Apple unveils redesigned, thinner iPhone 4 with two cameras - Page 11

That's an interesting point when you look at the backlit sensor. It is much more sensitive in low light environments, and it appears to have a better signal to noise ratio. I wonder if the flash is variable, or just a full on/full off sort of situation? it would be ideal if the phone could sample ambient light and regulate the brightness of the flash.

Not to jump in the middle of this, as I know very little about biological optics, but an Eagle's eyes are actually about the same size as a humans. It's also 'higher definition' in it's shape (larger than a human eye in the back where the image data is collected), and it has a much higher concentration of rods and cones (200,000 per mm in a human compared to 1 million per mm in an eagle).

Interesting link: http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/eagle/VisionA.html

It actually touches on the very subject you two are debating...

I suppose you could call me an Apple faithful, but I disagree with your premise here. The true evaluation of the new phone will have to wait for more thorough reviews. How much, if any, does the new antenna setup benefit call quality? Just how good is the new camera and display? The 3GS was significantly faster than the 3G. How much of a speed increase does the iPhone 4 offer over the existing 3GS?

If all of the questions I present above achieve really high marks from the end users, then I would say this update is well beyond just "good enough". If however the result is not significant, then I would have to agree that this is merely a "good enough" hardware update to keep the faithful happy. One thing to bear in mind about the faithful, and not the fanboys, is that with a 2 year contract I think the bulk of the upgraders are going to be 3G owners or older and they are going to be seeing a huge improvement over their current phone.

It's not the matter of buying an SD card at that capacity as those have been available for about 6 months in the Micro SD format. Finding a phone that also supports those capacities is a bit of a challenge as well since Android only supports up to 32 GB. I'm not aware of any that support 64 GB yet.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/...leID=222300836

That also doesn't address the issue still plaguing the Android line with it's 256 MB limit on app storage.

Holy crap I should check this thread more often. I feel like I'm the only one talking

I think the iPhone 4 offers some real and immediately obvious benefits over the current hardware that people will take notice of, assuming they use existing iPhone hardware.

- The external antenna should increase the signal strength over the older designs that had a small port in the cover to get the signal through.

- The higher pixel density should be more pleasing for text.

- The new glass (assuming it's different for #4) should be an improvement in durability over the older models.

- Wireless-N - Nuff said

- Camera Flash, higher quality sensor and 5 MP at that

- Multi-tasking - Meh for me, but I will find some limited use for it when I get an SMS and can just jump back to what I was doing.

- I don't know about anyone else, but I'm VERY happy about the separate buttons on the side for volume. I hated the old rocker switch.

I don't think that word means what you think it does.

Facetime? You mean Skype. Hi def screens? All over the place. Just because Apple gives them a name does not make them new or theirs. Locked down like a prison ? Check. Requiring iTunes just to wipe you *ss? Check. Even more proprietary and locked down with a micro SIM? Check. iBooks utterly useless on a 3.5" screen? Check. iAds annoying your head with every click? Check.

Real Multitasking (a la Palm Pre or Maemo?) instead of a glorified freeze state? Most definitely not check. Option of a qwerty keyboard? Most definitely not check. Able to make video calls when on a train/holiday/not in an urban area with wi-fi? Most definitely not check.


You should all say baaa and just start queuing now. Absolute sheep.

Post by clueless troll? Check!

326 dpi. Can I say, O M F G!!

I think many doubters will want one once they experience the screen alone. I remember when laser printers got 300dpi. There's really a magical limit somewhere around there. I remember that printing in 150dpi felt pixelated. Somewhere around 200-300 the text just suddenly "pops" and looks like proper printed text.

(I'm very sorry to hear visual science teachers feel, that saying that the eye can distinguish details of a maximum resolution of roughly 300dpi at a distance of 10-12 inches doesn't make sense. I wouldn't want to be in your class.)

I have a question. I use a Panny AVCHD HDC-SD1 with several 8GB SD cards (enough for 3 grandkids, Saturday, soccer games. (I have enough 8GB cards, so have not bothered buying higher capacity 16 or 32 GB ones).

With the iPad, using the Camera Connection Kit, I can plug in an SD Card and suck in the still images with the Photos app (It does not, yet, recognize the AVCHD video format).

Then, I have the option, in the Photos app to delete the imported still images. iT works.

From this I infer that an iPad app can write to an SD card through the CCK.

The question: Does this mean that the iPad hardware and software has the capability to write data (with an implied file system) to any SD card? For any Purpose?

If so, I see some great potential for use of SD cards as intermediate (sneaker net) storage among cameras, iPhones, iPads and iPod Touches,

The CCK does not currently work with the iPhone 3GS running 4.0 Beta 4-- but I expect the iPhone 4.0 will have similar capability to the iPad...


...There are a couple of questions in there, somewhere!


TIA

Dick

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I watched the keynote and am quite impressed.

Especially with the display, camera system and video editing. Multi-Tasking will allow quick application switching, intelligent push notifications, and long task completion... that's more than enough for most consumers. Nothing will ever be enough for the AATTs (Anti-Apple Techie Trolls).

I expect that the multi-touch video editing, while handy on the iPhone 4, will really come into its own with the additional real-estate on the iPad display. I often use iMovie on the iMac to do quick and dirty video highlights of the grandkids soccer games-- as opposed to using FCS.

With a usable video editing app on the iPad, I (or one of the grandkids) will be able to do on-the-spot editing while at the events.

That capability is very important to me!

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Hyperbolic much? Check. Abrasive much? Check.

Don't be such a whiny little troll.

Ads have been in the free iPhone programs (and other phone platform apps) all along, and all the iAds shown so far are better than anything I've seen from AdMob. Now Apple's in the business, people have to redouble the whining about it. BTW: none of the programs I currently use have any ads in them. So far, it's mostly the free apps that have ads, very few paid apps have ads, if you don't want ads, you can buy the paid program. I don't think iAd will necessarily change that dynamic.

While I think Apple's "Retina Display" trademark is lame, Apple now has the highest density screen and apparently that's not good enough to promote, particularly from the crowd that used to say Apple's resolution wasn't enough before.

Show me a phone with equal or higher resolution. These are lower PPI, lower number of pixels:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._pixel_density
Even the brand-new Evo (which seems pretty cool) has fewer pixels than iPhone 4.

MicroSIM isn't proprietary. Besides, people have been showing you can use a pair of scissors and a women's fingernail file to convert a regular SIM into a MicroSIM. The kind of people that you'd think would be into DIY seem to be unhappy.

If you're going so far to say books on a 3.5" screen, I think you'll have to say that web pages on a 3.5" screen are useless too. I know someone that was reading eBooks on a 2.5" Palm device over 5 years ago. It looked pretty good, now it will look much better. You can change the text size and the text reflows.

Facetime is a lame name, but it isn't Skype, besides Skype is proprietary. So much for being against proprietary.

On the keyboard, I've watched people use physical keyboards on phones. Typing on a phone is a much worse thing than reading on a phone as far as I'm concerned, and it looks worse watching people use them. Frankly, they're awkward, with incredibly tiny buttons, I don't understand why geeks want to use them. It's not like a full-size keyboard where you can touch-type, thumb-typing on a Blackberry just isn't a good experience. But if you want one, have at it.

Anyway, just to inform the troll, any standard bluetooth QWERTY or other keyboard can be used with the iPhone 4. Check.

I'm super excited for this device, however, i'm really hoping they have fixed a few nagging issues i've had with my 3G phone.

1. integrate the multi-touch technology gestures with the MBP. I love the 3-finger gestures for "previous" and "next" pages in the brower of the MBP. I just hope they put this into the iOS4 as well.

2. folders icon. I really hope they allow you to adjust the icon for the new "Folders" feature. If you go to the apple site and look at folders screen shots, you see an entire page full of folders, all with the same looking preview icons. That can be very confusing. Sure you can name them whatever you want, but at a quick glance, you'd have to remember that your "Utilities" app is on the 3rd row, second position, not your "Travel" app that's right next to it. That's just an example of course.

3. iChat/GoogleTalk/MSN Messanger integrated into "FaceTime". I hope by lauch they allow this feature to happen. Just seems silly that you can ONLY use "FaceTime" if the recipient is on an iPhone. THis might not happen now, but i'm guessing it might make a future iOS update.

That's my wishlist, hopefully they will address some of these.

I would think if the import app does let you delete images after import that it can at least handle basic read/write functions, BUT, Apple may use private API's for that. I haven't messed with an iPad, so I wouldn't be of much help. You might try posting in the developer forums to see if anyone familiar with the API's can confirm if it's a public API, or a private one that's 'Apple Only'.

Given that someone leaked a much larger 'touch pad' ala Magic Mouse, you may get your wish as to more integration with multi-touch, but it's anyone's guess if that will translate over to the iPhone.

I agree on the folders. I just have to go by name, and sometimes by the number of items (the icons do show the proper number of internal apps within the folder which helps a tiny bit). Assigning an icon would help.

For the iChat/GoogleTalk/etc, I just don't see that happening unless these folks incorporate the new open standard associated with FaceTalk in their apps (very possible). That's probably the reason Apple released it as an open standard, to get buy in from 3rd party vendors.

Except that people may actually use it now.

Are you sure you are looking at micro SD?


Or maybe you don't understand the cost of flash storage.

Hmm... You have an even better point here. Sell the 3GS for $300, and that's enough to buy a new iPhone 4 for me and find an 8GB iPod Touch on eBay for the little guy.

You really think people would pay $300 for a used 3GS?

Have a look at:

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_trkparm...4&_sop=3&_sc=1

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Yeah, i must have overlooked the "open standard" clause, that's promicing for IM users, perhaps that will shrink the amount of Texting and start seenig more mobile IM'ing...

One other pet peeve i have with iBooks and Periodicals.
I don't see why NYT, Time, Newsweek (etc...) have to have thier own App? seems like it would be much more wise to include magzines and newpapers into the current iBooks App and be done with it. Heck, some of the Magazine Apps (like Dwell Magazine for example) are nothing more than PDF files formatted to an app with a table of contents and what-have-yous. Seems like a no-brainer to add it to iBooks, but perhaps there is a licensing or negotiation cut for apple if it's posted on iBooks that the periodical publishers are already trying to avoid??? It would just make more sense from an organizational stand-point IMO. Anyway i'm sure hoping they do something about this...

From my perspective the Apple argument is that the pixel structure cannot be seen using the normal 1 arc minute (0.9 or whatever) rule of thumb for visual acuity since it is over 60 pixels per degree. It doesn't make the grade for the 0.4 arc minute theoretical max based on the diameter of the foveal cone unless I did my math wrong (I got 60.23 pixels per degree at 10 inches).

Vernier acuity seems less relevant to me unless the expected use case of the phone display is discerning spatial differences between lines. Yes, yes, I can see power lines at great distances too...but I dunno that I care that it's not visible in my iPhone image of a picture. I'm of the suspicion that you can't capture that in most cameras anyway. I also don't know what any UI or image/movie playback implications might be.


This isn't my field so could you explain that a bit? 1 arc minute at 20 feet is about 1/16th of an inch if I remember right. What does 8 arc minutes at 16 feet mean?

He is. Power lines is the classic example that most folks are familiar with. The max observed human acuity is around 20/8 if I remember right and the average around 20/16. There are some sharp eyed folks out there.

Vernier acuity takes you down to around 8-10 arc seconds vs that 1 arc minute. This means a lot more in the real analog world I think than the digital one...the gigapixl camera can image to this level of detail but probably not much else...

Example from the Apple site:

http://images.apple.com/iphone/featu...5-20100607.jpg

In real life you can probably see all the power lines in that picture (all the way down that road). Even with a high end DLSR with good glass and huge 14MP sensor I bet you don't have that data in the raw imagery.

I think there was some preliminary information from Apple indicating that iOS 4 would be available for the iPhone platform at the time of the iPhone 4 release, but the iPad would not see iOS 4 until this fall sometime. No clue as to why the delay on iPad, but I'm fine with waiting a couple months on that.

Yes, they indicated that iOS 4 would be available for iPad in the Fall. So the version released on the 21st will not be for iPad. The delay is probably because, although based on common code, there are significant differences between what runs on each device.

I would pay a lot for a 4.9 million MegaPixel screen.

How good does that make you feel? You know so much and are sooo smart. We all now know that we are going to get ripped off when we sign up for an iPhone. It just feels good to get a reality check, see how stupid I am, and know how easy I am to dupe.

Have a nice day!

How do you initiate a cellphone call to someone's iPod Touch?

It's unlocked! Imagine how much YOU would pay for one if you broke or lost your iphone while still on contract. The market for old iPhones is HOT!

Edit sorry bad choice of words. It's not unlocked of course, but it's no longer subsidized and can slide right in for another ATT subscriber who needs a phone.

That's the rub. If you are going to be doing a video over WiFi, do you need audio over the cellular network? There is no reason it has to initiate a cellular call first. If you both have a device with a camera using FaceTime's "open" standards then you should be good to go.

Nope! But how about $296?

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http://www.macworld.com/article/1518...nextworth.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_freedom

3 axis (accelerations) + 3 rotations about those axis

3 Mobile (Hutchison Telecoms) actually launched video calling over 3G in 2003 in Australia.

Obviously it sucked etc etc, but wow, that's a looong time ago. And we're talking over 3G, not just via wifi...

I still think it's surprising. If people want to pay that much for a one year old used phone that's had someone else's grubby hands, facial oils, ear wax and spittle, more power to them. The surface is easy to clean, the recesses and seams might be a little hard to sanitize, even if Apple has the most seamless device out there, they are still there. The cost of a replacement unit is a concern though, I guess that should mean that I should keep my battle fatigued 3G around to tide me over should something happen to my 4.

I just figured they were "chop shopping" them for parts.

That makes sense, it would be an easier way to make money.

I was strongly considering getting an iPad to replace an old laptop that I only really use on trips for internet access. But now that iPhone 4 is out, I'm debating holding off. Looking at the Retina Display and the front facing cam with FaceTime, I am thinking I'd rather wait for next year's iPad with all that stuff.

Is there a way to use the Dock Connector to output to a monitor? The iPhone 4 can already use a bluetooth keyboard. If someone finds a way to connect it to a small screen and it becomes a real laptop replacement.

You didn't read my quote from the Apple web site which mentioned the two mics and the word "speakers"... plural.

It has since been changed though, so there is only one speaker as there always has been.

I'd like those features too... but, ttthink about it for a minute:

1) A large Retinal Display would be very expensive and require lots of RAM just to hold display pixels

2) An iPad with a front-facing cam would be OK if you had a vertical stand or KB dock, but little use otherwise (a rear-facing cam would be clumsy to use on the tablet form factor)

3) The $29 CCK (Camera Connection Kit) allows you to directly connect the iPhone and the iPad (when needed) to give sight to the iPad and storage and processing power to the iPhone.

4) You can tradeoff $ and convenience for time and interconnect the 2 devices via WiFi


Apple is very exacting about what features and capacities it puts into a device-- and even more exacting about what it leaves out. A large Retinal Display and a camera just wouldn't deliver enough utility (bang for the buck) on the iPad.

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