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Apple's iPhone market share three times greater than Android in US - Page 4

post #121 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Wasn't Android supposed to leave iPhone in the dust?

In the gold dust.

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post #122 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

In the gold dust.

Whaa?

post #123 of 250
Is there a secret to keeping interesting and informative discussions from descending into pissing contests? Just asking.\
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post #124 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickwalker View Post

Android will, but it will be a pyrrhic victory. Android is destined to be the default OS on cheap phones, a market segment unlikely to even care if it has Android or not. For these people, they will be happy with a dial tone and probably the ability to text and little more.

Wonder how many Android users even notice it's even running Android?

Well said. Android: the Windows of the mobile OS world.
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post #125 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

And in this case likely to change.

Right now they're excited about the form factor of the iPad, and today it's the only game in town in that regard. But by the end of summer there will be plenty of option available, and all devices but Apple's will be able to run many of the types of specialized apps those markets need because Apple is the only company in history to prohibit the proven cost-effectiveness of using cross-platform frameworks.

It's not the OS. They all have accelerometers, GPS, multitouch, etc., and most of them will have multi-tasking while Apple offers only what amounts to a game of Freeze Tag.

What matters is the apps. Jobs knows this, which is why he's making all these unprecedented moves to try to eliminate iPhone apps from profitably being deployed to any other OS. He has seemingly little confidence that Apple can sufficiently differentiate its product in an increasingly commoditized market, and instead is pushing to limit deployment options for app developers.

But for all his flailing, developers and their VCs will go where they can make the most money relative to investment, and where they don't face unusual risk of losing that investment every time Apple updates their SDK license: within a year we'll begin to see the effects of limiting developers' workflow options on vertical markets like medical, engineering, education, and many others.

In the meantime, those suffering from Stockholm Syndrome won't connect the dots between Apple's demonstrated untrustworthiness as a development partner and the downstream effects that lost trust has on developers. But it's coming just the same.

Gimme a break! Are there *any* profitable apps on other platforms?
post #126 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

However Solip also used the EVO for a bit and I would believe he would agree the 8 megapixel camera on the EVO is fairly impressive. As is the 1.3 webcam.

The stated specs are impressive, but as previously stated I wasn't able to see how well the images stacked up on a proper display. We all know that megapixels are great for marketing but they are from the only aspect of a camera that makes it a good camera.

For an Android phone, it's the best I've played with, but Android is still lacking in the key aspects that make iPhone and Blackberry owners love their devices. I'm not sure this can change unless a vendor follows suit by making a streamlined ecosystem for their HW that just happens to be based on Android.
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post #127 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Well this is really the kicker.

What happened to that "superphone" of Google's? The two phones that were supposed to spank the iPhone were the Droid and the Nexus One. And . . . nada. Nothing. Just a lot of bullet lists of "features" and marketing bluster. And now there's yet another one, the EVO-something or other, that will again be in the iPhone's shadow.

Fact is, no one, but NO ONE, is able to achieve the synergy - that elusive and rare sweet-spot between hardware and software - that Apple can. Why? Because Apple approaches tech at large from an entirely different angle. The kind of thinking that goes on in Cupertino is completely different and of a whole magnitude more focused on specific goals and principles than what goes on anywhere else. Hence,

It isn't about any one, single "feature."

So, is android becoming to the phone industry what Windows is to the PC world? You have hardware and software developed in two different locations, resulting in a subpar user experience. Like with PCs, I've noticed that many competitors are trying to compete with the iPhone by highlighting their faster processors, larger screens, and cheaper prices(2 for 1 deals), but have failed to realize that the OS is actually the differentiator, not the hardware. I saw a test performed on Gizmodo(I think) where two recent Android phones were matched against last years iPhone, and despite having faster processors and more RAM, both phones either matched or performed slightly worse the iPhone - negating the "superior specs". I've also seen tests where other phones have had higher MP cameras yet their pictures still paled in comparison to the iPhone's.

Am I spot on or clueless?
post #128 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

So, is android becoming to the phone industry what Windows is to the PC world? You have hardware and software developed in two different locations, resulting in a subpar user experience. Like with PCs, I've noticed that many competitors are trying to compete with the iPhone by highlighting their faster processors, larger screens, and cheaper prices(2 for 1 deals), but have failed to realize that the OS is actually the differentiator, not the hardware. I saw a test performed on Gizmodo(I think) where two recent Android phones were matched against last years iPhone, and despite have faster processors and more RAM, both phones either matched or performed slightly worse the iPhone - negating the "superior specs". I've also seen tests where other phones have had higher MP cameras yet their pictures still paled in comparison to the iPhone's.

Am I spot on or clueless?

You've more or less got the game figured out.

Well done.
post #129 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Lets remember the iPhone is going on its 4th Gen. Many of the Android phones are first generation phones. So many of them are going to fall short.

Google's had nearly four generations of iPhones to look at and play with. When do they plan to bring their platform out of beta? Hell, Schmidt was THERE for nearly the entire time.

Know why they *really* fall short?

Different (and wrong) priorities.
post #130 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickwalker View Post

Wonder how many Android users even notice it's even running Android?

Yup. On one hand, Android has ended up being the OS of choice for geeks who need to prove to themselves that they're smarter than your average iPhone buyer. By out-geeking them. As if anybody else actually gave a crap. (I suppose it's better for their mental health than playing video games all day.)

On the other hand, Android has also become the OS of choice for people who simply don't know any better or are locked in to Verizon or another non-AT&T carrier. "Wow, 2-for-1? Sign me up!" People who don't know any better (or just don't care) are evidently lured in by low price.

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post #131 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Whaa?


OMG. OK, bad metaphor...

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post #132 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


And every pretty much agrees that the Android market will pass the iPhone.

Of course Android will pass the iPhone's OS as it is only installed on a single phone. My question is, will any one of the many devices running Android ever have the kind of success enjoyed by the iPhone?
post #133 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Lets remember the iPhone is going on its 4th Gen. Many of the Android phones are first generation phones. So many of them are going to fall short.

The user experience with many of these Android phones is very good considering they are first generation phones and a second gen OS. A few years from now it could be a totally different ball games when it comes to Android.

Android has had years to be developed. It was openly bought by Google in 2005(?) and we was well known before the iPhone was ever officially announced. The fact that Google had to make a switch from copying BB OS to copy iPhone OS is inconsequential as they released the first Android phone the next year, not long after the first 3G iPhone.

On the HW front, these vendors have had years to play around with the Android OS and have been building phones long before Apple entered the market.

I'm surprised that Apple has been able to increase its lead so much against these well worn handset vendors and Android. I figured that Android on phones would have out sold the iPhone by now. To me this shows Apple is much smart company than I gave them credit for and/or these other vendors are more incompetent than I thought.
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post #134 of 250
This isn't quite as rosy as iPhone fans would like it to be. Keep in mind that the iPhone has been out for three years now, whereas Android phones have only been generally available for a little over 6 months. For Android to pick up that much market share in such a short time is phenomenal. And its growth rate certainly exceeds that of the iPhone. iPhone sales have slowed, while Android's continue to improve.

Long story short, there are a lot of iPhones out there, but if current trends continue, Android phones will not just outsell, but outnumber iPhones before we know it.
post #135 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by djdj View Post

This isn't quite as rosy as iPhone fans would like it to be. Keep in mind that the iPhone has been out for three years now, whereas Android phones have only been generally available for a little over 6 months. For Android to pick up that much market share in such a short time is phenomenal. And its growth rate certainly exceeds that of the iPhone. iPhone sales have slowed, while Android's continue to improve.

Long story short, there are a lot of iPhones out there, but if current trends continue, Android phones will not just outsell, but outnumber iPhones before we know it.

Refer to post #144.
post #136 of 250
All the talk about which features make which phone the one most likely to succeed is just a pissing contest.

The market is shaped by what the retailers can get out of it. For example, even though the iPhone is a clear leader in the market at the moment (ignoring BB, just iPhone vs Android), the major Telcos's in Australia will put 15 android or non iPhone other phones on the front page of their sales brochures, not the iPhone.

Why? Because they no doubt make more profit from flogging off the cheap competition than selling the iPhone. Telcos usually sell all phones for a premium no matter how cheap the manufacturer churns them out for.

If you think the vast majority of consumers that buy phones do so because of technical features you are as dilusional as those that thought the iPad would tank, and those that are holding their breath until 2012. (How ironic, Android will finally overtake iPhone the year the world ends) (no, I don't subscribe to that theory, just a but of fun)
post #137 of 250
Yes, but Android has just begun. Looks like Apple in in for some competition.
post #138 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Lets remember the iPhone is going on its 4th Gen. Many of the Android phones are first generation phones. So many of them are going to fall short.

I take your point. But this is also true: While many of those phones ARE first generation, they were not developed in a vacuum, but in the context of wide variety of competing hardware. To a degree, iPhone can only improve itself over its own last model, while the Android competition can use the strengths and weaknesses of many iterations of Android driven hardware on which to base their improvements. So the generational playing field is more level than it might appear.
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post #139 of 250
Lets also add this to the mix:
Android isn't even a company but a free OS that is piggybacking onto an already existing cell phone business.
The so called Android Phone is nothing but a coalition of COMPETING cell phone makers pimping the OS.
post #140 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

I take your point. But this is also true: While many of those phones ARE first generation, they were not developed in a vacuum, but in the context of wide variety of competing hardware. To a degree, iPhone can only improve itself over its own last model, while the Android competition can use the strengths and weaknesses of many iterations of Android driven hardware on which to base their improvements. So the generational playing field is more level than it might appear.

Yes, so the generation of any Android phone is more correctly calculated as the number of all Android phones from all manufacturers produced before it, especially since they all end up sharing technology through Google, and are all copying each other as well as the iPhone.
post #141 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksmith22 View Post

Well obviously my biostatistics/epi course from medical school was better than what they taught at your place.

I think the salient point is that application of statistics is not an exact science. It takes knowledge of the problem domain and an understanding of the data, as well as the mathematics of statistics to know what tests to apply. It's possible to "show" significant results by applying statistical tests incorrectly -- i.e., not only are the results not significant, but the entire misapplied analysis is in fact meaningless. You should consider the possibility that the statistical methods and tests you learned in bio-statistics and epidemiology classes may be wholly inappropriate to economic and market issues. It sounds like you are more hubris than thoughtful analysis, and I can't say you've demonstrated any deep knowledge of either the problem domain or statistics.
post #142 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Well said. Android: the Windows of the mobile OS world.


So do you think it will eventually be on 90+% of the mobile phones out there?
post #143 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Well it wasn't until Apple starting making hugh leaps that the cell phone industry woke up. I am not sure it was incompetent more then no real competition. How bad is it that the Razr was the best selling phone around and everyone one earth seemed to want one. I mean what a joke. Blackberry was really the smartphone to have and the smartphone market was pretty dead except for business.

The thing about the Razr is that it was the best solution to a completely different problem: the problem of how to make a phone as small as possible, without making it too small (what was that tiny little phone Ericsson (I think) used to make, so small you could barely hold it?), and get decent phone performance out of it. As such, it was an extremely good phone. But it was a solution to a completely different problem.

Quote:
Before the iPhone how many consumers actually had data plans, not many that I knew. Most of the data plans were for business users.

The Android market had no real effort put into it until recently. Which again goes to show that the best way to breed innovation is competition. Not to mention everyone saw how fat Apple wallet was getting off this cash cow.

Actually, I think your last sentence nails it. Competition isn't breeding innovation here. What's breeding it is one company producing a vastly superior product and then a bunch of companies are copying it trying to catch up and cash in on its success. I think the ability of competition, as a force in isolation, to produce innovation, is highly overrated and that it's an idea more strongly grounded in ideology and "the common wisdom" than in empirical evidence.


Edit: In fact, I would say that Android and Android phones represent no, or at most very little, innovation at all. The competition from Android represents a tacking on and refinement of features to the innovation that was the iPhone. It may result in better phones (better than preceding phones) but to call it innovation is to trivialize what innovation really is.
post #144 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

So do you think it will eventually be on 90+% of the mobile phones out there?

Playing coy now, are we?
post #145 of 250
While I enjoy some of Apple's products, I'm leaving the iPhone behind. As an original iPhone owner, I've enjoyed the phone for the last 3 years and will be the first to say that it revolutionized the mobile industry. However, I'm not to happy with Apple's business strategies lately. Their walled garden, big brother attitude. I had to jail-break my phone just so I could access the file system and load the software that I want to load on it. It kind of sucks that Apple takes the attitude of telling it's users what they can load on the phones they bought. And more importantly, controlling hard working developers such as myself.

I've recently ordered a HTC Incredible from Verizon, which in NYC will allow me to actually make phone calls.

The way that Android integrates social media into its OS better get Apple's attention. It certainly kills the iPhone in that respect.
post #146 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The stated specs are impressive, but as previously stated I wasn't able to see how well the images stacked up on a proper display.


I heard in another thread that 5 out of 5 people cannot even figure out how to take a picture with a Android phone. I think I heard from you that there is no camera app installed with the OS.

Is there anything to that stuff?
post #147 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Am I spot on or clueless?

Neither.
post #148 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Of course Android will pass the iPhone's OS as it is only installed on a single phone. My question is, will any one of the many devices running Android ever have the kind of success enjoyed by the iPhone?

Probably. I'd wager, for example, that certain Windows computers outsell all the various Macs put together. Eventually, if trends continue, who knows what will happen in the phone market?
post #149 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolphyjazz View Post

While I enjoy some of Apple's products, I'm leaving the iPhone behind. As an original iPhone owner, I've enjoyed the phone for the last 3 years and will be the first to say that it revolutionized the mobile industry. However, I'm not to happy with Apple's business strategies lately. Their walled garden, big brother attitude. I had to jail-break my phone just so I could access the file system and load the software that I want to load on it. It kind of sucks that Apple takes the attitude of telling it's users what they can load on the phones they bought. And more importantly, controlling hard working developers such as myself.

I've recently ordered a HTC Incredible from Verizon, which in NYC will allow me to actually make phone calls.

The way that Android integrates social media into its OS better get Apple's attention. It certainly kills the iPhone in that respect.

Apple can't tell me what apps that I can install on my phone just like I can't tell Apple what apps to sell on their store.
post #150 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

So do you think it will eventually be on 90+% of the mobile phones out there?

That is a real possibility. But just as Apple is doing quite well vis-a-vis Microsoft while a minority player in the desktop OS market, it is also a possibility that Apple will continue to do well by doing what they do: develop the next big thing ahead of the pack. Right now it's the mobile OS, but who knows what's next?
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post #151 of 250
Maybe, just maybe the general public has had enough of 'software company sells to any hardware maker' and is ready now for an integrated experience.
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post #152 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

Probably. I'd wager, for example, that certain Windows computers outsell all the various Macs put together. Eventually, if trends continue, who knows what will happen in the phone market?

And make a fraction of the profit in so doing.
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post #153 of 250
In the end it doesn't matter so long as both make awesome phones that up the ante on other device makers. We all win then.

I'm personally waiting to see if RIM can pull off an OS that comes up to speed with the iPhone. Or at least close to it.

Been a long time RIM user so I'd like to give them a chance before I skip off to the competition.
post #154 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Apple can't tell me what apps that I can install on my phone just like I can't tell Apple what apps to sell on their store.

mmmm... on the first part, unless you jail break it sure they can. On the second point, you got one out of two. Was this a game?
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post #155 of 250
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Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Playing coy now, are we?

Perhaps Stevie is, but it is also a fair question, and one that logically follows my post. See #165 for my answer.
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post #156 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

True. But no one can say that Apple and Steve Jobs isn't big on controlling content what they they feel your experience should be. Something like the lack of Flash on the iPad because SJ doesn't like Flash is a perfect example. Apple create an arena and then only allows you to play within the walls they create.

Clearly many are willing to deal with that but lets not pretend that isn't the case.

It isn't that he simply "doesn't like Flash", as if no one else shared the same views. Flash has been a problem for a while now. Many consider it the bane of the internet.

But it makes no difference anyway because you won't be responding to these posts, for obvious reasons. Quelle surprise.

Yes, Apple creates an arena . . . and consumers and the rest of the industry want in, partly because it's the most cohesive consumer software/hardware environment on the planet. Apple's "walled garden" is precisely the reason for their success.
post #157 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Quadra the only spot is the softspot that is directly between your ears. Yet again you have never even touch these phones yet commenting on hardware and software you don't even have a clue about.

Its actually about all of the above. And every pretty much agrees that the Android market will pass the iPhone.

For you its all about fanboyism, about being #1 or having the #1 product.

I don't agree with a word you say, why do you write as if you are blessed with clairvoyance? Try the old 'IMHO' approach and come off as less dogmatic eh?
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post #158 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

True. But no one can say that Apple and Steve Jobs isn't big on controlling content what they they feel your experience should be. Something like the lack of Flash on the iPad because SJ doesn't like Flash is a perfect example. Apple create an arena and then only allows you to play within the walls they create.

I don't believe for one second that Steve woke up one morning and decided he's going to hate Flash. As stated many times, he has asked Adobe on many occasions to provide Apple with a version of Flash that doesn't suck on a mobile device. Has Adobe delivered? No. If I owned Apple, I would have made the exact decision.

If I was the creator of a revolutionary product like the iPhone, I would seek to provide the best user experience possible - abandoning Adobe is a step in the right direction.

To you though, he's telling you what you can and can't do. To me, he's telling Adobe to pull their heads out of their asses. At the end of the day, if I couldn't live without Flash, I wouldn't buy the iPhone or I'd jailbreak it and try installing it - the decision is mine.
post #159 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Apple can't tell me what apps that I can install on my phone just like I can't tell Apple what apps to sell on their store.

Actually, Apple has been outspoken against jail braking an iPhone and said that it voids the warranty. Sounds like Micro$oft speak to me.

As a developer, I would never develop software for a client only to have an intermediary step in and say "sorry, we don't allow that software."
post #160 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I don't agree with a word you say, why do you write as if you are blessed with clairvoyance? Try the old 'IMHO' approach and come off as less dogmatic eh?

No, he's blessed (or cursed, rather) with crass responses. That's some people's calibre, unfortunately.

In any case, this entire thread seems like a monumental effort to spin positive news about Apple into something else. The thing is, it doesn't work because it has no basis in reality. On mindshare alone, Apple dominates the consumer tech landscape.
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