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$100 increase for Apple's redesigned Mac mini seen as disappointment - Page 5

post #161 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

You're looking at it completely wrong. First of all what you described was divergence, not convergence. Convergence would be a Mac mini with an Apple TV UI (or an iOS emulator, if Apple TV gains iOS) replacing Front Row, but still running full OSX. Essentially you'd have macs with an Apple TV mode that was easily accessible. I could see something like that coming in 10.7. What I could not see happening is the Mac Mini being split (diverging) into two computing lines, with one of them solely dedicated to media playback, running iOS on hardware that can't even support it (natively). All for what amounts to a minimal discount from a full fledged computing platform. That seems like an even worse strategy than the current Apple TV.

Lets look at this another way. The 16GB iPad costs $499 and is capable of playing back anything in the iTunes store. Take out some of the largest and most expensive components (the screen and the battery) and add a TV UI and you have a tiny, capable, and cheap set top box that absolutely sips power (it can run off USB power).

A revamped Apple TV will spawn from iPhone/iPad hardware if it's running iOS. There is no need for any of the Mac Mini hardware to show up in a new Apple TV, and if iPad hardware is used, there would be a ton of empty space in a case with the same footprint as mac mini or current apple TV. The Mini isn't supplementing Apple TV in that form factor, it is replacing it. Apple TV is likely destined for much bigger things (by becoming smaller and cheaper).

I think we're both going in the same direction with our predictions, just from different starting points. I'm coming from top down, you from the bottom up.

In think we're both at the idea that aTV will be something like the iPad but as a set-top box. I don't think there's anything wrong with either of our arguements. The point i was trying to make was that the new mac mini, seems to be incorporating more and more aspects of the aTV. And, the aTV now is sort-of being shelfed at it's current state.

what this says to me is that they are either
1. getting ready for a complete re-vamp of the aTV, or...
2. getting ready to dump the aTV and create a new class of iDevice like an iHome/iTV/iWhathaveyou, or...
3. going to eventually created a sub-set of the Mac Mini as a HTPC

All these ideas get to a point where, im not even sure Apple knows where its going, we have some kind of home server or media center.
post #162 of 272
Is it me or have all the Mac prices gone up? At least in the UK anyway. The iMacs still seem to be relatively the same spec as the one I got a couple of years ago but around £200 more. That's got to be the only time in history you could have bought a PC and it go up in value!

The price of the new Mac Mini though is just ridiculous, compared to a Dell which I know isn't small and looks ugly (personally I would always pay extra for nice design, hence I have an iMac). You can get a Dell around £75 less with a better processor (are Apple the only one's still using Core 2 Duo's?), 3 times the amount of memory, over 3 times hard disk space, and 3 times the memory on graphics. I would probably pay an extra £100 for a similar spec machine to have it look really nice like this does, but Apply have just gone out of this world on this one.
post #163 of 272
It seems that apple really does not want to sell these things. Each time they make the product better and more comparable to other offerings on the market, the higher the price gets. People will keep choosing iMac over mac mini. Wished the price would go down $50 or so to help sell more.

Then again apple is making a sick killing with the iDevices, so i guess they don't really care how many macs they sell any more.
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post #164 of 272
Price increase? What price increase?

Take a new mini and take the memory up to 4 GB to take the price to $859 here in Canada. My current mini, bought last fall cost me roughly $899. Yes it has a 2.53Ghz processor, rather than the new configuration's 2.4 Ghz processor. But with a much faster GPU, the new configuration would likely run circles around my version.

In other words, for $40 less I can now get a better all around performer, the elimination of the power brick, an HDMI port, an SD reader, and easier memory access.

The bests news for me personally is that rumours of the Mini's demise were greatly exaggerated. Clearly if Apple went to the trouble of setting up a new form factor with integrated power supply, there are no plans right now to kill off the Mini. My plan is to buy a new Mini every two to three years because Minis are great at holding their value and when you renew every two or three years you get a new OS, the latest iLife, a faster machine, a new hard drive, and all for a very reasonable price. If my last upgrade is anything to go by, in a year or two I'll be able to trade up to a new Mini for less than $500 Cdn. For a software upgrade and new hard drive alone that's not really so bad. I don't think it's farfetched to expect that two years from now the Mini will have even better graphics and moved ahead from the Core 2 Duo. Memory will go up and there might even be Blu-ray available. Not that it matters if Blu-Ray is missing because I'm going PS3 soon enough, not to mention standalone Blu-Ray players are now dirt cheap. If Blu-Ray flourishes an external drive would be easy and cheap to add.

Making snap judgements without looking closely at what Apple has done is what causes folks from the PC side to misjudge the true value of a well-designed Apple product.
post #165 of 272
"... one prominent Wall Street analyst said he believes is somewhat disappointing."

Why is this analyst being paid? What kind of Idiotic statement is that? Do us all a favor ... either write credible responsible analysis or keep your mouth shut.
post #166 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Also, the "Mac Mini" you are asking for isn't a Mini at all, except in the sense that what you really want is a cheaper, "mini" Mac Pro, which there are no signs on the horizon that I'm aware of that we will be seeing anytime soon, if ever.

Well when they introduced the Mac Mini it was significantly smaller than every other desktop computer they have, thus it was a mini by comparison. The larger dimensions I mentioned are STILL smaller than all the other desktops, other than the current Mini. I've even said on these boards before that I seriously doubt they will ever actually release the XMac, but that doesn't mean I can't hope

There are gaming companies instituting Mac divisions again and Steam has been producing a lot of interest on the Mac platform. Apple will be foolish if they don't pay some attention to that. Yes the 320M is a better graphics card than the 9400M, but they're both inferior to curent DX11 parts. Heck, it has less than 1/3 the performance of an NVIDIA GTX 480M http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-...M.28701.0.html I'm not a big FPS person, but it would be nice to at least manage over 23fps in World of Warcraft on high. Dalaran is a bitch, especially if you're trying to run in high detail w/shadows on full, you need a bit of a buffer for your framerate so it doesn't turn into a slideshow.

Apple made changes to OS X to support more cores and to make better use of available power from graphics cards with Grand Central and Open CL, yet so much of the lineup is still on the C2D with no hyper threading. Quad core i5s with hyper threading turned on is 4 real and 4 virtual cores. Add in a good graphics card and the performance of OS X for pretty much everything should shoot up. This isn't limited to games either. Photoshop, Final Cut, Logic, Mathematica, all of these programs can benefit from more horsepower in the systems.
post #167 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

Well when they introduced the Mac Mini it was significantly smaller than every other desktop computer they have, thus it was a mini by comparison. The larger dimensions I mentioned are STILL smaller than all the other desktops, other than the current Mini. ...

I don't know, I think my iMac has a smaller footprint than a Mac Mini.
post #168 of 272
Well I can move the Apple TV up to the bonus room now, hello front row. Sitting on the couch, bluetooth keyboard and mouse in hand, surfing, emailing, creating movies on iMovies, slideshows on iPhoto, paying bills online, well maybe that won't be so great, but everything else is perfect.
post #169 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

Yes it has a 2.53Ghz processor, rather than the new configuration's 2.4 Ghz processor. But with a much faster GPU, the new configuration would likely run circles around my version.

Likely your benchmarks would look something like this: http://www.laptopmag.com/review/lapt...ode=benchmarks

Compares the base 13" MBP, which has the same processor speed, RAM and video card
post #170 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchelljd View Post


Also... for the $100 price increase, which is what this is... apple ought to have

1- HDMI (check)
2- Blu-Ray playback (not done) there are plenty of Superdrives which can read BD also.
3- Nvidia 330m chip (not done) this is a much better graphics chip than the 320m

After all these years & years & years & years....the same old complaint.

Apple ought to have done what?

In a market-driven economy, you have more power in your hands by NOT purchasing a product you don't like than you do by diluting a site like AI with complaints about what Apple should do. No offense intended. It's possible you might be the sort of fellow who would be better off building a hackintosh....something I recommend to anyone disappointed with Apple's desktop or laptop models.

fwiw: Wu is a total knob. Such a fence-sitter in his analysis. What is it Wu, is it the most significant update to the product, or is it disappointing? Maybe it's just a significantly mediocre update, or insignificantly significant, or....or...


edit: How does the new Mini compare to Dell's Inspiron Zino HD?
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post #171 of 272
This is ridiculous. Apple is playing with fire with these ridiculous price points.
They would have been better off leaving the form factor alone and instead just improving the graphics and CPU Speeds and keeping the price the same.
Who needs it to be even smaller anyway? Having the Drive so low to the desk is not an improvement, IMO.
post #172 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, it's not often I'm accused of that. Thought I'd fly it as a trial balloon, see how it goes.

I hope you aren't too discouraged with the results.
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post #173 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I hope you aren't too discouraged with the results.

Still waiting for the numbers from the west coast, but, so far, results seem mixed.
post #174 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I think we're both going in the same direction with our predictions, just from different starting points. I'm coming from top down, you from the bottom up.

In think we're both at the idea that aTV will be something like the iPad but as a set-top box. I don't think there's anything wrong with either of our arguements. The point i was trying to make was that the new mac mini, seems to be incorporating more and more aspects of the aTV. And, the aTV now is sort-of being shelfed at it's current state.

what this says to me is that they are either
1. getting ready for a complete re-vamp of the aTV, or...
2. getting ready to dump the aTV and create a new class of iDevice like an iHome/iTV/iWhathaveyou, or...
3. going to eventually created a sub-set of the Mac Mini as a HTPC

All these ideas get to a point where, im not even sure Apple knows where its going, we have some kind of home server or media center.

I've bolded the portion I disagree with. You had said that you expected Apple to take a Mac mini, remove the superdrive, lower the top, and slap iOS on there instead of OSX and that would become the new Apple TV (by a different name). That just makes zero sense to me, a mac is not a mac without OSX, and there are better and cheaper hardware options for iOS than mac hardware.

I see 3 possibilities for Apple TV outside of leaving it as is or discontinuing it:

1. Apple TV is integrated into OSX, taking the place of front row and giving all macs the potential to function like Apple TV (including a shorter mini without the superdrive, like you described, if they made it).
2. Apple TV revamped, running iOS on iPad hardware.
3. Both 1 & 2.
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post #175 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

Price increase? What price increase?

Take a new mini and take the memory up to 4 GB to take the price to $859 here in Canada. My current mini, bought last fall cost me roughly $899. Yes it has a 2.53Ghz processor, rather than the new configuration's 2.4 Ghz processor. But with a much faster GPU, the new configuration would likely run circles around my version.

In other words, for $40 less I can now get a better all around performer, the elimination of the power brick, an HDMI port, an SD reader, and easier memory access.

Exactly. Watching people whine about how they wanted Apple to magically fit a quad-core in that tiny (gorgeous, by the way) little box, or how they wanted discrete graphics (something NO low-cost LOW-FOOTPRINT computer has, BTFW) or yadda yadda. Mr. Lemon Bon Bon is the worst of them all, I nearly punched the screen when I saw how much cr@p someone who's not supposed to be a troll can spill.

Some people think unibody cases and HDMI licenses are free... Oh well...

Quote:
Making snap judgements without looking closely at what Apple has done is what causes folks from the PC side to misjudge the true value of a well-designed Apple product.

What's more ironic is how other PCs fare against the new OH-SO-EXPENSIVE Mac Mini. I just went to the Dell Online Store and built a C2D Studio Hybrid, which is, in my view, the only fair comparison since it's also a compact computer with low energy consumption that uses notebook parts. Here is what it has.

Intel C2D 2.1GHz, 800MHz FSB and 3Mb cache
4GB of 667MHz DDR2 RAM
A 320GB 5200rpm HD
Intel GMA X3100

So you get a slower processor with slower FSB. But you get 4Gb! Yay? NAY! IT'S FREAKING DD2 RAM WITH HALF THE FSB OF MAC MINI'S! THIS is what you should be complaining about.

Oh and what's THIS! The new Mini's GPU is twice as fast as a 9400M! Which is 1.5x times as fast as the X3100. [sarcasm] Wow, the Mini's integrated GPU SUCKKKKKS [/sarcasm]

The price? With Windows 7 ultimate? $839

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post #176 of 272
Does anyone know if the new Mac Mini has soldered cpu or if it is in a socket? I bought a refurbed Core Solo mac mini and popped in a a high power core2duo a few years back. The previous mac mini had a soldered cpu; wondering if that changed at all.
post #177 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

edit: How does the new Mini compare to Dell's Inspiron Zino HD?

That's a quite funny comparision, since the Zino's top processor doesn't even brek the 2GHz barrier

For $630 you get

A 1.8GHz Athlon with 800MHz and 1Mb cache (33% lower clock, 20% lower FSB, only a third of the cache)
2Gb of 800MHz DDR2 RAM (Older AND slower RAM)
The same 320Gb HD
And Old ATI Radeon HD 4330 (it may be "discrete", but it is still worse than the 320M)
A fugly plastic case
Windows 7 Ultimate

Notice I always put up Windows 7 Ultimate when I do such comparisons. Mac OS X has ONE version with all features, so it should be compared to the one Windows version that also has every feature.

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post #178 of 272
Fascinating.

This guy (WU) cannot either design or write code for a computer. He has a job, working for a company (voluntary servitude). He does not own a company and likely has no plans to try.

But he can criticize anything.

Let's call things by their real name. He is not an "analyst". He is a "critic".

No one has ever erected a statue to a critic.
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post #179 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Say what you will, i respect that. But i don't think it's any coincidence that the aTV and Mac Mini keep getting closer and closer to converging into a HTPC product.

The Apple TV is already too expensive, making it double that price creates an even bigger problem. The secret to Apple TV being a success or not is whether Apple can get a TV Show Subscription deal ironed out or not with the studios. By offering people a subscription they can tie people into a contract and subsidize the product making it cheaper and also 'actually worth buying'.

As it stands this buying-per-show and paying a lump sum for the device would only work out in cuckoo-land.

Making the Apple TV $499 is a bad idea. It's a terrible idea.
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post #180 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldandintheway View Post

Well I can move the Apple TV up to the bonus room now, hello front row. Sitting on the couch, bluetooth keyboard and mouse in hand, surfing, emailing, creating movies on iMovies, slideshows on iPhoto, paying bills online, well maybe that won't be so great, but everything else is perfect.

Front Row hasn't been updated since November of 2007; the interface is lame and far too primitive compared to Apple TV's, which has continuously evolved and gained features.
post #181 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky King View Post

No one has ever erected a statue to a critic.



Not that Shaw Wu is a critic. He is still an analyst, whether you agree with his views or not.
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post #182 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

What, Apple should cheapen up their stuff just to make the investors happy? I just recently threw away my Flowerpower imac after almost years. NO VIRUS, NO BREAK DOWNS NOTHING. It just got old and started to naturally break down. Speakers didn't work, ejection mechanism was sometimes working and it couldn't be upgrades to the latest OS.
You get what you pay for with Mac and the price is worth it. Macs keep their value. The price point? No big deal. I'll pay the price as long as I can receive the best user experience. Period.

Finally, someone that understands cost = purchase price - selling price. Apple computers, no matter their price, cost less than any other major manufacturer. Period.
post #183 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post



Not that Shaw Wu is a critic. He is still an analyst, whether you agree with his views or not.

Talking of which.....have you noticed the spread (market cap) between aapl and msft narrowing? And, does anyone have a feel for the 4% hike in msft share gain today? (compared to Apple's 2% hike).
post #184 of 272
quite simply, apple isn't a POS computer maker, and doesn't or isn't going to compete with that low end crap. It seems the others can fight over that dwindling market. Dell can keep trying to flog their underpowered POS boxes for 399 you can toss out the door in a couple years if they want.

A much cooler mini with hdmi for 100 bucks more? I'm getting one for the living room tv.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #185 of 272
Apple Store price for a Mac mini, 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 500 GB hard drive, Apple Magic Mouse, Apple Wireless Keyboard: $1,037.

Apple Store price for a 21.5 inch iMac with 3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 500GB Serial ATA Drive, NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) and User's Guide, 8x double-layer SuperDrive, Apple Magic Mouse: $1,199.

The mini has a NVIDIA GeForce 320M instead of the older 9400M, but the iMac has a 21.5 inch, 1900 x 1080 display built in, for $162 more. And saves desktop space, since the display footprint is likely the same when you hook a display up to the mini. Even if you have a display, mouse and keyboard, I think I would get an iMac. Unless you are hooking it up to an HDTV in your living room.
iMac, MacBook Air, Mac mini
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post #186 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

I
The original purpose of the Mini was to have an inexpensive Mac to help induce switchers. Clearly that is less of a concern for them these days.

That job is now relegated to the the iPad (500 dollars, like the original mac mini...) and the iPhone. Suck you into the ecosystem through the gadgets. Seems to be working. So they are selling the Mac Mini as a desktop computer replacement, or gadget?
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post #187 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcoma View Post

Talking of which.....have you noticed the spread (market cap) between aapl and msft narrowing? And, does anyone have a feel for the 4% hike in msft share gain today? (compared to Apple's 2% hike).

Talk about your nonsequituer response. Actually, no -- I try to follow more meaningful things.
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post #188 of 272
HELP!

I have to pay the extra $100.00, having ordered a Mini Server yesterday,
can I please entreat one of our generous members to purchase 2/5ths of an APPL share?
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post #189 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by prw View Post

Apple Store price for a Mac mini, 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 500 GB hard drive, Apple Magic Mouse, Apple Wireless Keyboard: $1,037.

Apple Store price for a 21.5 inch iMac with 3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 500GB Serial ATA Drive, NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) and User's Guide, 8x double-layer SuperDrive, Apple Magic Mouse: $1,199.

The mini has a NVIDIA GeForce 320M instead of the older 9400M, but the iMac has a 21.5 inch, 1900 x 1080 display built in, for $162 more. And saves desktop space, since the display footprint is likely the same when you hook a display up to the mini. Even if you have a display, mouse and keyboard, I think I would get an iMac. Unless you are hooking it up to an HDTV in your living room.

And when you're computer breaks down, either you repair it or throw away a perfectly good monitor. As such you'd better be prepared to commit to more than 10 years use of the iMac, considering that's the lifespan of one of the most expensive components. This is why I'm using a 24" Cinema Display coupled with a Mini. Sure the initial cost compared to performance favours the iMac but three, five, seven years from now I'll be using a much more powerful next-gen Mini couple with the same display I purchased a few months ago. You might well still be running the iMac but you'll have spent about as much as I have in trading up every few years on account of hard drives burn out and software needs updating rather frequently if you want the latest and greatest.

That's the great flaw in the all-in-one form factor. you're combining a 10-year monitor with a five-year computer that can only remain current and running optimally if you sinks hundreds into maintenance and software updates. If you spend an average of let's say $30 a year to maintain the latest OS and you drop $100 every two years on iLife (Cdn. prices), in six years you'd be looking at $480 in software alone. Add in at least one hard drive and that's another $150 or so. So looked at for a six-year cycle, the iMac isn't the deal it appears to be initially.

Going the Mini route with a trade every three years coupled with a Cinema Display is costlier on balance than opting for the iMac but if you're like me, taking the wraps off a new machine every few years is an activity I rather like. That's not practical of me, I know, but life's short and sometimes you just want to do stuff that makes you happy. I wouldn't want to be using a seven-year-old iMac in 2017.
post #190 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Talk about your nonsequituer response. Actually, no -- I try to follow more meaningful things.

you really are an insulting curmudgeon.

ps "non sequiter"
post #191 of 272
I love the new design, especially no need for the damn putty knives, although it still seems over-engineered. Access to the RAM looks very easy but I really wanted better access to the HDD. I'll have to wait for the ifixit guys to get on it to see if it's as simple as unscrewing the visible screws under the rubber base.

I'm disappointed with the price hike, especially with no 7200 rpm drive and still 2GB RAM. If it was even 250GB 7200RPM and 4GB RAM, it would be much better as that's pretty much what the old one cost after upgrading. It's not so much a price hike as just eliminating the lowest model but it still pushes the entry point up and out of some people's reach.

Having to live with another slow Core 2 Duo isn't great either. There's not much they can do as Intel haven't made affordable quad mobile chips and desktop quads like the i5 and i7 need much bigger PSUs than they'd get into a Mini shell but a 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo option would have been nice for just $100 more. You can buy a quad i5 2.66GHz PC tower for the same price as the dual 2.4GHz Mini so poor CPU performance per dollar.

At least the 320M makes up for it somewhat and I'm very pleased to see it in the Mini - probably the first time the mini has exceeded the iMac spec. Taking off a USB port wasn't very nice though, I was using that extra port.

It's great they put the PSU inside - hopefully that doesn't heat it up too much - as that external brick went against the Mini's small size.

Overall, I was (as Forstall would put it) blown away by the update but the price hike really put a damper on the whole thing for me. Add in the iPhone price hike too and it's just plain depressing. Ah well, since the only Mini you can buy is so expensive now, maybe I'll get a better price for my old one.

It's just so tiring seeing Apple raising prices in this economy. People have little enough money as it is without raising the entry prices so they have to do without or end up spending more than they can afford and end up struggling to pay off the debt. I could believe that the build costs are higher but they have so much cash reserves right now, is it too much to expect them to cut consumers a little slack?

Even if they sell 3 million Minis in a year, $100 off each one is a measly $300 million. To a company with over $30 billion, it's nothing because they are still growing the profits, just by $300m less but the lower price means more sales and some of that $300m gets made up from the extra sales.
post #192 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

Exactly. Watching people whine about how they wanted Apple to magically fit a quad-core in that tiny (gorgeous, by the way) little box, or how they wanted discrete graphics (something NO low-cost LOW-FOOTPRINT computer has, BTFW) or yadda yadda. Mr. Lemon Bon Bon is the worst of them all, I nearly punched the screen when I saw how much cr@p someone who's not supposed to be a troll can spill.

Some people think unibody cases and HDMI licenses are free... Oh well...



What's more ironic is how other PCs fare against the new OH-SO-EXPENSIVE Mac Mini. I just went to the Dell Online Store and built a C2D Studio Hybrid, which is, in my view, the only fair comparison since it's also a compact computer with low energy consumption that uses notebook parts. Here is what it has.

Intel C2D 2.1GHz, 800MHz FSB and 3Mb cache
4GB of 667MHz DDR2 RAM
A 320GB 5200rpm HD
Intel GMA X3100

So you get a slower processor with slower FSB. But you get 4Gb! Yay? NAY! IT'S FREAKING DD2 RAM WITH HALF THE FSB OF MAC MINI'S! THIS is what you should be complaining about.

Oh and what's THIS! The new Mini's GPU is twice as fast as a 9400M! Which is 1.5x times as fast as the X3100. [sarcasm] Wow, the Mini's integrated GPU SUCKKKKKS [/sarcasm]

The price? With Windows 7 ultimate? $839

Thanks for the info and the coloring. If they are still using the Intel GMA X3100 it's clear they are just letting that product rot so I am not sure it's a great comparison option. Though I don't have a better one to offer right now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcoma View Post

Talking of which.....have you noticed the spread (market cap) between aapl and msft narrowing? And, does anyone have a feel for the 4% hike in msft share gain today? (compared to Apple's 2% hike).

Barely above $3B at this point. I think they were about $6B ahead the day after they overtook MSFT's position.

However, the trends I'm seeing will have AAPL at $300 share this summer, another record quarter and MSFT not really moving with their stock. It also looks Apple may beat RiM at per unit sales these next two quarters and Apple is getting close to exceeding MS' quarterly revenue.

On top of that, I also think that XOM could be less than 6 months away from losing it's title to AAPL.

None of these really mean much but they are milestones and impressive in their own right when you consider what an underdog Apple was just a few years ago and how many times they were told to pack it up because there was no way they success. We can start with Gates and Dell's comments about Jobs coming back to Apple.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #193 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcoma View Post

you really are an insulting curmudgeon.

ps "non sequiter"

A puerile response
May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
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May the Blue Bird of Happiness leave a deposit with you and yours.
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post #194 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Stop talking sense. That'll never work.

That's for multi-quote Dave. (...and his 'multi-functional' doorstop.) *I don't know why I'm 'whining'...it's not like people *do* that when a machine has gone from well under £400 from the PPC days to £645 in these Intel days.

*whoop, it's had it's crappy integrated crappics replaced...for (gasps*) more integrated crappics... *whoo...

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #195 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I love the new design, especially no need for the damn putty knives, although it still seems over-engineered. Access to the RAM looks very easy but I really wanted better access to the HDD. I'll have to wait for the ifixit guys to get on it to see if it's as simple as unscrewing the visible screws under the rubber base.

I'm disappointed with the price hike, especially with no 7200 rpm drive and still 2GB RAM. If it was even 250GB 7200RPM and 4GB RAM, it would be much better as that's pretty much what the old one cost after upgrading. It's not so much a price hike as just eliminating the lowest model but it still pushes the entry point up and out of some people's reach.

Having to live with another slow Core 2 Duo isn't great either. There's not much they can do as Intel haven't made affordable quad mobile chips and desktop quads like the i5 and i7 need much bigger PSUs than they'd get into a Mini shell but a 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo option would have been nice for just $100 more. You can buy a quad i5 2.66GHz PC tower for the same price as the dual 2.4GHz Mini so poor CPU performance per dollar.

At least the 320M makes up for it somewhat and I'm very pleased to see it in the Mini - probably the first time the mini has exceeded the iMac spec. Taking off a USB port wasn't very nice though, I was using that extra port.

It's great they put the PSU inside - hopefully that doesn't heat it up too much - as that external brick went against the Mini's small size.

Overall, I was (as Forstall would put it) blown away by the update but the price hike really put a damper on the whole thing for me. Add in the iPhone price hike too and it's just plain depressing. Ah well, since the only Mini you can buy is so expensive now, maybe I'll get a better price for my old one.

It's just so tiring seeing Apple raising prices in this economy. People have little enough money as it is without raising the entry prices so they have to do without or end up spending more than they can afford and end up struggling to pay off the debt. I could believe that the build costs are higher but they have so much cash reserves right now, is it too much to expect them to cut consumers a little slack?

Even if they sell 3 million Minis in a year, $100 off each one is a measly $300 million. To a company with over $30 billion, it's nothing because they are still growing the profits, just by $300m less but the lower price means more sales and some of that $300m gets made up from the extra sales.

'Blown away by the update.'

Me too. :/ *Jaw swings loosely in the breeze...

Lemon Bon Bon

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #196 of 272
Quote:
It's just so tiring seeing Apple raising prices in this economy. People have little enough money as it is without raising the entry prices so they have to do without or end up spending more than they can afford and end up struggling to pay off the debt. I could believe that the build costs are higher but they have so much cash reserves right now, is it too much to expect them to cut consumers a little slack?

Humanitarian tech' company that crosses teh boundaries of liberal prices and glacial tech' updates on their desktops.

'Tiring'. No kidding.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #197 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcoma View Post

you really are an insulting curmudgeon.

ps "non sequiter"

As in, does not follow from the previous statement.

If you're trying to insult me you will have to try harder.

PS: non sequitur
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
Reply
post #198 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

As in, does not follow from the previous statement.

If you're trying to insult me you will have to try harder.

PS: non sequitur

"curmudgeon |kərˈməjən|
noun
a bad-tempered or surly person."

*hmmm.

'You're surly!'

'You're bad-tempered.'

Hmmm.*

I suppose the fancy way of saying it makes it sound better than it actually is.

A bit like the price on the 'new' Mac mini. If we price it higher...then it's got to be a better computer, right?

*I can just hear Apple marketing now.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #199 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I love the new design, especially no need for the damn putty knives, although it still seems over-engineered. Access to the RAM looks very easy but I really wanted better access to the HDD. I'll have to wait for the ifixit guys to get on it to see if it's as simple as unscrewing the visible screws under the rubber base.

I'm disappointed with the price hike, especially with no 7200 rpm drive and still 2GB RAM. If it was even 250GB 7200RPM and 4GB RAM, it would be much better as that's pretty much what the old one cost after upgrading. It's not so much a price hike as just eliminating the lowest model but it still pushes the entry point up and out of some people's reach.

Having to live with another slow Core 2 Duo isn't great either. There's not much they can do as Intel haven't made affordable quad mobile chips and desktop quads like the i5 and i7 need much bigger PSUs than they'd get into a Mini shell but a 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo option would have been nice for just $100 more. You can buy a quad i5 2.66GHz PC tower for the same price as the dual 2.4GHz Mini so poor CPU performance per dollar.

At least the 320M makes up for it somewhat and I'm very pleased to see it in the Mini - probably the first time the mini has exceeded the iMac spec. Taking off a USB port wasn't very nice though, I was using that extra port.

It's great they put the PSU inside - hopefully that doesn't heat it up too much - as that external brick went against the Mini's small size.

Overall, I was (as Forstall would put it) blown away by the update but the price hike really put a damper on the whole thing for me. Add in the iPhone price hike too and it's just plain depressing. Ah well, since the only Mini you can buy is so expensive now, maybe I'll get a better price for my old one.

It's just so tiring seeing Apple raising prices in this economy. People have little enough money as it is without raising the entry prices so they have to do without or end up spending more than they can afford and end up struggling to pay off the debt. I could believe that the build costs are higher but they have so much cash reserves right now, is it too much to expect them to cut consumers a little slack?

Even if they sell 3 million Minis in a year, $100 off each one is a measly $300 million. To a company with over $30 billion, it's nothing because they are still growing the profits, just by $300m less but the lower price means more sales and some of that $300m gets made up from the extra sales.


Marvin, I mentioned this earlier but I would have liked to see Apple adopt those new hybrid drives. For many users that would have resulted in a noticeable performance improvement.

From a cost standpoint they look like a tremendous bang for the buck and are kinda perfect for a machine like the mini, and iMac as well.
post #200 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

It's just so tiring seeing Apple raising prices in this economy. People have little enough money as it is without raising the entry prices so they have to do without or end up spending more than they can afford and end up struggling to pay off the debt. I could believe that the build costs are higher but they have so much cash reserves right now, is it too much to expect them to cut consumers a little slack?

That has to be the funniest rational for lower pricing I have ever heard. That is as bad as saying that Apple is largely responsible for putting the world in debt by building great products.
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