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Apple releases redesigned Mac mini with HDMI port starting at $699 - Page 7

post #241 of 384
6/15/10 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I want it. Disappointed with the price increase, but I'd love to have a Mini as my living room media server. Unfortunately, I have to prioritize my expenses this year. My daughter moves in with me this Summer and starts secondary school in the fall. So my large expenditure priorities are... daughter's bedroom (~$500)>Piano ($1300)>iPad ($700)>daughter's MacBook Pro ($1200)>Mini ($800). I think I won't get the MacBook until Christmas and I won't get the Mini until Springtime...

Skip the piano and get a decent MIDI keyboard controller for $2-300. Piano softsynths for her MBP can be had anywhere from $100-$700. You can easily save yourself at least $700, which is Mini money heh. Of course, does she need both an MBP and an iPad? Just a couple of possible cost saving ideas


Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Apple uses "overseas" support centres as well, I got one when I rang about my iMac failing, it wasn't a very nice experience, the language wasn't the issue, it was Apple providing them incorrect information. My Dell has never failed, so I can't comment about their support centres.

The only experience I ever had with Dell was when I was trying to help a friend out. He had just bought a brand new Dell computer and a week later the hard drive died on him. He had the hard drive replaced and a week later it had all kind of problems. I ended up on the phone with tech support while I was googling for possible answers. We got nowhere from them, unless we wanted to fork over money to talk to their pay line. Well within the warranty period, it was total crap. I found the answer to the problem and told them they had been completely unhelpful and I was going to recommend to my friend that he try and get his extra warranty money back.
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post #242 of 384
6/15/10 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

It's the shared memory/integrated version of the 320M. But still twice as fast as the current 9400M supposedly.

Ah, damn. I thought it was dedicated. My 19/mo old MacBook Pro has the 9400M and the 9600M GT and requires manual switching between the two; I bet the 320M is considerably slower than the 9600M GT I have now, no? I wish Apple offered the ability to upgrade to the 330M, at the very least. That doesn't seem like an unreasonable request.
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post #243 of 384
6/15/10 at 2:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I wholeheartedly disagree with that assessment. This is just a Mac using the TV footprint and having an HDMI port. It still doesn't have the SW or the price point that make it a viable media extender appliance.

But it can play any media I throw at it (except BR). I can finally have a convenient place to sync my iPods every day (not as convenient with my MacBook Pro, which I always use in bed or on the sofa). It can play iTunes visuals on my HDTV while I listen to music. I can browse the internet on it. I can connect it to my digital piano, and my daughter and I can use it for sequencing, recording or composing.

For me it's a FAR better living room device than the very limited Apple TV or something else limited and proprietary like an XBox or PS3.
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post #244 of 384
6/15/10 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

Just out of curiosity:

How will the Mini server software be upgraded without another Mac with an optical drive or an external optical drive? Do you think that's why there is an SD slot in the Mini?

The mini Server is the only other Mac that explicitly supports the slim external SuperDrive they originally made for the MacBook Air. Its a nice tradeoff, and I'm pretty sure (but haven't verified) that the USB ports on the regular mini will also support the drive, for those of us tempted to rip out the built-in SuperDrive to make space for a second (mirrored) HDD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

USB 3 peripherals are emerging. Why do you think the new Mini doesn't have a USB 3 port?

Why do you think the new Mini doesn't have an eSata port?

I don't know why Mac stuff doesn't come with eSata (and wish it did) but I do know that Intel is the one who needs to get off their arse with the USB 3 spec for integrated components and start putting together the pieces so that it can be deployed on small laptops (and desktops that use small laptop components). Intel is the bad guy in this particular case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

In that case it's just another way for Apple to differentiate the product and let you know that if you want the faster hard drives you'll have to pony up. The difference between a 5400rpm and a 7200rpm in a server being hit by multiple users at once would probably be more pronounced than the difference of 5400 vs 7200 for a single desktop user.

Oh, I'm sure you're right, and maybe it has to do with the low power usage marketing claims, but the first thing I do with any mini is rip out the 5400rpm drives and replace them with the 2.5" 7200rpm drive du jour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

I would say that 1)Internet downloads, usb key or SD card, 2)USB3 will be on an Apple product when Intel starts supporting it themselves next year and 3)b/c Apple probably views eSata as a "Pro" option unneeded on the Mini.

'Zactly right.

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post #245 of 384
6/15/10 at 2:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

Skip the piano and get a decent MIDI keyboard controller for $2-300. Piano softsynths for her MBP can be had anywhere from $100-$700. You can easily save yourself at least $700, which is Mini money heh. Of course, does she need both an MBP and an iPad? Just a couple of possible cost saving ideas

Nah. I'm going to invest in a digital piano this time. I need real key response feel. Even the best weighted key controllers don't feel as good as a decent dedicated digital piano, and weighted key controllers cost a lot more than $300.

I'm getting the Casio Privia PX-830BP (Black Lacquer).



I know... Casio... but honestly, it has far better sound than the Rolands at the same price point (the Rolands sound like toys as soon as you use the sustain pedal). The keys feel the best of any digital piano at the price point as well. And the design is great, as it supplies a completely flat surface when closed. It'll be a nice piece of furniture. I'm paying the $100 premium to get the black lacquer instead of the black wood finish just because it looks fantastic. I'm really excited about this purchase. Casio got this one right.

And I need the iPad. I'll actually be giving her my 2009 MBP and upgrading mine to the new model.

She's the one that needs the piano, and as a classical piano student, she needs a real piano feel. And I'm looking forward to going back and learning to play again as well. I'll finally be able to finish Debussy's First Arabesque.
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post #246 of 384
6/15/10 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Dunno if the price in dollars has increaded or not, but for us Brits this supposedly entry level Mac is now VERY expensive.

No sale for me, shame because it looks really nice.

Nowadays every new mac mini iteration is $100 more costlier than the previous one... Remember Jobs speaking of an affordable entry-level mac some years ago? Well it is clearly not anymore.
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post #247 of 384
6/15/10 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Ah, damn. I thought it was dedicated. My 19/mo old MacBook Pro has the 9400M and the 9600M GT and requires manual switching between the two; I bet the 320M is considerably slower than the 9600M GT I have now, no? I wish Apple offered the ability to upgrade to the 330M, at the very least. That doesn't seem like an unreasonable request.

The performance is pretty damn good for an IGP. Here's one set of benchmarks...
Just did a side by side test with old 2.26G model with new 2.4G model.
Speaking of 3DMark 06,
My 9400M scored 2170 while the 320M scored 4748!
FPS during test was usually 2x or more. That makes a lot of games playable on 320M while not playable on 9400M

Compared to old 9600M GT model, according to Notebookcheck.net, it averages 5163, and GT 330M is just 6539.
So, 6539/4748=1.377, only about 40% increase going up to 15" models? Interesting.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=897364
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

But it can play any media I throw at it (except BR). I can finally have a convenient place to sync my iPods every day (not as convenient with my MacBook Pro, which I always use in bed or on the sofa). It can play iTunes visuals on my HDTV while I listen to music. I can browse the internet on it. I can connect it to my digital piano, and my daughter and I can use it for sequencing, recording or composing.

For me it's a FAR better living room device than the very limited Apple TV or something else limited and proprietary like an XBox or PS3.

Sure, and you can even rip Blu-ray and play them, too. The problem is that Mac OS X is not well suited to be used on an HDTV with a remote. FrontRow was clearly a trial gearing up for the AppleTV's BackRow, but it hasn't received enhancements since Leopard.

In many ways I prefer the PS3 or TiVo. They can play pretty much everything you through at them and even though they have their issues at least they are designed to be connected to a TV.

You cant just plug a Mac Mini into your TV, grab a remote control and have a proper media extender. That means it's ever going to be ideal or well suited for the average customer.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #248 of 384
6/15/10 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Sure, and you can even rip Blu-ray and play them, too.

I'm aware I can download 1080p content, but how do you rip Blu-ray on a Mac?
Quote:
The problem is that Mac OS X is not well suited to be used on an HDTV with a remote. FrontRow was clearly a trial gearing up for the AppleTV's BackRow, but it hasn't received enhancements since Leopard.

In many ways I prefer the PS3 or TiVo. They can play pretty much everything you through at them and even though they have their issues at least they are designed to be connected to a TV.

You cant just plug a Mac Mini into your TV, grab a remote control and have a proper media extender. That means it's ever going to be ideal or well suited for the average customer.

Ah... fortunately I already have the Magic Mouse and Bluetooth Keyboard. Combined with the Apple Remote for convenience of skipping tracks and changing volume, I'm pretty well covered, thanks. I'd rather have the inconvenience of the desktop and the power of the Macintosh than something that can't do everything I would like to do. Kind of opposite of my feeling about the iPad vs. Netbook, but there you have it.
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post #249 of 384
6/15/10 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Skip the piano and get a decent MIDI keyboard controller for $2-300. Piano softsynths for her MBP can be had anywhere from $100-$700. You can easily save yourself at least $700, which is Mini money heh. Of course, does she need both an MBP and an iPad? Just a couple of possible cost saving ideas

+1 on the Privia.

I'm a real snob when it comes to music gear, but I got a Casio Privia (the PX-320) for my son that has great weighted key action, a really nice bright built-in "rock piano", two 1/8" headphone jacks, L/R (stereo) line outs, and midi in/thru/out. It can do what a decent midi keyboard can do and it can do all the normal piano-lesson type stuff as well. At the time it was like $500 plus another $100 for the stand custom designed for that keyboard.

I play it all the time, esp. in the evening after the kids have gone to bed. It's not like a Yamaha CP300 stage piano (doesn't need to be) and it's not a "real" piano but it's definitely close enough and the ability to control the volume or play through headphones is huge for family harmony.

If it's just a music theory kind of class then any midi keyboard will do, but to learn proper piano technique a nice weighted keyboard at the correct height is very important.

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post #250 of 384
6/15/10 at 3:15pm
an attractive enclosure, but isn't this a fairly poorly thought out design?

these things are designed to sit on shelves in people's home entertainment units - yet the inputs that would need to be accessed relatively frequently are hidden on the back?

Apple want me to pull the whole unit out of my cabinet to be able to insert an SD card or a USB drive?? That's just plain dumb. Sure it looks good, but it's dumb.

Same with the power switch really.

(It's as bad as the location of the mini-DP port on the Gen 1 unibody Macbook Pros that blocked access to the USB ports - which they then had to fix in the updates)
15" uMacbook Pro 2.4Ghz 4GB 500 GB 7200rpm, iPhone 4 32 GB, iPad 3G 64GB, Apple TV2, iPod Nano 2nd gen, iPod Touch 4th gen, iPod Nano 5th gen, Airport Extreme, Magic Mouse, Bluetooth Keyboard
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15" uMacbook Pro 2.4Ghz 4GB 500 GB 7200rpm, iPhone 4 32 GB, iPad 3G 64GB, Apple TV2, iPod Nano 2nd gen, iPod Touch 4th gen, iPod Nano 5th gen, Airport Extreme, Magic Mouse, Bluetooth Keyboard
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post #251 of 384
6/15/10 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

I don't know why Mac stuff doesn't come with eSata (and wish it did) but I do know that Intel is the one who needs to get off their arse with the USB 3 spec for integrated components and start putting together the pieces so that it can be deployed on small laptops (and desktops that use small laptop components). Intel is the bad guy in this particular case.

How about Firewire 3200? The official spec has been out for a while now.
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post #252 of 384
6/15/10 at 3:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

How about Firewire 3200? The official spec has been out for a while now.

Unfortunately official specs do not necessarily translate into third-party support or shipping products.

(I suspect Firewire will finally fade away once USB3 becomes popular.)
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post #253 of 384
6/15/10 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

"Blu-ray is a bag of hurt".

- Steve Jobs

He was specifically referring to some of the licensing requirements. Guess what? That particular "bag of hurt" was fixed years ago. According to Jobs' own words, that was the issue, and it's been fixed. There is no reason why they shouldn't include the drives now, save for some delusion that their crappy HD downloads can hold a candle to even an average BluRay.
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post #254 of 384
6/15/10 at 4:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBLACK View Post

Just too expensive. Nobody wants to pay that kind of money for a stand alone desktop. $100 less and maybe it would be worth it. For what you would spend on a base mac mini and 24 inch apple display, you could just buy yourself a 3.06ghz 27 inch iMac for about the same price, and that comes with a bigger hard disk and twice the ram. Makes no sense.

Also, if you bought a mac mini with 4 gigs ram, 500gig hdd, shitty keyboard and mouse, and a cheap 22'ish inch 1080p display you could be spending more than the base 21.5 inch imac, which has same ram and hdd, better IPS display, and comes with a bluetooth keyboard and magic mouse???

This is absolutely, undoubtably, a complete ripoff even by Apple standards.

It's also the lowest-cost way to get a Mac desktop without a high-glare (glossy) screen.

Until Apple offers matte as BTO on the iMac (which they could very easily do), my next machine just might have to be a mini with a Dell display.
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post #255 of 384
6/15/10 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oxygenhose View Post

You should use brain before mouth.

Maybe you should do the same

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxygenhose View Post

Regardless... 96k is an idiotic spec, you'll never actually hear the difference the marketing has convinced you of. You're obviously a home user if this is such a 'required feature', however beyond the pure pointless nature of the sampling rate/frequency combo mentioned, I'd also like to hip you to the fact that if you want to sound all 'audio pro' remember the following:

The majority of the people that purchase a Mac Mini will be home users, and the majority of them will be happy using a single $5 cable to deliver audio quality that they are happy with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxygenhose View Post

1. As a digital audio connection, HDMI is not the optimum choice, even digital rca coaxial is more reliable, the big boys use optical or even better AES/EBU.
2. If you want to flaunt specs, try 192kHz/24bit - otherwise remember you are a 'mid-sumer stereo customer', best not to try acting all macho in public.
3. Listen more carefully to study music more effectively, if you're missing something in 44.1kHz/16bit 'CD-quality' audio, it might not be a fidelity problem.

HDMI handles 192kHz/24bit audio with no issues, in multichannel as well, I'm not sure what you are trying to show with that comment, maybe the fact that you can't spell summer is your point?

The optical you are trying to talk about isn't the toslink that is featured on most audio devices, I'm sure people will be happy spending thousands on AES/EBU to get the same audio they can get from a CD, or a Blu-ray.

He was asking a simple question, I'm not sure why you guys feel the need to abuse everyone that asks a simple question.
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post #256 of 384
6/15/10 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Nah. I'm going to invest in a digital piano this time. I need real key response feel. Even the best weighted key controllers don't feel as good as a decent dedicated digital piano, and weighted key controllers cost a lot more than $300.

Cool man. I figured there was more to it, but thought I'd give things a shot Good luck on all that.
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post #257 of 384
6/15/10 at 4:47pm
As someone who has performed surgery on a few Mac mini.


The biggies here to me.

1. Easy RAM access. Nuff said no pulling out the whole guts to install RAM. Nice.
2. Internal PS...no more white box dangling all over the place. Much cleaner setup.
3. Smaller size with alu milling. Should dissipate heat well and it is a very efficient desktop
4. SD card slot. Easy photo import

I'm a bit surprised that the main complaints have centered around cost (which we all know Apple is premium priced) and Blu-ray (which is not available in ANY Mac or Apple product for that matter)

The good stuff here is being overshadowed by people "dreaming" . I'm amazed at the miniaturization of the new Mini.
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post #258 of 384
6/15/10 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

As someone who has performed surgery on a few Mac mini.


The biggies here to me.

1. Easy RAM access. Nuff said no pulling out the whole guts to install RAM. Nice.
2. Internal PS...no more white box dangling all over the place. Much cleaner setup.
3. Smaller size with alu milling. Should dissipate heat well and it is a very efficient desktop
4. SD card slot. Easy photo import

What about the hard drive?

Quote:
I'm a bit surprised that the main complaints have centered around cost (which we all know Apple is premium priced)

The people who respond to this "complaint" are ignoring the fact that the starting price went up from the previous model. Instead of directly addressing the price increase over the previous model, they revert to the "Macs are premium priced", "You get what you pay for", "If you don't like it then go buy a PC" type of responses. So how about addressing why Apple raised the starting price instead of keeping it the same, like they have usually done?

And another question: How does this $699 model compare to the previous $799 model?
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post #259 of 384
6/15/10 at 5:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Yes, but there are posters who whine about everything. At the same time as some people whine......

And then there are posters who come in with know it all bad attitudes to attempt to lord it over everyone.....

At least this one was nicer than the post you left in the other Mac mini thread, though not by much.
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post #260 of 384
6/15/10 at 6:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iReality85 View Post

I'll admit that the updated Mac Mini looks nice, but for a MINIMUM of six benjamins, I feel it is quite underwhelming. I think the arguements in the end boil down to (again) being able to use OS X, which is a defense used for all Apple products. Also, lets not forget that $600 gets you only the computer. I just did a trial buy on Apple's site... $1,934 for the base configuration + 27" Apple monitor, Apple wireless keyboard & magic mouse, iWork, and AppleCare. Yikes.

Mac Mini 2010 - $1394 total ($987 for mini)

2.66Ghz Core 2 Duo
GeForce 320M
2GB RAM
320GB HDD
Apple Magic Mouse
Apple Wireless Keyboard

Dell SP2309 23" HD Widescreen w/webcam 2048x1152 resolution - $219

Add $188 for upgrades from New Egg

Seagate Momentus 7200.4 500GB 7200RPM 2.5" SATA $79
Crucial 2x2GB kit for $109

--

Base iMac - $1199 (+ tax and shipping)

3.06Ghz Core 2 Duo
GeForce 9400M
4GB RAM
500GB HDD
Apple Magic Mouse
Apple Wireless Keyboard
Built in Apple 21.5" display - 1920x1080 resolution

--

So for $195 (and a bit of install) you gain:

320M vs 9400M
23" 2048x1152 display vs 21.5" 1920x1080 display
spare 320GB HDD you can use in a cheap external enclosure for TimeMachine.

You lose

0.4Ghz CPU

Yes, the Dell is TN and the 21.5" is IPS. The IPS 23" UltraSharp is $299.

For me the Mini represents a better value than the 21.5" iMac given the GPU is faster and I can get the screen I want (whether IPS for photo or TN for gaming)

Personally, I'd get a 4GB module and 1 GB module for 5GB of RAM in the mini. The OCZ 4GB is down to $119 so it's only $10 more than the 2x2GB although I prefer Crucial over OCZ. At least I'm not throwing away the 2GB sticks if I want 8GB later.
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post #261 of 384
6/15/10 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

The people who respond to this "complaint" are ignoring the fact that the starting price went up from the previous model. Instead of directly addressing the price increase over the previous model, they revert to the "Macs are premium priced", "You get what you pay for", "If you don't like it then go buy a PC" type of responses. So how about addressing why Apple raised the starting price instead of keeping it the same, like they have usually done?

Personally, I'm just happy that it got the 320M GPU. If bumping the mini $100 to the $699 price point means more refreshes I'm all for it.

Having Apple ignore the mini for another 18 months and keeping the 9400M would have seriously sucked. That big stretch from Mid 2007 to Early 2009 was really bad for mini lovers.

Since then we've had updates late 2009 and now mid 2010. If we get a mid/late 2011 update with Core i3 and a new GPU that would make the buy a new mini every year and ebay the old one strategy work fairly well.

Then the TCO for the mini should handily beat most iMacs.

And Apple doesn't really need a switcher machine anymore given the halo effect of the iPhone and iPad.
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post #262 of 384
6/15/10 at 6:23pm
No way, the Server version has 7200 rpm drives -- check your facts first.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

Actually as hard drive density has scaled as high as it has, 5400rpm hard drives are much more feasible than they used to be. Yes, a 7200rpm would be nicer for the OS drive, but my guess is heat limitations kept them using 5400 rpm.
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post #263 of 384
6/15/10 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

Nowadays every new mac mini iteration is $100 more costlier than the previous one...

Doesn't anyone check facts any more? The Mini server price is unchanged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

The people who respond to this "complaint" are ignoring the fact that the starting price went up from the previous model. Instead of directly addressing the price increase over the previous model, they revert to the "Macs are premium priced", "You get what you pay for", "If you don't like it then go buy a PC" type of responses. So how about addressing why Apple raised the starting price instead of keeping it the same, like they have usually done?

Does it matter? Why would it matter if the price was raised purely due to greed or if Intel had increased the component price by $100? Ultimately, you look at the product. You look at the price. You then decide to buy or not to buy (or to buy the older model). The manufacturer's logic in setting the price is irrelevant.

For the record, the new model costs about $100 more than the old entry level (and $100 less than the old mid-range system). For that price you get:

HDMI (for some people, that alone may be worth the price)
SD card slot (remember all the iPad whining that insisted that having an SD card slot was SOOOOO critical?)
Sturdier case, presumably better heat transfer
Slightly faster CPU than old base model, slightly slower than old mid-range model
Twice the RAM capacity
Dramatically faster GPU
Power supply integral to case rather than dangling on the cord
Smaller case

Without knowing the costs of all those items, it's impossible to say if Apple is making more money, the same money, or less money than on the old system, but as I said, it's irrelevant. You look at those changes and look at the old model (which you can still find online) and decide which of them (if any) meets your needs. End of discussion.

Sheesh. People will complain about anything.
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post #264 of 384
6/15/10 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

No way, the Server version has 7200 rpm drives -- check your facts first.

That doesn't necessarily rule out the heat issue. It could be that the optical drive blocks air flow enough that the 7200 would be a problem. I don't know for sure, but I"m assuming that these use 2.5" disks, so it's plausible that the airflow around a second hard disk would be better than the airflow around an optical drive, allowing for faster drives in the server version.
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post #265 of 384
6/15/10 at 7:22pm
Why You Should Buy This System?
- AMD Athlon II X2 Dual Core 250 2.90GHz (Socket AM3) offers multitasking performance.
- 250GB Seagate Barracuda hard drive gives a solid and reliable storage capacity.
- 4GB of 1333MHz DDR3 RAM allows for snappy and precise processes to be made.
- HIS ATI Radeon HD 4850 iCooler IV 1024MB GDDR3 offers superb gaming performance.

From Overclockers.co.uk

£429.99 inc VAT (minus the OS. Pick your flavour...of Windows...)

Note the inclusion of a 'cheap ass' card that Apple only deems worthy of inclusion on a 'high end' iMac.

And there's '6 core' systems for less than a grand and not much more than a mini.

Yeah. And some people complain about 'anything.' Anything. Apple could have thrown in a Radeon 4850, 2 gigs more ram and a quad core cpu and still made a profit over the old mini price of less than 400.

But they won't/don't because they're greedy.

Lemon Bon Bon.
You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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post #266 of 384
6/15/10 at 7:25pm
Yea, no excuses for the lagging Mac I/O ports, IMHO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

How about Firewire 3200? The official spec has been out for a while now.
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post #267 of 384
6/15/10 at 7:26pm
You won't see it until an iLife with Blu-Ray features is released...

Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

He was specifically referring to some of the licensing requirements. Guess what? That particular "bag of hurt" was fixed years ago. According to Jobs' own words, that was the issue, and it's been fixed. There is no reason why they shouldn't include the drives now, save for some delusion that their crappy HD downloads can hold a candle to even an average BluRay.
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post #268 of 384
6/15/10 at 7:29pm
Thanks for your recent refresh of the Mac Mini. It truly is ground breaking. It's small, lightweight, looks pretty and boasts "killer" integrated graphics. We rejoice at the 100% boost in frame rates for your Steam games, because 20 FPS is defiantly better than 10 - Even on a Mac.

It sounds so good on paper, I will have to go and get one. I don't mind even paying an extra £110 for a magic mouse and wireless aluminium keyboard. It's the only item like it in it's product segment, and is worthy of the price premium.

Thanks once again App... Oh, What's this?

http://www1.euro.dell.com/uk/en/home...=ukdhs1&~ck=mn


Oh, look - Competition. 1/3 of the price and comes with a keyboard and mouse. But wait, what am I thinking? Sorry Apple, I digress for a moment there. I will still buy the Mac Mini. It makes much more sense after banging my head against my desk a few times.

In fact, I'll have 2.

Regards,
Tipoo
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post #269 of 384
6/15/10 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Why You Should Buy This System?
- AMD Athlon II X2 Dual Core 250 2.90GHz (Socket AM3) offers multitasking performance.
- 250GB Seagate Barracuda hard drive gives a solid and reliable storage capacity.
- 4GB of 1333MHz DDR3 RAM allows for snappy and precise processes to be made.
- HIS ATI Radeon HD 4850 iCooler IV 1024MB GDDR3 offers superb gaming performance.

From Overclockers.co.uk

£429.99 inc VAT (minus the OS. Pick your flavour...of Windows...)

Note the inclusion of a 'cheap ass' card that Apple only deems worthy of inclusion on a 'high end' iMac.

And there's '6 core' systems for less than a grand and not much more than a mini.

Yeah. And some people complain about 'anything.' Anything. Apple could have thrown in a Radeon 4850, 2 gigs more ram and a quad core cpu and still made a profit over the old mini price of less than 400.

But they won't/don't because they're greedy.

Lemon Bon Bon.

Well, you HAVE managed to prove that you don't know anything about computers.

Simply knowing the GPU in a system doesn't tell you ANYTHING about the quality of the system. There are great and lousy video cards made the the same processor (albeit often different specs). Same thing with RAM. Apple isn't going to use the same junk RAM that you're obviously content with.

And please explain how Apple could have put a Radeon 4850 and quad core CPU into the Mini. You've added AT LEAST 50% to the heat generation and power consumption. Not to mention that you don't have ANY idea what Apple's costs are.

Why do you insist on making inane posts about subjects you know nothing about?
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post #270 of 384
6/15/10 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoo View Post

Thanks once again App... Oh, What's this?

http://www1.euro.dell.com/uk/en/home...=ukdhs1&~ck=mn


Oh, look - Competition. 1/3 of the price and comes with a keyboard and mouse. But wait, what am I thinking? Sorry Apple, I digress for a moment there. I will still buy the Mac Mini. It makes much more sense after banging my head against my desk a few times.

1/3 the price? The cheapest one is 329 UK pounds - closer to half the price than 1/3.

More importantly, that's a 1.5 Ghz Athlon processor - not even in the same league as the Mini. Yours has a slower GPU and drastically larger profile.

Finally, it's a Dell - one of the worst systems on the planet. I'd prefer to buy a system that will work and, if there is a problem, comes with reasonable support. There's a reason why Apple always ranks at the top in user satisfaction and computer reliability.

As has been said repeatedly, if you want to buy cheap junk, no one's stopping you. But please stop pretending that your Yugo is the same thing as a BMW because it has one steering wheel, 4 tires, two doors, and seats 4.
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post #271 of 384
6/15/10 at 7:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Well, you HAVE managed to prove that you don't know anything about computers.

Simply knowing the GPU in a system doesn't tell you ANYTHING about the quality of the system. There are great and lousy video cards made the the same processor (albeit often different specs). Same thing with RAM. Apple isn't going to use the same junk RAM that you're obviously content with.

And please explain how Apple could have put a Radeon 4850 and quad core CPU into the Mini. You've added AT LEAST 50% to the heat generation and power consumption. Not to mention that you don't have ANY idea what Apple's costs are.

Why do you insist on making inane posts about subjects you know nothing about?

Apple for the most part uses Samsung memory. Not exactly what anyone would consider high end memory.

Most of the core hardware in Apple systems can be found in any mid range PC. Apple has used Hitachi hard drives for a long time which is exactly what I have in my Apple and PC systems.

As for the GPU I would assume Apple is using standard OEM cards hardly higher end compared to something say from EVGA.

I have owned Apple hardware for a few decades now and I would say without a doubt I have had more issues with Apple hardware then I have ever had with any of my PC hardware. Then again I tend to always buy very high end Windows systems or build them myself. Most of my Apple hardware issues have been heat related over the years.

However you are correct to expect insane hardware specs out of the mac mini is unreasonable. Its not a high end system.
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post #272 of 384
6/15/10 at 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Apple for the most part uses Samsung memory. Not exactly what anyone would consider high end memory.

Most of the core hardware in Apple systems can be found in any mid range PC. Apple has used Hitachi hard drives for a long time which is exactly what I have in my Apple and PC systems.

As for the GPU I would assume Apple is using standard OEM cards hardly higher end compared to something say from EVGA.

I have owned Apple hardware for a few decades now and I would say without a doubt I have had more issues with Apple hardware then I have ever had with any of my PC hardware. Then again I tend to always buy very high end Windows systems or build them myself. Most of my Apple hardware issues have been heat related over the years.

However you are correct to expect insane hardware specs out of the mac mini is unreasonable. Its not a high end system.

You're also making the same mistake. You're assuming that all Hitachi hard drives are created equal and that all Samsung memory is created equal. And that all video cards with the same GPU are identical.

That isn't even close to being true. For example, some time ago, there was a problem with third party memory used in Macs. Even when the memory allegedly met the same specs, it didn't work - because Apple used tighter tolerances. Same thing with capacitors a decade before. It is absolutely insane to think that you can state that two systems are identical simply because they both use DDR3 RAM, Core 2 Duo processor and Nvidia graphics.

Bottom line is that, your alleged experience aside, Macs have far greater reliability and customer satisfaction than anything from Dell - or any other vendor, for that matter.
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post #273 of 384
6/15/10 at 8:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

You're also making the same mistake. You're assuming that all Hitachi hard drives are created equal and that all Samsung memory is created equal. And that all video cards with the same GPU are identical.

That isn't even close to being true. For example, some time ago, there was a problem with third party memory used in Macs. Even when the memory allegedly met the same specs, it didn't work - because Apple used tighter tolerances. Same thing with capacitors a decade before. It is absolutely insane to think that you can state that two systems are identical simply because they both use DDR3 RAM, Core 2 Duo processor and Nvidia graphics.

Bottom line is that, your alleged experience aside, Macs have far greater reliability and customer satisfaction than anything from Dell - or any other vendor, for that matter.

Are you kidding me? Show me anything that would defend the arguement that Apple somehow gets some magical supply of Hitachi hard drives or Samsung memory.

As for video cards while ATI and Nvidia supply the chipset many of the vendors create the entire card around the chipset.

I am not making a mistake about anything I have been building my own computers since I was 19.

If you were talking about things like CPU codiing which gamers like myself often pick for better overclocking then you would have a point but things like Samsung memory is nothing more then Samsung memory.

Apple would have to use at least a difference in CAS Latency for better performance which they don't because I have tested it.

You say I am making a mistake, when I talk about CPU coding like a C1 compared to an E0 or memory CL do you even know what I am talking about?

While I enjoy my Apple systems, with Apple you get what you get good or bad, when I build my own systems I get what I want.

Also in regards to GPU's Apple seems to have issues at times seeing the last two times they put out first gen iMacs they have to supply firmware updates due to GPU hangs. Which in both cases took several months to resolve.
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post #274 of 384
6/15/10 at 8:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Are you kidding me? Show me anything that would defend the arguement that Apple somehow gets some magical supply of Hitachi hard drives or Samsung memory.

As for video cards while ATI and Nvidia supply the chipset many of the vendors create the entire card around the chipset.

I am not making a mistake about anything I have been building my own computers since I was 19.

If you were talking about things like CPU codiing which gamers like myself often pick for better overclocking then you would have a point but things like Samsung memory is nothing more then Samsung memory.

Apple would have to use at least a difference in CAS Latency for better performance which they don't because I have tested it.

You say I am making a mistake, when I talk about CPU coding like a C1 compared to an E0 or memory CL do you even know what I am talking about?

While I enjoy my Apple systems, with Apple you get what you get good or bad, when I build my own systems I get what I want.

Also in regards to GPU's Apple seems to have issues at times seeing the last two times they put out first gen iMacs they have to supply firmware updates due to GPU hangs. Which in both cases took several months to resolve.

So you think your handwaving somehow negates reality?

There are documented cases supporting what I said - RAM in one case and capacitors in another.

Most importantly, the proof is in the pudding. It really doesn't matter if it's the CPU or RAM latency or capacitor tolerances or power supply stability or motherboard (both power supply and motherboard are unique to Apple, btw) reliability. Apple has better reliability than other vendors. Period. End of discussion.
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post #275 of 384
6/15/10 at 8:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

What about the hard drive?

Momentus XT hybrid HDD/SSD drive. Near SSD performance without the $$$$$


Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

The people who respond to this "complaint" are ignoring the fact that the starting price went up from the previous model. Instead of directly addressing the price increase over the previous model, they revert to the "Macs are premium priced", "You get what you pay for", "If you don't like it then go buy a PC" type of responses. So how about addressing why Apple raised the starting price instead of keeping it the same, like they have usually done?

And another question: How does this $699 model compare to the previous $799 model?

I know others have said that but i'm not going to parrot that same statement. The new mini is more expensive and looks the part clearly but I tend to think along the lines of "once the outside has been modified the internals can be changed later" read possibly more integrated CPU/GPU options in the future that will once again reduce cost.

The cool thing to me is the SD card slot. I'd certainly be interested in the mini server and not having an optical drive means little if I've got 32GB of storage available on the SD slot.

Now Apple has SD slots in

Mac mini
iMac
Macbook Pro

Sounds like I won't need an optical drive going forward.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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post #276 of 384
6/15/10 at 9:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

So you think your handwaving somehow negates reality?

There are documented cases supporting what I said - RAM in one case and capacitors in another.

Most importantly, the proof is in the pudding. It really doesn't matter if it's the CPU or RAM latency or capacitor tolerances or power supply stability or motherboard (both power supply and motherboard are unique to Apple, btw) reliability. Apple has better reliability than other vendors. Period. End of discussion.

Of course you want to end the discussion because clearly you don't have a clue what I am talking about. If you did then you could put up a solid debate, which clearly you can't.

There are many tier 2 and tier 3 vendors that have far better reliability then Apple. At a lower cost.

Apple in 2008 and 2009 still scored the highest with a 9.2, 16% of their hardware needed repairs on average. Companies like Asus had an 8.8 rating, hardly a bad rating. Asus while getting a lower score then Apple had only an 6% product repair, Sony was right next to Apple with 18%. Toshiba had a 13% repair ratio.

So blind loyality to Apple doesn't equal better numbers. They just simply have a cult like following.
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post #277 of 384
6/15/10 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorre View Post

You can order the Apple Remote with it, I don't think they'd do that if it didn't have an IR port... Besides, they market this as an HTPC... of course it'll have one

That being said, this is such poor value compared to the MacBook... or anything else from Apple's product line for that matter. And it's not like Apple's product line has an amazing specs/price ratio to begin with.


1) IR remote??? That is some archaic shit. Try Apple's free "Remote" app on your iPod Touch or iPhone for full control of iTunes, or you could try any of the plethora of third party remote applications.

2) Apple's product line may not have "amazing spec/price ratio" but they simply just work, every time, all the time, without fail. Unlike any PC you can name that may look better on paper, but is flakey as hell, like most PCs. So how's about you get a clue?
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post #278 of 384
6/15/10 at 10:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

...Add $188 for upgrades from New Egg

Seagate Momentus 7200.4 500GB 7200RPM 2.5" SATA $79
Crucial 2x2GB kit for $109
...

This is one of those rare instances where the Apple memory upgrade to 4GB makes sense ($100 vs the $109 NewEgg memory).

Ironic, given that they've finally made a field upgrade of the memory SIMMs a simple task and not minor surgery. [shrug]

On another note, does anyone want to buy a collection of sanded-sharp putty knives? LOL!

  Google Maps: ("Directions may be inaccurate, incomplete, dangerous, or prohibited.")

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MC700LL/A MD481LL/A MD644LL/A MD388LL/A

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  Google Maps: ("Directions may be inaccurate, incomplete, dangerous, or prohibited.")

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MC700LL/A MD481LL/A MD644LL/A MD388LL/A

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post #279 of 384
6/16/10 at 1:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

So you think your handwaving somehow negates reality?

There are documented cases supporting what I said - RAM in one case and capacitors in another.

Most importantly, the proof is in the pudding. It really doesn't matter if it's the CPU or RAM latency or capacitor tolerances or power supply stability or motherboard (both power supply and motherboard are unique to Apple, btw) reliability. Apple has better reliability than other vendors. Period. End of discussion.

His hand waving negates your warped reality.

'Knows nothing' about computers.

Eh? Why? Because 'Pompous Man' says so?

The overclockers example is one of hundreds of possible (er...choice...something I know nothing about because I know nothing about 'computers'....sacred knowledge that only 'Pompous' Man knows...) examples that blow the Mini out the water on value for money. From the same site. 6 core tower add any gpu that will blow away anything Apple has for less than 2,300 quid.

Period? You're on one if you think a mini represents good value at £650. An eye watering biscuit tin.

Lemon Bon Bon.
You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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post #280 of 384
6/16/10 at 1:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Of course you want to end the discussion because clearly you don't have a clue what I am talking about. If you did then you could put up a solid debate, which clearly you can't.

There are many tier 2 and tier 3 vendors that have far better reliability then Apple. At a lower cost.

Apple in 2008 and 2009 still scored the highest with a 9.2, 16% of their hardware needed repairs on average. Companies like Asus had an 8.8 rating, hardly a bad rating. Asus while getting a lower score then Apple had only an 6% product repair, Sony was right next to Apple with 18%. Toshiba had a 13% repair ratio.

So blind loyality to Apple doesn't equal better numbers. They just simply have a cult like following.

Skater has a point. 'Blind loyalty' to Apple because they do 'some' things well doesn't negate criticism of their desktop policy. Which is and has been crrrrrrrrrrrrrap for some time. Nicely designed boxes with underperforming parts.

The rest of their hardware in laptops and phones/pads is ok. But their desktop line up is retarded, as are the prices, as are the gpus, as are the vram amounts as are the prices (I said that once, yeah?)

You can go to overclockers and get a six core system for under a k. You just know that such a system from Apple is going to start at 2k for their 'pro' because, apparently, it's a 'wooooo' 'workstation'. (But without any of the workstation parts, yeah? Oh. The Xeon. A quad core. For 2k. Yeah. Bad ass workstation part...along with the bad ass consumer gpu and flacid penile ram.)

Apple. Like the iPhone 4. The laptops are decent.

The dekstops and the price hikes over the last year or so in recession smack of arrogance and greed.

Lemon Bon Bon.
You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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