Apple highlights interactive capabilities of HTML5 - Page 2

Have you ever created a CMS or a browser? Or created a website? The demos shown require scripts to be written, e.g., as modules, to illustrate each example show.

That script has to be made compatible and optimized with the CMS or in this case the browser itself. This will include ensuring the the CSS will also work with the CMS or the browser.

If you ever created a website, you will find for example that the same script will not always work completely with various browsers There might be nuanced difference even among the more common browsers that adhere to the latest standards HTML. Ir you use a browser compatibility site to view your creation, what you may view based on the "same module script" will have nuanced differences if you view them in Firefox, Safari, Camino, Opera, Chrome, Internet Explorer, etc.

Usually, the most notorious and problematic with the resulting layout presentation are the various versions of Internet Explorer because Microsoft deliberately tweaked what it used to serve as html.

If you join any template sites, what you will find are problems ecountered by users of the template relevant to the resulting layout of the created template with respect to the various browsers.

What the developer of the template must then do is optimize the script to find a compromise that would then at least provide a lyout that would be decent for the more commonly used browsers and htheir various versions. This may include all sorts of tweaking, e.g., some Java scripts integerated to instruct --

"if an IE6 is used, ignore certain CSS specifications and use these alternative CSS"

You actually do not see such plain language instructions, but the javascript to instruct the "server" what to execute.

For demos like this, for the masses, who simply view stuff. and not aware of all the hopps must go through to view an intented optimize layout, it must select a version of a specific browser. And optimize the script and CSS specifications of that module for that browser.

At this stage, Apple cannot force the browser creators to ensure that the various versions of the browsers still in existence to upgrade or modify their browser scripts to be optimized for the html5 demos created by Apple.

[A good non-Apple example of this is Google's You Tube. Since it is very time consuming and very difficult to ensure that the You Tube videos with all existing versions of the more common browsers, it opted to select speicific versions of browsers that are actively supported by the creator. Thus, Google decided not to support IE6 (not sure if there are older IE that it does not support for the You Tube videis. If you have an old computer or using older versions of certain browsers, you would have seen a warning months ago that Google You Tube will no longer function properly with certain browser versions,]


Since Apple owns Safari, it then opted to optimize it for specific versions of Safari. For example, some of the modules may use certain version of QuickTime to work for videos (perhaps as default) if your computer does not have certain applications required by the script.

I have Safari in my old computer but the demo requires a later version of QuickTime that in turn was optimized for certain versions of the OS for Mac, Windows, Linux, Chrome, etc. The OS of my old computer is below the minimum requirement, so I can download but not be able the compatible QuickTime required. All the other applications used must also be the appropriate version to work, Therefore, I cannot use my old version of Safari to view the Demo.

CGC

The average joe consumer doesn't know or care anything about HTML5.

The other browsers don't yet fully support these functions. The whole point of this demonstration is to push others to support it.

Does anybody else think they may be replacing the iTunes/iLife apps with Safari based HTML5 versions? The demos on this webpage show off some of the basic features from these apps.

What do you think?

IE isn't mentioned anywhere and has the dominant market share.

Why bother making pro apps when 80% of PC users have $300 Dell/HP machines? Why bother offering better quality audio codecs when the majority can't tell the difference? Why bother implementing proper standards based tech when most people don't care? Why bother offering better cooked food when so many people think McDonalds is fine. And so on.

I love html 5 but here are some critical issues.

1. Almost 10% if internet users worldwide use 10 year old browsers ... browsers that will never support html 5.

2. Windows users ... especially in businesses are slow to upgrade unless machines break and they have to

3. Html 5 works on 0 (that is zero) windows desktops running non-beta versions of internet explorer

4. Approx 60% of desktop computers users in the world today use internet explorer on windows


Because of this (at least for non-mobile applications) i will avoid html5. That is until i see IE share reduce to insignificant levels ... or is see IE9 come out final release with quick adoption.

http://www.webmonkey.com/2010/06/smo...t-the-plug-in/

IE at this point does not support HTML5 in any serious way. It doesn't bear mentioning, at least until IE 9.

The other fact is that mobile web devices are growing faster than personal computers. Apple is focused on the future. Mobile web is dominated bt HTML5. IE has zero presence in the mobile market.

1. Apple doesn't care about those people that use 10 year old browsers. Remember, this is the company that dropped the floppy before anyone else did.

2. Apple isn't targeting slow to upgrade businesses.

3. That isn't correct at all. Both Chrome and Firefox on Windows support most of these demos.

4. That number has been decreasing pretty rapidly. That is why the IE team is starting to move towards more standards. We'll see how far they take it.

The fact of the matter is that web developers have always had to target multiple browsers with different capabilities. Apple is trying to force browser developers to adopt some of the more advanced features in the current spec as well as introduce some new features to the spec. We are in a time of change and change is rough sometimes. They are also trying to enlighten their iPhone OS user base that Flash isn't the only answer and that an alternative is available right now. The only users that Apple cares about is their users.

you make good points except i will argue that my 3rd point IS correct because i am specifying windows users who use the microsoft default browser internet explorer. Most windows users are still using the IE.

iTunes is already largely WebKit based.

They force you to use Safari and when i open "VR" it says I "Need a browser that supports CSS 3D transforms".

And THEY are bashing on Flash?

C'mon Apple, what are you doing? Instead of giving Web Developers freedom to develop websites in anything they want to, they force us on doing it 'their' way, just because of their iPad and iPhone...

I have absolutely no problem with HTML5 and CSS3, but give us a choice...

You are narrowly focused on the personal computer. Apple's focus is on mobile devices. The mobile web is growing fast and is the future of web growth and development.

It's not even a matter of whether Apple cares. As a website owner, unless there is some very specific reason why you want to reach that particular demographic, you shouldn't care because they are of no value to you.

The comments are piling up quick on this one haha.

I say 200..

This is completley wrong. Firefox, Chrome, and Opera all support HTML5. They just don't support all of the extensions that Safari supports.

It doesn't even work with Safari for Windows! Geez, Apple, what point are you trying to make here?!

It will be nice to have a solution that works both on desktops and mobile devices (development budgets are only so big). I think we will have a good indication where to go with this technology by spring next year. I think we are finally at that turning point similar to the 3.5 floppy drives. By then flash mobile will either be a success or failure on the androids. I personally hope html5 wins this battle and windows users get on board. We will see.

I'd argue that Apple is pushing the boundaries of what can be done, by showcasing the stuff. As a web developer, I'd love to code in HTML5 rather than in Flash. Even if only a subset of the population can access those features. In a few years, most people will upgrade to browsers that support that functionality anyway, so comments suggesting that this is supposed to go on production environments now with everyone being able to view it are either idiots or trolls. In a few years, yes, you can bet they will go on production environments and the majority of people will be able to view it. Chrome already has 7% of the browser market share, Safari is around 5%, and Firefox is about 24%. IE is slowly losing market share to 60% (statistics all pulled from Net Applications). However, I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that IE will decline to 50% within this year. And to 40% next year.

It is not wrong. Read my post. I'm referring to the users of IE and windows ... in other words the lions share of the market!

It's because they are trying to promote CSS 3D Transforms. What would be the point of showcasing a function in a browser that cannot show you what it is presenting?

It's like going to the Flash gallery on Adobe's site. Expecting to see the Flash gallery without needing the Flash plug in. What would be the point of a Flash gallery?

They have one, it's called Textedit, Command-,, Open and Save, When Opening a File, Ignore Rich Text Commands in HTML Files

Indeed I am trying to view this on a PC at work. I HATE Safari on a Mac, its even worse on Windows. Chrome is 1000x better and probably would run this stuff faster.

Dumb move Apple!

I tested and works great on windows safari.

62% of the US users IE, 4% use Safari. IE9 beta has better HTML5 support than Safari...

http://www.neowin.net/news/internet-...tml5-compliant

If windows users ... and this is a big if ... adopt IE 9 or alternative browsers that support html 5, then i believe flash will become less and less dominate even on the desktops. I also believe html 5 will become the de facto standard. Unfortuneatly developers still have to worry about what windows users are doing because they are the market.

The fact of the matter is that users are moving away from IE for a variety of reasons. They are moving away at an increasing rate. As I mentioned earlier, that is the reason the IE team is trying to implement more standards into IE 9. If they don't push for as much feature parity with the other major browsers, they risk losing even more market share. Microsoft doesn't want that.

No matter what, for the foreseeable future as has been in the past, web developers will have to target multiple platforms & browsers. It's always been like this. HTML5 hasn't changed that core fact. As far as Apple is concerned they have around 100 million mobile devices that support HTML5. That isn't even counting their Mac division. That is a lot of users that can benefit from HTML5 right now. They don't care about IE at all. It's not even a passing thought.

Whenever there are innovators they take heat for it. Apple is pushing for the html5 CSS3 standards to be used throughout all browsers. They are showing what is possible.

I would like them to produce a pro level html editor because I think it would rock.

They also are targeting a market that the trolls don't understand. Seriously, are you selling high end products to Explorer 6 users?

WOW! I'm simply amazed at how many posters are not getting the point of these Safari 4 demos from Apple. I noticed at least TenoBell and foad trying to clear some things up.

Part of the issue with these demos not working outside of WebKit-based browsers may be due to CSS3 stlll including the webkit- experimental selectors. Every modern browser is using them, once they get accepted the selector falls off. These are not aspects that only Safari can use.

These demos makes me think Safari and HTML5 will be a focus of the keynote, especally when I consider the email reply from Jobs regarding adding full HTML5 Support Soon. Safari 5 release with full HTML5, CSS3, and some new JS engine? How much has the WebKit nightlies come along? WebKit is positioned to be on more devices than IE ever was in just a couple years. This is a pretty big deal.


PS: DanielSW, there aren't many rules for this forum so you might want to keep the personal attacks out. Plus, it weakens your argument.

Dude, I just gotta be honest hear.. This in itself is an absolutely fantastic post.. really informative and very helpful. But why do you have to be such a dick about it? Doesnt not knowing what you just typed really make me a moron? Like is this comon knowledge that everyone else learned in high school or something?

That doesn't matter as much as it used to. IE is loosing market share and it's dominance of the web is over.

This is true ... I remember when IE numbers were close to 90% ... now they are down to 60%. And I've already made the point that this html5 has fantastic potential (even today) on mobile devices. The problem is getting the budget to do a desktop site and a mobile site. Usually customers will tell me to get it to work on both ... and that means dialing out the "cool".

No he had to explain Apple's position to a dumb idiot like you; go to YouTube wi all basement hacks at there $200 WalMarts.

So what is the problem if IE 9 is better at html5 than Safari? That is the future. Apple is right on the cutting edge of this.

Apple made it safari only because some browsers don't support html5 like they can, and this ensures they know the demos will work correctly. HTML5 is still new, and since Safari fully supports what they are trying to show, there's no gamble that it'll mess up in another browser, giving users the impression that html5 is buggy.

Furthermore, it's completely obvious these demos will increase the number of downloads for Safari. Some of those people downloading for the first time will stay with Safari.

over 60% worldwide? not over yet. but declining. and that is a good thing.

So you registered an account to call someone a dumb idiot, is that it?

[!]

I am not well-versed and skilled developer. And when I say developer, I do not mean all these website creators who download package CMS add their content and created a website, Then, they tag themselves as developers.

The developers that Apple are talking about are those individuals who have the skills -- training, experience and expertise -- in programming (scripting), and in this case in depth knowledge of web design also.

These kinds of developers will know for example that various browsers using different versions of "htmls", some of them are not compatible with what is generally accepted as "standard". The most notorious of this is Internet Explorer. To gain domination in the browser war in the early 1990s, Mircosoft deliberately modified its scripting, e.g., for page layout, image presentation, etc. that did not follow what were considered the standard "html" scripts. The same is true also with the Java scripts.

Even among the other browsers, if you select a website, and run it through a browser compatibility tester site, you will find that there be slight differences, you will find that the layout, typography, etc. may exhibit nuanced differences among the different browsers.

Similarly, there are various versions of image presentations, some of them are proprietary, some of them are open source.

An experienced developer also would know that certain browsers have not adopted html5, as yet. If I am not mistaken, Firefox is one of those that have accepted all the features in the hmtl5 draft.

Mozilla already is supporting HTML5 in its Firefox browser, the company said.


-- from W3C offers HTML5 draft


It is not that Firefox did not want to adopt html5, as an open source initiative, it has objection to one of the proposed standards adopted for html5. That standard was developed by a consortium. I believe it is free at the moment, but it is a proprietary technology, even if it was adapted as part of the html5 standards that are still evolving.

There are other browsers which have not fully adopted the html5 standards as yet.

Thus, if you attempt to use Firefox or some of these other for the Demo -- more than likely it will not work properly.

If you are one of those here who complained so vehemently or very obnoxiously why the Demo does not work in the browser of your choice -- beware of the saying: ""Little knowledge can be very dangerous." Obviously, if you use any of these browsers that still have not adopted all the proposed standards in the proposed html5 drafts the demo will not work.

Moreover, since, it may not work properly in certain browsers, to present the Demo in its optimized format for the "average user" -- clueless users like most of us (myself included) who do not understand and could not careless about creating an optimaly layouted website -- Apple correctly has chosen a browser where all the currently accepted html5 standards are fully functuonal. IN this case, Safari.

And not just any Safari, but specific versions of Safari. The reason for this -- for the less technical among us (myself included) -- all sort of applications that define the various standards must be in your computer. If you download the latest Safari, for example, it will alert you, if you still do not have these Applications in your computer, or if your computer cannot use these Applications because your computer is too old and cannot support these applications, as configured.

The other thing that we must know is that html standards, are decided upon by a committee of individuals, many of these individuals are part of corporations, or consortiums of corporations or members of the open source communities. There is no mandate that a company or a group should be part of this consortium. I assume that the members selected because of their expertise. However, since a number of them are members of corporations, there is always jockeying as to what becomes part of those standards.

Apple would want those standards to be compatible with the technology it was to develop, or wants it already working technology to be among those standards. And so does Microsoft, Google, and any company with stake in the evolving standards for the internet and other devices.

While Microsoft (MS) is a party to the html5 consortium, it did not stop Microsoft to develop competing technologies, not accepted as standards of the html5.

Similarly, the open source community would want to ensure that those technologies are open source, rather than proprietary. It is not always the case though. For example, a number of Apple patented technologies make their way to what are considered de-facto standards. While they are under patent, some of them were given away freely but still under license. This restriction prevents other companies from simply copying the patented technology.

[There is a more technical case, decided in court a year or so ago, where an open source developer group sued a company for appropriating the "open source technology" in question, and commercialized it. The court verdict is too convoluted for me to understand and too technical for me to explain here, but the open source group won the case.]

CGC

Now I see why they made it Safari only though. I'm seeing some bugs using Firefox.

They are testing beta against a shipping browser. They are supposed to test beta against beta, the story would be different.