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Apple highlights interactive capabilities of HTML5 - Page 4

post #121 of 320
Apple this week posted a new section on its website, showing off the abilities of HTML5 in a standards based browser such as Safari, including interactive videos and photos.



That says it all...

People here seem upset with Apple because other browsers don't support these standards yet. Is that not idiotic or what?
post #122 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

Anyone reasonable will agree with this. But there is the added dimension of what companies are willing to spend to design websites.

This change is already happening. The point of this demo is to help push it further along.

Quote:
This is real world ... this is why microsoft and IE have stifled the technology enhancements on the web.

MS did stifle the internet, but they no longer have the power to do that. MS did not want to support HTML5, now they are determined to have IE fully compliant. They were forced to do this.
post #123 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by rorybalmer View Post

How is he telling anyone how to consome internet?? This doesn't even have anything to do with consuming internet, it's about building internet.

A common, but mistaken, notion of Flash clingers. No one has ever been given a choice of content types for them to consume. Content producers always have and always will be the ones who choose, not consumers.
post #124 of 320
Entirely wrong interpretation of the situation.

These tools are not proprietary to Safari, they are open standards. The only reason this requires Safari is because Safari supports it and no one else does yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sf_dude View Post

Apple has to be stopped from trying to tell you how you are supposed to consume the internet. Why Jobs wants to make Apple into a new Microsoft - would it be called Applesoft ?
post #125 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Entirely wrong interpretation of the situation.

These tools are not proprietary to Safari, they are open standards. The only reason this requires Safari is because Safari supports it and no one else does yet.

It's good to have a voice of reason around here - keep doing what you do.
post #126 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Entirely wrong interpretation of the situation.

These tools are not proprietary to Safari, they are open standards. The only reason this requires Safari is because Safari supports it and no one else does yet.

The only tool we have right now is a keyboard. When the css extensions no longer need -webkit- in front of them it will be an open standard.

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post #127 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Apple this week posted a new section on its website, showing off the abilities of HTML5 in a standards based browser such as Safari, including interactive videos and photos.



That says it all...

People here seem upset with Apple because other browsers don't support these standards yet. Is that not idiotic or what?

You have to consider their argument. If Apple is pushing for a flash alternative that doesn't work on their browser, what value is it to them?

By all accounts, firefox is a modern browser, and so is Opera or Chrome, but it appears Safari is the only one that fully supports what Apple is pushing for.

I think all browsers should be equal in that they support the most recent technologies available, but for some odd reason that's not the case here.
post #128 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

You have to consider their argument. If Apple is pushing for a flash alternative that doesn't work on their browser, what value is it to them?

Absolutely. It's of little value if you are not running Safari, which I happen to believe is the point.
post #129 of 320
I've just had a look at the site on my iPhone and all I have to say in responce is "so long flash"
post #130 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronHeadSlim View Post

Now if we could have a Cupertino built html editor...

Same comment from me. Why can't this stuff be incorporated into a "pro" version of iWeb... NOW!

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post #131 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by foad View Post

Look people. There are parts of the HTML5 spec that only Safari currently supports. Both Firefox and Chrome are behind, hence the requirement for Safari.

THe Chrome & Firefox developers should speed up their implementation of the draft spec as it currently stands.

As a side note, if you visit http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/ you can view the demos in other browsers. Some of the functionality won't be there, but they'll work for the most part.

But HTML5 is so closed. Apple won't release the specs because it's proprietary. If they allowed everyone to look at the source code, people wouldn't have to wait until Apple updated the standard, causing everyone else to wait for their updates, if they ever update at all.

Oh wait, sorry, I mean Flash, not HTML5.
post #132 of 320
Taken directly from Apple's website. I mean, they really could not have made it any clearer:


The demos below show how the latest version of Apples Safari web browser, new Macs, and new Apple mobile devices all support the capabilities of HTML5, CSS3, and JavaScript. Not all browsers offer this support. But soon other modern browsers will take advantage of these same web standards and the amazing things they enable web designers to do.
post #133 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by rangerdavid View Post

Apple: If you're trying to prove that HTML5 is ready to replace Flash, you don't advertise your HTML5 demo and immediately tell me my browser, nor any other besides your Safari, will not work with it. You just shot yourself in the foot.

I'm with Adobe on this one; before this silly Demo fiasco , I wasn't! I had no idea how unimplemented the standard was.

http://www.sunrisebrowser.com/

I thought the same first, but it actually works perfectly in that browser

I couldn't get it to work in firefox for mac though
post #134 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by foad View Post

Look people. There are parts of the HTML5 spec that only Safari currently supports. Both Firefox and Chrome are behind, hence the requirement for Safari.

THe Chrome & Firefox developers should speed up their implementation of the draft spec as it currently stands.

As a side note, if you visit http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/ you can view the demos in other browsers. Some of the functionality won't be there, but they'll work for the most part.

What good are supposedly open standards if they only work on the latest hardware and the latest browser?

Apple needs to post a web page that is comparable to Flash in terms of complexity with animation, audio and lots of interactivity. Then we can make a fair comparison.

The example pages are a bit underwhelming.

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post #135 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Mozilla especially, since they still can't get Firefox Mobile on Android, which I think it very important for the future of their business.

"Can't"?

Pre-Alpha was delivered more than a month ago:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Firef...ile+on+Android

You can relax. It'll be finished soon enough, and thousands are using it now.
post #136 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceres View Post

Good grief... I'll add my voice here... to call this demo a "standards showcase" for HTML5 is a joke. As noted by others, it ONLY works in Safari. Standards are also about accessibility... in multiple browsers with varying limitation and abilities. This would have been far more effective demo if Apple had made the demo work in multiple browsers.

It's a demo. Yes, Apple should have gone to great lengths, yada, yada, yada... IT'S A DEMO!

It's utterly amazing how people expect a demo to be all dancing, singing and Flash-ing. It's a demo, it's a demo, it's a demo. Demos don't run on everything, they run in tightly controlled environments, normally adhering to well defined scripts which don't deviate.

It's a demo.
post #137 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamlondon View Post

It's a demo. Yes, Apple should have gone to great lengths, yada, yada, yada... IT'S A DEMO!

It's utterly amazing how people expect a demo to be all dancing, singing and Flash-ing. It's a demo, it's a demo, it's a demo. Demos don't run on everything, they run in tightly controlled environments, normally adhering to well defined scripts which don't deviate.

It's a demo.

It's not just a demo, it's a demo by the second biggest company in the world, and not only that one of the biggest critics of Flash on record! I want to see some razzle-dazzle here.

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post #138 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

What good are supposedly open standards if they only work on the latest hardware and the latest browser?

Apple needs to post a web page that is comparable to Flash in terms of complexity with animation, audio and lots of interactivity. Then we can make a fair comparison.

The example pages are a bit underwhelming.

Well it seems to be both Chrome and Firefox have the same regularity of updates as Safari (Chrome is even quicker with updates). It's up to them to support it. Chrome supports most of the demos. I'm not sure what you mean by latest hardware but it was far smoother than Flash on my 2 year old base iMac model.

As for the animations they seemed fine to me. I've rarely been to a website that actually uses the Flash for anything other than video and ads. When I do visit one, they usually abuse it.

Example: http://www.neetrecordings.com/
post #139 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


Apple needs to post a web page that is comparable to Flash in terms of complexity with animation, audio and lots of interactivity. Then we can make a fair comparison.

No they do not. We're all too familiar with flash. If they're transitioning from flash, highlight the alternative. Show us what the future holds.
post #140 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

As for the animations they seemed fine to me. I've rarely been to a website that actually uses the Flash for anything other than video and ads. When I do visit one, they usually abuse it.]

They seemed to load pretty slowly. I guess they didn't want a loading progress bar as it would look too much like typical Flash. I'm not sure there is a way to stream or buffer css / js image content. I have the same problem on my site. All the images used in the sequence have to load before the first one displays.

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post #141 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

It's not just a demo, it's a demo by the second biggest company in the world, and not only that one of the biggest critics of Flash on record! I want to see some razzle-dazzle here.

OMG, because it's the 2nd biggest market cap company the demo has to be more full featured? That's redefining what a demo is.

It's a demo. If you've ever worked in software development, you would know that a demo is a demo, and many (including the latest Flash demo on Android) was not perfect. This isn't perfect, but a demo is intended to give you an idea of what life could be at release.

Don't make Apple adhere to different standards just because of their newly realised worth (?).

As for razzle-dazzle - have Google or Mozilla or Opera demonstrated anything like this (and they are HTML5 proponents, btfw!).
post #142 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

No they do not. We're all too familiar with flash. If they're transitioning from flash, highlight the alternative. Show us what the future holds.

What? It would be a great idea to show html5 doing what flash does. The other stuff it does that flash can't aren't really the major selling points. The major selling point for html5 is "it can do what flash can do, for free."

So yes, showing a flash site compared to an html5 site, all doing the same exact thing, is a great way to push html5's capability.
post #143 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

Example: http://www.neetrecordings.com/

Wow, I hope I'm not offending you by saying this (like maybe it's your friend's site or something) but that has got to be the most annoying looking webpage I've ever come across.
post #144 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

No they do not. We're all too familiar with flash. If they're transitioning from flash, highlight the alternative. Show us what the future holds.

I hope and expect "the future" to be an improvement on the present. Not the same or worse.

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post #145 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

What? It would be a great idea to show html5 doing what flash does. The other stuff it does that flash can't aren't really the major selling points. The major selling point for html5 is "it can do what flash can do, for free."

So yes, showing a flash site compared to an html5 site, all doing the same exact thing, is a great way to push html5's capability.

Exactly. Frankly, the HTML5 version of YouTube is not as fully featured as the Flash version, for example. Please Apple, show us some world-class HTML5 going head-to-head with Flash. Side by side comparison.

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post #146 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Wow, I hope I'm not offending you by saying this (like maybe it's your friend's site or something) but that has got to be the most annoying looking webpage I've ever come across.

Believe it or not, that might offend him.

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post #147 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Exactly. Frankly, the HTML5 version of YouTube is not as fully featured as the Flash version, for example. Please Apple, show us some world-class HTML5 going head-to-head with Flash. Side by side comparison.

Even if someone did do that, the user doesn't have any idea how hard it was to do. A developer having to write in pure js code with no timeline GUI can expect to spend at least triple the time required to do it with Flash. So sure it is great for the end user who can't handle Flash but the poor developer is not going to get much sleep.

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post #148 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by rorybalmer View Post

Geez again, why do people continue to make this already answered, already thwarted point..

They are demoing the FUTURE of ALL the aspects HTML5 can bring. The point is to try and get all the developers and then of course all the other browser platforms on board. If they all had it it wouldn't be the future, nor would there be a point of a DEMO.

If you opened up chrome and the demo worked perfectly fine, it would then be pointless cause you already have everything they are trying to demo.

Did anyone else not notice from the heading "Developers: Learn how to do it yourself" that this demo is for.. I dunno.. Developers, and not consumers who happen to be browsing at that moment. Clearly anyone who develops websites would already have every major browser already so they can test their site's compatability and would never see that error message.

Please, for anyone else who's thinking about making this arguement woul you please just say it over in your head a few times first until you realize what your actually saying?? "Geez, you'd think if they wanted to show people all these great features of HTML5 that firefox, chrome, and opera don't fully support yet, you'd think they would at least make it work on firefox, chrome, and opera!!"

I think it (the argument) is being rehashed over and over because of this quote written on Apple's html5 page:

"Standards aren’t add-ons to the web. They are the web. And you can start using them today."

That gives the impression to non-technical people, or those who don't give a damn how the web works, that this standard is complete and ready to go for everyone; Not the case, however.
post #149 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

As for the animations they seemed fine to me. I've rarely been to a website that actually uses the Flash for anything other than video and ads. When I do visit one, they usually abuse it.

Example: http://www.neetrecordings.com/

all I get is an install flash icon. glad i'm not using my computer.
post #150 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

"Can't"?

Pre-Alpha was delivered more than a month ago:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Firef...ile+on+Android

You can relax. It'll be finished soon enough, and thousands are using it now.

Ignoring the misconstruction of the term "Pre-Alpha", the fact that it's still an Alpha, not even a Beta, and hasn't been available on Android for a couple years now — much less June 2010 — shows just much ground Mozilla has to make up just to even have a viable mobile product.
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post #151 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Even if someone did do that, the user doesn't have any idea how hard it was to do. A developer having to write in pure js code with no timeline GUI can expect to spend at least triple the time required to do it with Flash. So sure it is great for the end user who can't handle Flash but the poor developer is not going to get much sleep.

So that seems to be an argument that Flash is superior for developers, even though it's still no panacea for browsers.

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post #152 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Wow, I hope I'm not offending you by saying this (like maybe it's your friend's site or something) but that has got to be the most annoying looking webpage I've ever come across.

That is M.I.A.'s (the musician) site. She performed on the Grammy's two years ago the song Paper Planes from the soundtrack of Slumdog Millionaire.
post #153 of 320
I tried out all those demos on my iPad. Some had quite sluggish controls and felt very desktop-ish in their GUI design.

Overall I was impressed with what HTML can do now but it's not yet up to the standard of Cocoa Touch/Core Animation, and something tells me the underlying code is a lot messier.
post #154 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Entirely wrong interpretation of the situation.

These tools are not proprietary to Safari, they are open standards. The only reason this requires Safari is because Safari supports it and no one else does yet.

Yeah I hear "it's gonna' be great.

One side yelling that flash is always "gonna", when html5 is the same.

I don't see much in these demoes that was basic stuff a decade. And this is the flash killer?

Idiots.
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post #155 of 320
Is there a coherent thought there?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

Yeah I hear "it's gonna' be great.

One side yelling that flash is always "gonna", when html5 is the same.

I don't see much in these demoes that was basic stuff a decade. And this is the flash killer?

Idiots.
post #156 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

Idiots.

Hey hey hey. We're all geniuses here.
post #157 of 320
Sorry guys, but I see this thread is a tad much ado about nothing.

First of all very soon all browsers will adopt htlml5 with more and more features, because no one want's to be left out of the future, ie has already publicly stated their support, and so have opera, and firefox. I don't care about chrome.

Secondly, in terms of adoption, I don't see any problem when for years we've been pestered about downloading the latest flash plugin to run flash, it will be very easy on all browsers to prompt the user to update informing them that they might not be able to view the latest standards otherwise. Ff, opera, and safari automatically prompt for updates. So, I don't see why anyone even in the legacy machine(well, not on the lisa...) will be left.

so, like I said, much ado about nothing, apple released some demonstration of features for developers to spread the word about html5 and advance its use. The point is to show where technology is heading, not were it is or has been.
post #158 of 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Hey hey hey. We're all geniuses here.

I see that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

Sorry guys, but I see this thread is a tad much ado about nothing.

First of all very soon all browsers will adopt htlml5 with more and more features, because no one want's to be left out of the future, ie has already publicly stated their support, and so have opera, and firefox. I don't care about chrome.

Secondly, in terms of adoption, I don't see any problem when for years we've been pestered about downloading the latest flash plugin to run flash, it will be very easy on all browsers to prompt the user to update informing them that they might not be able to view the latest standards otherwise. Ff, opera, and safari automatically prompt for updates. So, I don't see why anyone even in the legacy machine(well, not on the lisa...) will be left.

so, like I said, much ado about nothing, apple released some demonstration of features for developers to spread the word about html5 and advance its use. The point is to show where technology is heading, not were it is or has been.

I agree. The whole look you need safari har har har thing is just as dumb as the it's a flash killer nonsense.

It is what it is, and believe me web developers are happy to see new features added to html and css. Yes there will be a number of simpler things we'd use flash for, that we won't anymore.
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post #159 of 320
The fact that CSS 3D Transformations works on my iPhone right now. An no parts of Flash work at all....yeah it is pretty great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

Yeah I hear "it's gonna' be great.

I don't see much in these demoes that was basic stuff a decade. And this is the flash killer?

Idiots.
post #160 of 320
Here's a nice site that shows you the various HTML5 readiness states of different browsers. This isn't a "Review" blog, they actually test the capabilities of each browser. Paul Irish is one of the developers of Modernizr.

http://html5readiness.com/
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