$100 increase for Apple's redesigned Mac mini seen as disappointment - Page 5

Originally Posted by cmf2

You're looking at it completely wrong. First of all what you described was divergence, not convergence. Convergence would be a Mac mini with an Apple TV UI (or an iOS emulator, if Apple TV gains iOS) replacing Front Row, but still running full OSX. Essentially you'd have macs with an Apple TV mode that was easily accessible. I could see something like that coming in 10.7. What I could not see happening is the Mac Mini being split (diverging) into two computing lines, with one of them solely dedicated to media playback, running iOS on hardware that can't even support it (natively). All for what amounts to a minimal discount from a full fledged computing platform. That seems like an even worse strategy than the current Apple TV.

Lets look at this another way. The 16GB iPad costs $499 and is capable of playing back anything in the iTunes store. Take out some of the largest and most expensive components (the screen and the battery) and add a TV UI and you have a tiny, capable, and cheap set top box that absolutely sips power (it can run off USB power).

A revamped Apple TV will spawn from iPhone/iPad hardware if it's running iOS. There is no need for any of the Mac Mini hardware to show up in a new Apple TV, and if iPad hardware is used, there would be a ton of empty space in a case with the same footprint as mac mini or current apple TV. The Mini isn't supplementing Apple TV in that form factor, it is replacing it. Apple TV is likely destined for much bigger things (by becoming smaller and cheaper).

Originally Posted by anonymouse

Also, the "Mac Mini" you are asking for isn't a Mini at all, except in the sense that what you really want is a cheaper, "mini" Mac Pro, which there are no signs on the horizon that I'm aware of that we will be seeing anytime soon, if ever.

Originally Posted by SSquirrel

Well when they introduced the Mac Mini it was significantly smaller than every other desktop computer they have, thus it was a mini by comparison. The larger dimensions I mentioned are STILL smaller than all the other desktops, other than the current Mini. ...

Originally Posted by Carmissimo

Yes it has a 2.53Ghz processor, rather than the new configuration's 2.4 Ghz processor. But with a much faster GPU, the new configuration would likely run circles around my version.

Originally Posted by mitchelljd


Also... for the $100 price increase, which is what this is... apple ought to have

1- HDMI (check)
2- Blu-Ray playback (not done) there are plenty of Superdrives which can read BD also.
3- Nvidia 330m chip (not done) this is a much better graphics chip than the 320m

Originally Posted by anonymouse

Well, it's not often I'm accused of that. Thought I'd fly it as a trial balloon, see how it goes.

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

I hope you aren't too discouraged with the results.

Originally Posted by antkm1

I think we're both going in the same direction with our predictions, just from different starting points. I'm coming from top down, you from the bottom up.

In think we're both at the idea that aTV will be something like the iPad but as a set-top box. I don't think there's anything wrong with either of our arguements. The point i was trying to make was that the new mac mini, seems to be incorporating more and more aspects of the aTV. And, the aTV now is sort-of being shelfed at it's current state.

what this says to me is that they are either
1. getting ready for a complete re-vamp of the aTV, or...
2. getting ready to dump the aTV and create a new class of iDevice like an iHome/iTV/iWhathaveyou, or...
3. going to eventually created a sub-set of the Mac Mini as a HTPC

All these ideas get to a point where, im not even sure Apple knows where its going, we have some kind of home server or media center.

Originally Posted by Carmissimo

Price increase? What price increase?

Take a new mini and take the memory up to 4 GB to take the price to $859 here in Canada. My current mini, bought last fall cost me roughly $899. Yes it has a 2.53Ghz processor, rather than the new configuration's 2.4 Ghz processor. But with a much faster GPU, the new configuration would likely run circles around my version.

In other words, for $40 less I can now get a better all around performer, the elimination of the power brick, an HDMI port, an SD reader, and easier memory access.

Making snap judgements without looking closely at what Apple has done is what causes folks from the PC side to misjudge the true value of a well-designed Apple product.

Originally Posted by Carmissimo

edit: How does the new Mini compare to Dell's Inspiron Zino HD?

Originally Posted by antkm1

Say what you will, i respect that. But i don't think it's any coincidence that the aTV and Mac Mini keep getting closer and closer to converging into a HTPC product.

Originally Posted by Oldandintheway

Well I can move the Apple TV up to the bonus room now, hello front row. Sitting on the couch, bluetooth keyboard and mouse in hand, surfing, emailing, creating movies on iMovies, slideshows on iPhoto, paying bills online, well maybe that won't be so great, but everything else is perfect.

Originally Posted by Sky King

No one has ever erected a statue to a critic.

Originally Posted by maccherry

What, Apple should cheapen up their stuff just to make the investors happy? I just recently threw away my Flowerpower imac after almost years. NO VIRUS, NO BREAK DOWNS NOTHING. It just got old and started to naturally break down. Speakers didn't work, ejection mechanism was sometimes working and it couldn't be upgrades to the latest OS.
You get what you pay for with Mac and the price is worth it. Macs keep their value. The price point? No big deal. I'll pay the price as long as I can receive the best user experience. Period.

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss



Not that Shaw Wu is a critic. He is still an analyst, whether you agree with his views or not.

Originally Posted by SSquirrel

I
The original purpose of the Mini was to have an inexpensive Mac to help induce switchers. Clearly that is less of a concern for them these days.

Originally Posted by Narcoma

Talking of which.....have you noticed the spread (market cap) between aapl and msft narrowing? And, does anyone have a feel for the 4% hike in msft share gain today? (compared to Apple's 2% hike).

Originally Posted by prw

Apple Store price for a Mac mini, 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 500 GB hard drive, Apple Magic Mouse, Apple Wireless Keyboard: $1,037.

Apple Store price for a 21.5 inch iMac with 3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 500GB Serial ATA Drive, NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) and User's Guide, 8x double-layer SuperDrive, Apple Magic Mouse: $1,199.

The mini has a NVIDIA GeForce 320M instead of the older 9400M, but the iMac has a 21.5 inch, 1900 x 1080 display built in, for $162 more. And saves desktop space, since the display footprint is likely the same when you hook a display up to the mini. Even if you have a display, mouse and keyboard, I think I would get an iMac. Unless you are hooking it up to an HDTV in your living room.

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

Talk about your nonsequituer response. Actually, no -- I try to follow more meaningful things.

Originally Posted by Lukeskymac

Exactly. Watching people whine about how they wanted Apple to magically fit a quad-core in that tiny (gorgeous, by the way) little box, or how they wanted discrete graphics (something NO low-cost LOW-FOOTPRINT computer has, BTFW) or yadda yadda. Mr. Lemon Bon Bon is the worst of them all, I nearly punched the screen when I saw how much cr@p someone who's not supposed to be a troll can spill.

Some people think unibody cases and HDMI licenses are free... Oh well...



What's more ironic is how other PCs fare against the new OH-SO-EXPENSIVE Mac Mini. I just went to the Dell Online Store and built a C2D Studio Hybrid, which is, in my view, the only fair comparison since it's also a compact computer with low energy consumption that uses notebook parts. Here is what it has.

Intel C2D 2.1GHz, 800MHz FSB and 3Mb cache
4GB of 667MHz DDR2 RAM
A 320GB 5200rpm HD
Intel GMA X3100

So you get a slower processor with slower FSB. But you get 4Gb! Yay? NAY! IT'S FREAKING DD2 RAM WITH HALF THE FSB OF MAC MINI'S! THIS is what you should be complaining about.

Oh and what's THIS! The new Mini's GPU is twice as fast as a 9400M! Which is 1.5x times as fast as the X3100. [sarcasm] Wow, the Mini's integrated GPU SUCKKKKKS [/sarcasm]

The price? With Windows 7 ultimate? $839

Originally Posted by Narcoma

Talking of which.....have you noticed the spread (market cap) between aapl and msft narrowing? And, does anyone have a feel for the 4% hike in msft share gain today? (compared to Apple's 2% hike).

Originally Posted by Narcoma

you really are an insulting curmudgeon.

ps "non sequiter"

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

Stop talking sense. That'll never work.

Originally Posted by Marvin

I love the new design, especially no need for the damn putty knives, although it still seems over-engineered. Access to the RAM looks very easy but I really wanted better access to the HDD. I'll have to wait for the ifixit guys to get on it to see if it's as simple as unscrewing the visible screws under the rubber base.

I'm disappointed with the price hike, especially with no 7200 rpm drive and still 2GB RAM. If it was even 250GB 7200RPM and 4GB RAM, it would be much better as that's pretty much what the old one cost after upgrading. It's not so much a price hike as just eliminating the lowest model but it still pushes the entry point up and out of some people's reach.

Having to live with another slow Core 2 Duo isn't great either. There's not much they can do as Intel haven't made affordable quad mobile chips and desktop quads like the i5 and i7 need much bigger PSUs than they'd get into a Mini shell but a 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo option would have been nice for just $100 more. You can buy a quad i5 2.66GHz PC tower for the same price as the dual 2.4GHz Mini so poor CPU performance per dollar.

At least the 320M makes up for it somewhat and I'm very pleased to see it in the Mini - probably the first time the mini has exceeded the iMac spec. Taking off a USB port wasn't very nice though, I was using that extra port.

It's great they put the PSU inside - hopefully that doesn't heat it up too much - as that external brick went against the Mini's small size.

Overall, I was (as Forstall would put it) blown away by the update but the price hike really put a damper on the whole thing for me. Add in the iPhone price hike too and it's just plain depressing. Ah well, since the only Mini you can buy is so expensive now, maybe I'll get a better price for my old one.

It's just so tiring seeing Apple raising prices in this economy. People have little enough money as it is without raising the entry prices so they have to do without or end up spending more than they can afford and end up struggling to pay off the debt. I could believe that the build costs are higher but they have so much cash reserves right now, is it too much to expect them to cut consumers a little slack?

Even if they sell 3 million Minis in a year, $100 off each one is a measly $300 million. To a company with over $30 billion, it's nothing because they are still growing the profits, just by $300m less but the lower price means more sales and some of that $300m gets made up from the extra sales.

It's just so tiring seeing Apple raising prices in this economy. People have little enough money as it is without raising the entry prices so they have to do without or end up spending more than they can afford and end up struggling to pay off the debt. I could believe that the build costs are higher but they have so much cash reserves right now, is it too much to expect them to cut consumers a little slack?

Originally Posted by Narcoma

you really are an insulting curmudgeon.

ps "non sequiter"

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

As in, does not follow from the previous statement.

If you're trying to insult me you will have to try harder.

PS: non sequitur

Originally Posted by Marvin

I love the new design, especially no need for the damn putty knives, although it still seems over-engineered. Access to the RAM looks very easy but I really wanted better access to the HDD. I'll have to wait for the ifixit guys to get on it to see if it's as simple as unscrewing the visible screws under the rubber base.

I'm disappointed with the price hike, especially with no 7200 rpm drive and still 2GB RAM. If it was even 250GB 7200RPM and 4GB RAM, it would be much better as that's pretty much what the old one cost after upgrading. It's not so much a price hike as just eliminating the lowest model but it still pushes the entry point up and out of some people's reach.

Having to live with another slow Core 2 Duo isn't great either. There's not much they can do as Intel haven't made affordable quad mobile chips and desktop quads like the i5 and i7 need much bigger PSUs than they'd get into a Mini shell but a 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo option would have been nice for just $100 more. You can buy a quad i5 2.66GHz PC tower for the same price as the dual 2.4GHz Mini so poor CPU performance per dollar.

At least the 320M makes up for it somewhat and I'm very pleased to see it in the Mini - probably the first time the mini has exceeded the iMac spec. Taking off a USB port wasn't very nice though, I was using that extra port.

It's great they put the PSU inside - hopefully that doesn't heat it up too much - as that external brick went against the Mini's small size.

Overall, I was (as Forstall would put it) blown away by the update but the price hike really put a damper on the whole thing for me. Add in the iPhone price hike too and it's just plain depressing. Ah well, since the only Mini you can buy is so expensive now, maybe I'll get a better price for my old one.

It's just so tiring seeing Apple raising prices in this economy. People have little enough money as it is without raising the entry prices so they have to do without or end up spending more than they can afford and end up struggling to pay off the debt. I could believe that the build costs are higher but they have so much cash reserves right now, is it too much to expect them to cut consumers a little slack?

Even if they sell 3 million Minis in a year, $100 off each one is a measly $300 million. To a company with over $30 billion, it's nothing because they are still growing the profits, just by $300m less but the lower price means more sales and some of that $300m gets made up from the extra sales.

Originally Posted by Marvin

It's just so tiring seeing Apple raising prices in this economy. People have little enough money as it is without raising the entry prices so they have to do without or end up spending more than they can afford and end up struggling to pay off the debt. I could believe that the build costs are higher but they have so much cash reserves right now, is it too much to expect them to cut consumers a little slack?