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Apple releases Safari 5 with extensions, expanded HTML5 support - Page 5

post #161 of 185
A few Safari 5 observations

I am glad that loading bar is the default again.

For myself, Safari 5 is not noticeably faster than Safari 4, but Safari 4 was quick anyway. Loading a page still has dependencies on the web server, and the speed of your ISP.

I really like Safari Reader because it simplifies viewing articles. I use it in conjunction with RSS in Mail, where I have many feeds. Mail provides better formatting of RSS headlines and summaries than Safari. In Mail, I can quickly scan the headlines, and then the summaries. If I want more detail, I can click on 'more', and I'll go to a specific article in Safari 5. Press ⇧⌘R and I am in the reader. The ⌘+ and ⌘- work well, and the new text size will adjust via wraparound to the window size. Overall, this is a good scheme to scan and read as if you had a newspaper in hand, while skipping over ads.

I also have a custom service in SL called 'Speak Text' that allows you to drag over text within Safari Reader to cause a synthesized voice, such as Alex, to speak that text. 'Speak Text' is just a simple 'speak text' action in Automator set up as a service for all applications that utilize text and HTML. A short-cut key makes the service easy to invoke after text has been selected in Safari Reader.

The UI of Safari Reader is very much like QT X. On the bottom of Safari Reader, you can move the mouse pointer along the bottom to cause a set of Safari Reader 5 services to appear. IMO, this UI approach is being gradually expanded, and we should expect more of it. Some people don't like it, but I find it is fine since it is only a temporary obstruction in viewing the window.

Another good aspect of WebKit rendering in Safari 5 is the sharp resolution of magnified text.

Click-To-Flash still works well in Safari 5 as far as I can tell.

Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

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post #162 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

136/160 on http://html5test.com/
• Still no MP3 or AAC codec support in the browser (obviously not Ogg Vorbis, either)

Thanks for noticing, the Safari Webkit Nightly supports all 3 (OGG too)

PS. It's better to use beta.html5test.com
post #163 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno View Post

I'd recommend to use the beta version instead. Among other things non-specified parts (like H.264 and Theora) have been moved to being optional instead of contributing to the final score.

EDIT: Oops, seems like my information is a bit outdated. The author moved the new version out of beta yesterday.

There is something wonky going on with his link. The *new* test only seems to work in Safari 5. It gets a 208/300. If you try it in Chrome 5 it defaults to the old test scoring a 142/160.

If you use the Beta subdomain Chrome 5 scores a 202/315 and Safari 5 scores 213/315.

Not that differences in total points from 160 to 300 to 315.
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post #164 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpcg View Post

Thanks for noticing, the Safari Webkit Nightly supports all 3 (OGG too)

PS. It's better to use beta.html5test.com

Interesting that they would add Ogg support. It could be an error with the test. I'll try to cross compare that or do some other hunting for a definite answer.


edit: I updated to latest WebKit nightlies and I see no test showing Ogg support.
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post #165 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There is something wonky going on with his link. The *new* test only seems to work in Safari 5. It gets a 208/300. If you try it in Chrome 5 it defaults to the old test scoring a 142/160.

If you use the Beta subdomain Chrome 5 scores a 202/315 and Safari 5 scores 213/315.

Not that differences in total points from 160 to 300 to 315.

Luckily I don't experience any of this problems. Maybe the author fixed it it the meantime. Anyway, here are my scores:

Safari 5: 208/300 (+7 bonus points)
Chrome 5.x: 197/300 (+7 bonus points)
Firefox 3.6.3: 139/300 (+4 bonus points)

As indicated I tested it with the latest release version of each browser at the time of writing.
post #166 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post

...

3) Microsofts success hinders them -- kind of like legacy code. ...

Bunk. The Microsoft of today is just a bigger, fatter version of the company formed by William Gates and company before they dropped out of Harvard University. It is a company whose founding product was based on paper tape stolen during a Dumpster Diving expedition at their employer, Digital Equipment Corporation. Innovation at Microsoft has always taken a back seat to stealing an idea that it fears might be better. Stealing got it started. Stealing helped to build it to one of the richest companies on Earth. However, stealing couldn't sustain it forever.

Microsoft is like that car that you creep-up on on the freeway. It takes forever for you to pull even with it, but it seems to take only seconds for it to disappear in your rearview mirror once you pass it. Bye-bye, Microsoft.
post #167 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

At All Things D, Steve said HTML5 was on the way in and Flash on the way out. But maybe the whole WWW is on the way out.

I mean, just look how bad web pages look (and have always looked), compared to printed books. Awful layout, awful typography, widows and orphans everywhere. Things not lined up, gawdy ads, spelling mistakes. Amateur hour.

All you are seeing is Sturgeon's Law.
post #168 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Three things:

1. Readability is not better. Try visit this Ars review. When it loads view in Readability. Then go back and try it in Safari Reader. One glaring difference you'll notice is Safari loads 'all" 18 pages of the review, Readability doesn't. Same goes for Instapaper. This is a big deal.

2. It is faster than Safari 4.

3. Get SL.

Someone isn't paying attention. I have SL. I hate SL. Went back to Leopard. Readability is more usable for me. More options. I do see the point in multi-page stories. Different strokes for different folks. Safari 4 was faster. Safari 5 is not for me. Google Chrome is now my default browser.
post #169 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post

I do see the point in multi-page stories.

You may not prefer it, but how can you not see the "point" of having an entire article load at once instead of having to click a link to get to each new page.
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post #170 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You may not prefer it, but how can you not see the "point" of having an entire article load at once instead of having to click a link to get to each new page.

I DO see the point. Didn't I say that? Guess it is safe to say, I don't do a lot of reading in the first place. Prior to Reader, I would have to go one page at a time, yes? Guess I would consider Reader in those situations. I simply don't like S5 as much as S4. Google Chrome does everything I need. Readability should work on any browser, in any OS.

Gotta go now ... Almost Bud:30.
post #171 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post

I DO see the point. Didn't I say that? Guess it is safe to say, I don't do a lot of reading in the first place. Prior to Reader, I would have to go one page at a time, yes? Guess I would consider Reader in those situations. I simply don't like S5 as much as S4. Google Chrome does everything I need. Readability should work on any browser, in any OS.

Gotta go now ... Almost Bud:30.

Mea culpa, i did read that as don't. I'm curious about your S4 v S5 speed issues, it's faster for me by a long shot and has many other features I find indispensable. Visual history and native feel are two big ones for me. For instance, try using dictionary on Chrome v. Safari.

To each their own. Personally I don't care what browser anyone uses but I'm glad that in a few short years WebKit is now the standard for browser engines and has high enough marketshare that web devs aren't ignoring it. Long gone are the days that you go to a .gov site and it says you need IE or Firefox.
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post #172 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Mea culpa, i did read that as don't. I'm curious about your S4 v S5 speed issues, it's faster for me by a long shot and has many other features I find indispensable. Visual history and native feel are two big ones for me. For instance, try using dictionary on Chrome v. Safari.

To each their own. Personally I don't care what browser anyone uses but I'm glad that in a few short years WebKit is now the standard for browser engines and has high enough marketshare that web devs aren't ignoring it. Long gone are the days that you go to a .gov site and it says you need IE or Firefox.

You would mention the Dictionary thing. I love that. I am dyslexic, so the negative versus positive words are an issue for me. So I understand the Do and Don't deal. Safari plays best with other Mac OS items, including Preview. Same goes for Dictionary and my pal Alex. No other browser works with VoiceOver or the speech commands from the Services menu.

I suppose IE plays better with other MS components. It should, or they've done it wrong. I have Comcast Internet, and speeds can be all over the place.

When I removed Snow Leopard, I had to go all the way back to 10.5.0. Safari 4, after I upgraded to 10.5.8, was twice as fast as Safari 3. Safari 5 is not performing as slow as Safari 3, but it seems to stall a lot. The blue progress bar's return makes it only too obvious. For me, Safari 5 is perhaps 1.5 times faster than Safari 3. Not sure why, it just is.
post #173 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post

I suppose IE plays better with other MS components. It should, or they've done it wrong. I have Comcast Internet, and speeds can be all over the place.

Absolutely. I also prefer IE over any other browser when using Windows for that very reason. However, I do have Chrome Frame installed so I get the benefit of fast browser engines.

A lesser known benefit of using the default browsers of each OS is the increases usage time when using the battery.
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post #174 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post

When I removed Snow Leopard, I had to go all the way back to 10.5.0. Safari 4, after I upgraded to 10.5.8, was twice as fast as Safari 3. Safari 5 is not performing as slow as Safari 3, but it seems to stall a lot. The blue progress bar's return makes it only too obvious. For me, Safari 5 is perhaps 1.5 times faster than Safari 3. Not sure why, it just is.

It could just be a bunch of background debris clogging things up.
Did you try dumping all your caches with Onyx or Cocktail?
Seriously do it. I do every week or two.
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post #175 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Vote to remove floating header & footer from AI's mobile site

How about make it possible to actually log in to the forums here with my iPad?
I keep sending emails and have yet to receive a response.
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post #176 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post

It could just be a bunch of background debris clogging things up.
Did you try dumping all your caches with Onyx or Cocktail?
Seriously do it. I do every week or two.

Thanks, but no thanks. Both programs are for Snow Leopard. As mentioned before, I refuse to use Snow Leopard. I will either wait for 10.7, letting my 10.6 DVD gather dust, or return to Windows.

EDIT: I downloaded Minefield from Mozilla, and it seems to be faster than anything else I'm currently using. For me and my bad eyes, Firefox has always done a better job than the others of presenting this website, which is next to impossible to deal with sometimes. Tiny fonts, especially while typing a reply, and weak contrast. Scores are low (176 + 9 bonus) for HTML5 test. Finally, I can use speech from the Services menu.
post #177 of 185
Apple has posted a submissions page for its Safari Extensions Gallery.

With all the extensions coming out I'm guessing it will be a crowded place.
Hoping for a best-of-the-best kind of gallery, though.
post #178 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post

Thanks, but no thanks. Both programs are for Snow Leopard. As mentioned before, I refuse to use Snow Leopard.

Try going to their web sites.
Better yet, check out the Onyx page on MacUpdate.com:

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/11582/onyx

Scroll down. There are links for versions going back to 10.2!
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post #179 of 185
I see absolutely no difference in speed between Safari 4 and 5, I see the spinning beachball just as often now as I did before upgrading.

Also, Google Analytics no longer works in Safari 5. When I try to access my account, I get the following error on the page: "This page has encountered an error that may prevent it from working correctly." Must be a Javascript problem.

Now back to using Firefox until this problem is fixed.
post #180 of 185
I have been fortunate to never have any adverse affects from updating any of my software.....until Safari 5. As soon as I installed it I noticed it was noticeably slower. It would take about 4-5 seconds just to open a window and load the home page (Google). Navigating to other sites was slower too.

I had installed 1Password a couple of weeks before upgrading to Safari 5 and never noticed any performance change. But once I upgraded to Safari 5, performance was poor. So as a test, I turned it off for Safari. Strangely, 1Password didn't cause this slow down in the previous Safari, only when I installed Safari 5. The 1Password update for Safari 5 didn't help. Only turning it off did. Now it seems to be just as fast as before Safari 5.

The only other thing I run is ClickToFlash.
post #181 of 185
I really don't understand the reader button logic. If the there are too many separate items on the page Reader doesn't display. If there is an RSS feed available Reader doesn't display. If you are in Private mode Reader doesn't display. Why didn't they just make it so Reader would work any time? Sure they want to display the relevant photos to an article but I would love to just have Reader on by default just as a crap blocker.

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post #182 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I really don't understand the reader button logic. If the there are too many separate items on the page Reader doesn't display. If there is an RSS feed available Reader doesn't display. If you are in Private mode Reader doesn't display. Why didn't they just make it so Reader would work any time? Sure they want to display the relevant photos to an article but I would love to just have Reader on by default just as a crap blocker.

I haven't noticed the issue with RSS feeds. Reader is quite intelligent compared to the other JS-based options it copies. For instance, when reading a lengthy, multipage article from Arstechnia or AnandTech it will grab all the pages from the article, not just the first one.

Perhaps they'll add the features you want later or perhaps they were exlcuded by design, but for what I use it for I find it a marked improvement over Instapaper.
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post #183 of 185
I have to hand it to MS, they are in the lead right now with some of the more complex and longterm aspects of HTML5 in IE9. Namely, the Canvas element with HW acceleration.

This link includes has a video comparing IE9 to Safari 5. IE9 wins hands down do the the lack HW acceleration. This is a big deal and I expect we'll see this after not too long in other browsers.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2...ed-canvas.aspx They also now score an 83/100 on Acid3 with a pretty decent image rendering. The Free Market eventually fixes itself.
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post #184 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I have to hand it to MS, ...

They also now score an 83/100 on Acid3 with a pretty decent image rendering. The Free Market eventually fixes itself.

Some of us are easily impressed. Safari, Chrome, Opera, OmniWeb, and iCab score 100. Firefox scores 94. Internet Explorer scores 83. Congratulations on your victory.
post #185 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

Some of us are easily impressed. Safari, Chrome, Opera, OmniWeb, and iCab score 100. Firefox scores 94. Internet Explorer scores 83. Congratulations on your victory.

Wow! You tied my first sentence of my first paragraph to my third paragraph, clearly stated as an addendum, and bypassed everything else I wrote. How can your mind even make those mental gymnastics?

You then ignored the HW acceleration of IE9 for Canvas, one of the two primary reasons this clever HTML5 element is not utilized more across the modern web and something not common to all the browsers you mention.

You also completely ignored the point of that third paragraph that shows open standards has truly won now that even IE is catching up moving from 20/100 to 83/100 from IE8 to IE9. On top of that, you've ignored the obvious and likely possibility that if I'm posting about IE gains here that perhaps (just maybe) I'm well I'm familiar with the other vendors Acid3 browser engine scores. A simple Google search of this site would would show that I've been posting about web standards here for years.
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