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$100 increase for Apple's redesigned Mac mini seen as disappointment - Page 2

post #41 of 272
6/15/10 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

maybe i'm just the jerk that keeps hammering at dead horses, but where the hell is the IR port on the mini?

The "SQUARE".

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post #42 of 272
6/15/10 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

A 15 year flash in the pan. Buy-to-own digital movies are going nowhere fast. Apple needs to pull their head out of the sand.

...in case you missed the background - Blu-Ray drives are seeing much higher than average error rates, and are widely seen as an incremental upgrade to DVD. With other technology already queuing up to replace it - let me remind you of Steve Jobs comments at WWDC - that Apple always looks at and evaluates the forward value of a technology as they decide whether it should be included in their footprint. That being said, you can buy from a nice selection of external Blu-ray drives to attach to your computing device, which means that Apple doesn't have to install it in the case itself.

btw a "fifteen year flash-in-the-pan" constitutes a conflagration by any fire-fighting standards - so you may want to find another expression for a "temporary market anomaly spanning a decade and a half and a wide variety of devices producing unprecedented profitability and success for a previously pre-humously pronounced dead corporate entity".

Glad I could help you out there.

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post #43 of 272
6/15/10 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I've been pretty pissed about the price increase as well. But if you go to dell's website and price out a 50/50 comparable machine (the Dell Studio Hybrid) it prices out at $689.
2.2 Ghtz w/ 3MB cache, 2 gigs ram, SD slot, HDMI, etc. So even though i'm pissed abotu the price of this, it's competitive. I guess it all boils down to components.

It still is a little amazing that you couldn't get the price down to at least $499 at the entry level.

You were right the first time. It all boils down to being competitive. Apple knows what their competitors sell and for how much. The annoyance I'm hearing is that Apple isn't going to sell a cheaper, stripped-down model to go up against their competitors' cheaper stripped-down models. Anybody who is seriously surprised by that just hasn't been paying attention.
Please don't be insane.
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post #44 of 272
6/15/10 at 8:47am
[sarcasm ON]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 cents View Post

Clearly, Apple is a failure. They can't make ipads and iphones fast enough for demand. They can't please investors. I mean, just look at their stock price over the last 5 years. An abomination if ever I have seen one. They make the baby jesus cry.

The feds should investigate them and leave the good companies (BP, massey energy, etc alone). Those companies are doing such wonderful things. Also, I think the telecoms are doing a great job. I could not ask more of my cable or phone providers. The fact that I have one choice of semi-fast internet in my area and the price goes up for no reason every other month pleases me as a consumer and citizen. You're doing a heck of a job brownie! Meanwhile, apple puts out crap and more crap. I demand an investigation immediately.

[sarcasm OFF]

Much better.

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post #45 of 272
6/15/10 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

I just recently threw away my Flowerpower imac

Threw it away???



I recently SOLD mine, $80. Went in less than a day.
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post #46 of 272
6/15/10 at 8:48am
What should I get, a new Mac mini or 2 PS3 bundles?

Yes, that was a joke.

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post #47 of 272
6/15/10 at 8:49am
It's more expensive to make smaller computing devices. The Mini is much smaller than before especially considering the power supply is built-in. Hence the higher price.

IF you want pure Mhz/ram/hd then it's always cheaper to buy a plain old vanilla Windows box.

HDMI out timing is strange given Apple now passes audio/video through mini-display port and sell a 3rd party adapter to pass audio/video through to HDMI.
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post #48 of 272
6/15/10 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trip1ex View Post

HDMI out is strange given Apple now passes audio/video through mini-display port and sell a 3rd party adapter to pass them through to HDMI.

So you think that's handier than simply using an HDMI cable?

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post #49 of 272
6/15/10 at 8:53am
the CPU is not fast enough for HTPC. i don't need to browse the web on my TV, i need to be able to do some hard core trans coding......
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post #50 of 272
6/15/10 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenclaw View Post

I had resigned myself to wait for the new model and was ready to buy at introduction, specifically because I wanted the 320M.

I went to the store this morning and saw the price. Um, what? More expensive?

Then I went to the specs and saw 2GB as the base memory config, taking up both slots.

You have got to be kidding me.

Faster CPU, faster GPU, Unibody design, SD card slot, HDMI...worth $100 to me

If I want more RAM, I'll upgrade it myself for less than Apple charges.
Now it is also drop dead easy to DIY.
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post #51 of 272
6/15/10 at 8:56am
I agree very disappointing. It should also have had a blu-ray player.
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post #52 of 272
6/15/10 at 8:57am
Quote:
Sooooooo.... $700 for a (probably) foxconn motherboard in (the equivalent of) a laptop with no display or battery.

But, hey! That aluminum case sure is nifty!

Quote:
Same engineering and chips (just different board layout) as the current MBP 13".

Shame about the price. 800€ for the base model is ludicrous - that's iMac territory!

Quote:
Like others, I am very disappointed with the price. Particularly when I discovered it came with only 2gb of RAM. 4gb is a prudent minimum these days. It's great to see that they are trying to make user upgrades to the RAM possible, however.

Other things sort of piss me off, and it gets at the heart of all that is wrong with Jonathan Ive's designs. In so many ways the guy is brilliant, but increasingly we see the utter sacrifice of utility and purpose to esthetic considerations. To a degree which sharply goes against Ive's own stated design goals.

Perhaps the goofiest of all is the downward facing speakers on the iMac, guaranteed to sound absolutely awful. The speaker drivers should be facing the user, preferably at ear level height. This, of course, gets in the way of Apple's esthetics. Conclusion: usability and user experience are to be ruthless subjugated to esthetics.

And then there is the goofy issue of all the I/O ports on the iMac being on the back of the machine.

Think about it: what decent reason could there be to have the headphone jack on the BACK of the machine?

Or an SD card reader?

Particularly if you wanted to use this Mini as part of a home entertainment set up. Sure, it's nice to be able to pop in a memory card from your uncle's camera in order to see some pics. If you wish for that to be an option, mounting this in a shelf or rack is out of the question.

Far from regarding Apple's hardware as incredibly superior, I'm increasingly finding it to be the biggest liability. Generally speaking, the prices ARE too high. And far too often the hardware choices are too limited and very, very poorly designed with regards to practical considerations.

This newest Mac Mini should retail for $399. As should the 24" display which currently sells for $899.

some salient quotes from the web.
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post #53 of 272
6/15/10 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

If memory serves, you could be classified as anti-Apple based on your posting history.

Well, if you take my 3-month posting history, possibly. But take into account a few years of my postings...

That's so weird though, for me, to be considered anti-Apple. Wow. Seriously, it's weird. But, life is short, I gotta call it like I see it nowadays. My opinions are what they are.

Fair enough, maybe I am drifting to the "anti-Apple stance". I just hope my postings are still of value while letting me let off a bit of steam. As long as I don't write personal attacks, I think I'll be fine. This is, after all, Appleinsider.com NOT AppleLover.com
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post #54 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

You were right the first time. It all boils down to being competitive. Apple knows what their competitors sell and for how much. The annoyance I'm hearing is that Apple isn't going to sell a cheaper, stripped-down model to go up against their competitors' cheaper stripped-down models. Anybody who is seriously surprised by that just hasn't been paying attention.

Apple is not going to join in the "race to the bottom" and there are still plenty of sources for existing Mac mini's. The problem is many folks here want more features and power for less money - understandable, but perhaps unrealistic given Apple's track-record. This appears to be work on Apple's part to open up differentiation in their lines, pricing-wise, to perhaps allow for some expansion in their bridge category devices (iPad). And gentlegeeks here seem to forget that Apple always works to simplify their product lines, not make them more complex - which is why there is only ONE Macbook (with limited upgrades) for example. The cost/price-window on the low-end equipment is narrow, and the devices themselves tend to not be very forward-looking. This all works against the desires of the disillusioned herein.

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post #55 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

some salient quotes from the web.

I see you've been at Ars.

I think if they would have included those new hybrid Seagate drives and included 4 gbs of RAM then there would be value in this update, IMO.
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post #56 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

"Sooooooo.... $700 for a (probably) foxconn motherboard in (the equivalent of) a laptop with no display or battery. But, hey! That aluminum case sure is nifty!"

...some salient quotes from the web.

Thank you. A Fox(conn) by any other name, would smell... Wait, wha...
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post #57 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustReelFilms View Post

Mac Mini + iPad + Jaadu VNC = Remote display touchscreen. No need for wireless keyboard and mouse.

Add in plexapp or boxee and Airvideo for iPad = ultimate entertainment experience.

That's exactly what I did, but logmein rather than Jaadu. Either way, the iPad works for 90% of what I do when on the road, but when I need the other 10%, I just log into my Mini server.

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey4147 View Post

The one thing about the price increase that I don't understand is, why isn't the Server model an additional $100 more?

It's not. The previous server price was also $999. Given that it comes with unlimited client licenses, that's a very attractive price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Call me a troll, but sorry to say the design and engineering is brilliant but the component and assembly quality is significantly poorer compared to Macs from 3 to 6 years ago.

Sure, some will want me to quote "facts" and "statistics", but, well, truth will out.

IOW, your mind is made up, don't confuse you with the facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

And if the iPad wasn't a slave device that requires a computer, that would be a very viable solution.

The iPad doesn't require a computer for everyone. Some people would get by just fine with an iPad alone. The Apple store will set it up for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by universeman View Post

Who wants to own a movie when they're all available for streaming? One day. I have never understood why people would want to have racks of plastic discs in their living rooms.

I agree in principle, but only if all movies were available by streaming. Netflix brags a lot about their streaming, but it's actually relatively few movies that are available that way.
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post #58 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:04am
Regarding Blu Ray, can you not buy an external Blu Ray player and connect it to the USB on the Mac Mini? Thought I read someplace the software doesn't support it.

Say what you want about Blu Ray, the picture is gorgeous. Whether it becomes obsolete now or later, it should be a part of the home theatre for the present. At least until 3-D content becomes available.
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post #59 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trip1ex View Post

It's more expensive to make smaller computing devices. The Mini is much smaller than before especially considering the power supply is built-in. Hence the higher price.

IF you want pure Mhz/ram/hd then it's always cheaper to buy a plain old vanilla Windows box.

HDMI out timing is strange given Apple now passes audio/video through mini-display port and sell a 3rd party adapter to pass audio/video through to HDMI.

The saddest thing though is that the PC DIY market is full of these UGLY, UGLY, RIDICULOUS BEASTLY TOWERS, and smaller form factors are all not-that-attractive (compared to Apple, I guess) branded (Dell, HP, etc), non-DIY cases.
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post #60 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:05am
.....
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post #61 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:07am
The cube comes to memory. Excellently crafted pice of hardware. Setting new standards in designing desktops
and shrinking them to a nice size - but at the cost of affordability.

To my mind the cube failed because of it's price. I know Apple is selling it's products by quality and design,
but I think the Mini could be in danger to get priced outside of a sensible price range.

And a 16% price raise to update some of the internals to state of the art seems a bit high.
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post #62 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennish View Post

I can't believe they raised the price on the thing. Spec wise I don't feel it's justified. I have 2 Mac mini's an iPhone and a pile of Apple stock. I live in reality though, I'm not a fanboi. I'm not happy to see the Core 2 Duo still in there and why in heck did they put the SD slot in the back? The back is for stuff that gets plugged in once and stays that way. The slot should be in the front where it can be easily used.

Where in the specs do you factor in the new case and power supply? PC builders can pay anywhere between $20 and $800 on a case, without changing the specs of the computer at all.

It's not hard to understand that there is cost and value associated with the smaller machined aluminum case and the integrated power supply. Someone living in reality shouldn't expect such things for free. Furthermore, using an i5 would require a discrete graphics card or crappy intel integrated graphics. The SD card and power switch are on the back for aesthetic reasons, obviously. There is a tradeoff between ease of access and aesthetics (see the Dell Zino HD for the other extreme). You don't have to agree with the decisions Apple has made, nor do you have to purchase a mac that doesn't meet your expectations, but you should at least try to understand them.
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post #63 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by copeland View Post

The cube comes to memory. Excellently crafted pice of hardware. Setting new standards in designing desktops
and shrinking them to a nice size - but at the cost of affordability.

To my mind the cube failed because of it's price. I know Apple is selling it's products by quality and design,
but I think the Mini could be in danger to get priced outside of a sensible price range.

And a 16% price raise to update some of the internals to state of the art seems a bit high.

As pointed out earlier in this thread, the new mini's specs compare favorably to a similarly priced Dell.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #64 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by copeland View Post

The cube comes to memory. Excellently crafted pice of hardware. Setting new standards in designing desktops
and shrinking them to a nice size - but at the cost of affordability.

To my mind the cube failed because of it's price. I know Apple is selling it's products by quality and design,
but I think the Mini could be in danger to get priced outside of a sensible price range.

And a 16% price raise to update some of the internals to state of the art seems a bit high.

Since Walmart is now an Apple reseller - they will be offering this handsome piece of kit for 164USD less than retail price!

Besides Jony Ive has to be able to upgrade from brandy to fine 30yo cognac somehow...

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post #65 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I see you've been at Ars.

I was going to say the same thing. I'm Hagen on arstechnica and have been posting in that same thread.
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post #66 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

some salient quotes from the web.

Hadn't thought about it before, but yeah, the SD card slot being located on the back side is utterly ridiculous.
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post #67 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:20am
Nice design, looks like it would be a nice computer. (And yay for finally putting the power brick inside the machine) But for 700 dollars, definitely not worth it. What ever happened to our 500 dollar Mac Mini? I guess the current mini's have been selling like hot cakes.

And does the HDMI port mean they were listening to the whole "Mac Mini is an awesome HTPC"? If that were the case, then it should have gone back down to 500 dollars (and possibly added a BR drive... though I can somewhat excuse that)

I wonder if this means there is an aTV refresh in the wings?
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post #68 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:20am
Quote:
"I can tell you as one of the largest sellers of content on the internet to date - price it aggressively and go for volume," Jobs told the audience Wednesday at the D8 Conference...

Indeed, Jobs comments weren't about devices. But it's a MBP13" that's not only missing the screen, but $100 worth of RAM, as well. And a 10 hour battery. And a keyboard. And a mouse/touchpad.

Get real. I'm a raving fanboy myself, and quite an apologist. But this price is absurd.

another quote I liked.

Quote:
Putting Apple's price in perspective:

Let's see how absurdly expensive this latest Mini really is:

Properly outfitted it's $1,984.00.

Before tax.

That's what it costs when you add...

2gigs of RAM to get it up to merely 4gb (add $100.)

24" monitor ($899)

Apple remote (you do want this to be for a HTPC, right?) ($19)

Apple mouse ($49)

Apple keyboard ($69)

AppleCare (let's face it, Macs are seemingly designed to be completely unserviceable by anyone other than your local Genius Bar, so if you have any kind of problem at all, you're gonna get hosed hard on the price. The local Apple store wanted $350 to replace a hard drive that I purchased at BestBuy for $52) ($149)

$1,984. For a 2.4ghz computer with 320gb.

Absolutely absurd.

Never has building a Hackintosh seemed so sensible.

Bingo.
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post #69 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:21am
Somewhat disappointing?

Give me a break, I'd appreciate these worthless analysts more if they'd be HONEST.

This is pricing is an absolute joke. They finally make the Mac Mini a viable media center pc, and want at least $700 for it? WTF? So much for it being a "Switch to Mac" machine anymore. So much for it being worthwhile, at all.
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post #70 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Well, if you take my 3-month posting history, possibly. But take into account a few years of my postings...

That's so weird though, for me, to be considered anti-Apple. Wow. Seriously, it's weird. But, life is short, I gotta call it like I see it nowadays. My opinions are what they are.

Fair enough, maybe I am drifting to the "anti-Apple stance". I just hope my postings are still of value while letting me let off a bit of steam. As long as I don't write personal attacks, I think I'll be fine. This is, after all, Appleinsider.com NOT AppleLover.com

Perhaps I should have said "... based on some of your posting history."
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post #71 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

Apple is not going to join in the "race to the bottom" and there are still plenty of sources for existing Mac mini's. The problem is many folks here want more features and power for less money - understandable, but perhaps unrealistic given Apple's track-record.

Apple's recent track record with MacBook and MacBook Pro was more features and power for less money and hardly resulted in a "race to the bottom." Can't speak about the iMac, never paid much attention to that product.
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post #72 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:25am
Nice machine, too expensive. I know people get a hard-on about this subject, but after all the fuss SJs made about content being low priced and "go for volume" and the aggressive iPad pricing, it's dissapointing this thing didn't follow suit. The specs are actually weak for the price, given ION 2's aggressive pricing and nice form-factor.

I have the late 2009 Mac Mini and use it as a media center, but it's a mess because none of the media apps can play iTunes videos bought from the iTunes store, and Front Row is tragically lacking in funcitonality (you have to exit to view web videos, or YouTube). In other words, it can't actually be used as a media center, it's a desktop computer connected to a TV.

It pains me to say this (get your sick-bags ready) but Windows 7 based machines make better media centers...

Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
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Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
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post #73 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Perhaps I should have said "... based on some of your posting history."

No worries. You made me reflect for a while, actually.
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post #74 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by copeland View Post

The cube comes to memory. Excellently crafted pice of hardware. Setting new standards in designing desktops
and shrinking them to a nice size - but at the cost of affordability.

To my mind the cube failed because of it's price. I know Apple is selling it's products by quality and design,
but I think the Mini could be in danger to get priced outside of a sensible price range.

And a 16% price raise to update some of the internals to state of the art seems a bit high.


go to best buy and the cheapest PC with a graphics card similar to the Mini's is $650 or so. yes it has more RAM and HD space, but the mini uses laptop parts that are more expensive. Add in bluetooth, wifi and the software and the price is comparable.

did a config on HP's website using the cheapest decent graphics card and once you add in the wifi/bluetooth and bump it to Win 7 Ultimate to get some of the same software functionality the price goes up to $900. only difference is that HP will have i Core CPU's and more HD/RAM due to them being desktop parts.

the only cheap PC's that cost $300 - $500 are those with Intel graphics

the cheapest PC with HDMI and a graphics card like the Mini's is a Dell for $775. still a draw when you factor in the software on the Mini. Believe it or not, Apple has to pay licensing fees for things like HDMI ports

and the Mini is Energy Star qualified which means a lower cost of ownership
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post #75 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:44am
Well, it is cheaper and better than the old "better" model and having a HDMI port is a big plus. Mini DP remains to be a failure and nobody else is adopting it. Apple should put Mini-HDMI ports into the portables, the Mini-DP to Dual-Link DVI adapter is not working properly with most machines, so HD resolution has to be sufficient anyhow.

Now, if they would invest at least a little bit of work into FrontRow, or simply make an OS X version of the Apple TV software, I would buy one of these to replace an Apple TV in a heartbeat. But I am not spending 800 EUR for a machine, if I then have to run a GUI disaster like Plex on it.

The server is more attractive than ever, unfortunately my Mini Server is only 4 months old... can't justify that.
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post #76 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:45am
I'm not going to comment on whether or not this is a fair price vs. Windows boxes (can't be bothered to look!), but I am a little disappointed the price on this thing has crept up.

I'd like to see Apple find a way to get Mac OS X into wider usage, and if that means having a cheaper machine (with lower specs than the new Mini if necessary), then I think that's worthwhile.

The reason for me wanting that is I suspect the more users of Mac OS X there are, the more software will get developed for it. I (and many others on this board) was delighted when I saw AutoCAD coming back to the Mac. Now I don't know for sure, but I have to assume they had decided there was now enough critical mass out there in Mac land to make developing the software worth their while. I wonder how many more Windows only applications we might see if there were even more people using the Mac?

What I will say for this Mini is, getting all that and a power supply into a box that small is some pretty neat engineering.
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post #77 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:50am
i sit squarely in the "if it had blu-ray i would have already bought it" category, even though i know that Mac's will NEVER have blu-ray.

Steve-O wants you to rent & buy your movies from iTunes - that's the MAIN reason blu-ray isn't coming to mac. when netflix can stream 1080p to a Mini [and my U-verse can handle it - for $10 more a month] i will stop saying "where's blu ray". we're NOT there yet. in the meantime i'm watching DVD's on my 55" 1080p TV.


...and as for price, i would be ok with the $100 bump if a mouse and keyboard were included. [what's apple's cost to produce a mouse and keyboard, like 20 bucks?]
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post #78 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by s4mb4 View Post

the CPU is not fast enough for HTPC. i don't need to browse the web on my TV, i need to be able to do some hard core trans coding......

I'm using an older model (2.0 Ghz / 9400M ) and playing 1080P without issue. I think you are overestimating the requirements for an HTPC.

I did upgrade the stock memory to 4 GB for about $80 bucks though.
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post #79 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

If that is failure, what would be success?

having an IR port so I can use the thing for a universal remote that doesn't suck (along with everything else it does). It's meant to be the center of my media universe so it should act as such.

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post #80 of 272
6/15/10 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

The "SQUARE".


yea, it's REALLY well hidden this time.

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