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Apple's iPhone market share three times greater than Android in US - Page 6

post #201 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by London View Post

The figures presented were market share, so a 2% share gain would only be zero or negative unit growth (decline) in a shrinking market. And in a shrinking market, marketshare gains would still be an important metric of company/sales health. In fact, it could be arguably even more significant in that situation.

*You need to check out my edit line in the post*
post #202 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksmith22 View Post

With the data shown you can't say with certainty that android isn't taking market share from apple, I'm not saying they are, just saying that you can't make that statement. Why? Because who is to say that android isn't taking share from apple and apple is taking share from windows and rim. apple and android will both show increases in market share.

Surely, some Android users are ex-iPhone users. In fact, I'd wager there are more iPhone-to-Android switcher than the reverse, just because Android phones haven't been around in large enough numbers for long enough for anybody who doesn't loathe their phone to switch (e.g., pay large ETFs/change networks). But as a percent of Android's total market share, it's unlikely to be a significant number (especially if only 7% of iPhone users are considering Android phones). Moreso, from a market share perspective, it doesn't really matter. You can only take share from a competitor that loses share.
post #203 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

Apple (as has been stated previously) has a quarter or so of the market. There is no indication that Android is making inroads into the iPhone market - that is, taking away iPhone users from the iPhone installed base (which incidentally has something on the order of an 80-90% user satisfaction rating among iPhone owners). More likely the increases come as a combination of smartphone segment growth, erosion of one or more of the current market leaders (RIM/Win) and other minority platforms. If you you use real numbers instead of comparative numbers your logic fails obviously: while an increase from 4% to 6% represents a 50% increase of marketshare over the lower number, point in fact is that if the entire market shifted up that 2% - it is a net 0% growth. Alternatively, you can also argue that if 2% of a given market is 1000, then regardless of the 4% or the 76% the net gain in real numbers is still only 1000 for each. So you see your examples fail to encompass all possible interpretations of the data.

When did I ever say that it encompassed all possible interpretations? And saying that it has net 0% growth is only applicable here if you're just considering it against the iphone which the survey does not do, or if there is a decrease in overall number of phones. The iphone is not the "entire market"

I've never even framed this into an android vs. iphone debate. The only opinion I have is that these surveys don't really tell you anything.
post #204 of 250
Tomorrow the entire world's media will be covering the new iPhone. Another Android phone? Few would know unless the maker buys ads. Mindshare.
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post #205 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by London View Post

IRC, it was around 6 hours based on non-video/game use. Unfortunately, I don't know which review it was. Probably Engadget or Gizmodo. Frankly, the battery was so poor, it was almost baffling. The reviewer even speculated that the only way it could have been brought to market is if the engineers had never used a competing phone.

I can't find the review I was reading on Friday, but the guy testing it barely talked on the phone, did some pretty casual to mid-level usage and had the phone last 2 days between charges. He did highly recommend people snag one of the several apps in the droid store that help you manage leftover programs. He also turns gps, bluetooth and wi-fi off, puts a button on the home screen for them and turns them on as needed.

Good tips all around really, but I do wish that it seemed like other companies gave a shit about battery life (in phones, laptops or tablets). Generally it has seemed like products have awful battery life, then Apple comes along with a new product and decimates the battery life of competing products. Then the companies start talking about their commitment to battery life. Having something that is top-end is nice and all, but if the battery dies in no time flat, how does that keep me portable and not chained to a wall or computer via USB?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Tomorrow the entire world's media will be covering the new iPhone. Another Android phone? Few would know unless the maker buys ads. Mindshare.

Proof that HTC learned the lesson shown to the market with the Palm Pre.
post #206 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

...
Today Apple holds a lead with phone apps, but between their limited carriers, offering a single phone model, and the one-two punch to developers of SDK 4.0 and the growing number of arbitary AppStore purgings, we can safely expect that to level off within a year, ceding the majority of development investment to Android.

Nonsense! Apple offers a broader range than any other company currently. There is the current cellphone for those who enjoy a monthly cellphone bill, an equivalent iPod for those who don't, and the incredibly successfully launched iPad. All three share the same OS and API's (if you can develop for one you can develop for all three). No one is currently competitive for developer mindshare in the mobile market.

Whatever is revealed tomorrow will help determine if this remarkable momentum continues. Of course one needs to largely disregard the early reactions by the critics. Remember that as the iPod evolved there were always voices that remarked that the fall of Apple in this market was drawing near because of all the superior competition. The reaction of customers this fall will be a much better barometer of how well Apple is handling the evolution of this "new" OS.
post #207 of 250
"Newcomer Android captures market 1/3 size of iPhone market"

As an Apple iPhone user, I find that far more interesting.
post #208 of 250
Though I admire the guys with the good knowledge of statistics in this forum, I must point out that we are still talking about roughly 11.000 test persons, which is hardly a representable amount of people compared to the population of the US of A ....
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post #209 of 250
Well, I'm not surprise by the numbers and it might just increase with the upcoming launch of the new Apple iPhone 4G. Apple will continue to dominate the market for many years to come.
post #210 of 250
6 months???

We have unsold HTC Magics in our store which are well over a year old and they came out after the G1.

So I don't know where you are pulling this six month figure from, maybe the Droid???

Quote:
Originally Posted by djdj View Post

This isn't quite as rosy as iPhone fans would like it to be. Keep in mind that the iPhone has been out for three years now, whereas Android phones have only been generally available for a little over 6 months. For Android to pick up that much market share in such a short time is phenomenal. And its growth rate certainly exceeds that of the iPhone. iPhone sales have slowed, while Android's continue to improve.

Long story short, there are a lot of iPhones out there, but if current trends continue, Android phones will not just outsell, but outnumber iPhones before we know it.
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post #211 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Am I imagining things or this place crawling with Debbie Downers lately? Between the trolls, pessimists, and armchair CEOs is there anybody left here to enjoy Apple's products and success? I guess not.

Well, this site IS called AppleInsider, not AppleLover
post #212 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolphyjazz View Post

Actually, Apple has been outspoken against jail braking an iPhone and said that it voids the warranty. Sounds like Micro$oft speak to me.

As a developer, I would never develop software for a client only to have an intermediary step in and say "sorry, we don't allow that software."


Well, developers are just like any other businessman. Some strive to be the best ... while others strive to just be.
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post #213 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbobf View Post

Yes, but Android has just begun. Looks like Apple in in for some competition.

Android really isn't competing with the iPhone. Remember that Android was bought by Google because Google was afraid of being shut out by MS and was bought before Apple released the iPhone.

I think Google wouldn't have bothered if they had known that the iPhone was the success for both Apple and Google but Google paid a lot of money for Android.
post #214 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post

o.k. I'll bite. I am an avowed apple fan girl and have been so since 2003 when I gave up on my crappy windows/me windows/2000 computers. What ARE the innovations that Apple has copied from MS?

Multi User without having to log out. Of course that feature has always been in BSD UNIX anyway.
post #215 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by London View Post

IRC, it was around 6 hours based on non-video/game use. Unfortunately, I don't know which review it was. Probably Engadget or Gizmodo. Frankly, the battery was so poor, it was almost baffling. The reviewer even speculated that the only way it could have been brought to market is if the engineers had never used a competing phone.


Wow. Other than that, I hear good things. But the battery needs to last from when I get up in the AM until I put it in the recharger at bedtime.

The iPhone has a shorter battery life then dumbphones (remember when we used to charge a phone once a week?) but it will last all day and if you forget to charge, it will standby for most of a second day. Short, but good enough.
post #216 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

Short, but good enough.

The iPad is amazing however, and I bet the iPhone HD gets some of that technology.
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post #217 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkAdrian View Post

Though I admire the guys with the good knowledge of statistics in this forum, I must point out that we are still talking about roughly 11.000 test persons, which is hardly a representable amount of people compared to the population of the US of A ....


11,000 is plenty enough to get a reasonably accurate sample. What's the margin of error?
post #218 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

The iPad is amazing however, and I bet the iPhone HD gets some of that technology.

The iPad's battery life is indeed amazing. Especially given the screen size.
post #219 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post

Out of curiosity, do you also prefer the open data collection and open snooping into your data that is the business of Big Google Brother?

Absolutely not and Google should be ashamed for those practices. Data security is my number one concern in these wild west days of the internet. Google's practices in this area should cause everyone to think about the information they are releasing on the world. Is it secure? What are the risks involved? Especially those using social media applications.
post #220 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdbryan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post
...
Today Apple holds a lead with phone apps, but between their limited carriers, offering a single phone model, and the one-two punch to developers of SDK 4.0 and the growing number of arbitary AppStore purgings, we can safely expect that to level off within a year, ceding the majority of development investment to Android.

Nonsense! Apple offers a broader range than any other company currently.

I agree with you completely, but please note that we're talking about two different things: you're describing (accurately, IMO) the *current* state of development investment, but I'm projecting the impact of Apple's unprecedented limitations and bait-n-switch tactics with developers over the *next year*.

If the implications of Apple's demonstrated willingness to pull the rug out from under developers is unclear at this time, prowl around developer sites. People are getting nervous, and not without good reason.

"Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me."
post #221 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Well, developers are just like any other businessman. Some strive to be the best ... while others strive to just be.

I'm not sure what this statement is supposed to mean. The platform a developer develops on has nothing to do with the quality of the software.
post #222 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

So do you think it will eventually be on 90+% of the mobile phones out there?

~90% of the models in production? Sure.

~90% of the total handsets in use? Not a chance (as things stand)!
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post #223 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Apple's App Store policies are still not really analogous to the problems of Microsoft. Apple is building two concurrent development platforms. The native app store which they do control and HTML5 web apps where you are free to do anything you want.

Even more HTML5 can be used to the benefit of any of Apple's competitors. MS has not historically participated in building anything that freed the user from the Windows ecosystem.

The Google model is not a panacea it does come with its own set problems and challenges.

I agree with your statement about HTML5. In most cases, I'd much rather go to a mobile website than use an application. It promotes interoperability.
post #224 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

Lets also add this to the mix:
Android isn't even a company but a free OS that is piggybacking onto an already existing cell phone business.
The so called Android Phone is nothing but a coalition of COMPETING cell phone makers pimping the OS.

THIS, FTW

People talk about Android as if it was a coherent thing in a meaningful sense, when the fact that shipping phones use different versions proves it's nonsense. Different - yet not so different - from the "Apple monopoly / Windows gives you choice" floorwash.
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post #225 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Obvious View Post

THIS, FTW

People talk about Android as if it was a coherent thing in a meaningful sense, when the fact that shipping phones use different versions proves it's nonsense. Different - yet not so different - from the "Apple monopoly / Windows gives you choice" floorwash.


You can buy different version of Windows too. XP is still selling well, for example. Even Windows 7 comes in different versions for different devices.

Windows is a coherent thing. So is Android.
post #226 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Can you please provide a full list of all features you think are missing from Symbian (s60 is the ui) that means it shouldn't be classed as a smartphone OS?

Symbian has features? This is about SYMBIAN???

Seriously, if that's your level of discourse, you'll be taken as a troll. for sure. Best to keep quiet.
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post #227 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Obvious View Post

Symbian has features? This is about SYMBIAN???

Seriously, if that's your level of discourse, you'll be taken as a troll. for sure. Best to keep quiet.

So true! LOL
post #228 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Obvious View Post

Symbian has features?

Have you ever used it?
post #229 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

If the battery lasts less then a full day of heavy use, that is a deal-killer for me.

Fortunately, your satisfaction is no-one's benchmark.
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post #230 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Again with the personal attacks. And nitpicking screen names from a person who chose "solipsism"? Almost interesting.

Yes, the link I provided was to an article very clearly titled as being about iPad apps.

Yet not surprisingly the steeply L-shaped curve of overall App Stores sales apparently applies across the board:

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/04/21/estim...ng-372k-a-day/

http://www.cultofmac.com/developers-...e-number/15250

http://taptaptap.com/blog/final-numbers-for-july/

http://www.newsweek.com/2009/10/05/s...-for-that.html



All discussion on this I can find shows that the top 100 apps are indeed doing very well, but below that the chasm drops precipitously, and the other 299,900 apps are pulling in revenues that range from less than the average Mac desktop developer to below minimum wage.

If you can find stats showing the 50th percentile making above minimum wage I'd love to see 'em.

...now the number is 299,900 and you wonder why people question your motives?
post #231 of 250
Quote:
If the implications of Apple's demonstrated willingness to pull the rug out from under developers is unclear at this time, prowl around developer sites. People are getting nervous, and not without good reason.

the real story is the movement of 200,000 people to a platform which involved learning a new language ( for most), buying a mac ( for many), and paying $90 ( for all). so why did they do that? to make money. Some indies have made millions, there is no anecdotal evidence of that happening on the Anrdoid market.

Quote:
I'm not sure what this statement is supposed to mean. The platform a developer develops on has nothing to do with the quality of the software.

Yes, it does. And I would go further - if you are not prepared to program in Obj C ( or C) you shouldn't be on the platform. In fact if you are not prepared to program - at some level - in C, and C++ ( and/or OpenGL) you are less useful. Jobs is right, the Flash developer will produce generic boilerplate code - for instance I am eying a new API in OS 4 to do something I couldn't do in OS 3.0. The Flash guy would not even be aware of what was in OS 4.0 vs OS 3.0. Similarly I wouldn't expect a port of Cocoa to Windows to be the best.

Quote:
but below that the chasm drops precipitously, and the other 299,900 apps are pulling in revenues that range from less than the average Mac desktop developer to below minimum wage.

I assume you mean 199,900. Correct, but websites dont make money and yet employ people to write websites. It is expected. iPhone devs dont have to survive on the app store, but on contracts etc. I am looking at a job paying up t £350 a day in London, but that involves a lot of C++ coding in the Backend for the iPhone. I also have apps on the app store. Not making a fortune, but then if it is not my real job all income is extra.
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post #232 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

You can buy different version of Windows too. XP is still selling well, for example. Even Windows 7 comes in different versions for different devices.

Windows is a coherent thing. So is Android.

Different flavors of XP, Vista or Win7 aren't the same thing as the different versions of Android (or for that matter, the fragmentation of the Windows market into pre-XP, XP and Vista/Win7 camps). Android is more fragmented than Windows, with a broad variety of screen configs, different versions of the OS, and manufacturer mods. From a developer standpoint, you're effectively developing for each phone independently, not for the platform as a whole. On a desktop, it doesn't matter to the developer what your screen resolution is (most of the time, at least); on a phone, it's vital. Huge gaps in processor/memory in models impacts any developer wishing to push a lot of data, which is only an issue for a small segment of the PC desktop gaming community and some other desktop niche markets.

As processing speed and memory become cheaper, the differences between low-end and flagship models will probably matter less to developers, but for now, it's a real limitation on how much effort is involved in developing an Android app.
post #233 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Obvious View Post

Fortunately, your satisfaction is no-one's benchmark.


That's strange, it is the only one I ever use.
post #234 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Some indies have made millions, there is no anecdotal evidence of that happening on the Anrdoid market.

I'm thinking that the demographic favors the Apple ecosystem for folks that pay for apps as opposed to seek open source/free solutions.

Quote:
In fact if you are not prepared to program - at some level - in C, and C++ ( and/or OpenGL) you are less useful.

Less useful than what? I've done years of real time C/C++ coding and frankly these days I prefer Java and C#. And I can do DirectX in C#/XNA and JOGL in Java. Dalvik could use a bit of refinement but Java and .NET managed code is very performant these days.

Quote:
Jobs is right, the Flash developer will produce generic boilerplate code - for instance I am eying a new API in OS 4 to do something I couldn't do in OS 3.0. The Flash guy would not even be aware of what was in OS 4.0 vs OS 3.0. Similarly I wouldn't expect a port of Cocoa to Windows to be the best.

Which has little to do with something like monotouch that provides a fairly thin wrapper around the ObjC API calls. That said, you are better off learning ObjC/Cocoa although I wish they had GC working. Perhaps they do in iOS4.


I assume you mean 199,900. Correct, but websites dont make money and yet employ people to write websites. It is expected. iPhone devs dont have to survive on the app store, but on contracts etc. I am looking at a job paying up t £350 a day in London, but that involves a lot of C++ coding in the Backend for the iPhone. I also have apps on the app store. Not making a fortune, but then if it is not my real job all income is extra.[/QUOTE]
post #235 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Am I imagining things or this place crawling with Debbie Downers lately? Between the trolls, pessimists, and armchair CEOs is there anybody left here to enjoy Apple's products and success? I guess not.

There are. However there are (sadly) enough people who choose to engage the trolls that it does produce an annoying level of crap, even with the ignore lists.

I don't know what compells people to engage the trolls, and frankly I don't really care. I just wish that if they choose to wade into the cesspool with them that they wouldn't quote them so much

Esp. the really lazy people that quote entire posts

And despite the wishes of the trolls, Android isn't passing the iPhone in over all sales any time soon. Android barely outsold Apple in the quarter before Apple's annual product refresh - and that's with fire sales, extensive ad blitzes and "free tethering for everyone". Talk about racing to the bottom; they might actually have to innovate instead of throwing out feature after feature and two for one fire sales.
post #236 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Today Apple holds a lead with phone apps, but between their limited carriers, offering a single phone model, and the one-two punch to developers of SDK 4.0 and the growing number of arbitary AppStore purgings, we can safely expect that to level off within a year, ceding the majority of development investment to Android.

It would be fun saving this and pointing out how wrong you are in six months and every six months from then on. Except you probably won't be around...
post #237 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

The antitrust enforcers are now checking things out to see if Apple may have fallen off the wagon. There are allegations that they are using unfair tactics to stifle competition, rather than doing what you identify.

Sour grapes from competitors too stupid or lazy to compete with Apple by producing a better experience.

You would think after the regulatory failures in the financial sector and the regulatory failures of government in Katrina (Bush) and now the Gulf (Obama) that people would have learned by now that "the government" isn't a magic bullet.

Yet here are people basically rooting for bogus anti-trust saber rattling for whatever reasons. Pretty pathetic

Apple is no where near qualifying for anti-trust. These investigations will never get past the "investigative" stage. Otherwise you want to tall about fraud, waste and abuse in government
post #238 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

A stronger case than antitrust can be made for "restraint of trade" with regard to dictating developer tools.

You are ignorant of the law. Restrant of trade would be Apple stating that if you develop for the iPhone you can't develop for any other platform.

That's not what Apple is doing.

Apple is saying if you want to play in our sandbox, here are the rules.

What I find fascinating are all the a$$holes who want to criticize Apple for their sanbox, but are continually whining that they can't play in it. Which way is it? You either play by their rules or you don't. But just stop with the arrogant dictating that Apple cater to your every whim. Why can't there be room for both models?

To me, the single greatest benefit of the app store model is it puts the focus on the end user and the end user experience instead of the developers. It's about time.

If you don't like it, there are plenty of other platforms to develop on (and why anti trust crap will go no where).

The reason there is such a fuss about Apple and the app store by developers who are so quick to point out all Apple is doing wrong is Apple has the profits where the other platforms are not nearly as profitable. That's the elephant in the room no one in the tech press wants to address. It's less about "open" and anti-trust then a bunch of developers that have traditionally been able to do whatever they want throwing a tantrum that anyone dare challenge them. Give me a break!

Thank goodness Apple and Steve are pretty darn impervious to inane chatter and able to ignore the whining What really drives the Cory Doctrows and other whiners crazy is the continued blockbuster success of Apple. They know that as Apple continues each blockbuster quarter, outdoing each previous quarter (even quarters that have historically been down), their arguments ring more and more hollow. Expect the hysteria about the "evil", "monopolistic", and "insert adjective here" Apple to really ratchet up this year as they get more and more frantic. Think the trolls in this and other forums is bad now? We ain't seen nothing yet
post #239 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

The relatively small cost of creating a Verizon iPhone outweighs those lost sales.

Not if Verizon is still making unreasonable demands for control.

Every time the Verizon CEO talks about Apple and the iPhone, it's confrontational. I don't see Apple coming to Verizon any time soon. And with the iPad, iPod touch and ironically tethering on Android, the iPhone on Verizon is less of an issue. Apple isn't totally dependent on the iPhone for their ecosystem. All iDevices are pretty much peers. Android is a shambles in comparison and the lackluster web usage stats and lackluster Android app store sales bare this out. An android phone is compelling because aside from everything else it's still a phone, and at the current fire sale prices there isn't much risk for someone who wouldn't normally consider a smartphone to try Android. If the rest of the android ecosystem isn't as compelling as the iOS (to use the new and very welcome rebranding) then why exactly are people going to buy android tablets? Once you get past the gadget freaks and Apple haters who are they going to sell to?

Also, I think AT&T's new lower entry point with their data plan is going to spawn an explosion of new iPhone customers combined with the new hardware and OS coming out later this month - I know at least 5 people who wouldn't have considered an iPhone at the previous monthly rates but are now very interested in the iPhone.
post #240 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

You come too short. They have 28% with one phone, and on one carrier. Once they rectify that they will become a monopoly.

That's another reason I don't see Apple in a hurry to get on Verizon.

Really, it's too easy
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