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Google Music planned as iTunes for Android, may kill DoubleTwist - Page 2

post #41 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Except Google doesn't ban anything unless it's malicious. Android even let's you duplicate existing functionality. Can you imagine Google doing to Android developers what Apple just did to dashboard/widget apps makers?

didn't they just kick a bunch of Tetris clone out of the Android store?
post #42 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift View Post

Good luck with cross-platform crap apps.

'Cause web apps can really suck? Google Maps. Terrible. Popular Facebook games like Farmville. Terrible. They're all popular because they are crap right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift View Post

Beware of any business that is purely ad-driven.

Agreed. But you should also beware of any company that has a CEO who decides what you can and cannot do and can and cannot watch. Why should Steve Jobs get to decide whether I should or should not be allowed to consumer porn on my phone? Or the work of a prize winning cartoonist?
post #43 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

Google is trying to undermine Apple's cloud announcements next week.

It won't work.

Time will tell.

Never thought I'd hear someone talk up Apple's virtually non existent cloud services when comparing them to Google.

Google *is* the cloud, pretty much. Even Microsoft are doing better with the cloud than Apple are, and you know their heart really isn't in it.

The cloud is Apple's Achilles' heel, they just don't understand it. Hopefully that begin to change next week.
post #44 of 95
I know Steve Jobs said that he never see Apple as a platform company or waging platform war with Microsoft (and lost)

But it is very clear that Google is waging a mobile platform war with Apple and with everybody else. Apple better wake up or history is going to repeat itself.
post #45 of 95
Three years later...
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
Reply
post #46 of 95
Mountain View....START YOUR PHOTOCOPIERS!
post #47 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

It may be the best (and you can best the Google gnomes are working at making it better) but it was certainly far more innovative than MobileMe. Anyway, I got the correlation wrong. It's iWorks that's a Google Docs competitor. MobileMe is more a competitor to GMail and Picassa.

actually you didn't get it wrong. iwork basically just stores files on a server. you can export pdf or office formats. can't edit online, but you can leave notes. iwork in the future will be a google doc competitor.
post #48 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

That's fine. Too each their own. In a few months, I'll have the security of the walled garden on my iPad and the freedom to install what I want on my Nexus One.

However, I was responding to the ridiculous charge made by the other poster that Google is moving to the "walled garden" approach. Nothing could be further from the truth.


I would agree that google is not moving to a walled garden ... yet google does have a wall, it just is raised after the damage occurred instead of before the damage occurred. read the wsj article, very interesting. will android become riddled with virus's similar to desktops? I really don't know, but their approach is much more dangerous than apples. i won't be accessing my bank account on one of those "open" machine, i'll tell you that.
post #49 of 95
Google is a joke. They are living off of an algorithm by Brin and Page.
Moreover, Google pays Apple 100 million a year to carry their freaking search! WTF!
So, how is Google competing with Apple when they are greasing their pockets with that much cash?
And Android can be developed up the a** but at the end of the day it is a free OS on competing hardware maker's tech who view their phones as nothing but fanboy art and will discard them with nary a support on earth. The celly biz is a very progressive business, but at the end of the day it is a throw away tech business.

I also heard that Google pays their cell phone partners to use Android. I don't know if that is true but taking into consideration that Google pays Apple big bank for Google search I wouldn't doubt it one bit.
post #50 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

Google is a joke. They are living off of an algorithm by Brin and Page.
Moreover, Google pays Apple 100 million a year to carry their freaking search! WTF!
So, how is Google competing with Apple when they are greasing their pockets with that much cash?

Google pays Apple big bank for Google search I wouldn't doubt it one bit.

I use Apple products by choice. Personally, I also prefer Apple;s "walled garden" if that helps minimize malware, and I have to minimize the time spent to find a gem, among a mountain of choices. Thus, I am more than likely to always prefer Apple over any Google phone, even if Google were to become dominant in the mobile computing devices. Just to get that straight.

However, it is comments like this that indicate how many Apple fans do not fully understand Google's business strategy.

First. It is Apple that is too dependent on Google - Google Search, Maps, You Tube (video), and Google is willing to collaborate with Apple because it is good for Google's strategy.

By the iPhone OS mobile devices using Google Search, it just continued the expansion of Google's domination over other Search engines. This happens to be the main source of income of Google and it also entrenched its Google Ads business. 100 million is pittannce, if in the process, you are earning 200 million or 500 million, in return. In fact, Google pays every browser company that uses its Search engine. Google Search is the bloodline of open source browser, Firefox.

The greater danger is that by cornering almost of all of the mobile Search business, except perhaps those few that use MS Bing Search (are there any using Yahoo?), Google has imprinted to teh minds of mobile gadget users that it is Google Search is also the de facto Search Engine in mobile computing devices.

This is the case also with Maps and You Tube.

As John Gruber mulled, Google at one point can exist without Apple (just like Google survived when Yahoo stopped using Google Search), but Apple will be terribly crippled if Google do decide to make some of its products not the fully compatible, not as much feature rich, or slow when used in Apple devices.

Microsoft did this to Apple. While Microsoft sold MS Office for the Mac, the update is not as often, or the latest version is not as rich as the Windows equivalent. AppleWorks did exist then but was neglected by Apple, MS Office was much better and became the de facto software for almost all computing devices, except for the "few rounding number" using other comparable software.

The legacy of this is that until now, in spite of an improved "Office" software by Apple *iWorks)

The same is true with Internet Explorer. In fact, at some point, MS simply stopped creating the IE for Apple. Sure Apple created Safari because of the action of the decision of Microsoft. Again, the legacy here is that, in PCs, IE is the de facto browser, even if its share is decreasing.

Apple in a sense is trying to gain some control in the mobile computing devices that are part of the iPhone OS ecosystem, in terms of Safari browser. It should do the same for Search, Maps but Apple has no comparable answer to You Tube. Sure Apple has bought a start up Maps company, and a Search start that it would prefer to call an AI (Artificial Intelligence) company.

Whatever it is , Apple is taking its time in developing these assets. That is good in a way to create a better alternative.

However, in my opinion, unlike other competitions, Apple may have found a viable competitor with Google, and with deep pockets, like Apple and Microsoft. Unlike other competitors, like Motorola, Nokia, RIM, Google is also known for its research. Or at least, Google was astute enough to buy acquisitions that strengthened its core business -- advertisements.

Steve Jobs cried foul that Google encrouched on its business. Such charges obviously is true, and fired up the Apple loyalist and created more publicity. But, let's face it, a business goal is to ensure its survival and profitability.

If it means encrouching on other's turf. That's business. Fight back, if you are a business.

Licensing your creation worked for Microsoft in the PC industry. Sure, MS used its clout to maintain its dominance. But, at the end of the day, Microsoft won the war in the PC industry.

Google believes it can do that same strategy and much better than Microsoft by using "open source" sharing of its creations -- Chrome, Android, etc. Why? Because it is free, more companies are likely to adopt these OS than proprietary OS, like Windows Phone 7. To support this, the share of Windows Mobile is declining while Android is growing in accelerated rate.

It is not a certainty, but if trends will continue, it is possible that Android can overtake the iPhone. Many Apple loyalist denigrate that some Androids were not as good as the iPhone, the Apps Store is much more ahead in terms of Apps, and has no equivalent in the Android ecosystem.

That is true, but historically the same charges were the response to growing car and electronics products of Japan. They were all copy-cat products based from Western technology. The West understimated Japan's technological prowess in the 60's but before the West realized, Japan became dominant in both the electornics industry, especially household products and entertainment, and became a poweerful competitor in car manufacturing. In fact, Japan automakers are far ahead in the most advanced cars in terms of energy conservation.

[China, Taiwan, South Korea are having similar increasing successes, but that is another thread.]

The point here is that Apple loyalist must not understimate Google but judging the state of its competing technologies. These technologies are improving, even a number of Apple bloggers and more independent tech analysts have indicated that the Android is ahead of the iPhone OS, in some areas, but the more experienced Apple iPhone users still prefer the iPhone.

The question now would be how the masses would react to a much more improved Google Ecosystem? How will it affect the dynamics if Android and the entire Google ecosystem, Search, Maps, Email, Social Networking, Video (You Tube), telephony, cloud computing, etc. becomes a true formidable competitor, or even overtake Apple, in the phone industry?

What Apple should do, is to understand and find ways to address the Google competition and the evolving Google Ecosystem. If Google succeeded in having many of the phone manufacturers to produce Android phone, improve its content delivery (Apps, music, books, mass media, etc.), these aspects of the Google Ecosystem would be formidable addition to that part of the ecoystem where it is already dominant -Search, Maps, You Tube video. More than likely, the films and TV and other video industries may attempt to provide preferential treatment to Google, if only for the Google to serve as a means for the mass media companies to have better negotiating position when it deals with Apple. The book and news-magazine industry did the same strategy to unlock the stranglehold of Amazon.


The silver lining in all these is that indeed Apple is trying to do this. For example, the WWDC next week is dedicated mainly to the iPhone OS because Apple correctly understood that the most contested competition with Google is the mobile computing market. Similarly, Apple has entered the iAds, to thwart the complete domination of Google in the growing mobile computing market.

Apple should do more though, and perhaps at a faster pace.

There are many ifs in the aforementioned speculation, and it will dictate the outcome. The most unpredictable among these in the response of the target consumers.

At least, in the past decade, Apple so far had the upperhand in creating products that resonated to consumers -- of all ages, and to an extent, economic strata, especially in the digital music.

CGC
post #51 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

CGC

That was a phenomenal post. Probably one of the best and most informative write-ups Ive ever seen of the Apple vs. Google situation. Seriously. Thank you for taking the time to write that.
post #52 of 95
CGC,

Finally a reasonable and intelligent comment, rather than all the rah-rah Google stole...rah rah Google copied....rah-rah Google is going down crap.

I believe the Apple-Google split came (and was bound to happen) because their underlying philosophies differ so much. Apple is fundamentally a hardware maker. They sell iWidgets. Google is ad funded service provider. For Google to do well in the brave new world of mobile computing, they need as many as eyeballs as they can get, using their websites. It would have been extremely dangerous for them to have to rely one company (Apple was so far ahead of the competition in 2007...and if not for Android would still be that far ahead), especially one as temperamental and restrictive as Apple, to drive mobile traffic to their sites.

Google's vision of companies like Apple is that they sell tools that help you access services and content. That's what the iPhone is. It's a tool. In Google's view they don't care what device you use as long as you end up using Google's services. Apple, see it much differently, of course. They don't believe web-services can be as good as native apps. They don't see the iPhone as just another tool. It's a crucial element in a whole ecosystem of Apple products. And most importantly, it's a best seller that makes them money.

These visions fundamentally clash. Google needs OEMs to proliferate cheap devices that help users access the web (and its services). Apple wants to sell its devices for as high a cost as possible to maximize its profits. Sooner or later they were bound to split. It makes perfect sense for Google to help all the other struggling OEMs by giving them Android, since they all suck so much at software. They don't even have to include a lick of Google stuff on the Android platform. Yet, Google will still make money as mobile traffic is driven to its sites. And it makes perfect sense for Apple to remain an exclusive and restrictive OEM since that approach makes them money. Unfortunately, that leaves less and less ground for commonality.
post #53 of 95
The important thing to remember about Google is they basically have one revenue source and it's advertising. Going forward they will increasingly need to corner markets because advertisers need to be where the users are. Google's growth is directly tied to growing their advertising business. If another new service or product comes along not serving Google ads or otherwise promoting Google's services it's an attack on their core. It's a troubling future to me because it puts Google into the Microsoft growth model of needing to dominate markets and stamp out competition early and often. We saw this recently with the AdMob purchase. It's rumored they tried to buy both Facebook and Twitter in the past. I'm really surprised with all the controversy over Facebook privacy and Apple's App Store policies few people in the tech media are talking about Google's dark side. We're going to see a lot more of this in the future from Google.
post #54 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babaloo View Post

I find it dumb how people think Google is "evil" for collecting data. Everything you use on Google is usually free. And things you type into Google, might be used to better target Ads for you. However no human is ever going to read the data, and even if they did, its all anonymous data so they would have no idea who's data it was. And the only reason Google does this is to make money, so they can provide the service for free.

So lets cut the crap about security, your free to use other competitors for $$ that don't use your data for ads. You get access to Google's great services for free. And if you think other free services (like bing) don't collect any data, your naive. You only hate on Google because they compete with Apple is some areas of the market. But remember if Google never made android, Apple would never feel any pressure and the iPhone 4 would most likely suck ass. Now it looks like its going to kick ass. Google making great phones is good for Apple customers, its good for everyone.

And you say stay away from Google services, yet there is nothing that even comes close to replacing them. Same thing with with Flash, people says its slow, buggy, compared to what? Nothing comes close. Silverlight? You got to be joking... You know they feel the pressure when Apple fans are suggesting Microsoft's products as solutions... LOL Lets get real here...

Google *is* evil. All they do is copy other company's products and give it away for free in order to stimulate their advertising business. If Google is so giving, why doesn't Google open source its search algorithm? Of course not, that's their crown jewel they will guard it with their life. In the mean time, they will undermine products from Microsoft, Apple, the music and movie industry etc... for an extra buck in advertising.

Apple could really screw Google by offering iAD for free. That would really give Google a taste of its own medicine. I still hope iAD kicks Google's ass even if Google participates in it. I hope they really shake up the internet advertising industry and open it to everyone.

Time will tell.
post #55 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

With all the Apple bashing at Google it seems that they are trying to replicate some of that walled garden approach that apple has to their platform..

With all the security problems, Google has to go that way.

My favorite line was "Google's efforts to match Apple's iTunes features integrated into its iPhone OS may stomp out the emerging third party solutions to the feature gap on Android,"

So it's horrible when Apple vets applications for quality, but it's OK for Google to restrict applications simply because they compete? ROTFLMAO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patroll View Post

I think you mean loss leaders. Unless you are referring to Ballmer, in which case you are correct in all sorts of ways.

Best line of the day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

The article was in context to a bank app available at google store that they had to pull (yes google pulls app from their store too--but the alt press doesn't get hissy about it). Evidently it was a bank app that would have had potential to take some finance data from users.

Yes, I can see why Google wouldn't allow that kind of app. After all, stealing your personal data is GOOGLE's job.
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post #56 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

Google *is* evil. All they do is copy other company's products and give it away for free in order to stimulate their advertising business.

So who'd they copy Google Maps from? What about WebAnalytics? Visual search? I am grateful that there is a company out there that's found a way to commercialize products that nobody else has. Where would maps be without Google and its advertising business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

If Google is so giving, why doesn't Google open source its search algorithm? Of course not, that's their crown jewel they will guard it with their life. In the mean time, they will undermine products from Microsoft, Apple, the music and movie industry etc... for an extra buck in advertising.

Why doesn't Apple open up its whole multi-touch patent set to anybody and everybody? Suggesting that they are evil because they don't hand out their IP to the competition is ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

Apple could really screw Google by offering iAD for free. That would really give Google a taste of its own medicine. I still hope iAD kicks Google's ass even if Google participates in it. I hope they really shake up the internet advertising industry and open it to everyone.

I'd love to see Apple try. Why not right? Let Apple blow billions in an ad war with a race to the bottom. Kinda hard when iAds only does ads in apps and not on the rest of the net. But why not? Apple should take on the entire internet advertising industry and simply pay out more than Google. They can make lots of website owners rich and cut that $40 billion warchest down to a more manageable size.
post #57 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

With all the security problems, Google has to go that way.

My favorite line was "Google's efforts to match Apple's iTunes features integrated into its iPhone OS may stomp out the emerging third party solutions to the feature gap on Android,"

So it's horrible when Apple vets applications for quality, but it's OK for Google to restrict applications simply because they compete? ROTFLMAO.

You really have Apple tinted glasses don't you. You didn't understand what you read. Google isn't going to restrict anything. AI's observation was that Google's offering would compete and eventually trump the "emerging third party solutions".

And Apple does far more than "vet" applications. They outright reject them if they compete with any OS feature or they'll axe them later when Apple decides to make said function a core OS feature (right after the developer has expended serious time and effort).
post #58 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihxo View Post

didn't they just kick a bunch of Tetris clone out of the Android store?

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...oid-market.ars

IP issues.
post #59 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babaloo View Post

And you say stay away from Google services, yet there is nothing that even comes close to replacing them. Same thing with with Flash, people says its slow, buggy, compared to what? Nothing comes close. Silverlight? You got to be joking... You know they feel the pressure when Apple fans are suggesting Microsoft's products as solutions... LOL Lets get real here...

Babaloo, your whole post:

+1
post #60 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post


The article was in context to a bank app available at google store that they had to pull (yes google pulls app from their store too--but the alt press doesn't get hissy about it). Evidently it was a bank app that would have had potential to take some finance data from users.

It was more than just a bad app. It was infected with a trojan.


http://www.h-online.com/security/new...ils-901895.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

Article also shows and iphone developer was grabbing contact info from phones, but apple found out about and kicked them off. So apple let's some bad ones squeak by, but at least they are trying to stop the madness.

I agree that Google is way to free with Android Market. And I really don't understand why. Since Android is an open platform, you can install apps from elsewhere. It's not make or break like the App Store. There's nothing stopping developers from taking their work elsewhere if they get rejected by AM. I think Google's afraid of looking like hypocrites if they start kicking off apps. Can you imagine what people on here would be staying?
post #61 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babaloo View Post

I find it dumb how people think Google is "evil" for collecting data. Everything you use on Google is usually free. And things you type into Google, might be used to better target Ads for you. However no human is ever going to read the data, and even if they did, its all anonymous data so they would have no idea who's data it was. And the only reason Google does this is to make money, so they can provide the service for free. ...

I think you have it backwards, and have missed a few points. Google provides "free" services, and faux open source software, for several reasons.

First, and very simply, it allows them to undermine the business models of other companies. By throwing out "free" software, it disrupts markets and "opens up" information for harvesting by Google. Just as importantly, it gives Google control of that information. Google's business model isn't simply about advertising, it's about gathering, and controlling access to, information. Some of that information is personally identifiable information (sorry, but the information Google collects is absolutely not anonymized, despite what they would like you to believe) and some of that information falls into other categories. But the underlying business model is collection and control of information.

Also, I think it's almost certain that, at some point, humans will be reviewing specific information about specific individuals. Whether it be "rogue" Google employees using it for their own purposes, government agencies conducting investigations, or officially sanctioned internal access, it absolutely will happen. Human nature being what it is, a treasure trove of personal (and business) data such as this will eventually be used for purposes other than benign.
post #62 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

...However, it is comments like this that indicate how many Apple fans do not fully understand Google's business strategy....

Finally, someone who really gets what's going on in the mobile and search world.

It is interesting to read the other comments from those "on the other side of the pond". While the iPhone is squarely targeted by the dozens of Android devices out there, the FUD coming from Apple radicals is getting more amusing by the day. Like the iPhone can be the only good phone on the planet...come on guys you knew someone would step up competition. Now that competition is there (which if you stop the blathering for a moment you'll realize is good for everyone) and threatening to take over the iPhone (despite the media obsession with the iPhone) its an all out FUD war.

The rise of Android should be no surprise to anyone. Apple has made a couple potentially fatal mistakes. The first one is the AT&T agreement. If Jobs knew what he had, he wouldn't have limited it to one of the worst networks in the US. Now flame if you want, but I've had AT&T *before* the iPhone was popular and I dropped calls even back then. AT&T is an old school business model where the customer comes last and their stock holders come first. If it wasn't for the iPhone, I think it would be safe to say they would not be where they are today. They NEEDED the exclusive agreement, however, this was not what Apple needed.

The second fatal mistake was lack of innovation. Now before the wolves feed on this one, let me explain. The debut of the iPhone was the greatest leap in smart phones we have ever seen. It was fresh, unlike anything else and had the rest of the smart phone manufacturers stumped. And stumped for a long time. However, since the debut of the iPhone, there has not been anything truly innovative that would keep them moving forward while the rest of the smart phone manufacturers tried to catch up to iPhone gen 1. Take a look back and look at the screen from the original iPhone to the 3GS. Besides 3G, take a look at the features and capabilities. Take a look at iPhone OS from 2 years ago to now. Nothing truly earthshattering. I've seen the "advances" because I owned an iPod touch. That coupled with my dumb flip phone carried me until my carrier of choice released a smart phone worthy of replacing my iTouch. That was Android. Now look at the pace that Android is advancing. In a very short time, it went from a newbie to something that Apple is catching up on in features in the next iPhone OS. There is no denying this. As Apple is now catching up, Google is still blazing forward at speeds which are causing the fragmentation of Android that the media is so crazed about.

What Google is catching up on now is the OS polish and computer to device "ecosystem" as everyone calls it. However, not everyone agrees the iTunes strategy is a catch up. While iPhone is heavily tied to relying on a PC or Mac, Android was made to stand on its own. Its a different way of looking at things. Want your music transferred from your computer to an Android device? Copy and paste in your computer's OS. Want to purchase new music? Amazon has an app for that which comes with Android devices (and they embed album art). Want to search and purchase apps? You do that on your phone not your computer!! Some say that the iPhone's dependency on a computer is its downfall. Obviously Google wants to convert some of the iPhone users to Android so is making an ecosystem that is more comfortable to them and to those that need to have that extra hand holding that comes with a platform like iTunes.

I for one am looking forward to competition. After Apple screwed everyone on other carriers by holding out with AT&T (there isn't anything that could make me go to that f'd up carrier) I am happy to see that not only have alternatives cropped up, but ones that in some respects, are ahead.
post #63 of 95
DoubleTwist? Tried it a few times and really hated it. Doesn't matter on its survival.

I do hope that is a central system using common services for purchasing media contents like musics and videos. Doesn't matter if there's DRM or not. As long as it's not tied to one ecosystem.

Central System that can be adapted or adopted everyone. Basically it can work with all major operating systems. This central system can be managed a consortium of hardware and software manufacturers.

Common services can be any vendor that uses the central system. These vendors can choose to use DRM or not that talk to the central system.

These vendors can be content providers like music labels, TV networks, movie studios, etc. They can dictate their own pricing. Of course if they priced too high, no one would buy. Ideally, the central system can spell out some guidelines on pricing to follow basically what we have now. A song not more than 79c; a TV Show not more than $1.99 (HD included); movies are a bit more tricky. If they charge like $5 to $15 for movies, they should be for life. For life meaning the purchaser can download or stream the movie again when there's an update in video resolution or audio track. Of course all within the DRM specs. I don't think movies will be DRM-free, EVER.

Google could run the central system. Not saying it has to be Google. Microsoft can be a contender too. Or simply someone who can build this ground up. Sorry, Apple will not be a candidate based on their ecosystem.

Now, everyone can go to these common services and buy contents and consume them with any computer system, media devices, smartphones, basically any hardware/software that works with the central system.

The central system can build universal software to handle purchasing and syncing. This central system shouldn't run the service exclusively. You don't want another ecosystem.

If you don't want one company to dominate in delivering media contents, everyone has to work together to come up with something I just thought up above. Of course, I expect Apple to block such a thought if it ever materializes.
post #64 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

With all the Apple bashing at Google it seems that they are trying to replicate some of that walled garden approach that apple has to their platform.

Google shipped out Nexus One because no one could really build a good android phone. That started the HTC - Google partnership, which essentially delivered the hottest android phones to date. This be the hardware - software integration.

Now Google is hiring a UI expert to synchronize the UI for their phones - another form of integration.

With Spotify Google is building a music store (because no one has made a good one so far) another form of integration.

Google is moving more and more to controlled app eco-system, forcing its hardware suppliers to adhere to strict rules, tight collaboration with HTC, new music service so on. This is somthing microsoft tried to do:
1. It was the open plays for sure partner.
2. It became Microsoft only - Windows only Zune.

I think google might face a similar dilema in the future, and it will be interesting to see which way they will go.

You have absolutely no clue as to what you are talking about. If you read any of Google's announcements, they are removing applications from the base OS and making them optional in the app store. How is that moving more and more to a controlled app eco-system? SERIOUSLY?

They are polishing their UI but still allowing third parties to do their own. How is that moving toward a controlled system? SERIOUSLY?

A music store app and desktop software. Yeah, that's moving toward a closed system <sarcasm>. While it may naturally kill off doubleTwist, it is something that probably should have been in place earlier. Again, this doesn't prevent you from using Amazon's app to purchase music or doubleTwist. Google is not forcing anyone to use it, just giving users what they were asking for.

Also, the Android OS allows you to install apps outside of the app store. So again, there's no replication of the walled garden. Google doesn't tell you what apps you can run or not. And pulling stuff for IP infringements or malware isn't a walled garden. A walled garden is someone putting an app out with a new idea that Apple doesn't like or has a competing app for and Apple saying no way. While their verification of apps is nice, the policy of "well I don't like it so I'm not going to let you publish it" when there is no other means the author has to publish it, is a shame. I love the latest one of the picture frame and overlay app that was "too much like a desktop" so Apple pulled it. WTF!!!!!!!! Can Apple be any more of a prick when it comes to approving apps? An iPhone or iPad is not your device....it's Steve's. And he likes it that way.
post #65 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by patroll View Post

I think you mean loss leaders. Unless you are referring to Ballmer, in which case you are correct in all sorts of ways.

Tru dat !

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post #66 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

I appreciate when companies are not afraid to go into uncharted territory. Take risks. Be bold. Display your intellectual prowess. It's saddening to see just how many phones have imitated the iPhone. They have simply replicated the iPhone while expanding on features and specs yet to be introduced. When the iPhone was released, there was nothing like it - now they're all variations of the same phone.

I dunno, I guess I just want to see a different class/category of phones. Apparently, Apple hasn't shown the world how to make one yet.

The iPhone is a great device but saying there was nothing like it is just not true, nothing was as polished as an iPhone. Apple didn't invent anything "new" they just took what was already around and made it much better. Making things simple and user friendly is actually a very hard thing to do.
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
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post #67 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Interesting.

Why doesn't Apple simply offer an iTunes app for Android (minus the apps)? Could be a good incremental revenue generator.

Two words "anti" and "trust"
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX to whom I bid farewell.
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX to whom I bid farewell.
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post #68 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by SinisterJoe View Post

The important thing to remember about Google is they basically have one revenue source and it's advertising. Going forward they will increasingly need to corner markets because advertisers need to be where the users are. Google's growth is directly tied to growing their advertising business. If another new service or product comes along not serving Google ads or otherwise promoting Google's services it's an attack on their core. It's a troubling future to me because it puts Google into the Microsoft growth model of needing to dominate markets and stamp out competition early and often. We saw this recently with the AdMob purchase. It's rumored they tried to buy both Facebook and Twitter in the past. I'm really surprised with all the controversy over Facebook privacy and Apple's App Store policies few people in the tech media are talking about Google's dark side. We're going to see a lot more of this in the future from Google.

Mind you, there is still a lot of the advertising world that Google does not own which they could buy to continue their incremental revenue story.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #69 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Two words "anti" and "trust"

For starters, 'anti' is not a word - it's a prefix.

Aside from that, you clearly don't have any concept of what antitrust laws area all about. There is clearly no antitrust issue if Apple were to release iTunes for Android. In fact, the more open they are and the more platforms they support, the LESS antitrust concerns there could be.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #70 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

The iPhone is a great device but saying there was nothing like it is just not true, nothing was as polished as an iPhone. Apple didn't invent anything "new" they just took what was already around and made it much better. Making things simple and user friendly is actually a very hard thing to do.

At last, somebody pointed out something conclusive. No, matter how many devices are there with how many number of OS'es unless it's simple and easy to use it will be still not worth it. Human nature is to adapt itself , ask people who used older nokia phones & older motorola phones. The real skill is it make things simple for an average and a below average user.

Andriod is the lifesaver for the N number of handset makers who don't have software worth being called UI & want to get out of Microsoft's clutches.
1. I guess no one is evil here as Google wants to earn so as Apple. Google earns by selling private info & Apple earns by selling device.
2. The cost of the phone is same, people wrongly calculate with what apple charges with what other vendors are charging, do remember the andriod phones cost are only the Hardware cost nothing to do with the Software cost (because it's free).
3. Google is not FSF who will have their developers sit and improve the OS without having it generate revenue for itself.
post #71 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

For starters, 'anti' is not a word - it's a prefix.

Aside from that, you clearly don't have any concept of what antitrust laws area all about. There is clearly no antitrust issue if Apple were to release iTunes for Android. In fact, the more open they are and the more platforms they support, the LESS antitrust concerns there could be.

But that openess would have to be both ways. Meaning letting whatever music services android users use be available to iPhone users. If they just made an iTunes android app then they'd be just trying to hoard additional customers increasing their market share and that my friend is an anti-trust violation.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX to whom I bid farewell.
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX to whom I bid farewell.
Reply
post #72 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

But that openess would have to be both ways. Meaning letting whatever music services android users use be available to iPhone users. If they just made an iTunes android app then they'd be just trying to hoard additional customers increasing their market share and that my friend is an anti-trust violation.

Don't quit your day job - you are absolutely, 100% clueless about the law. Apple can make a version of iTunes for any platform they wish. Your earlier post suggested that simply making iTunes for Android would be an antitrust violation - and that's 100% wrong.

Apple is also free to set rules for what apps are allowed on the iPhone. They have no obligation to carry any app they don't want to - any more than Walmart has any obligation to carry any product THEY don't want.

And I'm not your friend. Friends are people who are important to me - not anonymous Internet trolls.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #73 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Don't quit your day job - you are absolutely, 100% clueless about the law. Apple can make a version of iTunes for any platform they wish. Your earlier post suggested that simply making iTunes for Android would be an antitrust violation - and that's 100% wrong.

Apple is also free to set rules for what apps are allowed on the iPhone. They have no obligation to carry any app they don't want to - any more than Walmart has any obligation to carry any product THEY don't want.

And I'm not your friend. Friends are people who are important to me - not anonymous Internet trolls.

I guess I should've written more but in error thought most of you would understand what I was getting at. Apple already dominates music sold online by a big margin, and before u go on a rant I understand that they achieved this by having a better product and not by stifling the competition. They are already being investigated by the DoJ for anti-trust violations. They would without a doubt grab a larger market share if they do indeed make an iTunes app for android. I wasn't implying that WOULD be guilty of anti-trust laws but I'm certain the competition would see it differently. BTW buy bigger panties because the ones you're wearing are obviously too tight. And another thing, this entire article has nothing to do with Apple nor iTunes, if Google wants to sell music then good for them.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX to whom I bid farewell.
Reply
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX to whom I bid farewell.
Reply
post #74 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Apple is also free to set rules for what apps are allowed on the iPhone. They have no obligation to carry any app they don't want to - any more than Walmart has any obligation to carry any product THEY don't want.

Your analogy is flawed. If you were forced by Walmart to only be allowed to shop there and they would not carry the items you wanted, you would cry BS. In fact, isn't that communist like? In the US you would scream and sue because you couldn't get what you wanted at Walmart. What's more, people that have what you want try to get Walmart to sell it to you but because Walmart doesn't like it, too f'n bad for you. No other stores exists because Walmart won't allow it.

Or how about one step better. GM sells you a car that you can only put GM oil and BP gas into. You want to put in Mobil 1 but because you are only allowed GM oil that you must purchase from GM you can't. Unless you "break the law" and strip off the security features that prevent you from putting in Mobile 1 and purchase it elsewhere, you are SOL. But doing so would then void your warranty of course.

Glad you used the analogy because it clearly shows how screwed up Apple's mentality is. You can try to make Apple look good here but the fact is, their system sucks. They don't allow you to install apps but from their store and control what you can or cannot install. They completely monopolize the whole deal with no access to apps that aren't on Stevie's good list. But hey, if you like people in black turtle necks telling you what's best for you, then have at it.
post #75 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I guess I should've written more but in error thought most of you would understand what I was getting at. Apple already dominates music sold online by a big margin, and before u go on a rant I understand that they achieved this by having a better product and not by stifling the competition. They are already being investigated by the DoJ for anti-trust violations. They would without a doubt grab a larger market share if they do indeed make an iTunes app for android. I wasn't implying that WOULD be guilty of anti-trust laws but I'm certain the competition would see it differently. BTW buy bigger panties because the ones you're wearing are obviously too tight. .

Once again, it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about.

First, there's a RUMOR that Apple is being looked into by DOJ. No formal investigation has been launched. Even if it does get launched (due to whining from competitors), no charges have been filed.

There is absolutely nothing illegal about dominating music sold online. Nothing. Nor has anyone pointed out a single thing Apple has done that is illegal - by even the broadest interpretation of the law. Apple is allowed to sell what they want in their store.

Your inability to present a logical argument is really demonstrated by your childish rant at the end.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroNix View Post

Your analogy is flawed. If you were forced by Walmart to only be allowed to shop there and they would not carry the items you wanted, you would cry BS. In fact, isn't that communist like? In the US you would scream and sue because you couldn't get what you wanted at Walmart. What's more, people that have what you want try to get Walmart to sell it to you but because Walmart doesn't like it, too f'n bad for you. No other stores exists because Walmart won't allow it.

Or how about one step better. GM sells you a car that you can only put GM oil and BP gas into. You want to put in Mobil 1 but because you are only allowed GM oil that you must purchase from GM you can't. Unless you "break the law" and strip off the security features that prevent you from putting in Mobile 1 and purchase it elsewhere, you are SOL. But doing so would then void your warranty of course.

The analogy isn't the same. GM is not a retail store as the iTunes store is. But feel free to cite a specific part of the law that forces Apple to carry songs and software that they don't want to carry.

If you don't like Apple's policies, there are a wide range of other stores out there where you can buy music. That ensures that competition exists - regardless of whether people are choosing to use those stores or not.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #76 of 95
Google is hijacking every piece of the Internet real estate. Do you think that its offer of candies is an altruistic act? If you cannot see its design as a gold digger tapping into the thick vein of ads profits to its own advantage, you are sadly myopic in your understanding and judgement of human greed and stupidity.
post #77 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Interesting.

Why doesn't Apple simply offer an iTunes app for Android (minus the apps)? Could be a good incremental revenue generator.

That sounds like a very good idea. I see no reason why Apple shouldn't have an Android-friendly avenue into the iTunes store. And no reason not to offer a version of iTunes player for Android too.

Apple has all that stuff for Windows computers, so why not Android?
post #78 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

Trolls here claim that Google's market share will trump Apple, but really what did that get Microsoft?

Huge profits and gigantic market cap. Hundreds and hundreds of employees becoming millionaires. For decades.
post #79 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by iCarbon View Post

why didn't they call it gTunes?

That would have been very mischievous. And very funny.
post #80 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post


Bottom line, I want the security of that "walled garden". I love it that apple employee spends time to examine every app before it hits the store. This gives me peace of mind that virtually every app is virus free and cannot grab my personal data.



Do you want the security of that walled garden for your Mac too? Would you prefer that no Mac software could be installed unless you you bought it straight from Apple?
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