Apple releases redesigned Mac mini with HDMI port starting at $699 - Page 3

I can assure you, as someone who has had experience in metal fabrication and manufacturing, that the cost of the enclosure and associated miniaturization completely eclipses the cost of shipping for a product like this. By orders of magnitude.

I think the stubborn is you. Its a smaller machine compared to the old, the old didn't had space for a blue ray drive. This mac Mini got CNC treatment that I think it is the reason it got expensive. Either way you can always buy an external blue ray. OWC has them and they come bundled with Toast that supports burning and all the goodies related.

You are only bitching out without been rational

What part of 'Mini' don't you get? The desktop Macs are iMacs and Mac Pros.

Let's go through the process:

Apple evaluates all the options out there. They could build a computer in a cardboard box. They could build the legendary midi-Mac. They could build a Mini with BD. They could build a Mac Pro with 8 six-core processors. And so on.

Now, based on their 30 years of experience and best marketing skills in the industry, they have chosen a product range. This range was selected as being their evaluation of what would yield them the greatest profits by satisfying the largest number of customers. They've demonstrated an uncanny ability to do this - at least based on results over the last 5 years or so.

They don't offer the specific item you want - whether it's BD or larger box or more RAM or cheaper price or whatever. Too bad. It's not going to happen. Obviously, Apple thinks that the number of people wanting (and willing to pay for ) what you are requesting is not large enough to make it worthwhile. Until you can demonstrate that your abilities to succeed in this industry are greater than Apple's, JUST STOP THE WHINING.

http://www.lyricsdomain.com/18/rolli..._you_want.html

Didn't saw a post about the drives... but could be interesting to see if removing the super drive on the regular model will let you add the second drive... could be nice to have a second drive internally for bootcamp like you can do on a Mac Pro. I have other macs so I could share the super drive from one of those if needed or boot the mini as target and install anything I want that way..
What you think about that?

The footprint is the same because it can stand on end.

And stop being racist about off-shore call centres, they speak English, often a lot better than the natives do.

And Dell's reliability isn't that poor, you really need to stop exaggerating. It's not as if Apple's products don't fail, you only need to look back at the major failures there have been.

Wow that's pretty, but seems way over-priced for what you get. Only 2gb of RAM??

What the hell is wrong with the price?

In 2 or 3 days I'll have a new mini server with 2 drives and APPLE SOFTWARE!

Too expensive - ballderdash - and other, more appropriate, expletives

CNC machining dude, that is not cheap.. even on great numbers

It's not a bad premium either - it's only 28% more expensive than the original $499 Mac Mini when you take five years of inflation into account - even with the deflation included last years. It's around a total of 9% between 2005 and 2010.

But it is above that $500 barrier, and above the $600 barrier too. Could they have created a low-end variant to hit the $600 price point - slower CPU, no FW800, etc?


It's (the IR sensor) embedded in the drive bay, notice the gap to the right of the disc.

You're looking at the wrong place. It's that black hole on the right side of the disc that's actually not the hole, it's the IR receiver. So clever. Damn, 2 others beat me to it. Way too slow

if you check PC prices than it's about the same. Expect to pay at least $650 for a PC with a graphics card not made by Intel that is close to what you get in the new Mini.

all the cheapo $500 PC's that everyone talks about all have Intel graphics

And the easier it is to hide within your luggage from a flight back from the US.

I recall reading that they use a special connector for the SuperDrive in the Mac Mini. I have no idea if that is correct or was ever correct, but OptiBay offers a solution for the older Mac Minis. I have to assume they will be getting this machine immediately and offer a solution on their site this week if it's a straight drop in.

http://store.mcetech.com/Merchant2/m...=STORHDOPTIBAY

Let me just say that the SD card slot on the back is nice, but inconvenient. My use case for SD cards is to pop them out of a camera, into a reader, import into iPhoto, pop out, put back in camera. Hiding the slot on the back side, possibly covered with cables, reduces its usefulness.

I also agree that the new mini is a gorgeous looking chunk of aluminum, but I also share the concern that the price is a bit high. Except for the server version. These things'll make great little servers to rack mount or for a small business.

- Jasen.

You know, in numerous other threads we've been in complete agreement. But this is a sore point for me because, yes, I would personally like to upgrade my living room to Blu-ray at some point, and Apple has come so close to offering One Box To Rule Them All. I simply cannot stand having a table top full of remotes - that is a gigantic design failure on behalf of the CE industry. I dislike cable clutter as much as any purist Apple product designer. I want in integrated software interface that deals with all mainstream media types equally well.

What I don't agree with here is the post-facto rationalization that Apple has made the best product for this category. I'm an Apple user since 1984, and have owned probably three dozen Macs since then (including secondhand). But I don't think that every product decision from Apple has been a success. The Apple TV is one such example, and while it might be partially the problem of the studios who have completely screwed content licensing, there's no reason that Apple couldn't have offered a model with a BD option. There's the short-lived Apple HiFi (anyone remember that one?) There's the missed opportunity with NetFlix for Mac OS where Microsoft grabbed the ring instead with SilverLight. There's the fact that the iPhone remote app doesn't control Front Row, which seems like a pretty big oversight. There's Quicktime X putting the controls inside the window, obscuring the image you're trying to watch.

So no, I don't agree that Apple knows what they're doing in the living room, which is a huge shame because, again, they are so close! Meanwhile, the hated Microsoft, of all people, has probably sold more Xboxes and Media Servers (or whatever they're called) than Apple has sold Minis, Apple TVs, etc. combined. Do we really want to see Microsoft win the living room because of Apple's ideological hardware purity and botched efforts?

There's a lot to like from Apple. A tremendous amount, but I'm not in agreement that the new Mini is the best package that they could have offered, and certainly not for this price.

I'm just amazed this thing came about without one leaked photo, half assembled case, or whatever reaching the press. It is only a mini, but still, when was the last time you went to Apple's homepage and saw a product completely new and unexpected?

There's a lot of hand-wrining out ther about the price increase, and how the "entry-level" is now too high for many. I'm not so sure that market exists as it once did. Apple's moved beyond needing to have a low end hook to lure Windows users into their stores... Mac's pretty much sell themselves these days, and aren't the goofy one off laptop with the glowing logo in a sea of Dells... If you need proof of that go to any airport, library or coffee shop.

I don't think Apple sees this as the hook anymore... Rather it's now a niche machine (as it always was) for those who don't want a laptop and don't like the bulk of the iMac. This is a full featured Mac that is completely unobtrusive. Does it cost more than its PC Equivalent (if one existed)? Yep. Do MacBooks cost more than other laptops... Yep. Do Mac pro's cost more... You get the idea. People have been bitching about the cost of Apple's hardware since day one. Apple seems to be doing pretty well for themselves regardless of our thoughts. I for one think this thing is a damn engineering marvel like most of Apple's products these days. Looking at the old Mini I now use for a home server, it suddenly looks old and out of place in Apple's line up. Yesterday, I didn't give it a second thought. Still though, it's been the most rock solid little computer I've ever had, it's little G4 processor serving the needs of three daughters and now the entire family.

I like the new mini, price tag and all... Will I be getting one? Probably not anytime soon, but I'd certainly think no less anyone who did. And let's not miss the fact here that this is the first Mac with full HDMI output (although the last MacBook revision did kind of back it in of the DisplayPort). It's probably a safe bet to assume the next iMac refresh will include HDMI, and that the MacBook pros (space permitting) will most likely be sporting them soon, if not the enhanced DisplayPort of their lower priced cousin.

No, AppleTV still available. Mac mini and AppleTV ... the misfit toys

Nope, apparently nothing changed. (besides Mac mini and iPhone preorder(?))

Unless I am completely off base here, the price increase is more a function of our failing, devalued currency than proof of a vindictive Apple. Expect all future product intros to reflect the plummeting value of the dollar in the pricing.

I suspect this topic has been covered hundreds of times on this forum. The belief / hope/ bet (take your pick) by Steve Jobs is that now or in the near future HD movies will be so readily available to rent or buy over the net that no one would drive to a store to buy or rent a DVD of any size shape or color. I am not expressing my opinion one way or the other here, simply explaining Apple's reasoning for not including BR in any Macs. It's a brave man that bets against SJ's batting average in predicting obsolete hardware ahead of the also ran hardware manufacturers. This list is quite large of past, correct decisions.

It's inconvenient if you have the Mini tucked away, but seriously, this isn't like reaching around the back of a Dell Optiplex sitting under your desk. If the Mini's sitting on the desk in front of you, the slot's pretty easy to access... Front or back. The SD slot is above all cable ports near it, so I don't think it will get too covered up. Is it a bit of form over function... yes, but what else is new?

It says it supports multichannel audio output over HDMI in Apple's specs.
You should use brain before mouth.

Regardless... 96k is an idiotic spec, you'll never actually hear the difference the marketing has convinced you of. You're obviously a home user if this is such a 'required feature', however beyond the pure pointless nature of the sampling rate/frequency combo mentioned, I'd also like to hip you to the fact that if you want to sound all 'audio pro' remember the following:

1. As a digital audio connection, HDMI is not the optimum choice, even digital rca coaxial is more reliable, the big boys use optical or even better AES/EBU.
2. If you want to flaunt specs, try 192kHz/24bit - otherwise remember you are a 'mid-sumer stereo customer', best not to try acting all macho in public.
3. Listen more carefully to study music more effectively, if you're missing something in 44.1kHz/16bit 'CD-quality' audio, it might not be a fidelity problem.

Thought provoking comment about the Xbox sales v. Mac Mini and AppleTV but I can't really say it's relevant to your argument. The AppleTV is still the best interface for media center appliance. It's lacking but so does the Xbox which also has no Blu-ray and has only gotten features the AppleTV came out with in 2007 as a way of catching up and competing with the PS3 which also focused more on being a connected media appliance.

I don't think the Mac Mini at the previous or original price make it a great HTPC. Even if it had HDMI from the start and had BackRow over the anemic and rotting FrontRow. It's $500 for a waste of a PC, IMO. I think something running A4 with the Imagination chip to decode 1080p in an even smaller package for under $150 would be ideal to connect the user to their home network and the internet.

I don't think adding a Blu-ray to it is the way to go. If you want that then the PS3 seems ideal. It has a pretty slick interface, too, and play .m2ts files and other containers and codecs that Apple would never allow.



LOL I was just discussing that. We heard of a new Mini with HDMI, but I think that is about it. Apparently they can still keep some leaks at bay.

LOL... what counts as "something" besides a new phone and a new Mac?

Nice call, that's a clever design. I wouldn't have seen it unless shown it, or viewing it in person.

You're right. I guess it's an easy conclusion to jump to when it's not mentioned and the white MacBook reputedly doesn't have it anymore. The IR port is pretty subtle on the


How well is their video business going? Apple hasn't mentioned their sales figures for video in years that I have found.


It seems to me that the mini's optical drive could have been dropped and the SD placed in front. I think the convenience and speed of SD would have made the extra expense of an SD card worthwhile.

You mean if they did a payment plan? That is essentially how the iPhone is payed for. Technically the iPhone costs about the same as the Mac Mini.

It's not racist to state that support for most computer vendors is overseas - and many of them speak very poor English (yes, there are exceptions).

And I'm not exaggerating on the quality of Dell's reliability. Every single survey shows Apple reliability to be on top. Dell is almost always FAR below.

You can choose to buy quality or you can choose to buy cheap. Just don't complain if quality isn't cheap.

With the last Mini update they introduced the Mac Mini Server - acknowledging that people had been using them for that. Now they have given it a beautiful case (suitable for the living room) and an HDMI port - acknowledging that people have been using them for HTPCs.

I think it's unique to the Mini that they look at what people are doing with them and adapt the unit, whereas with other Macs they seem to have more of a "vision" which they impose on the customer. Or at least, the adaptation isn't so obvious.

The original poster, Mobius, was simply stating his/her opinion. It was entirely reasonable for them to have done so. But every time that you see anyone do something like this, offering a reasoned, informed criticism of some product, there will also be some creep like jragosta, who evidently clings vicariously to this product for the semblance of some personal self-worth, who will come along and slap the original poster upside the head, for not good reason.

jragosta, if you disagree with what Mobious wrote, it is reasonable for you to say so, but only as long as you keep the tone polite and civil. But I have seen people like you react the way that you did, so many times on so many forums, that I am way past the point of being tired of it. If Mobious had in any way singled you out individually and insulted you, then and only then would the tone and content of your response have been appropriate. You have not shed a modicum of light on the question of the relative value of the new Mini.

You sure? Because that's rarely the case on Apple fan sites.

You can reason out anything. Even when you're downright wrong.

Who's the one making personal attacks, here? Obviously, it's you, not me. Just read your post above.

My point is very simple. People are whining that it's too small or too big or too expensive or missing features or any one of 1,000 other whining complaints. These forums are filled with these kinds of whining posts over and over and over again.

Do they really think that Apple is too stupid to have considered putting BD into a computer? If so, that's an inane position. If not, then Apple has made their decision for some reason - and Apple undoubtedly knows more about their reasoning than some whiner on AI. These people are so self-centered that they believe that their wishes should somehow take precedence over Apple's R&D and market research. Sorry, but THAT is very tiring.

If they think they can do better, they should go out and start their own computer company. Otherwise, please spare us the whining.

The Mini is the small utility version of a truck Steve referred to. I don't need extra video cards. I don't need 4 hard drives. The server model is exactly right for me. I don't burn many DVDs and for $100 the USB version works fine. 8 GB of ram is plenty for the development work I do. I don't do really high end photoshop or huge video. I can still choose my own monitor and keyboard and mouse. I actually still like a kensington large trackball. I don't want a glossy screen. The entry level is now iPad.

Apple is NOT moving away from Mac OS for us. Stop being ridiculous. The iOS is entry level and for the masses. There will always be an operating system like OS X to program the content. C'mon.

Apple went the exact wrong direction with this update. Barely increase its capability, charge $100 more and give people less reason to buy it. Yeah, that's real great. Oh, and god forbid you want something more powerful than the base model.

Base: 2.4GHz, 2GB RAM, 320GB hdd $699
Upgrades: 2.66GHz, 8GB RAM, 500GB hdd $1449

Throw on AppleCare and that upgraded one will run you $1600 for old tech. I built a more powerful PC 2 1/2 years ago for $1500, including buying a new monitor. I much rather would have seen a slight size increase and see Apple move the product line to i5 or better across the board.

Miniaturization, as pointed out, reduces costs. Not just in shipping, but manufacturing. That's why your CPU is manufactured on a smaller fab than previous CPUs; lower bill of materials.
Less aluminum, less PCB, etc means less cost to produce. Think what a tower with the same specs would cost. $399? Mac minis don't ship with the MS tax, either; they ship with the considerably higher Apple tax, now.

I like the engineering, but the price is far too high for an entry level machine that sports an obsolete CPU and integrated graphics. I don't think there's enough Kool-Aid drinkers out there to keep this one afloat.

I agree that throwing a Mac Mini at the task is overkill, but so far Apple TV has likewise been underkill. (I got a refurb Mini for $500 for this task, and for $200 more than the Apple TV it has performed quite well and completely side-stepped the limited format issue that has constrained Apple TV. Plus, it can play DVDs, those pesky discs that we'll be stuck with for another decade until decent broadband becomes a reality.)

It seems that there would be a market for an Apple product that accomplishes the following:

1) Plays every form of Apple-supplied content.
2) Plays Netflix instant-play content.
3) Plays YouTube, Hulu, other internet-based content.
4) Plays BD discs.
5) Can be completely controlled using any touch iDevice
5a) Comes with a better bundled remote for out-of-the-box operation.
6) Supports HDMI, DisplayPort, optical audio out
7) Serves as an iPhone/iPod dock
8) Integrate seamlessly with a separate --and entirely optional-- iTunes package that turns a full-funtion Mac into a centralized home media library.

(There are probably a few other items, and Roughly Drafted has likewise offered suggestions in the past.)

These are not fantasy specs -Apple already offers most of this already, and the rest is software. Offer this for $300 without a BD drive, $500 with. Do this, and no one will talk of using a Mini as a media device again.

Miniaturization reduces SOME costs, but increases others.

For example, how much is a mobile CPU vs a desktop CPU at the same clock speed? How much is a tiny form factor optical drive vs a larger desktop drive.

The Mini has been specially engineered to meet the size target. That requires the use of laptop components which are more expensive than their desktop equivalents.

I love the 'Apple tax is higher than the MS tax' argument. Why not do some research on how much a server license with unlimited clients costs from Apple vs Microsoft. It's $499 for Apple and quite a few times higher for Microsoft. Heck, Apple will give you an unlimited client license server INCLUDING HARDWARE for less than Microsoft charges for just the software.

Or look at upgrade prices. A full version upgrade of Mac OS X is $129 or 5 licenses for $199. How much is the equivalent for Windows Ultimate?

Apple tax, indeed.

Higher component costs likely justify such a price.

UK starting price is horrific. £649 base model is way overpriced. Once you spec it up to a reasonable 4GB RAM and bigger hard drive you're into refurbished iMac territory. A Mac Mini at this price makes no sense other than as an upsell to a better system. It's certainly lost it's appeal as a cheap alternative desktop Mac. To this prospective Mac Mini buyer anyhow...

The RAM mark-up is a discrace!!!
Ok, $500 extra for 8 gigs of RAM? That's almost 72% of the entire computer's cost just in RAM. "F"-that! I'm so glad you can access the RAM yourself. Otherwise this would be a no-deal for me. When my POS Dell kicks it (or when i'm tired replacing memory chips because of faulty hardware) i'm getting this little baby. I'm so glad i waited to buy this 2 years ago, this update is HUGE!