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Apple unveils redesigned, thinner iPhone 4 with two cameras - Page 6

post #201 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

That 2GB limit is typically a limit of the underlying file system. That won't be an issue on an iPhone.

I know, I'm talking about the Flip cameras and point and shoot cameras that also do video.
post #202 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

The haters are steaming mad today.

It's gonna be fun for the next few days/weeks. They will predict it to fail, like they did the iPad and the MBA, then won't have anything to say when sales go through the roof.

 

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post #203 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I wanna know how much RAM it has. With the larger display, I don't want the iPhone 4 having page caching issues in Safari like the iPad with only 256MB RAM.

The RAM is intrinsic in the A4 processor, so it will have the same 256MB as the iPad.
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post #204 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post

>> I think they REALLY need a portable storage system that connects to the dock port or something. Here's the real kicker -- how many MINUTES of HD video are you really going to edit with a max of 32G? Maybe 15?

Storage space is as important to video editing as a good antenna and battery life are to a phone. So I'd even go with a thicker phone myself, if it went up to 128G. Everything else about these seems to be a great balance of performance vs. usability - but yes, the storage size is really a problem when you consider the new HD features and video editing.

I think this is where 'cloud' storage will come into play.
post #205 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, the 4th axis is time, and the other two take you off into alternate realities...

This is how the RDF is generated. Now you know.

6 axis are X, Y, Z and rotation around X, Y and Z. This is the same nomenclature as Sony uses for PS3 and Nintendo for the Wii.
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post #206 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

That 2GB limit is typically a limit of the underlying file system. That won't be an issue on an iPhone.

The 2 Gig limit is not going to be an issue. They MIGHT break files up to under 2 gigs -- but a Quicktime is able to stitch together multiple clips -- so you would probably have a folder that LOOKS like on video in that case -- but not likely.

Apple got that issue licked years ago.
post #207 of 508
What, no f'ing Blu-Ray? Then I'm not buying...

post #208 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post

I teach vision science in a major California, university, the claims about this display are patently false.

First, I'll overlook the claim about what the human retina can display, that's just wrong. The retina doesn't display anything, it's not a projector. Rather, it is an information gather device that has light projected on to it. It's nothing like a display at all. And, even if SJ meant display as in a projection screen, which is only partially correct, it doesn't change facts about the acuity of human visual perception.

The human retina is actually capable of picking up details finer than the width of a human photoreceptor itself. This is sometimes measured with what's called vernier acuity, the ability to detect if two lines are offset from one another.

Further, there are literally BILLIONS of receptors in the retina, with MILLIONS in a linear inch. There is no way a display of 326 ppi is higher resolution than the millions of receptors in a linear inch in the retina.

I'm very saddened to see this misrepresentation of the capabilities of the display in the new iPhone. It will only give the trolls food.

That's just marketing. It wouldn't sound as impressive if he said we bumped up the resolution so that it's now 326 ppi. So he came up with a name. Apple just invented the "Retina Display".
post #209 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

What I'm surprised at is that they don't have a private WiFi station there just for the demos.

They DO, but the spectrum was so crowded nobody could get good signals. The WiFi standards weren't intended to deal with so many base stations. That many clients works (after a fashion), but it falls down with that many base stations.
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post #210 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Programmer View Post

6 axis are X, Y, Z and rotation around X, Y and Z. This is the same nomenclature as Sony uses for PS3 and Nintendo for the Wii.

I'm sure that ALL marketing-speak is consistently going to use XYZ axis and XYZ rotation as 6-degrees of motion.

Now, engineers might want a gyro for every direction,.. but this thing should be pretty accurate as they've got the motion sensor, GPS, cell phone triangulation using the two antennas and a video camera to provide additional refinements.

So in practical terms -- a developer should be able to combine all that information and extrapolate something that a surveyor could use. If you were using this to direct a laser aimed at the moon - then it might be a bit of a reach.

What application is someone thinking of that the iPhone could NOT be used for with 3 gyros and everything else? You definitely could pilot the space shuttle.
post #211 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post

That does come to mind -- sure. But you'd need a super fast video compressor-decompressor and lose a lot of quality to MASTER video in 17 Gigs.

Apple's Intermediate CODEC is good for editing video. But more or less, I'd say that in REAL WORLD terms, you need about 3X the storage space of the Time of the video on a FINAL HD CODEC. When you layer graphics you've got the source, and then you've got the rendering of the layers in a much less compressed codec.

On top of that, you MIGHT be doing something more than just video editing. My 16 Gig iPod Touch is full to the brim, and that's without ANY video editing going on. So maybe I slim it down to 8 Gigs, and then add all the newer LARGER apps that will be designed for the new HD platform...

... So, by my rough estimate -- a REAL HD video will require about a Gig a Minute -- but for people doing that home movie who can't tell a compressed SD from an HD signal -- maybe they can do an hour with 18 Gigs of free space.

Not at all. Most 720 video for a 2 hour movie posted online is about 4 GB give or take, withy many using far less (1-2 GB) while retaining excellent quality. H.264 is actually quite efficient when it comes to quality at lower bitrates. I think you are FAR overestimating the space required if you think it will take a GB a minute. The iPhone already has hardware acceleration for h.264. It will have hardware encoding as well (it may already in the 3GS, although I haven't checked the specs).

I would imagine it will probably be in the area of 2500 - 5000 Kbps or so for 720P video. Standard DVD's top out at 9800 Kbps max rate (dual layer 8GB).
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post #212 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by EWTHeckman View Post

I think it's interesting that AT&T is offering upgrades to anyone whose contract expires in 2010 provided they agree to another 2 years. That kind of suggests that the September rumors of a Verizon iPhone may just be true, and AT&T is taking advantage of these last few months of exclusivity to lock in as many customers as possible.

(Disclaimer: this person could easily have been blowing smoke up my a$$)

I went after lunch with my co-worker to replace her lost phone at a local T-Mobile store and the subject of the new iPhone came up. He looked at me confused and said something like "what, they made the announcement?" When pressed he said that T-Mobile would be getting the iPhone by the end of the month. When I asked him if there would be any other carriers he said "Yes, Verizon"

Don't know that I believe him, just writing what he said.
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post #213 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

That's just marketing. It wouldn't sound as impressive if he said we bumped up the resolution so that it's now 326 ppi. So he came up with a name. Apple just invented the "Retina Display".

Well, actually they do have a patent for tracking the eyes and showing you a composite in 3d of you with your background.

He might also be referring to how they enhance and reflect light,...

... but yes, likely he pulled this out of his rear because it sounds good.
post #214 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by arklab View Post

OK, I get to be the seal that jumped in the shark tank.

For me, nothing compelling. Even the wireless N is only on 2.4GHz.
Shoot, how long has Apple been putting 5GHz in even their cheapest computers?
Kinda like not putting USB 3.0 on the 17" iMac I got my wife a few months ago.
Great PC, but hardly cutting edge features.

This makes me very happy with the purchase of two 3GS iPhones this weekend (with unlimited data plans) as AT&T stores offer 30 day price guarantee - so only $99 each!

The screen is actually bigger, too. I really don't need a cell phone screen I have to enlarge with a projector to tell the improvement.

I don't need to video conference (which AT&T will never allow over their 3G anyway).
Isn't that what the Macbooks are for?
Not bad to have, but no big deal ether.

And I wonder if the iMovie app won't work with the 3GS when upgraded to iOS 4?

Any way, for me just not that much more.

OK, now to rip me a new one!
Thanks for reading

You'll be singing a different tune when you upgrade to iOS 4 and your phone slows down, while the rest of us are taking pictures with a flash, video, and enjoying the hot new glass case. Video chat will be a lot of fun for people with far off families. With as much as we spend on the service, saving $100 on the phone is very hard to justify. You save $100 and in return get worse experience every single day - would it be worth 30 cents per day over the course of a year? I have a hard time seeing how it wouldn't be.
post #215 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

... like the iPad is so 'pocketable'

It appears the the sole reason for maintaining the small screen (by today's smartphone standards) was simply to maintain the display's aspect ratio, which has been achieved, even if it does make the phone look a bit dated.

You don't think that the concept of a phone that is "too large" vs one that is an appropriate but large size qualifies at least as a possible reason? Surely you don't really think the SOLE reason is the ratio?
post #216 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by calguy View Post

Hard to believe but I don't have an iPhone yet, BUT I am on Verizon -

Can you buy the iOS 4 phone and not hook up with AT&T and then only use it on WiFi?
I know they would add mucho $ to the price. I like all the new features-5MP cam, HD video, etc. But, I don't need AT&T since my reception is bad anyway at my home.

Is this possible?

Sure, eBay. Is it really worth $600 to you?
post #217 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

I mean really, is everyone really so truly saddened by this stuff?

The professor you're replying to is truly saddened at SJ's comments, as if somehow the impending pop-culture explosion of his vision science field is thrown off track by the speech. And you are "honestly" saddened by this comments? Cmon people

The comments are incorrect. That's sad, wouldn't you say? From someone who supposedly understands these issues to make statements that he should know are misleading, at best, is sad to me.
post #218 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by svnipp View Post

To me, your last statement here is one of the understated advantages of the iPhone product line. Personally, when I do upgrade my iPhone 3GS I'll then feel pretty good about handing it down to my 4 year old to have as his one iPod Touch. I have a couple games on it now that he really loves, and then I wouldn't have to worry about him breaking it quite so much.

How about the better reason - buy the new iPhone for $199 and sell the old one for $300!
post #219 of 508
Curious how the iPhone now has a far superior display to the iPad. Why wasn't the iPad granted a 'retina' display?

Also why no 64gb option? The iPod Touch has had that for ages now. 32gb seems awfully small these days.
post #220 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Programmer View Post

The RAM is intrinsic in the A4 processor, so it will have the same 256MB as the iPad.

But it's a separate module in the package. It could be replaced.
post #221 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

So yes, it may be rude to have an outcry during a Keynote. But after three, going on four years of AT&T exclusivity, maybe it was time for someone to speak out.

Seriously. Give me a break - you honestly think ANYONE at Apple HQ heard that and said "gee you know what, some people really are unhappy with ATT". Cmon!
post #222 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Curious how the iPhone now has a far superior display to the iPad. Why wasn't the iPad granted a 'retina' display?

Also why no 64gb option? The iPod Touch has had that for ages now. 32gb seems awfully small these days.

I suspect it's for the bigger battery. It takes up the bulk of space in the phone. It was also one of the bigger complaints from previous models.
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post #223 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Programmer View Post

They DO, but the spectrum was so crowded nobody could get good signals. The WiFi standards weren't intended to deal with so many base stations. That many clients works (after a fashion), but it falls down with that many base stations.

It would seem as thought they would just pick the channels they wanted to use, and lock them from other use. That should solve the problem.
post #224 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Another thing to consider is with a 960 by 640 pixel display, the entire screen has 614,400 pixels each with the ability to display only one of the 16 million rgb values. Since human vision does not use rgb it is difficult to compare it to a digital display. The mind interprets colors outside of the rgb color gamut. So in the regard to comparing the iPhone's display to human vision, aside from the resolution issue, the iPhone is also inferior, and to a measurable degree inaccurate, in its color representation.

No offence but this sounds like "hooey" to me (... the mind interprets colours outside of the rgb colour gamut ...).

It's a fact that the average human eye can detect something quite a bit *less* than 16 million distinct colour values. You are right that it's impossible to accurately compare the eye to a camera or a display, but wrong to imply that the eye is the superlative of the two.

Eyes, (human eyes), don't actually discern that well at all and a display that can accurately portray 16 million+ colours with no pixillation is about as good as you will get.
post #225 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

I mean really, is everyone really so truly saddened by this stuff?

The professor you're replying to is truly saddened at SJ's comments, as if somehow the impending pop-culture explosion of his vision science field is thrown off track by the speech. And you are "honestly" saddened by this comments? Cmon people

I've been positively weeping though most of this thread. Oh, the anguish! The despair!
post #226 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post

I'm sure that ALL marketing-speak is consistently going to use XYZ axis and XYZ rotation as 6-degrees of motion.

Now, engineers might want a gyro for every direction,.. but this thing should be pretty accurate as they've got the motion sensor, GPS, cell phone triangulation using the two antennas and a video camera to provide additional refinements.

So in practical terms -- a developer should be able to combine all that information and extrapolate something that a surveyor could use. If you were using this to direct a laser aimed at the moon - then it might be a bit of a reach.

What application is someone thinking of that the iPhone could NOT be used for with 3 gyros and everything else? You definitely could pilot the space shuttle.

Well, if William Shatner says it, it MUST be true.
post #227 of 508
Is it really all about the features? Are there others to consider?

CGC

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

When I read your comment I had to truly ask myself, "is that really the case?" and I honestly from the bottom of my heart don't think it is.

I respect what I see here, and it's definitely a device I'm considering over the Evo, but I don't get sold on a lot of the buzz words Apple uses, and the only thing I'll rationalize is if I'm buying a device based on the fact that I want it, or if I'm being suckered by hype.
post #228 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

If it were even the slightest bit larger than the current 3GS, I wouldn't be able to fit it in the same jeans pocket as my wallet, which would force me to either a) come up with an entirely new pocket strategy or wardrobe, or b) start carrying a man bag.

Maybe some less nut-hugging jeans? I know the rest of us guys would be thankful
post #229 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

1) Only in apps, as that is what iAd is specifically targeted for. To allow app designers an easier way to incorporate ads in their apps

2) Depends on the app designer

3) Depends on the app designer

4) Depends on the app designer

5) Depends on the app designer

I think you get the point. If a designer goes crazy with Ads, their app will bomb, and they will go nowhere. These things have a tendency to take care of themselves. Chances are the ads will be unobtrusive IF your app of choice decides to use them. They can't afford something that drives users away.

Well, I tend to agree with your reasoning. Hope you're right about how this will develop. There is of course room for possible "trouble" when taking into account your answers for the questions from 2) to 5). But again: Hope the ads will not be obtrusive and that also this will find its proper and user friendly solutions, in line with what you wrote: "These things have a tendency to take care of themselves."
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post #230 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Maybe some less nut-hugging jeans? I know the rest of us guys would be thankful

The pockets are the same size in the relaxed and heroin thin cuts.
post #231 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Not at all. Most 720 video for a 2 hour movie posted online is about 4 GB give or take, withy many using far less (1-2 GB) while retaining excellent quality. H.264 is actually quite efficient when it comes to quality at lower bitrates. I think you are FAR overestimating the space required if you think it will take a GB a minute. The iPhone already has hardware acceleration for h.264. It will have hardware encoding as well (it may already in the 3GS, although I haven't checked the specs).

I would imagine it will probably be in the area of 2500 - 5000 Kbps or so for 720P video. Standard DVD's top out at 9800 Kbps max rate (dual layer 8GB).

The quality you are talking about is fine for SD. Why are we even bothering to talk about HD video if you've compressed it in h.264 and your computation for space means one video file -- you've destroyed the source, the rendering and the final? You also need empty space to swap out files and memory. The 2 hour -online video is not even the quality of what you would see on a normal NTSC video stream.

There certainly is a lot of fudge room depending on codecs and if Apple has the ability to encode and edit in h.264 because of a chip on the iPhone -- I'd like that dang chip on my Final Cut Pro editing suite -- not because I'd every author in h.264, but just because I'd like to watch some TV while I'm editing.

Most Standard DVDs utilize hours of high quality compression. H.264 codec is a bit more efficient than MPEG of MPEG2, but its also more complex.


I think the STANDARD of Hi-resolution video editing, where people are trained on You-Tube quality, will work on the mass market... because they don't know any better. But it's not really HD quality editing on a 32G device for an 1 hour.

I expect this is more along the lines of a Novelty -- like those 12 Megapixel cameras with horrible optics and sensors. People will be making 2 and 5 minute masterpieces of their kids playing with a hose and chasing the cat and maybe superimpose a bouncing head of the dog.

I think there are a lot of video editors who might like it for quick "dailies" or whatnot. It's fine for playing back and tweaking compressed videos. But I'm not going to be able to use it as a real video camera on HD and then Edit my family video -- because I'm going to have at least 2 or 3 hours of the family on vacation. Plus, I think we'd all go slowly insane not having a 24" monitor and 50 or more tiny icons of the edit points.

The hype makes it sound like a serious HD experience and there is no way for a number of reasons, that it will provide that.
post #232 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Curious how the iPhone now has a far superior display to the iPad. Why wasn't the iPad granted a 'retina' display?

Also why no 64gb option? The iPod Touch has had that for ages now. 32gb seems awfully small these days.

My iPad screen is approx. 6" x 7.75". That would be a screen with 1,950 x 2,525. Which would be about a 4,927,000 MP screen.

How much would you be willing to pay for such a screen, even if it exists?

The phone is always a generation behind the iPod Touch in memory capacity. It has to do with room and cost. The phone costs far more to produce, and there's less room inside. They can only put half of the Flash packages inside.
post #233 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Well, if William Shatner says it, it MUST be true.

Well, if you REALLY want my opinion: I would never use merely 3 Gyros for teleportation -- mainly because 32 Gigs of RAM are not enough data buffer for moving a Pimple across the room, much less losing Scotty and coming back years later to re-materialize him.

You've got to think ahead when you are a star ship captain.
post #234 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooch View Post

did they say anywhere what the 4 countries are that are getting it June 24?

Bosnia-Hertzegovina, Andorra, Fiume, and Tajikistan

.
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post #235 of 508
This thing is awesome. I will be ordering my first iPhone on June 15th. I am currently rocking and rolling on the 27" iMac and will undoubtedly add an iPad to the mix when the next gen comes out. Apple has turned my wife into a techo-geek and if you knew her, you'd be impressed with that accomplishment.
post #236 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Seriously. Give me a break - you honestly think ANYONE at Apple HQ heard that and said "gee you know what, some people really are unhappy with ATT". Cmon!

It's probably true - since these people who are screaming "Burn the Verizon Witches!" are obviously the only ones shocked.

I'm thinking that there must be a "campus" where they don't let these people out at night, and they are SHOCKED -- SHOCKED! That anyone would make a joke about moving a phone onto more than one carrier.

This probably resulted in Apple losing 32 sales -- that's the number of people chained to the programming station right now.
post #237 of 508
I am liking this refresh. I wouldn't call it revolutionary. To me that was the first iPhone. But it's one hell of an evolutionary update. It's certainly a bigger leap than 3G to 3GS.

Most of the features to me are evolutionary. But I think the screen, the camera's video features and the gyroscope deserve some special mention. That's about the only hardware on this that I think really stands out.

I am bit skeptcial about the video calling. I've had it on several phones now. Never used it. Why? Because nobody else I knew had the feature. It'll largely be iPhone 4 to iPhone 4. But hopefully, Apple can help popularize the feature. And it'll be great for skype video chats. I am curious why they kept it wifi only though. That really, really limits usefulness of the feature.

On the software side, I find video editing to be huge. This might well take photo/video editing mainstream.

All in all, a good job.
post #238 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by arlomedia View Post

Unfortunately, the maximum storage staying at 32GB throws a wrench in my plans. I held off buying an iPod touch for several release cycles until its storage finally went up to 64GB. Now I don't want to do the same thing with the iPhone. But I also don't want to carry both an iPhone and an iPod touch around with me. Plus, I figured I could get a good price for the iPod to help pay for the new phone!

Argh...

You must go on LOOONG vacations to need that much storage. How much of a sacrifice is it to only have 5000 songs? Listen to the sounds of your destination instead of "Humpty Dance" for god's sake!
post #239 of 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

I'm still on page 2 so someone else may have answered this, but the 6 axis bit refers to up, down, left, right, forward, back I believe. Sixaxis was also the name of the PS3 controller.



Shouldn't "sitting right here not going anywhere" also be a 7th dimension then?
post #240 of 508
If you look closely in the photos shown by Jobs during the Keynote, vs. those on Apple.com in the iPhone 4 gallery, at the screws between speaker/mic and 30-pin connector port, we see standard Philips screws in the keynote, vs. 5-point screws on the website. What gives?
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