Apple releases redesigned Mac mini with HDMI port starting at $699 - Page 8

Perfect quote for Apple's desktop line and the 'cutting' edge parts that go in them.

Lemon Bon Bon.

*Hand waves. iMac owner. Don't have to make up the fact that I had to buy 'last year's' model a year ago (which makes mine two year old...) That it had a core duo in it when it should have been a quad core. And I didn't buy the 'upgraded' iMac at the time because it was a side grade with a Radeon 4850 in the very top end only with a massive price hike. Or the fact that you have to spend £1500 (about) to get a quad core system with with the same gpu that was on the previous generation when 6 core systems are under a grand NOW on the PC side...with a 'choice' of gpu cards that each have 1 gig of vram.

You don't have to 'make things up.'

There are flakey PCs. But Windows is better than ever. And I don't see my friend's rig falling over. The cases are better and the OS is better than ever.

Sure, Apple has the edge. But not in terms of desktop parts they don't.

Their lead is consigned to the OS and the design. That's it.

They don't lead in ram, cpus or gpus.

Lemon Bon Bon.

Or price. Unless you count having the biggest price for the smallest spec as 'victory.'

Lemon Bon Bon.

http://store.apple.com/us $ 699
http://store.apple.com/de Eur 809

? Wait a minute. WTF?

WTF is right. Apple's international pricing has always been stupid at best. I am sure by the time they release it in India it will be close to 1000USD. The rest of the desktop and laptop manufacturers don't have this disconnect with US pricing.

I love how you people just grab the sale price, maybe to a conversion to same currency, but then don't factor a single thing into the additional charges one country might impose over another. No Eco 101 these days?

You can't use repair ratios to determine reliability of disparate product categories.

Look at it this way, people who are buying a $400 computer are less likely to have it repaired than someone who dropped $2000 on a computer. Between Apple and other vendors Apple makes it easy to get a repair completed for free and easily so I'm very quick to recommend to users or myself to call up Apple and send my Mac in if needed or go to an Apple Store.

If you have to spend money to ship it to the vendor and the turn around in 6 weeks (I wish that were only hyperbole) then you are less likely to send it in.

On top of that, better products with a longer life cycle are more likely need repair (which include routine maintenance under the guise of repair) than one whose useful life cycle is short, like when you have a $400 notebook v. $2k notebook.

A sub category of the last point is the usage factor within a set timeframe which may be increased. I see more people with iPhones than any other phone yet I know "other" phones exist on the market. People tend to find them more useful for more things so they are using them more than the dumb phones sitting in pockets or purses.

Sure, we're talking about PCs not mobile phones, but I've seen the same trend with PC-to-Mac switchers. The "I don't use my computer much" and "i only check my email and look up stuff on the internet" argument tends to dissolve rather quickly after someone gets their first Mac. I think this also holds true for being a good PC over a cheap PC.

That is a nice machine, actually. 1333mhz RAM, and the 4850 1GB can handle all the latest games at almost-highest settings with about 2x or 4x antialiasing at 1920x1080p. Everything else being kept equal, bump the 250 to 320GB of hard disk and drop in a ATI 5850 1GB and you've got a solid gaming beast.

But don't expect a powerful GPU from Apple. Gaming on the Mac? Well, at least Valve is trying. But the Source engine is pretty efficient and not as demanding as the newer titles.

I shan't say more because apparently my recent post history shows I'm anti-Apple now. Apparently, Lemon, you've become *more* anti-Apple. I understand your frustration. I find it a bit weird, but I'm leaning towards understanding more of what you and extremeskater are saying even though 1 year ago I would have argued against it.

BUT THOSE DAMNED PC CASES ARE SO BLOODY UGLY... GEEZ. Also, no great new games that tickle my fancy, not after the epic that was Mass Effect 2 I finished a few months ago.

The fairy tale of Apple getting better components has to end. Sure, it's sad when we learn there's no Santa Claus...

Those two minor areas... oh, wait¡

So is your recommendation that Apple use anti-competitive measures to keep other vendors from getting new components, who sell much less volume than Apple for a given moderate to high-end model?

I can't imagine what other alternative Apple has based on their current business model. They can't get a first batches of a new CPU like Dell and HP can and then advertise a brand new or update BTO model. They dominate the upper-teir of the market. That means they need to have sufficient product for their machines and they can't do that when Intel et al. haven't geared up production. The argument that Dell and HP sell a lot more product than Apple is irrelevant because almost all of them are with old tech that is high volume.

Are you in the camp that Apple should have gone with Core-i3 and Intel HD in all their current C2D models?

You mean like the fact that a number of countries have good consumer protection laws and Apple must increase the price to cater for the additional costs that they must handle to repair items for free outside the normal warranty?

MANY additional costs.
- As you've indicated, warranty costs are higher due to different laws
- VAT included
- Import duties
- Higher employee costs in most European countries
- Higher overhead costs due to taxes, etc


Then don't friggin' buy one.

I'm glad you're happy buying bucket shop computers. It's not the same thing by ANY stretch of the imagination. I bet you'd say a Yugo is identical BMW because it has the same number of doors, seats the same number of people, and both have one steering wheel, too.


Not that mindless survey again.

1. It was done by a warranty company and has no validity outside their customer base.
2. If you had a problem with a $300 Asus netbook and a $2500 MacBook Pro, which one are you more likely to take the time to have repaired?

Asus' rating was so high because a huge percentage of their computers were so cheap that people throw them out if they're more than 6 months old and have a problem. It's really sad that people like you are still considering that to have any meaning at all.

Why not look at the surveys done by groups that actually measure REAL reliability?

US: Does not include sales tax.
EU: Includes VAT.

Why do you guys go on and on about the VAT, people know this is included, why you you think still people complain about the price after taxes are taken off.

And why do you always concentrate on Europe when people complain about the price differences.

I don't live in Europe, and before sales taxes the mini is US$100 more expensive.

No import duties here for computers
Apple has no local sales staff at all here, yet the Mini costs the same from Apple as it does from a local reseller
And no additional taxes for Apple to handle, all their online sales are handled from a neighbouring country, they will pay taxes on importing the item, but as they are a business they are able to claim them back.

The shipping costs will be very minimal, so the only thing left for that US$100 is to protect themselves from product failure cases that can be claimed for 3-5 years after purchase.

They have no local staff so that must mean they don't offer any warranty or have no warranty costs¡

I'm not surprised you never considered that they have to pay more for the warranty because they are outsourcing all repairs to a 3rd-party in a country that does very low volume compared to, say, that country you love to despise.

Well, I see you're up to your old tricks again. Let's review:

1. You're always wrong.

2. You're not as smart as you think you are.

3. See 1.

Others having reduced your argument to a tiny heap of rubble, nothing more needs to be said.

Well, that's entirely possible. AppleCare for the Mini is $149, which includes 2 additional years of hardware warranty, plus an addition 2.75 years of technical support. If local laws require specific hardware warranty policy then that has to be built into the price. Not sure why that would generate outrage or surprise.

When have I brought France up? Or is this one of your usual tricks where you just make things up again?

Yes they out source the repairs, but that also means they are not doing them themselves, ie the cost goes from having to pay an Apple employee to do something, to paying someone else to do it, and the reason you outsource is because it has a benefit, usually financial.

I'm not suprised, and I'm not outraged, I was just asking why someone was generalising, and giving the same tired excuse for pricing differences.

So are we all agreed now that it's not some evil plot by Apple to screw the rest of the world?

Sorry, I can't speak for the rest of the world...

But I think the new Mac Mini is much better value for money than the 1.42GHz PPC one that I got when they first come out.

LOL.

And we can see you are up to your old tricks again, if you can even call them tricks. Yet again saying alot of nothing because you don't even know what we are talking about to give an educated answer.

Damn you are getting as bad as mouse which is saying something. Well that isn't true at least you attempt to say something.

What I quoted isn't a survey they are actual stats taken each year on repairs and customer satisfaction which by the way you brought up. If your going to say Apple has the highest then clearly you must have looked at some stats didn't you?

Which Apple is rated the highest by customers year after year, we all know this but that doesn't mean they have the lowest rate of repair which would get back to our debate concerning hardware.

Apple uses good hardware but its not different then any other hardware that any tier 1 or tier 2 builder would use. When you start talking about companies like Velocity Micro which is on par price wise with Apple you will find they use a much higher level of hardware because they build systems for gamers.

Lets look at it this way for a 17" MBP you could spend 3000.00, do you know what kind of 17" high end notebook you can get for 3k on the Windows side? I mean come on.

I do believe Apple exceeds the rest when it comes to hardware like the iPhone, iPad, and iPod, without a doubt, but not when it comes to their notebooks or AIO. Even more so when you put them up against a quality company which I would agree with ou Dell is not one.

Who said they were minor? Mr. Sulky face?

Oh, I see, you were being sarcastic because you didn't like me being critical of Apple's 'crap components' on the desktop.

Sorry, I forgot...we're not allowed to do free speech on here...unless its Soli's free speech and opnions that we are agreeing with...

*Nods...

Let's give it a try, shall we?

'The Mac Mini, with integrated craapics, sorry, 'great' graphics, and speed melting, up to date Core 2 Duo with a massive 2 gigs of ram and a speedy 7200rpm hard drive make this mini the best yet...despite being only slighly more expensive! The best, most competitive desktop you can get under a 1000K using only the very best components packed into a design smaller than a biscuit tin!'

I suppose if I try it with lubricant it will be easier to take...because it sure felt rough...saying it.

Lemon Bon Bon.

Heh. So overclockers sell 'bucket shop' computers? Re-hi-hee-heally?

S'funny, my mate's PC is still going almost 3 years later. Great case. 'Decent' OS.

'Friggin'?

Who said anything about me buying a mini? Do I look insane? 'Here's £650 for a cutting edge desktop...'

Don't answer that.

Lemon Bon Bon.

Are You sure?

store,apple.com/us
MBook $ 999 / MBP $ 1199 / iMac $ 1199
store,apple.com/de
MBook Eur 1015 / MBP Eur 1166 / iMac Eur 1115

sales tax / Vat / that goes just with a Mac mini? Bullshit.

Did you even read what I wrote? Or what that survey says?

It's a survey done by a third party warranty service and measures ONLY THEIR CUSTOMERS. Furthermore, it's a biased survey because it only reports on the number brought in for repair. If you have a 1 year old Asus netbook that was $300 new and is probably worth $50 today are you going to take it in for repair? Now, if you have a $3,000 MBP that is still worth over $2,000 and something breaks are you going to take it in? Obviously, the percentage of computers brought in for repair is NOT equal to the percentage of defects.

Go to Consumer Reports. Or PC World. Or PC Magazine. Or CNET. Or Fortune. Or any of the other dozens of magazines that do real surveys indicating the percentage of failures. The Mac is always at or near the top of the reliability list. Always.


Oooohhhh. 3 years. That must be a really fine computer.

Heck, the fact that you consider a 3 year old computer to be representative of quality proves my point as well as any thing.

And, yes, Overclockers is a bucket shop compared to Apple or Toshiba or any of the other quality vendors.

Dunno. Strategy seems to be charge more with each update.

While offering 'old tech' that you claim their competitors use. So Apple doesn't?

What do you call the Core 2 duo in the mini and iMac? Old? New?

What do you call the GPU in the Mac 'pro' old? New?

Oh. The question. Are you suggesting that I suggest something that you agree with?

Lemon Bon Bon.

Yep plus the first time someone pointed that out to me earlier in this thread I said it's also likely either an attempt by Apple to differentiate the server product further or else they figure the difference between 5400 and 7200 for a single user isn't a huge deal (which it isn't), but if it's acting as a server for 4 or 5 people hitting it simultaneously, the difference in speed would be more noticeable.


Reports are saying that several gaming companies are adding Mac divsions, so we could well see an increase in how many games released come to the Mac as well. It would be nice if Apple was ready for it.

As far as cases, yes a lot of them are ugly as hell. I like my NZXT Hush
http://www.nzxt.com/new/products/classic_series/hu001 . Padding and foam inside to help absorb noise and keep things quiet, it has the one blue LED in front, but that's it. No case window with several other LEDs showing off the inside of the case or anything. We actually ordered 2 of them when we built mine and moved my wife's HP system into it since she needed a new power supply for the vcard I was buying her and it wouldn't fit in the HP case.



Speaking for myself, I would like to have seen Apple move away from c2d and IGPs, but the i3 isn't really an improvement over the c2d, especially if it means losing the Nvidia igp and using an Intel one. i5 and discrete GPUs are what should be aimed for as minimums, IMO.


Here in Kentucky sales tax is just 6%, so that still only makes $740.94. All these systems are being shipped from China, we know increased shipping prices aren't the cause of the price difference.

Does the German version include VAT?

The US one doesn't include sales tax in the advertised price, it's added at the time the sale is completed. (Sales tax is almost never included in a US advertised price. Partly because each state sets is own sales tax and some states don't have a sales tax at all, choosing to take our money in other ways.)

If you have a problem with the VAT vs no sales tax pricing, take that up with your government, not Apple. That VAT percentage you guys pay is just plain whacked!

Ok, again:

store,apple.com/us
MBook $ 999 / MBP $ 1199 / iMac $ 1199
store,apple.com/de
MBook Eur 1015 / MBP Eur 1166 / iMac Eur 1115

and there we go with a new Mac mini :

http://store.apple.com/us $ 699
http://store.apple.com/de Eur 809

See the difference? No? Forget it.

Ok, it has HDMI. But where does it say, that this Mac can playback iTunes HD Content. So far, Macs were not allowed to. Only AppleTV.

The bottom line is, Apple originally created the mini to be a "cheap" Mac that would draw in buyers who would otherwise not look at a Mac for a desktop computer. It no longer serves that purpose. It's not cheap enough.

Does anyone use the Mac mini to play EVE-Online? How well does the game play on the Mac? Does it look as nice on an HDTV as it does on a computer monitor?

It looks like we are getting ripped off for the MacBook, MBP, and iMac here in the US! LOL!

Have you considered the economy at the time of release?

We certainly are factoring in the additional costs. You do need to realize that all computer manufactures including Alienware have a base in India. No one has a price tag that is as skewed as Apple when you compare it with the US prices.

haha I'm lucky I live in a place where most Apple products are cheaper than they are in the US... or anywhere else in the world, for that matter...

And iPhones are unlocked, too.

But we still haven't got iPads.

New Mac Mini - HK$5588, HK$7988 --> US$721, US$1031 NO TAXES.

Pretty much the only places you can get Apple products cheaper are those five states with no sales tax.

Actually I was even thinking about Apple related butterfly effect on the Mac mini release day. We are Your friends.