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AdMob CEO says Apple's iOS terms are not in best interest of consumers

post #1 of 187
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Responding to Apple's changes to the iOS developer agreement, the chief executive of AdMob said Wednesday that he believes developers will lose money and consumers will have access to fewer free and low priced applications on the iPhone.

This week it was revealed that Apple had modified section 3.3.9 of its iOS developer agreement stating that user data can only be obtained with the consent of the user, and only provided to "an independent advertising service provider whose primary business is serving mobile ads. It specifically states that advertising services that also develop or distribute mobile devices and mobile operating systems are not allowed.

That excludes AdMob, the largest mobile advertising firm on the Internet, which was recently acquired by Google for $750 million. Google is also responsible for the Android mobile operating system.

Omar Hamoui, founder and chief executive of AdMob, posted on the company's blog Wednesday in response to Apple's changes.

"This change threatens to decrease -- or even eliminate -- revenue that helps to support tens of thousands of developers," Hamoui wrote. "The terms hurt both large and small developers by severely limiting their choice of how best to make money. And because advertising funds a huge number of free and low cost apps, these terms are bad for consumers as well."

"Let's be clear," he continued. "This change is not in the best interests of users or developers. In the history of technology and innovation, it's clear that competition delivers the best outcome. Artificial barriers to competition hurt users and developers and, in the long run, stall technological progress."

Hamoui said he and others with AdMob plan to speak with Apple to express their concerns about the impact of the changes to the iOS developer agreement.

Apple's changes to its developer agreement this week aimed to tweak a revision first made in April. When iOS 4 was introduced, Apple updated the terms of its mobile operating system developer agreement, restricting outside advertising agencies from collecting information about users.

Last week at the D8 conference, Chief Executive Steve Jobs revealed the changes were made to protect user privacy, and were not meant to be anticompetitive. In an on-stage interview, he singled out Flurry Analytics, which, unbeknownst to Apple, was collecting information about devices through App Store software.

Apple's issue from Flurry came from the fact that the firm boasted in January that it had tracked a number of devices on Apple's campus running an unreleased version of iOS. Those devices turned out to be Apple's then-unannounced iPad.

On Monday, section 3.3.9 was modified again, this time to state that applications "may not collect, use, or disclose to any third party, user or device data without prior consent."
post #2 of 187
Of course what he means by that is: "Apple's new terms are not in our best interests."
post #3 of 187
Sure sounds to me like Apple keeping personal data out of the hands of Google will be good for consumers. Also sounds like it will be great for competition in mobile advertising. What's bad for Google is good for everyone else.
post #4 of 187
Wah! Wah! Wah! Somebody change my diaper!
post #5 of 187
I particularly liked this bit:

Quote:
Artificial barriers to competition hurt users and developers and, in the long run, stall technological progress.

Like AdMob represents technological progress. More like technological exploitation.
post #6 of 187
great! i don't want a phone that looks like the tokyo skyline.
post #7 of 187
Dear AdMob CEO,

Would you like some cheese with that whine? Opps, somebody beat me to it.

Anyway, it's all FUD, as in Elmer.
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post #8 of 187
ok Ill say it..

NO ads are in the best interest of the customers.
post #9 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofabutt View Post

Of course what he means by that is: "Apple's new terms are not in our best interests."

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronHeadSlim View Post

Wah! Wah! Wah! Somebody change my diaper!

Yep- That is about as well put as anyone could do!

It amazes me that these companies release these statements that show that no matter what, they always cling to what is best for them. Adobe doesn't care about "open" systems- if they did they would open source flash! Or make it free to develop for! All they care about is their pocket book.

Just like Adobe, AdMob is bitching about a potential loss of revenue, nothing more.

These cheap attempts at public appeal are a sign of the times, and fortunately Apple is steadfast in its commitment to the old style of business- actually making better products.
post #10 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofabutt View Post

Of course what he means by that is: "Apple's new terms are not in our best interests."

Agreed. If it hurts your business then just say it. It's a legitimate concern. Be a man and don't hide behind the consumer angle.
post #11 of 187
Google is starting to realize that competing with Apple isn't as easy as they thought!
post #12 of 187
"Let's be clear," he continued. "This change is not in the best interests of users or developers. In the history of technology and innovation, it's clear that competition delivers the best outcome. Artificial barriers to competition hurt users and developers and, in the long run, stall technological progress."

translation: "wahhhhhh!!"
post #13 of 187
Naturally, by excluding AdMob, marginally fewer free or low-priced apps will be available, but those apps are likely to be in a very small niche or have poor functionality. Otherwise the developers could well afford and would have the skill to use iAds or some other acceptable advertising technology.

In other words, the exclusion of AdMob should not matter at all to the vast majority of users.

Poor Google!
post #14 of 187
Competitor doesn't like competition.

Film at 11...
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post #15 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHead75 View Post

Google is starting to realize that competing with Apple isn't as easy as they thought!

No doubt a lightbulb went "Bing!" in Eric Schmidt's head when he found out about the new terms.
post #16 of 187
Quote:
Responding to Apple's changes to the iOS developer agreement, the chief executive of AdMob said Wednesday that he believes developers will lose money and consumers will have access to fewer free and low priced applications on the iPhone.

Translation: Awe, damn....
post #17 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

Yep- That is about as well put as anyone could do!

It amazes me that these companies release these statements that show that no matter what, they always cling to what is best for them. Adobe doesn't care about "open" systems- if they did they would open source flash! Or make it free to develop for! All they care about is their pocket book.

Just like Adobe, AdMob is bitching about a potential loss of revenue, nothing more.

These cheap attempts at public appeal are a sign of the times, and fortunately Apple is steadfast in its commitment to the old style of business- actually making better products.

One constant in human nature is self-interest. In many respects the tendency to look after one's own interests is a good thing. Where this becomes absurd is when a company thinks we should be looking after their self-interest, even at the expense of our own.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #18 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrnight View Post

ok Ill say it..

NO ads are in the best interest of the customers.

The sentiment is understandable, but ultimately, this is probably not true, UNLESS customers want to pay higher prices for goods because there's no money coming in to manufacturers to promote and sell their products.

It's all a dance and knowing our cue.
post #19 of 187
That part of what he said is true. Until iAd has comparative revenue--- it is more difficult for devs to release free games.
post #20 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrnight View Post

ok Ill say it..

NO ads are in the best interest of the customers.

I don't think so. How much would you like to pay for you content? Reminds me of a saying: there is no such thing as a free lunch.

So if you want free applications as a customer, you have to pay the developer in other ways. One way is to do so through allowing ads and viewing them.

I'm not a fan of ads either, but as a developer I know how difficult and time consuming it is to build software, so I know that the developers need money to make good or great apps. Soon I will be able to afford to support developers through paying them cash, as for now, I would prefer to do so through ads, as in ad supported apps.

Bottom line, no ads might be in your best interest if you are willing to pay for your apps, but this is certainly not the case for everybody.
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post #21 of 187
He seems to be completely unaware that the terms merely prevent gathering usage statistics. AdMob can operate perfectly just fine under the new agreement, putting ads into apps and developers getting paid for it. They just won't be able to take usage statistics about iPhone and give that data to Google to give them an unfair advantage in competing in the mobile OS market.
post #22 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrnight View Post

ok Ill say it..

NO ads are in the best interest of the customers.

Let me guess: you want it to be free too.
post #23 of 187
In all seriousness, I think they are literally giving the bird to the FTC antitrust division.

There can be no doubt that iOS is a computer operating system of which Apple has 100% market share. That market share is used to limit competition in Apps and Advertising to the detriment of their competitors and at the expense of consumers/advertisers who pay in the form of decreased competition reflecting less innovation and/or higher prices.

Considering they are being looked at from several angles, I am surprised they would open another front.

Particularly at a time when the compare/contrast with other platforms makes them look really bad. (AT&T just launched an Android phone tied to Yahoo)

post #24 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elian Gonzalez View Post

The sentiment is understandable, but ultimately, this is probably not true, UNLESS customers want to pay higher prices for goods because there's no money coming in to manufacturers to promote and sell their products.

It's all a dance and knowing our cue.

You beat me to it!
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post #25 of 187
doesn't admob has its own phone from google to play with? quit your (admob) pretensions and focus on your own sand box.
post #26 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by fattychance View Post

In all seriousness, I think they are literally giving the bird to the FTC antitrust division.

There can be no doubt that iOS is a computer operating system of which Apple has 100% market share. That market share is used to limit competition in Apps and Advertising to the detriment of their competitors and at the expense of consumers/advertisers who pay in the form of decreased competition reflecting less innovation and/or higher prices.

Considering they are being looked at from several angles, I am surprised they would open another front.

Particularly at a time when the compare/contrast with other platforms makes them look really bad. (AT&T just launched an Android phone tied to Yahoo)


Why? They just don't want their direct competition to gather information on how to beat them. Seems reasonable to me. Hope FTC isn't that stupid.
"Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. THAT'S relativity." - Albert Einstein
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"Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. THAT'S relativity." - Albert Einstein
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post #27 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...excludes AdMob...which was recently acquired by Google for $750 million.

The message here is: Don't f.ck with Jobs!
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post #28 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by fattychance View Post

In all seriousness, I think they are literally giving the bird to the FTC antitrust division.

There can be no doubt that iOS is a computer operating system of which Apple has 100% market share.

iOS is far from dominating the mobile market. If mbarriault is to be believed (see above), Apple isn't even blocking AdMob from iOS. AdMob is only neutered of its big brother tracking.
post #29 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elian Gonzalez View Post

The sentiment is understandable, but ultimately, this is probably not true, UNLESS customers want to pay higher prices for goods because there's no money coming in to manufacturers to promote and sell their products. ...

Nonsense! AdMob can still place ads, they just can't use their ad service to do market research on the iPhone for Android and violate user privacy. And there are plenty of other ad options for developers as well. This won't hurt consumers or developers in any way.
post #30 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by fattychance View Post

In all seriousness, I think they are literally giving the bird to the FTC antitrust division.

There can be no doubt that iOS is a computer operating system of which Apple has 100% market share. That market share is used to limit competition in Apps and Advertising to the detriment of their competitors and at the expense of consumers/advertisers who pay in the form of decreased competition reflecting less innovation and/or higher prices.

Considering they are being looked at from several angles, I am surprised they would open another front.

Particularly at a time when the compare/contrast with other platforms makes them look really bad. (AT&T just launched an Android phone tied to Yahoo)


You can't have a monopoly (100%) on your own product!!
There are plenty other OSs and phones on the market.
Does Sony have a monopoly ? It has 100% of the PS3 market....
post #31 of 187
I must have missed something - when did AdMob start caring about consumers?
post #32 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


"This change threatens to decrease -- or even eliminate -- revenue that helps to support tens of thousands of developers," Hamoui wrote. "The terms hurt both large and small developers by severely limiting their choice of how best to make money. And because advertising funds a huge number of free and low cost apps, these terms are bad for consumers as well."

This is bull ... the revenue is diverted to apple instead of google. Who is to say if Apple will pay out more or they will? There is no way to know that this early in the game.
post #33 of 187
The best news from Apple is that advertisers will need prior consent to collect any user data.

I hope Apple goes one step further and allows ad-blocking software. And I hope every app clearly states whether it has ads in it or not.
post #34 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by fattychance View Post

In all seriousness, I think they are literally giving the bird to the FTC antitrust division.

There can be no doubt that iOS is a computer operating system of which Apple has 100% market share.

This argument is wrong - remember Psystar, who made unauthorized Mac clones? They tried to argue that Apple has a monopoly on the OS X operating system - the court shot that down immediately, as OS X is only one of a number of operating systems.

That would be like arguing that Ford has a monopoly on Ford engines.
post #35 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzysatsuma View Post

That part of what he said is true. Until iAd has comparative revenue--- it is more difficult for devs to release free games.

On iPhones i think iAd has potential to pay out much more than other services. Also put yourself in apples shoes. Google is trying to destroy them with the free android operating system and lower cost mobile devices. Apple wants Googles AdMob off their "app" side of the phone because they are a direct competitor. AdMob can still sell ads through safari. This is not unreasonable. Apple is happy to let other ad services that don't compete directly against them in the game, so you still have options.
post #36 of 187
With all the Android evangelists preaching how Android will take over the world, why would AdMob even be concerned with what Apple does with their own product/ecosystem? At least until the end of June 23, I expect Android will be the most prolific OS in the world. AdMob will make so much money that they can then give the finger to Apple.

He must have ate too much cheese with his whine.
post #37 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

On iPhones i think iAd has potential to pay out much more than other services. Also put yourself in apples shoes. Google is trying to destroy them with the free android operating system and lower cost mobile devices. Apple wants Googles AdMob off their "app" side of the phone because they are a direct competitor. AdMob can still sell ads through safari. This is not unreasonable. Apple is happy to let other ad services that don't compete directly against them in the game, so you still have options.

They can still sell ads through apps, just not collect private information.
post #38 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofabutt View Post

Of course what he means by that is: "Apple's new terms are not in our best interests."

Pretty much.

Argument 1: "They're robbing developers of t3h monies!"
Only if the developers don't have an equal or better alternative to AdMob. As it stands, it seems they'll have that in iAds, so that's not true. It could be argued that they're robbing developers of choice, but developers will be happy to use the easier/more profitable option.

Argument 2: "They're robbing the users by robbing the developers of ad revenue!"
Only if the developers can't make as much from ad revenue, as was essentially the case before. If they were truly killing advertising revenue on the platform it would be taking from the customers, as it would hurt interest in free applications and would likely increase costs of paid applications. As it stands, if the developers have an equivalent advertising solution, there won't be an impact worth speaking of—and if iAds is better than current options, and it sounds like it will definitely be just that—the reverse will be true: it will help customers. But that's just market value, which isn't impacted much by ToS.

In short, the AdMob announcement would be true if AdMob would have been the best show in town.

But that doesn't seem to be the case.

A fair argument can be made of it 'just not being fair', though, but if Google's going to bring a knife to the would-be fistfight with Apple, they shouldn't whine if Apple pulls out a knife of their own in response (reference to the AdMob acquisition bid war).
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post #39 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

This is bull ... the revenue is diverted to apple instead of google. Who is to say if Apple will pay out more or they will? There is no way to know that this early in the game.

apple will pay developers more, they are going after the high profile/high revenue ads, charge both per impression and per click, and will have ads people are more likely to click on.

Apple doesn't want google tracking data about iOS devices, especially unreleased iOS devices. I don't believe they are blocking any ads that don't track user/device specific information.
post #40 of 187
Simply put, Apple doesn't want a phone competitor (or phone platform competitor) looking at usage data of the iPhone (or iOS devices).

If someone said that HTC had to allow Motorola to look at its usage data, or RIM had to allow Nokia to look at its usage data, most people would say that was nuts. So there's no reason Apple should allow Google to look at its iPhone users usage data (outside of the apps that Google provides).

It's really just too bad for AdMob that it's owned by Google now, as Google has chosen to compete against Apple in phones and phone platforms.
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