Apple unveils redesigned, thinner iPhone 4 with two cameras - Page 4

Except that Jobs is right. There isn't another phone out now that comes within a mile of this one. And there won't be for a while yet.

It's true that other phones have (crappy) 5 MP cameras. Big deal. No one else has a working front facing camera using video chat yet that works well. The software has been withdrawn that supposedly works fairly well, and the only software that is out, hardly works at all. Neither as yet allows camera switching in the middle of the call.

No other phone has 7 hours of 3G calling, or 10 hours of video, or 40 hours of music.

None has a screen that's anywhere near as good.

None has a gyro that will make gaming, and other programs much better and versatile. Nintendo already mentioned Apple as their biggest competitor, this will hurt them much more.

I could mention others, but that's enough.

Just to clarify, you mean for 3GS owners?
Well, for 3GS owners I have to agree... but it is tempting

They are improvements no doubt. And very nice.
But are they compelling... hmm not for this 3GS owner... yet.

Camera update is tempting. I really like my 3GS camera, just needs that little bit improvement. Hopefully much improved reception with the fancy antenna. Definately will get the iOS 4 though.

Think about it... how much more hardware items can they cram into these things? Its going to get down to better(not more) hardware and better software.

The 300 dpi standard for printing is a completely different issue. Modern print is made of of dots arranged in a pattern. A typical screen pattern is 150 lines per inch. Therefore if a photo is 300 dpi that means that there is twice as much color information as required. Theoretically if the picture was only 150 dpi but the pixels precisely aligned with the dot screen, it would look identical to the 300 dpi printed photo. In all likelihood the screen and the pixels won't align so the 300 dpi guarantees that there will be no resolution degradation due to interpolation when the image is screened to 150 lines.

I think it's interesting that AT&T is offering upgrades to anyone whose contract expires in 2010 provided they agree to another 2 years. That kind of suggests that the September rumors of a Verizon iPhone may just be true, and AT&T is taking advantage of these last few months of exclusivity to lock in as many customers as possible.

To me, I only needed two things to buy an iPhone this year: Verizon (and I was willing to wait until September for that) and 64 GB. Since one of the devices the iPhone would be expected to replace is my old iPod, it needs to have enough capacity to at least hold what my current iPod holds, which is roughly 40GB. (Since an iPhone does so much more, I have to figure on current usage + storage for new uses, making going backwards a non-starter.)

::: Sigh ::: I guess I won't be getting an iPhone for the next 2 years. Android, here I come.

What is the angular resolution of the human eye, and what linear distance does this angle correspond to at 12" away? I believe Steve was claiming that it is 300 dpi.

If it were even the slightest bit larger than the current 3GS, I wouldn't be able to fit it in the same jeans pocket as my wallet, which would force me to either a) come up with an entirely new pocket strategy or wardrobe, or b) start carrying a man bag.

US

France

Germany

UK

Japan

that makes a shit load of people already... add 20 more a month later and everything else before 2011 and that'll make the Apple piggy bank ring a few times...

This beast is very desirable but honestly an unlocked version would be just the nuts. So any word on it being locked to AT&T?

By the way I know about the unofficial unlocks I'm just interested in a supported unlocked iPhone from Apple. Frankly the only reason is to support operation in countries outside the USA without going broke.

As to AT&T and keeping this phone locked I have to wonder why they bother? I mean really it is not like we have an alternative network to operate on.

Dave

My main point was that for me and many others like me, a $99 3GS 16G iPhone is a better deal.

And that Apple is not (mostly) doing better hardware - just what is "good enough" to sell new stuff to the faithful.
Nothing wrong or dishonest about it, but not much to create / convert many new faithful.
It's always their call, after all.

Jobs said it was as revolutionary as the first. I think that's a bit of a stretch is all.

I'm a consumer who's been watching this closely along with reading about and considering the Evo from Sprint. Jobs is a salesman who is trying to sell you something. Yes, our perceptions are a little different, but you go ahead and trust whoever you want.


Not only that, but HTC makes phones for different carriers. Like literally will rework the same phone 3 different ways for 3 different carriers if necessary. That doesn't stop the phones from evolving though.

I see your point, but again, he was only saying it because it's such a hot topic right now. If Jobs had him thrown out, that would have been an even bigger dick move lol.


Well the resolution of the screen is better than anything I can think of, but at some point on a phone it really doesn't matter all that much, and 480x800 has been around for a while. Front facing camera, 720 video recording, these are around as well. No doubt the iphone 4g has things that put it ahead of the crowd, but not by leaps and bounds as the salesmen would have us believe

I never said there was nothing new. Just the things he mentions as revolutionary do exist, and aren't as far ahead as he makes it out to be. But like you say, what do we expect from him? He's trying to sell the device.

I'm anxious to see how their 720p video recording compares to other devices. They said UP TO 30 fps. That doesn't mean it'll be 30 fps all the time.

I also find it interesting that you mention the screen resolution when people have been mentioning other phones' higher resolution for a few years now only to be told that sort of thing doesn't matter.


So you agree with Jobs then when he says it's as revolutionary as the first? That's all opinion I guess. I'll say that comparatively it's definitely looking to be the best, ESPECIALLY at the price it's going for.

Now my dilemma: Pay $200 Sprint ETF, pick up this for 200 and pay extra each month, OR, get an Evo for 450 and pay less than at&t lol. (Also, I have to consider wireless tethering on Sprint, which is something I use constantly.)

Oh well thanks for teaching me that! Didn't know all the details!

You interested in a job opening in Vision Science for University students?...

hehe

.

I've found that surfing these AI threads is much more enjoyable since I installed Click2Chronster!

.

My exact thoughts... I'm a mac lifer...but tired of waiting for apple to get their sh__t together and spread the joy! Android here I come. By the time my new contract is up, there will be a better iphone and a faster verizon network with all the bugs worked out of it anyway.
Cheers

He did say that they kept the pixel size of the camera sensor the same and added a backlighting feature to help add more photons to the higher pixel density. These are the little things necessary with increased pixel density to actually take a better image.

Other phone manufacturers increase megapixels by shrinking pixels.

yeah - get the receptor thingy BUT how does the visual center process all that data? We are talking perceptivity here not receptivity, processing not physical capacity. Again, don't get distracted by the label - consider the function - unless you are in fact a hopeless pedant. Go back to what the actuall Apple website says about the display and actually watch what Steve Jobs says about it - not the translated, transformed, transliterated abomination that passes for the article here.

Of course the fool in the audience that mocked him with that comment made himself look like an ass considering they were having problems with the Wi-Fi network. Their technical issue had nothing to do with any cellular network.

Android has a 64GB phone?

The accelerometer gives you XYZ position knowledge. The Gyroscope gives you orientation knowledge (think pitch yaw and roll)

Yeah, thanks, Dick.

You certainly didn't understand what Jobs was saying. nd what you are saying isn't entirely correct.

I've been in the photo industry since 1969, and have degrees in biology, as I assume you do, and 300 dpi, ppi, spi, etc., are standards for good reasons. Our visual acuity is limited. Under VERY special circumstances we can see lines, and dots that are finer than we can normally see. But that's under circumstances that are unusual. Under conditions of extreme contrast, we can see details we otherwise can't see. Those conditions don't normally exist for us when reading newspapers, magazines, and books. You might remember that he mentions, specifically, printed matter as the standard there.

The lower the contrast, the lower our ability to discriminate detail. This is pretty well known and understood.

You are also making a major error in talking about the density of the retina. The retina is small. There's no point in saying that there are millions of rods and cones per inch. Do you know the size of the retina?

In addition to that small retina size is the fact that the iPhone screen is vastly larger than that retina. Can you figure out how many retinas would be needed to cover the iPhone screen? The point is that the retina has just so many sensing cells, and the iPhone screen has just so many pixels. Talking about the number of cells per inch is a useless statement because that small "sensor" is looking at a much larger screen.

In addition to that is the other fact that we aren't using more than a small part of out retina to image the iPhone screen, so we are just using a fraction of the cells in it. And, in addition to that, is the other fact that while the screen has the same sensitivity from edge to edge, our eye has very poor vision outside a fairly small area in the middle.

The situation isn't as clear as you make it out to be.

I can continue with this, but enough is enough.

I agree with this, but I think the rest of your comments are pretty much just a rationalization away of your disappointment that Apple produced something that is far ahead of everyone else.

But, as I commented on a thread yesterday, the competition with Android just gets in the way of real innovation. Being locked in an arms race means you have to refine, refine, refine, and don't have the time to devote to doing something totally innovative and revolutionary -- i.e., reinventing again what the smartphone is. That being said, it's an incredible refinement.

No, and 32GB micro sd cards JUST came out and are stupid expensive.

I don't know what this dude is talking about.

Another thing to consider is with a 960 by 640 pixel display, the entire screen has 614,400 pixels each with the ability to display only one of the 16 million rgb values. Since human vision does not use rgb it is difficult to compare it to a digital display. The mind interprets colors outside of the rgb color gamut. So in the regard to comparing the iPhone's display to human vision, aside from the resolution issue, the iPhone is also inferior, and to a measurable degree inaccurate, in its color representation.

Ditto here... If the screen were any larger it would become awkward when talking on it as a standalone handset, especially for those people out there with smaller paws. I'll even go so far as to second the iPad part.

The iPad is a great device, and if you really want more screen it's awesome. I don't travel a lot, but we recently took a cruise and being able to watch a movie on the flight without have to fire up a laptop was pretty sweet. Not having to take it out of my backout to get thru airport security was nice too. The iPad to me is now an almost essential travel companion.

Yeah I understand that!

But for a 199$ phone, it's pretty darn close enough for me!

When I read your comment I had to truly ask myself, "is that really the case?" and I honestly from the bottom of my heart don't think it is.

I respect what I see here, and it's definitely a device I'm considering over the Evo, but I don't get sold on a lot of the buzz words Apple uses, and the only thing I'll rationalize is if I'm buying a device based on the fact that I want it, or if I'm being suckered by hype.

Yeah it is like the 256k and lossless audio argument. I can't tell the difference there either.

That's not entirely true.

There are numerous kinds of printing. When printing text, lines per inch are often not relevant. That's because halftones aren't always used to print text.

150 lpi is often used for medium quality magazine printing. Higher quality magazines are printed at 175. High quality books (illustrations, photos, ect.) can be printed from 175 to over 200.

Waterless printing metods are often 300 lpi or even as high as 400.

Photos these days can have effective lpi's of up to 600.

Text is usually printed at 900 to 1200 lpi equivalents.

You are taking some of the lowest quality print, and thinking it's standard, when it is not.

I come back to that in my mind too. I can consider it to be not as grand as the salesmen at Apple would have us believe, but my God, for $200 it's a great buy.

Whoooo
I'm sold and set for preorder!! My brand new warranty replaced 3gs will became a nice paper weight! Unless I sell it to tommorow for 400

It's magical!

No one makes a 64GB phone. You actually going to spend $300 on a 32GB micro SD card?

Battery technology is such a different beast compared to silicon technology. The automotive industry has been tackling that issue as well for decades for their electric vehicles. Isn't Apple using their own internally-developed battery specs?

I think it's just plain harder to develop a kind of battery material to be consistent and usable in the long term. I mean, this is electro-chemical stuff here. Mad-scientist realms that I think soon enough, some guy will accidentally mix some unknown materials and revolutionize the battery industry. Until then, it's simply a trial-by-error with some occasional refinements along the way.

No doubt the Apple goon squad dragged him to the dungeon under the Infinite Loop campus and are beating him to a bloody pulp as we speak.

What part of the announcement do you feel was hype.

In reviews Sprints 4G was only found to be marginally faster than AT&T's 3G but a significantly larger drain on the battery. I would call that being suckered by hype.

Approx. 1' arc. 300 ppi is approx. correct for that distance.

Just an example Mel. If you are printing at 200 lpi then your digital photos should be 400 dpi to double the res of your output. Process or spot color line work has no screen whatsoever and in the that case the printing resolution is around 2400 dpi which is the maximum resolution of the photographic emulsion of the plate or film.

...so, what you're saying is: Apple's exclusive AT&T deal means people no longer have to be respectful? Really? That's really a sad statement.

Again, that's what's wrong with our society these days. I wonder if it's an American thing, or if it's everywhere...

I agree that the exclusive AT&T deal sucks. God, that's the only thing that has held me back from buying an iPhone so far (though I'll probably just cope with AT&T because I really want this new iPhone).

And so what? I had a suspicion that it had an internal function but I did not feel the need to inflate my ego (like certain posters) and advertise my thoughts to the world and say "I told you so". You need that kind of lift with your posts, go right ahead.

I think a lot of people thought it served a functional purpose. It was for me a quiet validation that Apple keeps to a design spec.

Sheesh... get over it.

But, in this argument about ppi and eye resolution, we have to remember that each pixel is comprised of Red, Green, and Blue spots. Those spots are much smaller than the entire grey pixel they comprise. This is not understood by some posters here. So if there is one red pixel in a field for black it will be smaller than one pixel of light grey (or white), in that field of black.