they have created a wonderful ecosystem that the majority of devs and users enjoy and benefit from. There are certainly warts, regardless of those that want to write anything negative off as whining, but the good vastly outweighs the bad.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #140 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by depannist View Post

The problem is, to date, the Apple AppStore is still the most profitable place for a developer to be.

For now. 3 years online Symbian app stores were the ones making money. There's no guarantee Apple will lead forever. There are some policies they need to change to maintain their lead.

They should be nice to developers. I will admit, that as long as the AppStore is the most profitable they can afford to dick developers around. However, I don't know if it's a good idea to build up animosity in your partners who are simply looking for an excuse and a viable option to exit the relationship.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

My prediction is that the iPhone will allow Apple to jump back into the lead for 60-90 days if they stick to only ATT and then get hammered from then on.

Adroid hardware and OS will rev faster than Apple can, because you have many more players on the Android side.

If they open the iPhone up to Verizon then they maybe able to fend off Android for a while longer. However they still will only have 1 phone on two networks.

Apple has been rising over the last 5 years and iPhone was a leap ahead of the other sleeping competitors but those days are over. Google and even MS are back in the game. The iPad will enjoy a much shorter grace period before the flood of tablets from the others crash down.

+1

iPad aside....

While it's not 2012 (with Android taking over). It's not 2007 either. Back then the option was between a terrible Windows Mobile phone, marginally better Palm Treo, a Sony Ericsson UIQ handset or a top of the game Nokia Symbian handset. None were even moderately close to the iPhone in user experience. However, that's not the case today. They've all advanced leaps and bounds. Or they are simply making way for more advanced platforms (no more UIQ or WinMo, Android and WinPho coming along).

I agree though, that what Apple does in the US and specifically with its restriction to one carrier is going to be the determining factor for a while to come. If there's no Verizon iPhone this year then 2010 might just be the year that Android beats the iPhone in full year sales.
post #141 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by capoeira4u View Post

I don't get. Could someone pls define what is a widget exactly? How's it different from an app?

An app is pretty much what you would think of. An application that runs when you tap on the icon. It's similar to double-clicking on a shortcut on your Windows/Mac desktop and being taken to that program. Pretty much all items on the iPhone/iPod/iPad are apps. All the user sees is a static image for the app.

To be really simple, a widget is an app that has another, more..."active", if you will, layer that sits on the desktop. It's essentially an simple app that runs in its own window on the desktop.

On Android, there are, in general, two kinds of widgets. The first kind can display up-to-date stocks, weather, news headlines, etc. Information that the widget's app was designed to pull from the internet is automatically pushed to the widget display on the desktop without the user having to do anything. But there can also be buttons so the user can interact with it (refresh, show next/last screen, etc).

The other kind on Android is the simpler toggle widget. Those are generally used to control items like WiFi, the radio, and screen brightness. Instead of having to dig through the settings menu, it sits right there on the screen. All you have to do is tap it like any other icon and it'll toggle through the settings for whatever it's controlling.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #142 of 156
post #143 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

A larger Android market might mean devs also going into that area, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will leave the iPhone market. Between iPhones, iPod and iPads, Android will have to sell a whole lot of phones (and eventually tablets) to surpass the overall size of the current iPhone installed base. And while Android seems to be picking up steam, Apple could stop selling all of their iDevices and still maintain a sizable lead over the total Android market for sometime.

Why would they stay? Beyond the size of the already huge installed base (and growing) and that Android would have have to sell a shit load to not just over take iDevice sales but the existing base, there is the quality of the target audience. Apple's base is consistently upscale, educated consumers with a higher than average amount of expendable cash who have shown a willingness to spend on Apple products and the App Store.

See my comment. I never disputed that the iPhone OS installed base was bigger. Nor did I suggest that developers would migrate as soon as Android sales surpassed the iPhone OS. What I am suggesting is that they will move if the Android installed base catches up or exceeds the iPhone OS installed base.

As for more "upscale, educated consumers"....is that really relevant? Let's say the iPhone customer base spends 10% more than Android customers. If Android's base grows 10-20% more than the iPhone OS base, then all of a sudden the profit differential isn't there. And this is not some idle scenario. Dedicated Android OEMs could easily pump out Android handsets that are within the telcos subsidy cap, so that Zero dollar Androids start becoming the norm. At that point, the Android installed base could grow exponentially.


But beyond that, I seriously doubt that this is a static picture and that the iPhone OS's customer base will consistently be more "upscale" or "educated consumers" forever. That held true when the iPhone was creaming dumbphones. I am sceptical it's equally applicable in the new era where virtually everybody will have a smartphone. Keep in mind that as much damage as the iPhone did to other smartphone platforms, it's biggest success was getting a lot of dumbphone users to upgrade. In a lot of cases, people went from a Motorola RAZR to the iPhone. These early adopters will invariably be more "upscale, educated consumers". Years from now when smartphones are the norm will there be such a huge disparity between the iPhone customer base and the Android customer base? I doubt it. And whatever differences there are could easily be overcome by size if Android does grow significantly larger. Just look at the difference between Mac and Windows. Sure Mac owner are more affluent. But where is all the development focus?
post #144 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

See my comment. I never disputed that the iPhone OS installed base was bigger. Nor did I suggest that developers would migrate as soon as Android sales surpassed the iPhone OS. What I am suggesting is that they will move if the Android installed base catches up or exceeds the iPhone OS installed base.

Sorry, if it came off like I was implying you said that, that wasn't my intent. Just that given the current size of Apple installed base and that it includes iPods (gigantic) and iPad, it will be quite some time before Android devices have a larger installer base than iDevices. In the meantime, Apple will have the continued opportunity to fine tune their experience, for users and for devs. They have made mistakes, IMO, and perhaps they will learn from them. I don't think very many, if any, have been fatal mistakes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

As for more "upscale, educated consumers"....is that really relevant? Let's say the iPhone customer base spends 10% more than Android customers. If Android's base grows 10-20% more than the iPhone OS base, then all of a sudden the profit differential isn't there. And this is not some idle scenario. Dedicated Android OEMs could easily pump out Android handsets that are within the telcos subsidy cap, so that Zero dollar Androids start becoming the norm. At that point, the Android installed base could grow exponentially.

It is relevant. Apple has shown that by targeting the cream, you can get the highest profits, even if you don't have the highest sales. While Android could some day overtake the installed base of iDevices, Apple has shown the ability to attract the more profitable segments. Android could quadruple the iDevice market, but if the market isn't as likely to spend money, are they as valuable a market?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

But beyond that, I seriously doubt that this is a static picture and that the iPhone OS's customer base will consistently be more "upscale" or "educated consumers" forever. That held true when the iPhone was creaming dumbphones. I am sceptical it's equally applicable in the new era where virtually everybody will have a smartphone. Keep in mind that as much damage as the iPhone did to other smartphone platforms, it's biggest success was getting a lot of dumbphone users to upgrade. In a lot of cases, people went from a Motorola RAZR to the iPhone. These early adopters will invariably be more "upscale, educated consumers". Years from now when smartphones are the norm will there be such a huge disparity between the iPhone customer base and the Android customer base? I doubt it. And whatever differences there are could easily be overcome by size if Android does grow significantly larger. Just look at the difference between Mac and Windows. Sure Mac owner are more affluent. But where is all the development focus?

True enough. But Apple fans in general, Mac and/or iDevice users, as you agree, remain the more affluent. Desktop development might favour Windows, just that is mainly because the Windows market so completely overshadows the Mac market. It is unlikely that in the near to medium term, Android could so overwhelm the iDevice installed base, that the higher per user profits on the iDevices are outweighed by the sheer number of Android users.

Could Android achieve parity with Apple's average consumer's spending ability? Probably. But then, why hasn't Windows closed that gap on the desktop? Mainly because they don't market to that segment, they go after the whole. Android appears to share that sentiment and this isn't a bad thing. It worked well for MS for a long time.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #145 of 156
Tulkas,

Would the push notification api facilitate a messenger app? So will MSN be able to run in the background?
post #146 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Tulkas,

Would the push notification api facilitate a messenger app? So will MSN be able to run in the background?

I would think the existing network server based APN would be sufficient for IM apps, at least I don't think the new local APN would add more for this type of app. In either case, no, the IM app would not run in the background but would have the appearance of it in terms of you receiving an alert/popup of the new incoming message. Also, in either case, there is the limitation of the current notification interface sucking donkey balls. For example, if you get 10 new IM messages in, your APN popup notification will only show 1. This is one area, I have heard, that the Android interface for notifications is superior.

The new local APN API is best suited for alerts that do not require network data. The example given by Apple would be a TV Guide app alerting you that a program is about to start, using locally available data. Another might be a social GPS app that could be configured to alert you when another user is in proximity (using both the new background location services API and the local APN API). A third example would be Skype or another VOIP app. Using the background VOIP API and the local APN API, you would get a popup as soon as a call came in, even though Skype was not running in the foreground (or really at all) and this would allow you to answer the call immediately.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #147 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

I would think the existing network server based APN would be sufficient for IM apps, at least I don't think the new local APN would add more for this type of app. In either case, no, the IM app would not run in the background but would have the appearance of it in terms of you receiving an alert/popup of the new incoming message. Also, in either case, there is the limitation of the current notification interface sucking donkey balls. For example, if you get 10 new IM messages in, your APN popup notification will only show 1. This is one area, I have heard, that the Android interface for notifications is superior. [snip]

The third-party app I use for texts takes care of multiple notifications on the same pop-up by putting them side-by-side. As in you swipe left/right to see the next/previous one. I can see Apple doing something similar. It's a dead-nuts simple solution.

However, the case of getting both IMs and texts, Apple would need something like the notification bar on Android.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #148 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


You just can't have abusive relationships with developers and not expect some blowback.


In time, apple's other products will likely reach the market penetration of the Mac. Maybe somewhat bigger, as the Mac was supposed to appeal to sophisticated users along with technophobes.

But now Apple is transitioning towards making products mainly for technophobes. There are lots and lots of those in the marketplace. So maybe once the tablet market is mature, Apple might squeak out a double-digit market share.

But their current focus on products which don't do normal things, like display web videos, is likely to relegate the products to a smaller base compared to the just-as-easy, but greatly more capable devices currently being introduced.
post #149 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by depannist View Post

The problem is, to date, the Apple AppStore is still the most profitable place for a developer to be.

It depends entirely on the developer.

I have read reports claiming that the vast majority of App Store Devs make little or nothing from their apps.

Their is little visibility for apps. There is (or was, until Google swooped in to the rescue) no good way to even find an app in the app store. Many apps languish with few downloads, lost in the crowd.
post #150 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamlondon View Post

Assume for one moment the user and user experience are always central to all their decisions. At that point, all these decisions make perfect sense.



Wow. You are totally naive, or totally snowed.

The maximization of total profits is central to all their decisions. If they used any other criteria as central to their decisions, they could face lawsuits.

Welcome to the real world.

The user experience is crafted to increase total profits. If any other user experience would increase total profits, Apple would use that one.

So don't assume. If you understand that like all multinational corporations, all of apple's decisions are intended to maximize total profits, all these decisions make perfect sense.
post #151 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

Wow. You are totally naive, or totally snowed.

The maximization of total profits is central to all their decisions.

Nice attitude, how about trying not to be so offensive next time.

You are right, all corporations are bent on one thing, and that is to make money. Steve's number one priority as CEO (I do know these things contrary to your assumptive little slams) is to maximise shareholder value. I know this well, I know this from business school and I know this from working in corporate hell for more than 20 years in companies big and small.<sigh>

My comment had to do with the products they build. Apple has always been about user experience. It's core to every product they build. True, if another mantra made them more profit they *might* but I don't assume that, I merely stated the products they build today are about users being at the centre of their decisions. It means that their products are not as popular because they aren't as cheap as "pack em high and sell em cheap" mentalities of other product manufacturers. They could have gone that way a long time ago and be a different company, but they have stuck to this one, and it works, and today it's providing more profit than ever to them.

Sometimes it means that another group of interest is pushed aside and may even have to suffer a little bit. My comment was addressing the fact there are some developers who are perhaps suffering and complaining a lot - my reaction is, "you aren't number one here." Apple addresses my needs as a consumer above anyone else's, which makes their products so great.
post #152 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

It depends entirely on the developer.

I have read reports claiming that the vast majority of App Store Devs make little or nothing from their apps.

Confirmed:

Quote:
The iPad App Store: It’s a Mess
...
According to the model, the #1 grossing iPad app is earning about 70 times more than the #100 top grossing app.

It may no longer be enough for developers to simply climb into Apple’s top 100 grossing apps list to survive. While life continues to be great at the top, what was a graceful walk down the charts has become more of a tumble directly into the App Store’s lower middle class.

It should be noted that Apple currently holds the top three spots in the Top Grossing iPad Apps rankings. According to the model, those three spots are worth about $170,000 a day in gross revenue or 23% of ALL revenue generated daily in the Top 100 Grossing iPad Apps chart. The iPad App Store is so top-heavy that, at least in the immediate future, it may be very difficult for anyone outside of the top 10 or 20 to generate any significant revenue at all, as revenue drops steeply.

The story gets worse for apps not in the top 100. From conversations with developers who we believe are just outside of the Top 100, sales quickly drop into the single digits per day.
...

http://appular.com/2010/04/the-ipad-...re-its-a-mess/

So out of 250,000 apps, 249,900 of them are making less than they would if the developers flipped burgers instead of writing code.
post #153 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

In time, apple's other products will likely reach the market penetration of the Mac. Maybe somewhat bigger, as the Mac was supposed to appeal to sophisticated users along with technophobes.

But now Apple is transitioning towards making products mainly for technophobes. There are lots and lots of those in the marketplace. So maybe once the tablet market is mature, Apple might squeak out a double-digit market share.

But their current focus on products which don't do normal things, like display web videos, is likely to relegate the products to a smaller base compared to the just-as-easy, but greatly more capable devices currently being introduced.

I'm not an iFan and I don't buy this argument. Apple got out early in this game. And I think they'll be dominating it for a while to come. They might slip with Android looming large, but they won't go down to a Mac type of defeat.
post #154 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamlondon View Post

Apple addresses my needs as a consumer above anyone else's, which makes their products so great.

And if they don't address the needs of developers then Apple really won't be able to meet your needs, if and when developers start leaving the iPhone platform.

Besides, I still fail to see how yanking an existing app simply it duplicates future functionality hurts the user. Shouldn't you give those users the choice to use whatever Apple puts out new of whatever they were using before?
post #155 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

Wow. You are totally naive, or totally snowed.

The maximization of total profits is central to all their decisions. If they used any other criteria as central to their decisions, they could face lawsuits.

Welcome to the real world.

The user experience is crafted to increase total profits. If any other user experience would increase total profits, Apple would use that one.

So don't assume. If you understand that like all multinational corporations, all of apple's decisions are intended to maximize total profits, all these decisions make perfect sense.

While such a thoroughly cynical view of business is quite popular, thanks to the likes of BP, Goldman Sachs, Enron, and other companies who have demonstrated a callous disregard for all but mammon, there exist in the literature documented instances that contradict your dreary, soulless view of life.

I would say you've taken a bit of textbook knowledge of capitalism, heard a bit about "fiduciary duty", mixed that together with an inherent negativism and come up with this idée fixe that business is all about being evil, so all business are equally equal, so it doesn't matter...

Well, the world is not as simple as you believe and corporations are only as evil as the people who lead them, who aren't all necessarily subscribers to your world view. One of the funny things about humans is that they can sometimes read the same textbooks you have, yet, inexplicably, they may do something entirely counter to what you predict. Until all corporations, like Goldman Sachs, are run entirely by computers, with no human factors involved in decision making at all, your view will remain, thankfully, completely and utterly wrong.
post #156 of 156
I wonder how things will play out with potential release of the iPhone on Monday. If it's ready to go immediately, does it have 4.0? There's been no new 4.0 seed, and no GM so far from Apple, which usually comes prior to public release. I'd say more likely GM seed is out Monday, devs finalize and submit apps, iPhone goes on sale within 1-2 weeks and 4.0 goes live then.

There haven't been many indicators that the whole caboodle could go live Monday.
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