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T-Mobile, not Verizon, most likely to see iPhone first, report claims

post #1 of 66
Thread Starter 
While its inevitable that Apple will introduce a version of its iPhone handset for U.S. wireless carriers outside of AT&T, it's T-Mobile that stands as the front-runner for the gig rather than Verizon, one investment research firm said Thursday.

In a report released to clients Thursday morning, Kaufman Bros. analyst Shaw Wu cited sources as saying that additional U.S. iPhone carriers are becoming "closer than reality than ever," with some indicating that an announcement could come as early as this fall or early next year.

"While the general consensus is around Verizon (which we believe will happen eventually), we continue to believe that T-Mobile USA is the most likely candidate given its use of similar cellular technology as AT&T," he wrote. "Also, we are picking up that T-Mobile views the iPhone as key in winning back lost customers and as such could be more likely to agree to Apple's terms."

More specifically, Wu noted that T-Mobile's 3G service (UMTS/HSPA) supports 1700 MHz and 2100 MHz frequencies while AT&T supports 850 MHz and 1900 MHz frequencies. With both the new iPhone 4 and iPhone 3GS supporting 3G at the 2100 MHz frequency, the technical hurdle to support T-Mobile would be minor compared to supporting CDMA technology used by Verizon and Sprint, he said.

Another reason why the analyst believes Apple is poised to broaden availability of the iPhone in the near term is stem adoption of mobile phones based on the Android operating system developed by rival Google. Currently a relatively niche player in the market with just 9% U.S. share, Android's progress to date is believed to be the result of a lack of competitive options from Apple on networks outside of AT&T.

"Our sources also indicate that one of the key reasons why Apple is more open to adding U.S. carriers in 2011 is to attack Android more directly," Wu wrote. " Looking at industry data, Android's wins have been where iPhone isn't available and that could change dramatically if the iPhone were available on more carriers."

The Kaufman Bros. analyst reiterated his Buy rating on shares of Apple alongside a $320 price target, saying the Cupertino-based company is best positioned "to outperform in this tough macroeconomic environment with its defensible strategic and structural advantages and its vertical integration."
post #2 of 66
No duh. I've been saying that for years iPhone will come to T-Mobile first, thanks for catching up with me, Shaw Wu.

On the other hand, my AAPL stock is finally starting to grow big
post #3 of 66
T-Mobile can utilize the same iPhone hardware.

Apple will never create a CDMA version for Verizon. Verizon needs to quickly build out its 4G network.....it has to be large enough so that any iPhone can get complete national coverage. This won't happen on Verizon until 2012-2014.
post #4 of 66
Only three days after the keynote and the multiple carrier rumors are starting? If it was going to happen, it would have happened Monday. It would have happened right when the heckler shouted "Verizon."

Give it up. If you have coverage then bless you, get an iPhone and enjoy it. If you don't have coverage, jump ship and go to a carrier who does. Don't be like AI forum posters and say "I rarely use my iPhone to make calls" or "i use Skype on Wi Fi."

Don't wait until your stuck on the side of the road with your family late at night and find out you have no coverage in a place that ATT's coverage map says you do. Nothing will sober you up from the Kool Aid faster. Believe it.
post #5 of 66
A Shaw Wu prediction? Just forget it!
post #6 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

Only three days after the keynote and the multiple carrier rumors are starting? If it was going to happen, it would have happened Monday. It would have happened right when the heckler shouted "Verizon."

Give it up. If you have coverage then bless you, get an iPhone and enjoy it. If you don't have coverage, jump ship and go to a carrier who does. Don't be like AI forum posters and say "I rarely use my iPhone to make calls" or "i use Skype on Wi Fi."

Don't wait until your stuck on the side of the road with your family late at night and find out you have no coverage in a place that ATT's coverage map says you do. Nothing will sober you up from the Kool Aid faster. Believe it.

People - this is SO dependent upon location. I realize that only San Francisco and NYC can lay claim to being the heart of the universe, but lets be a little realistic once in a while. You can have that same stranded problem if you are on Verizon, Sprint, or T-Mobile from Arizona to Alabama, where straying anywhere off the interstate system leaves you with one bar or less. Where my daughter goes to school in New Haven, there are big holes around town in both AT&T and Verizon coverage.

And heaven help you if Verizon does get the iPhone before FULL LTE implementation. We will hear interminable complaints about the choking of the data network, AND since CDMA uses fewer towers with larger coverage areas, there will be fewer calls that can be handled in a given area. Every carrier has pluses and minuses, and they are controlled both by footprint and usage. Think beyond your local geography for a minute.
post #7 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... it's T-Mobile that stands as the front-runner for the gig rather than Verizon, one investment research firm ....

Actually, its Verizon.... no wait... its Sprint... no wait.... latests update... it IS Verizon.... uh oh... hang on... no, its T-mobile... not really..s its... its... just Speculation and after several years of the weekly flip flop it is still a big fat YAAAWN.
post #8 of 66
This is a no-brainer to me for Apple. They are thinking on a global scale, not just the US. Apple won't have to make a new phone, and can make it available to double the amount of US customers that it serves now. While it's impact in the US will be marginal, they can roll this out this year, and then add verizon when it transitions into 4G networks.

T-Mobile 150 million subscribers
Verizon 93 million
ATT 87 million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...work_operators
post #9 of 66
These analyst ideasespecially Sean Wu ideas, which is a shame because he's so happy about Macare hardly even worth reading. It must be nice to get paid a good wage to come up with strange ideas about companiessometimes interesting but completely unsubstantiated, sometimes painfully obviousbut never to be held to all the many failed and wildly off-base predictions. He's not even useful for investing...
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post #10 of 66
Even if we don't accept everything this point is pretty important. And they are definitely thinking about maximising reach globally... they've hinted enough about Nokia and other aspects to make it clear.

"Looking at industry data, Android's wins have been where iPhone isn't available and that could change dramatically if the iPhone were available on more carriers"


Apple haven't quite said this on earnings calls but they have said that every time they add a new carrier growth is exponential.
post #11 of 66
T-Mobile would get the iPhone before Verizon? Just because they use the same protocols as AT&T and dozens of other carriers around the world that sell the iPhone? Are you sure you want to go out on a limb with a prediction like that?
post #12 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by dksmidtx View Post

People - this is SO dependent upon location. I realize that only San Francisco and NYC can lay claim to being the heart of the universe, but lets be a little realistic once in a while. You can have that same stranded problem if you are on Verizon, Sprint, or T-Mobile from Arizona to Alabama, where straying anywhere off the interstate system leaves you with one bar or less. Where my daughter goes to school in New Haven, there are big holes around town in both AT&T and Verizon coverage.

And heaven help you if Verizon does get the iPhone before FULL LTE implementation. We will hear interminable complaints about the choking of the data network, AND since CDMA uses fewer towers with larger coverage areas, there will be fewer calls that can be handled in a given area. Every carrier has pluses and minuses, and they are controlled both by footprint and usage. Think beyond your local geography for a minute.

First of all, you can't say the problem is only in San Francisco and New York. We now know the problem is in Texas too from watching the D8 speech. And I have a feeling it's in other places too.

Second of all, if the iPhone was on multiple carriers, the burden would be eased. The only ones who can't see this simple logic are ATT stockholders who know that if the iPhone was on other carriers they would loose money. (shudder)

Third of all, no one knows what your talking about with CDMA and LTE. Apple products are for "mere mortals" who want it to "just work." That has always been Apple's position on technology. So simple to use, my 100 hear old Grandmother can use it.

Forth of all, when I was stranded, a good Samaritan stopped and let me borrow his Verizon phone to call the AAA club and guess what? It worked just fine. So Verizon has some kinda trick when it comes to making phone calls on a cell phone that ATT needs to learn.

So I will think beyond my local geography if you will think beyond your stock portfolio.
post #13 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsFan83 View Post

This is a no-brainer to me for Apple. They are thinking on a global scale, not just the US. Apple won't have to make a new phone, and can make it available to double the amount of US customers that it serves now. While it's impact in the US will be marginal, they can roll this out this year, and then add verizon when it transitions into 4G networks.

T-Mobile 150 million subscribers
Verizon 93 million
ATT 87 million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...work_operators

*facepalm*
Rudimentary math will tell you that you have made a gross error.

Look back at that wiki article. What flag is next to T-Mobile? Thats because the total subscribers is their international total. They have 33.something million subscribers in the usa and are in 4th place.
post #14 of 66
In Europe , both uplink and downlink are in the 2100 band. In North America, the uplink is in the 1700 band and the downlink is in the 2100 band, just because the 2100 frequency is supported for Europe does not mean it will work in T-Mobile as you require both bands (1700 and 2100) to support the North American flavour.
post #15 of 66
Quote:
While its inevitable...

Really? In the lead? "While it's inevitable...."
post #16 of 66
I dumped them years ago because of their lousy reception issues in and around certain parts of Los Angeles. Verizon would be the only carrier I'm interested in. T Mobile sucks and blows, or at least they used to, and I haven't heard much different so I'm wondering why Apple would want "2" lousy carriers instead of one? They're great in Europe for coverage because they are owned by Deutsche Telekom, but I wouldn't want them in the States.
post #17 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonro View Post

T-Mobile would get the iPhone before Verizon? Just because they use the same protocols as AT&T and dozens of other carriers around the world that sell the iPhone? Are you sure you want to go out on a limb with a prediction like that?

Lets give this guy SOME credit.. he likely consulted a dozen of the top technologists his firm employes as well as the star charts and finally Madam Sylva's 1-900-TECH-PREDICTIONS-R-US line.

SO he's certainly done his due diligence.
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post #18 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsFan83 View Post

This is a no-brainer to me for Apple. They are thinking on a global scale, not just the US. Apple won't have to make a new phone, and can make it available to double the amount of US customers that it serves now. While it's impact in the US will be marginal, they can roll this out this year, and then add verizon when it transitions into 4G networks.

T-Mobile 150 million subscribers
Verizon 93 million
ATT 87 million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...work_operators

You choose the wrong Wiki link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...#United_States That doesn't mean it's still not a no-brainer. T-Mobile USA with slightly over 1/3 the user base of Verizon for adding this tiny and inexpensive 1700MHz band chip to the phone compared to making an entirely new phone that supports CDMA-based networks from top to bottom.

The question isn't which is the easiest and cheapest to support, the question is why haven't they supported it yet? Apple will sometimes add HW that they don't advertise for whatever reason. I suppose it's possible the iPhone 4 has a fifth UMTS band to support 1700MHz but it's simply not listed because they are bound to AT&T until a certain date. We'll know by the 25th when iFixit does a teardown.
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post #19 of 66
Going T-Mobile would be a very good move on Apple's part, particularly if both parties would agree to show flexibility. T-Mobile coverage may come up lacking in rural areas, but it's quite good in large cities such as Seattle where I live. They also have some highly competitive rates and plans. I know people who're quite happy on T-Mobile with iPhones despite the added hassles of unauthorized unlocking.

As a half-way step, Apple could do what they should have done long ago--unlock all iPhones whose contract times have expired. AT&T has paid its fair share of those iPhone's cost and has no right to hold those iPhone owners hostage.

Apple would benefit from the move in several ways. First, it'd be a quick way to give AT&T some much-needed competition. The unlocking could be done in a few days and the resulting move of customers away from AT&T would send a powerful message. And that move would be greatest in major cities where T-Mobile's coverage is the best and AT&T's coverage is the poorest.

Second, it'd be a quick and simple way to bring people who don't want or can't afford the combo iPhone + AT&T plan into the Apple camp. They'd buy a legitimately unlocked iPhone secondhand and sign up with T-Mobile. Apple would not get money directly, but they'd gain all-important market share at the expense of Google/Android. Market share now will mean future sales as that secondhand iPhone ages.

Third, Apple would sell more of the new generation of iPhones in certain situations. Why? Because there are a lot of people who'd get a new iPhone if they knew a way to make good use of their old iPhone. Imagine parents whose teen-or-college-aged child has been hassling them to pass own their old but still cool iPhone. Those parents might hesitate if the costs of passing on includes AT&T's pricey iPhone plan. But they'd be delighted to do so if it means that old iPhone shifts to a much cheaper T-Mobile plan.

In exchange, T-Mobile should offer attractive data plans for these unlocked iPhones. Since they can't compete in data speed or nationwide coverage, they should compete with price and flexibility. There's an untapped market of people who need something more than WiFi but don't need a monthly plan that includes 200 megs of data or more. I'm in that camp. I'd be delighted to have a plan that'd let me occasionally check live bus routing data or send email on the go. For that, a $20/month data plan makes no sense, but I'd happily pay more per byte if I could be charged only for actual usage, with that cost either added to a monthly flat-rate voice bill or subtracted from a pre-pay plan. It'd be a win/win situation for both. T-Mobile would get more income; people would get a data service they actually want.

In short, the quickest and easiest thing Apple could do to enhance their competitive advantage over Google is to unlock all those out-of-contract iPhones.
post #20 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by dksmidtx View Post

People - this is so dependent upon location. I realize that only san francisco and nyc can lay claim to being the heart of the universe, but lets be a little realistic once in a while. You can have that same stranded problem if you are on verizon, sprint, or t-mobile from arizona to alabama, where straying anywhere off the interstate system leaves you with one bar or less. Where my daughter goes to school in new haven, there are big holes around town in both at&t and verizon coverage.

And heaven help you if verizon does get the iphone before full lte implementation. We will hear interminable complaints about the choking of the data network, and since cdma uses fewer towers with larger coverage areas, there will be fewer calls that can be handled in a given area. Every carrier has pluses and minuses, and they are controlled both by footprint and usage. Think beyond your local geography for a minute.

thank you!!
post #21 of 66
After AT&T contract expires in 2012.
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post #22 of 66
Engadget says "First, a factoid: America and Canada are just two of an extremely small group of nations that support CDMA."

This ever so important observation is relevant to the way Apple are thinking about which network they will add next.
post #23 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

After AT&T contract expires in 2012.

Which is probably when I'll buy my next iPhone after my 2007 iPhone on T-Mobile finally gives out after putting in 4 years of faithful service (I got it in March 2008)
post #24 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsFan83 View Post

This is a no-brainer to me for Apple. They are thinking on a global scale, not just the US. Apple won't have to make a new phone, and can make it available to double the amount of US customers that it serves now. While it's impact in the US will be marginal, they can roll this out this year, and then add verizon when it transitions into 4G networks.

T-Mobile 150 million subscribers
Verizon 93 million
ATT 87 million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...work_operators

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...#United_States

According to this article - linked from your previous web-link - T-Mobile only has 33.7M Subscribers in the USA, not 150 like you state, which is the global number.

Also, according to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_Wireless, Verizon has 104.8M subscribers.

If anyone is intersted, sprint has 48.1M subscribers, the 4th of the big 4 mobile companies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint_Nextel_Corporation

However, both are Wiki articles and the sources need to be checked.
post #25 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by tankgaj View Post

thank you!!

What are you thanking him for? You should thank Steve Jobs. In a few days Apple will sell millions of iPhone 4 handsets and ATT will sell millions of 2 year contracts. Your stocks are safe. You "win."

And the rest of us will be stuck with Verizon's awful network. So we win too.
post #26 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by benice View Post

Engadget says "First, a factoid: America and Canada are just two of an extremely small group of nations that support CDMA."

This ever so important observation is relevant to the way Apple are thinking about which network they will add next.

They may be just two countries that support CDMA, but Apple is a US company and I believe the US has more CDMA users than any other single country.
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post #27 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

They may be just two countries that support CDMA, but Apple is a US company and I believe the US has more CDMA users than any other single country.

But what they want is more users outright and as fast as possible... CDMA users in themselves aren't the goal.
post #28 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

No duh. I've been saying that for years iPhone will come to T-Mobile first, thanks for catching up with me, Shaw Wu.

I know. I knew it as a 'duh Wu' the moment I saw the headline.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #29 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

They may be just two countries that support CDMA, but Apple is a US company and I believe the US has more CDMA users than any other single country.

CDMA might be a huge network in the USA, globally GSM has them beat hands down. China alone has more subscribers than any single country:

China Mobile: 539M(illion)
China Unicom: 147M
with a total of around 747M subscribers, with only 65M subscribers on CDMA.

I'd say that beats the snot out of USA numbers. They also have a population of more than 1.3B(illion) people too, the most populous contry in the world. 55% of the country owns a cell phone. And that's just China alone!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...c_region#China

Now, India, the second most populous country (i think) has 584M(illion) subscribers on about 10 networks...ALL GSM! well, except for about 68M.

Point being, CDMA isn't that huge and was a very wise decision by Apple to support this network.
post #30 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

Forth of all, when I was stranded, a good Samaritan stopped and let me borrow his Verizon phone to call the AAA club and guess what? It worked just fine. So Verizon has some kinda trick when it comes to making phone calls on a cell phone that ATT needs to learn.

whether you can make a call depends on proximity to an applicable cell tower and the current density of use.

you were in an area with no nearby ATT tower and/or a lot of folks using it. whereas there was a Verizon tower nearby and fairly quiet at the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The question isn't which is the easiest and cheapest to support, the question is why haven't they supported it yet? Apple will sometimes add HW that they don't advertise for whatever reason. I suppose it's possible the iPhone 4 has a fifth UMTS band to support 1700MHz but it's simply not listed because they are bound to AT&T until a certain date. We'll know by the 25th when iFixit does a teardown.

It is unlikely that they have such a band because that would encourage unlocking since now it is possible to have T-Mobile 3g and not be stuck on edge if you unlock.

We won't see anything that supports T-Mobile until the contracts (which court docs proved are until 2012) are up.

And those contracts were likely for the phone not 'GSM based phones' so no Apple won't make a separate CDMA phone for the US to get around it. And likely not anywhere since the lack of a CDMA phone for the Asian Market and an CDMA ipad is a strong sign of their dislike of the tech.

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post #31 of 66
It looks like Apple is using the X-GOLD 616 - PMB 9801 in the iPhone 4. The X-GOLD 616 supports up to five HSPA bands.

These are the 3 chips used in the iPad and 3G iPhones. TriQuint Power Amps: TQM616035 (UMTS Bands V&VI = Frequency Band 850MHz & 800MHz?), TQM666032B, and TQM676031A.


PS: For comparison,the iPad 3G is using the same X-Gold 608 found in older iPhones that support 3G which means they don't support HSUPA so they only have an upload max speed of 384kbps.
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post #32 of 66
[QUOTE=charlituna;1649986]whether you can make a call depends on proximity to an applicable cell tower and the current density of use. you were in an area with no nearby ATT tower and/or a lot of folks using it. whereas there was a Verizon tower nearby and fairly quiet at the time. QUOTE=solipsism;1649893]

I don't think a lot of people were chatting on ATT's network at that time of the morning, so let's go with the lack of towers theory.

Ramsey New Jersey is where the incident occurred. And yes, there is little or no service there to this day. There wasn't any service there ten years ago either when the iPhone didn't exist. Why not? North Jersey is one of the most densely populated areas in the country. Why is ATT not interested in this region? Why is there coverage just down the road in either direction? Why is ATT coverage so spotty?

Verizon's coverage is solid throughout North Jersey. Why?

And I'm not just talking about data, 3G or edge. I'm talking about phone calls. How long has ATT been in business? Shouldn't they have phone service figured out by now? Is not ATT a descendent of American Telephone and Telegraph? A company that was around a hundred years ago?

There is no excuse. If you have good coverage and you're happy with your service, then bless you, you got lucky. Enjoy it. But please don't defend them.
post #33 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Point being, CDMA isn't that huge and was a very wise decision by Apple to support this network.

In comparison to GSM it doesn't look big, but in it's a very huge market that could eventually be tapped. Especially in the US where the iPhone would sell very well and the stock would increase so fas that it would leave Exxon in the dust.

I'm not questioning whether I think Verizon will come or not, I'm questioning the comments that say it's not financially viable for Apple to create a CDMA iPhone. I'd also like a TD-SCDMA iPhone but I bet there would be more subscribers buying an iPhone on Verizon's with their piddly 100M subs than on China Mobile's TD-SCDMA with a staggering 550M subs.

We don't know what the contracts are to date, but it seems obvious to me that T-Mobile USA would be the easiest and cheapest add for the number of subscribers so if they aren't getting it then Verizon or Sprint isn't getting.
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post #34 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonro View Post

T-Mobile would get the iPhone before Verizon? Just because they use the same protocols as AT&T and dozens of other carriers around the world that sell the iPhone? Are you sure you want to go out on a limb with a prediction like that?

Nah, you're not seeing the big picture.

T-Mobile subsidiaries are already official iPhone carriers in something like eight European countries. All Apple has to do is include the 1700MHz AWS band for T-Mobile USA's 3G data service.

Note that T-Mobile USA is already quite happy to have jailbroken iPhones on their GSM (voice) and EDGE (2.5G) networks.
post #35 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

Why is ATT not interested in this region? Why is there coverage just down the road in either direction? Why is ATT coverage so spotty?

Verizon's coverage is solid throughout North Jersey. Why?

And I'm not just talking about data, 3G or edge. I'm talking about phone calls. How long has ATT been in business? Shouldn't they have phone service figured out by now? Is not ATT a descendent of American Telephone and Telegraph? A company that was around a hundred years ago?

Your questions are very loaded. For starters there are business reasons that fall under priorities. Supporting, say, a rural area is less important than supporting, say, a congested metropolis. Then there are frequencies and radio technologies that make one work better in one area over another. Then there are logistical issues, like an inability to put up the towers you so desperately need.

Quote:
There is no excuse. If you have good coverage and you're happy with your service, then bless you, you got lucky. Enjoy it. But please don't defend them.

Not knowing an answer doesn't mean there isn't one. It also doesn't mean that AT&T can't be blamed for being lazy, cheap and/or incompetent, but you first need to establish a sound answer not make a wild claim based on comparing to disparate cellular technologies in your area.
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post #36 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Not knowing an answer doesn't mean there isn't one. It also doesn't mean that AT&T can't be blamed for being lazy, cheap and/or incompetent, but you first need to establish a sound answer not make a wild claim based on comparing to disparate cellular technologies in your area.

Establish a sound answer? How am I supposed to do that? Climb up on a telephone pole and start rooting around? I have a job to go to and a back yard that needs to be cut and laundry to be washed. I don't have time to study the intricacies of cell phone networks.

I don't know how a car works either, but I do expect it to take me all the way to work without dying.

The only reason I have time to be on this forum is because I am on vacation this week. And rather than go to a nice warm island, I am here trying to put the values of a customer over corporate greed, which is the real reason for ATT's exclusivity.

Now if you will excuse me, I'm going to the doctor to have my head examined.
post #37 of 66
"Vertical integration." As often as I hear it, I still hate this term. It means virtually nothing to me. (I know what is supposed to mean, it is just so cold and vague.)
post #38 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

Establish a sound answer? How am I supposed to do that?

You're not, that's why you and I can only have theories and why we can't say as an absolute statement "there is no excuse."
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post #39 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

According to this article - linked from your previous web-link - T-Mobile only has 33.7M Subscribers in the USA, not 150 like you state, which is the global number.

PatsFan83 did not say there were 150 million T-Mobile subscribers in the US. Just that T-Mobile has 150 millions subscribers (which happens to be worldwide).

And the iPhone is already (and has been) on T-Mobile in Germany.
post #40 of 66
I have been a T-mobile subscriber since they were Voicestream and they have great customer service and great prices. However, their 3G network is slow and not very reliable. My partner has an iPhone on AT&T here and he often has a signal when I do not. Hopefully if T-moble gets the iPhone, T-mobile will allow it to run on their wi-fi network as this is a HUGE benefit for when I have no 3G signal.
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