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Adobe releases Flash Player 10.1 for Mac - Page 2

post #41 of 267
6/11/10 at 4:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Planet Blue View Post

Allow me to play devils advocate for a second here. Im no Flash lover, but I kinda think Adobe has gotten a raw deal from Apple & co. regarding Flashs performance on Macs. People (and Steve Jobs) often say things like, Adobe couldnt even get Flash to run well on a Mac, so how could they get it to run on a phone? and otherwise criticize Flashs Mac performance. Yeah, its been terrible (my CPU jumps to 45% when watching videos with Flash), but Apple only JUST gave them access to those APIs to allow Flash to be hardware accelerated. Adobe didnt have much of a choice up until now (they had to use software acceleration). For Apple to criticize Adobe for Flashs performance on Macs all this time is pretty lame if you think about it. Its like telling someone to run only using one foot, and then sincerely and adamantly criticizing them for being slow.

So for all the people who seem to absolutely loathe Adobe Flash, I think its worth at least giving them until they release a stable version of the current beta version before making the final call on whether or not Adobe is lazy, Flash is awful, etc.

Whether this is related to Flashs occasional crash, I wouldnt know. Probably somewhat. Very high CPU cycles generally dont result in a great browsing experience.

So in your mind 'devil's advocate' means Adobe shill, I guess.

The fact is that no one else seems to require hardware acceleration to get good results. Furthermore, it's a total BS argument from Adobe. My daughter uses a game called 'Webkinz' which doesn't have any video, so it wouldn't benefit from hardware acceleration at all. It's a simple menuing system based on Flash - yet it shoots CPU usage over 100% on 10.0 and to right around 100% on 10.1----even when it's sitting there not doing anything? How in the world is it possible to use that much CPU to simply display a game that's idle when the same system can handle video editing or Photoshopping multi-MB images with aplomb?

Not to mention, of course, that in 2007 when Adobe promised Flash for the iPhone 'real soon now', they knew that hardware acceleration wasn't available, yet they were telling the world that they would have it soon. It never showed up.
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post #42 of 267
6/11/10 at 4:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotApple View Post

You and me are not talking about the same thing. Let me recap. Very simple. Understand, please.

iPhone runs HTML5 much slower than Nexus One runs flash:

http://recombu.com/news/flash-player...ne_M11610.html

"Chaize also shows HTML5 running on an iPhone 3GS and it's not pretty."

Really? You're arguing for Flash and you use a test comparing Flash to Canvas to say that all HTML5 is bad? You are absurdly dense or you are getting paid by Adobe to spread FUD. Again, he's showing HTML5's Canvas element, not HTML5. HTML5 ≠ Canvas

I posted a video of the EXACT video content from the exact same site for arguably the most used aspect of Flash on the internet. The numbers don't lie.

•

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP7A09ty1do You can't refute that, but go ahead and try; earn your shill money for the day.
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post #43 of 267
6/11/10 at 4:54am
Well, maybe if hardware acceleration was enabled in the 10.1 Mac version under discussion here, it might make some difference, HOWEVER, IT ISN'T.

For hardware acceleration on Macs with Snow Leopard 10.6.3 you need this:-

http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html

If you want to try it read the release notes first:-

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/f...leasenotes.pdf

btw Flash games are sh*t, I'm going back to Steam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotApple View Post

Great work, Adobe! I just installed 10.1 on my Windows 7 machine and even all my favorite flash games that are free run perfectly! I'll be getting a Nexus One real soon to replace my iPhone 3GS that cannot run simple things as Flash.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #44 of 267
6/11/10 at 5:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit View Post

One would think so, yes. Unfortunately, the Adobe that all feared when they they bought out (crushed) Macromedia has come alive. It's the Microsoft of the early 90's, without the monopoly. An aging giant Adobe is, and it had better get its shit together before long or it will fade into history.

And also crushed one of the best graphics programs at the time - Freehand

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post #45 of 267
6/11/10 at 5:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Well, maybe if hardware acceleration was enabled in the 10.1 Mac version under discussion here, it might make some difference, HOWEVER, IT ISN'T.

For hardware acceleration on Macs with Snow Leopard 10.6.3 you need this:-

http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html

If you want to try it read the release notes first:-

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/f...leasenotes.pdf

btw Flash games are sh*t, I'm going back to Steam.

Gala is certainly an improvement over the 10.1 release, but it still pales in comparison to HTML5. Flash 10.1 uses 6x the processing and Flash 10.1b2 uses 3x the processing as HTML5 in my video tests.

As for games, I have idea why anyone would use Flash games as an argument as to why Flash is a worth drain your mobile's battery. What is this,1999? Who plays Flash games so much that they just have to have it on their phone and can't be bothered with a native app?

I suppose as modern standards take hold the arguments are going to get even more outrageous.
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post #46 of 267
6/11/10 at 5:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Who plays Flash games so much that they just have to have it on their phone and can't be bothered with a native app?

How about the millions of Farmville players? You know that Flash-based game whose move to having a native iPhone app was big enough for Apple to have the game company's CEO come during the WWDC keynote speech? And that's just one of many Flash-based games with a huge user base and those DON'T have an iPhone app at this point.

Your argument seems to come down to: Who needs Flash games on their phone? Which is really close to saying: Who needs games on their phone? And then slides a little further to arguments like: Who needs to browse the web on their phone? If you going to talk about needs, the only thing a phone NEEDS to do is work as a phone.
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post #47 of 267
6/11/10 at 5:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Flash isn't more efficient that native webcode. Just check out streaming video from YouTube. it's also not more efficient than a native game.

Here, I even made one just to show you how incredibly wrong you are...

•

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP7A09ty1do

HTML5 0:04 - 0:11 low 16.0% high 24.3% for CPU.

Flash 0:19-0:27 Low 116.4% high 129.3% CPU.

This is better?! Gads what was it before Adobe fixed it?!?
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post #48 of 267
6/11/10 at 5:30am
I happen to have an (older) Flash Benchmark here (from Snails Animation)

can someone find out what results you get with before and after you upgrade to 10.1, or if this upgrade helps at all for non-video flash?

here's the Flash Benchmark
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post #49 of 267
6/11/10 at 5:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

How about the millions of Farmville players? You know that Flash-based game whose move to having a native iPhone app was big enough for Apple to have the game company's CEO come during the WWDC keynote speech? And that's just one of many Flash-based games with a huge user base and those DON'T have an iPhone app at this point.

Your argument seems to come down to: Who needs Flash games on their phone? Which is really close to saying: Who needs games on their phone? And then slides a little further to arguments like: Who needs to browse the web on their phone? If you going to talk about needs, the only thing a phone NEEDS to do is work as a phone.

You're right, I did forget about Farmville, the new poster child for Flash games. What other Flash games are played by millions at a time? Every Flash game demo I've seen running on the Nexus One seems to have come straight from 1999, hence my comment, but you're right, Farmville is popular.

Out of curiosity, are there any videos showcasing how effective Farmville is on the Nexus One?
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post #50 of 267
6/11/10 at 5:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximara View Post

All you show with that video is you are either blind, an idiot, or a blind idiot.

The community here is so sweet.
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post #51 of 267
6/11/10 at 5:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximara View Post

All you show with that video is you are either blind, an idiot, or a blind idiot.

HTML5 0:04 - 0:11 low 16.0% high 24.3% for CPU.

Flash 0:19-0:27 Low 116.4% high 129.3% CPU.

Last time I checked 24.3% is better than 116.4% CPU usage

Let's break this down. I state that HTML5 video uses LESS resources than Flash video on the same 1080p video on YouTube.

You agree with my assessment, yet I'm a Blind and/or Idiot for making the statement to which you agree. Care to explain that?
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post #52 of 267
6/11/10 at 5:55am
14009 Great
lite 60.19 fps
medium 59.39 fps
failed heavy test @ 20.51 fps

Shockwave Flash
Shockwave Flash 10.1 d81 from file Flash Player.plugin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devilhunter View Post

can someone find out what results you get with before and after you upgrade to 10.1, or if this upgrade helps at all for non-video flash?

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #53 of 267
6/11/10 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Whilst it is true that hardware acceleration APIs only became available recently on OS X, it is a massive red-herring perpetuated by Adobe that hardware acceleration is required for decent performance.

The fact is that Adobe are shit at optimising code on OS X, probably because they use their own compatibility layer so that they can write code once and deploy on multiple platforms. Of course, the whole thing is architected to work best on Windows, and when used on OS X performance sucks.

There is simply no way that Flash should use so much CPU time, even without hardware accelerated video decode. See this post from a different thread.

I read that post. Now while I know many legacy flash sites aren't taking advantage of it, flash has now had the ability to 'deep link' for some time now, it works very well, and if developers are good enough, resizing text is available. Particularly now with the new version of flash. Those are no longer disadvantages of flash.

flash has indeed sucked on macs for a long time, and adobe has been pretty lazy. But how many times does it need to be posted, it just boring. But it seems now, there's been a fire lit under their asses, and I see that as a good thing. Hopefully the fire stays lit. CS5 runs way better than the goopy crap CS4 (and previous) was.

In my tests, flash now isn't the cpu hog it once was, and I see it being very similar to html5 animations. This isn't a slam on html5, or any other similar technology.

But somehow I think, based on what I know of the platform and language changes, that things will get interesting over the next 2 years. From my perspective, knowing AS3, javascript (practically identical now... interestingly enough and something most posters here miss...) and related jQuery with of course CSS and the upcoming html5 and extensions, you are in a good spot.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #54 of 267
6/11/10 at 6:01am
ClicktoFlash keeps my MacPro from running hot and my battery from running out.
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post #55 of 267
6/11/10 at 6:14am
I don't get how the Windows version is less than 2 megs and the OS X version is over 7.
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post #56 of 267
6/11/10 at 6:14am
Really, I couldn't care less. Typically I block Flash, and will continue to do until I feel or think there's a compelling reason not to do so.
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http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

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Never quote idiots, they just clog up...
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post #57 of 267
6/11/10 at 6:14am
Quote:
Among the new features of Flash 10.1 is support for browser privacy features, which prevent Flash local data and browsing activity from persisting locally if the user has turned on the private browsing feature.

However, Adobe says this feature is not supported for Opera or Safari, meaning that Flash content won't respect users' private browsing preferences.


For those who don't know, you can set what Flash stores on your Opera and Safari browsers here.

http://www.macromedia.com/support/do...s_manager.html

It's a web based interface and I would at least turn off the camera and microphone, I wonder how many pr0n sites have hacked Flash to watch their users?... :O

Physical blocking of the input devices is the only sure method.
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post #58 of 267
6/11/10 at 6:19am
Does Rosetta Stone work with it? No? It'd better do. Enough of tricks with reverting to old Flash Player on Mac OS X just for Rosetta Stone - the most popular online way to learn languages.
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post #59 of 267
6/11/10 at 6:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If you watch YouTube often you can now run their HTML5 version completely and still get fullscreen with a Safari 5 extension.
http://www.cyberhq.nl/2010/06/08/res...l5-player.html Save your CPU cycles for something useful and help prevent Flash crashes.

The problem is there are alot more websites then just YouTube. So many local websites use Flash and its next to impossible to get away from it. When I say local websites I am talking about local news and weather that give me information that national sites don't. Also if you stream alot of video like I do you just simply can't avoid the need for Flash at this point.

So many people here keep talking about Youtube as its the fix all for everything. I really isn't even close. HTML5 isn't coming along as fast as people would suggest, and Flash simply isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
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post #60 of 267
6/11/10 at 6:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by devilhunter View Post

I happen to have an (older) Flash Benchmark here (from Snails Animation)

can someone find out what results you get with before and after you upgrade to 10.1, or if this upgrade helps at all for non-video flash?

here's the Flash Benchmark

Welcome to the forum. Interesting test.

Mid-2010 13" MBP 2/4GHz 4GB RAM

Shockwave Flash v10.0 r45
.Score: 10389
. Lite: 49.54 fps
Medium: 35.71 fps
.Heavy: 18.64 fps
.Ultra: —

Shockwave Flash 10.1 r53
.Score: 14224 . . . (37% improvement)
. Lite: 60.18 fps . (21% improvement)
Medium: 60.35 fps . (69% improvement)
.Heavy: 21.71 fps . (16% improvement)
.Ultra: —

Shockwave Flash 10.1 d81 ("Gala" Preview 2 w/ HW Acceleration†)
.Score: 14121
. Lite: 60.15 fps
Medium: 60.10 fps
.Heavy: 20.96 fps
.Ultra: — † Note that HW Acceleration is for H.264 decoding
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post #61 of 267
6/11/10 at 7:05am
Anyone know where you can see the version number of installed flash player? I cant seem to see it through Firefox or via System Profile.
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post #62 of 267
6/11/10 at 7:20am
So it does help for non-video flash files.

Thanks for trying it out hill60 & solipsism.
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post #63 of 267
6/11/10 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by benice View Post

Anyone know where you can see the version number of installed flash player? I cant seem to see it through Firefox or via System Profile.

In Firefox look under Tools, Add-ons, Plugins.
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post #64 of 267
6/11/10 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post

In Firefox look under Tools, Add-ons, Plugins.

Thanks for that. I tried it the first time, looked through the list for Adobe but didn't spot it as "Shockwave Flash". All clear now.
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post #65 of 267
6/11/10 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

So many people here keep talking about Youtube as its the fix all for everything. I really isn't even close. HTML5 isn't coming along as fast as people would suggest, and Flash simply isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Aside from the few thousand members of Mac tech rumor sites, not many people even know there is a pissing contest going on between Apple and Adobe. For the most part Flash works as advertised HTML 5, not so much.

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post #66 of 267
6/11/10 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotApple View Post

Great work, Adobe! I just installed 10.1 on my Windows 7 machine and even all my favorite flash games that are free run perfectly! I'll be getting a Nexus One real soon to replace my iPhone 3GS that cannot run simple things as Flash.


Finland has had a terrible rash of trolls recently. Ah yes, that would explain this post then wouldn't it.
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post #67 of 267
6/11/10 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotApple View Post

How many HTML5 games are there? Five? How many Flash games are there? FIVE MILLION!?

Also, Flash Player 10.1 on Nexus One runs the same stuff much faster than iPhone 3GS runs HTML5. Think about that. Both have ARM CPU inside.

that Google has discontinued the Nexus One then isn't it? Good thing they have such good end user support for it.

Um. Well. OK - well enjoy that.

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post #68 of 267
6/11/10 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

In fact, the reason Adobe makes such crap software is that they *do* have a monopoly.

I

In which market does Adobe have a monopoly?
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post #69 of 267
6/11/10 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

I installed it too and it works great, no problems. Hulu, Foxsports.com, yahoo all working great.



You don't understand. That doesn't really matter.
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post #70 of 267
6/11/10 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2P View Post

"However, Adobe says this feature is not supported for Opera or Safari, meaning that Flash content won't respect users' private browsing preferences." is all that I needed to hear... I'm skeptical... it make me ask:

Does this mean it will be less likely to be secure somehow?


Somehow, yes.
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post #71 of 267
6/11/10 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotApple View Post

Also, Flash Player 10.1 on Nexus One runs the same stuff much faster than iPhone 3GS runs HTML5.

Stop right there. According to Soli, Flash is not available on any mobile phone.
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post #72 of 267
6/11/10 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

In which market does Adobe have a monopoly?

In Finland, apparently.
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post #73 of 267
6/11/10 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1)
No one here is going to stop you from buying a Nexus One, but you may want to consider one of the other, better Android-based phones on the market before you commit to the failed Nexus One.

Can you recommend another, better Android phone that runs on AT&T?

And as far as the Nexus One being a failure, is it a failure in any manner except its marketing? Do you see it as a flawed product in and of itself, regardless of market penetration?
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post #74 of 267
6/11/10 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

The fact is that Adobe are shit at optimising code on OS X, probably because they use their own compatibility layer so that they can write code once and deploy on multiple platforms..



Why does Steve allow Adobe software on the Mac? Wouldn't it be better if you could only install software on the Mac which was sourced from an "Mac-lication Store" owned by Apple, selling only approved software?

That way, there would be a better user experience on the Mac. Anything that Apple can do to enhance the UX is good.
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post #75 of 267
6/11/10 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Not to mention, of course, that in 2007 when Adobe promised Flash for the iPhone 'real soon now', they knew that hardware acceleration wasn't available, yet they were telling the world that they would have it soon. It never showed up.

That's good enough for me.
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post #76 of 267
6/11/10 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Your argument seems to come down to: Who needs Flash games on their phone? Which is really close to saying: Who needs games on their phone? And then slides a little further to arguments like: Who needs to browse the web on their phone? If you going to talk about needs, the only thing a phone NEEDS to do is work as a phone.

Unless you can list many, many flash sites which are absolutely critical to maintaining life as you know it, some will claim that Flash is worthless.

And even if you provide such a list, they will tell you that the websites are worthless, and that you are wrong to visit them.
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post #77 of 267
6/11/10 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

The community here is so sweet.

That is one reason why I love this forum.
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post #78 of 267
6/11/10 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciekskontakt View Post

Does Rosetta Stone work with it? No? It'd better do. Enough of tricks with reverting to old Flash Player on Mac OS X just for Rosetta Stone - the most popular online way to learn languages.

Install Bootcamp. Problem solved.
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post #79 of 267
6/11/10 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

that Google has discontinued the Nexus One then isn't it?

Wrong. Totally wrong.

http://www.google.com/phone

If you don't know the facts, don't state conclusions.
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post #80 of 267
6/11/10 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

The problem is there are alot more websites then just YouTube. So many local websites use Flash and its next to impossible to get away from it. When I say local websites I am talking about local news and weather that give me information that national sites don't. Also if you stream alot of video like I do you just simply can't avoid the need for Flash at this point.

So many people here keep talking about Youtube as its the fix all for everything. I really isn't even close. HTML5 isn't coming along as fast as people would suggest, and Flash simply isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

same old argument, same old crap, why don't you just cut and paste.
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