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$100 increase for Apple's redesigned Mac mini seen as disappointment - Page 3

post #81 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by wvmb99 View Post

However, $699 for this little machine does put it a bit into the boutique category.... Don't know if I can justify this one.

You do realise that "boutique computers" is the category that Apple caters for and pretty much created. Just thought I'd put that out there.

But it is a little on the expensive size.
post #82 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

The price isn't a disappointment - the price is a joke.

No doubt. If they had thrown-in bluray, a wireless keyboard and glidepad then $699 would be more reasonable.

I'll just skip this one.
post #83 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

yea, it's REALLY well hidden this time.

Well hidden but it is there.
post #84 of 272
Why is everyone complaining about the price. From my perspective this unit costs $100 *LESS* than the $799 I paid for a Mac Mini with lower specs.

Yeah, there is no longer a low-end model, but AFAICT the new machine outspecs my $800 machine for $699.

THAT seems like a good deal to me.
Yes, it would be nice to have a $499 introductory machine, but a $699 high-spec item is better than a $599 low-spec and $799 high-spec model.

Of course, I've also learned that you *really* want a faster hard drive....
post #85 of 272
dimensions:
7.7" x 7.7" x 1.4" => new Mac Mini
7.7" x 7.7" x 1.1" => current Apple TV

Coincidence? I think Not! My prediction is that the aTV will be shelfed at some point and Mac Mini will offer a "Mac Mini - HTPC". It will cost probably $499, and run iOSx instead of SL OSx. AND (as some may complain) will NOT have a BD drive. It will be like the Server option, no optical drive.

You heard it here first!
post #86 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

dimensions:
7.7" x 7.7" x 1.4" => new Mac Mini
7.7" x 7.7" x 1.1" => current Apple TV

Coincidence? I think Not! My prediction is that the aTV will be shelfed at some point and Mac Mini will offer a "Mac Mini - HTPC". It will cost probably $499, and run iOSx instead of SL OSx. AND (as some may complain) will NOT have a BD drive. It will be like the Server option, no optical drive.

You heard it here first!

Sorry but very few people would buy it and it would be a flop. No one was even willing to buy an TV at 1/3 the price. People generally don't like buying things that doesn't replace something they already have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

You do realise that "boutique computers" is the category that Apple caters for and pretty much created. Just thought I'd put that out there.

But it is a little on the expensive size.

True but there is a point where price exceeds value. We are getting to the point where there is no Mac under $1000 in an industry where PC prices are decreasing.
post #87 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

You were right the first time. It all boils down to being competitive. Apple knows what their competitors sell and for how much. The annoyance I'm hearing is that Apple isn't going to sell a cheaper, stripped-down model to go up against their competitors' cheaper stripped-down models. Anybody who is seriously surprised by that just hasn't been paying attention.

Here in Germany the Dell Studio Hybrid is 649 vs. MacMini 799. Apple isn't competitive at all. Ok, the server is nice but if you need a mini as a computer, not as a media center you get better an iMac.
But then who pays such much money for a media center???
post #88 of 272
How fast is the hard drive? I hope it's not a stinking 5200rpm they've slapped into their laptops.

EDIT: Darn it, it is a 5200 rpm. For a company like Apple they sure know how to use second-rate parts. Why not throw in a 512 MB 600 MHz DDR ram stick? Slow hard drives also made me not want to get a new MacBook.
post #89 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

dimensions:
7.7" x 7.7" x 1.4" => new Mac Mini
7.7" x 7.7" x 1.1" => current Apple TV

Coincidence? I think Not! My prediction is that the aTV will be shelfed at some point and Mac Mini will offer a "Mac Mini - HTPC". It will cost probably $499, and run iOSx instead of SL OSx. AND (as some may complain) will NOT have a BD drive. It will be like the Server option, no optical drive.

You heard it here first!

That doesn't even make sense.

#1 - A mac running iOS? Umm... no.
#2 - iOS running natively on x86 hardware? No.
#3 - A price increase on Apple TV? That wouldn't help sales.
#4 - Jobs said people don't want an expensive set top box that doesn't replace any of their existing devices. They would have no reason to make this.

On the other hand, Engadget's rumored tiny $99 Apple TV with limited storage and running iOS makes a lot of sense.

Edit: The dimensions also match time capsule. If anything, I'd expect the next airport extreme to take the same form.
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post #90 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

True but there is a point where price exceeds value. We are getting to the point where there is no Mac under $1000 in an industry where PC prices are decreasing.

1. The Mini is well under $1000, even the Server is still under $1000, as is the MacBook.

2. It seems obvious, because it's been discussed ad nauseum, that PC prices are decreasing because they are building them cheaper and cheaper, while Apple is building computers better and better. As pointed out earlier in the thread, this out-specs the previous high-end mac Mini, meaning that it ought not be compared to the low-end model, which was basically dropped, so it's essentially a price cut. As also pointed out, it seems to be priced comparably to a similarly spec'd Dell, so it's also competitive with PC pricing. And the Server model is an excellent deal, especially for a small office.

The argument that their ought to be cheaper Macs effectively amounts to arguing that Apple should build some cheapo hardware to satisfy supposed demand. But I don't see how that would benefit them, and, ultimately, I don't think it would benefit users, either, but just result in a diminished ownership experience.
post #91 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

1. The Mini is well under $1000, even the Server is still under $1000, as is the MacBook.

2. It seems obvious, because it's been discussed ad nauseum, that PC prices are decreasing because they are building them cheaper and cheaper, while Apple is building computers better and better. As pointed out earlier in the thread, this out-specs the previous high-end mac Mini, meaning that it ought not be compared to the low-end model, which was basically dropped, so it's essentially a price cut. As also pointed out, it seems to be priced comparably to a similarly spec'd Dell, so it's also competitive with PC pricing. And the Server model is an excellent deal, especially for a small office.

The argument that their ought to be cheaper Macs effectively amounts to arguing that Apple should build some cheapo hardware to satisfy supposed demand. But I don't see how that would benefit them, and, ultimately, I don't think it would benefit users, either, but just result in a diminished ownership experience.

1. The Mini is priced under a thousand but the price of the Mini has only gone up since its debut. The Macbook is $999 and tax will take you over that threshold.

2. The Mini may favor comparably with the Dell but we are reaching the point where there is no low-level Mac. The Mini was originally intended to be a computer that lured potential switchers. I can't honestly recommend this to anyone and would tell them to get an iMac or Macbook instead.
post #92 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Eh, I'll be using my good old education discount anyways.

So that will save you about $50? Apple's education discounts on hardware doesn''t save you much money anymore. You will save more buying from Amazon without sales tax and free shipping.
post #93 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcale View Post

Here in Germany the Dell Studio Hybrid is 649 vs. MacMini 799. Apple isn't competitive at all. Ok, the server is nice but if you need a mini as a computer, not as a media center you get better an iMac.
But then who pays such much money for a media center???

Better take the Zino HD for comparison. It's EUR 379 (compared to EUR 809), apparently with different specs, including the AMD X2 3250E 1,5 GHz CPU (no idea how fast that is compared to the C2D in the Mac mini), 3 GB RAM, 640 GB 7200/min HD, also no Bluray, but (cheap) wireless keyboard and mouse.

The footprint is pretty much the same, the height is quite a bit more than even the previous Mac mini, and of course it's ugly.

But still, I can get more than two of them for the price of a single Mac mini.

Assuming the price of the Mac mini is not all profit, I can't really see where there is room for savings. How much is the mini's CPU, and how much can you save by using a lower-end version of the C2D? Other than that, there is no hardware to strip or use lower-spec versions, even on the HD there's nothing to save probably by using a smaller model.
post #94 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

maybe i'm just the jerk that keeps hammering at dead horses, but where the hell is the IR port on the mini? The old one had an IR port for the remote. The new one doesn't. What the hell, apple? This isn't a media center if it doesn't have a tiny remote!!!!!

GAH!

iPad FAIL.
Mini FAIL.

Stop going backwards!


EDIT:

Turns out it's just REALLY really well hidden this time. It still exists. I rescind my inflammatory reply.

"This time"? You realize it's in *exactly the same place* it's been in the last revision. AND the revision before that.

I hope you realize how your message makes you come across. (That would be reactionary, unwilling to do the slightest bit of research, and misinformed.)
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post #95 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by macosxp View Post

How fast is the hard drive? I hope it's not a stinking 5200rpm they've slapped into their laptops.

EDIT: Darn it, it is a 5200 rpm. For a company like Apple they sure know how to use second-rate parts. Why not throw in a 512 MB 600 MHz DDR ram stick? Slow hard drives also made me not want to get a new MacBook.

Because there isn't a significant difference between a 5400 RPM drive and a 7200 RPM drive. I had a 60GB 7200 RPM drive in my PowerBook G4 and switched it for a 120GB 5400 RPM drive and saw no difference in speed. I did see an increase in speed from both drives when I removed the slow 4200 RPM 40 GB drive.
post #96 of 272
I guess this will replace the ridiculous AppleTV.
post #97 of 272
Sadly, even I was somewhat disappointed by the new Mini's offering. My only wish was for it to have a quad-core option. We were waiting to see what Apple would introduce.

Our shop was seriously considering using the minis to run up to three VMware/Windows XP instances and use them as remote-desktop clients. Unfortunately, the Core2-duo in my opinion just will not cut it.

I thnk the price is competitive compared to other offerings. But with no quad-core option I will have to review non-Apple offerings. Perhaps Apple will update the chip later in the year.

We were planning on purchasing 3 to 5 of them for an initial start and more down the road if they work for us.

Bummer.
post #98 of 272
I agree that $499 was (just barely) in the range to encourage switchers. Bottom feeder prices for PCs are considerably below that. Yes, the mini offers much more -- but people's pocketbooks don't magically get deeper because there are more features. This economy is terrible; that's a fact that directly impacts many people.

$499 was something I could justify, just barely. At that price, I got quite a few people to buy minis. $599 was really too much, and I stopped trying. At $699... that's not anyone's "switcher" price. That's an elite price for a computer for most people (and remember -- you still need a monitor and KB. And more RAM -- 2 GB is not sufficient these days, especially with a paging, multitasking OS like the Mac's.) Fully configured - 500 gb drive, 8 gb ram, 2.66 GHz cpu, you're looking at $1449... man. Ouch, even.

I like the new features just fine. But I would have much rather seen a bottom of the line model that I could have continued to use to increase the number of Mac users. We already have great machines at the $1000 level and above. The people with ready cash were covered.

Oh, well.
post #99 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

dimensions:
7.7" x 7.7" x 1.4" => new Mac Mini
7.7" x 7.7" x 1.1" => current Apple TV

Coincidence? I think Not! My prediction is that the aTV will be shelfed at some point and Mac Mini will offer a "Mac Mini - HTPC". It will cost probably $499, and run iOSx instead of SL OSx. AND (as some may complain) will NOT have a BD drive. It will be like the Server option, no optical drive.

You heard it here first!

more like Apple is going to announce a TV soon

someone i know just bought a new LG 47" LED LCD TV. there are like 5 companies in the world that make the panels and they are a commodity.
the TV can hit netflix and youtube among other online services. it runs Linux as the OS

Apple needs to get in on this or risk iTunes being surpassed by Netflix. why buy from iTunes when i can rent for $8.99 a month?
post #100 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by universeman View Post

Who wants to own a movie when they're all available for streaming? One day. I have never understood why people would want to have racks of plastic discs in their living rooms.

You must not have kids...same movies...over and over and over...renting makes no sense.
post #101 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I've been pretty pissed about the price increase as well. But if you go to dell's website and price out a 50/50 comparable machine (the Dell Studio Hybrid) it prices out at $689.
2.2 Ghtz w/ 3MB cache, 2 gigs ram, SD slot, HDMI, etc. So even though i'm pissed abotu the price of this, it's competitive. I guess it all boils down to components.

It still is a little amazing that you couldn't get the price down to at least $499 at the entry level.


Except for the fact that the dell actually includes a MONITOR AND WIRELESS MOUSE/KEYBOARD so you can use the computer...yeah i guess it is competitive
post #102 of 272
I'm shocked at the price increase. They'd better not do that with the next iMac.

While I hated the external power supply, putting it inside that tiny case makes me think this mini is going to burn up like the Time Capsule does. Apple's most reliable model may have just become one of their most troubled ones. I'd wait at least 18 months before taking a chance on it. By then they might have come to their senses and lowered the price too.
post #103 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by NomadMac View Post

it should have had Blu Ray. Doesn't that seem logical?

Not when Apple has massive server farms just waiting to sell you HD content through iTunes.
post #104 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwatson View Post

You must not have kids...same movies...over and over and over...renting makes no sense.

People without kids just don't get it. A movie has to be really bad to be played fewer than 20 times.
My kids have probably watched Cars a dozen times this year alone.
post #105 of 272
I'm not seeing a Kensington Lock port anywhere...how do you secure a system that is only slightly larger than a Sony Discman without a cable lock?
post #106 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Sadly, even I was somewhat disappointed by the new Mini's offering. My only wish was for it to have a quad-core option. We were waiting to see what Apple would introduce.

Our shop was seriously considering using the minis to run up to three VMware/Windows XP instances and use them as remote-desktop clients. Unfortunately, the Core2-duo in my opinion just will not cut it.

I thnk the price is competitive compared to other offerings. But with no quad-core option I will have to review non-Apple offerings. Perhaps Apple will update the chip later in the year.

We were planning on purchasing 3 to 5 of them for an initial start and more down the road if they work for us.

Bummer.

Won't happen until after the MacBook Pros get it.
post #107 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

1. The Mini is priced under a thousand but the price of the Mini has only gone up since its debut. The Macbook is $999 and tax will take you over that threshold.

Well, you didn't say "including tax", but you can actually get the MacBook for $969 at Amazon, free shipping and no tax (collected by them). But, it's still, contrary to the title of the article, a $100 price cut.

Quote:
2. The Mini may favor comparably with the Dell but we are reaching the point where there is no low-level Mac. The Mini was originally intended to be a computer that lured potential switchers. I can't honestly recommend this to anyone and would tell them to get an iMac or Macbook instead.

It's still a good system at a good price for switchers, if they have a decent monitor, keyboard, mouse. But, yeah, obviously, if not, the iMac or Mac Book is probably a better way to go. You can't just keep slashing, or even maintaining prices, and maintain quality, somethings got to give, and although I'm sure everyone thinks it should be Apple's margins, that's the money that keeps them able to make this stuff, and other, new stuff, like iPads.
post #108 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

People without kids just don't get it. A movie has to be really bad to be played fewer than 20 times.
My kids have probably watched Cars a dozen times this year alone.

You sir, are absolutely correct.
post #109 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

1. The Mini is well under $1000, even the Server is still under $1000, as is the MacBook.

2. It seems obvious, because it's been discussed ad nauseum, that PC prices are decreasing because they are building them cheaper and cheaper, while Apple is building computers better and better. As pointed out earlier in the thread, this out-specs the previous high-end mac Mini, meaning that it ought not be compared to the low-end model, which was basically dropped, so it's essentially a price cut. As also pointed out, it seems to be priced comparably to a similarly spec'd Dell, so it's also competitive with PC pricing. And the Server model is an excellent deal, especially for a small office.

The argument that their ought to be cheaper Macs effectively amounts to arguing that Apple should build some cheapo hardware to satisfy supposed demand. But I don't see how that would benefit them, and, ultimately, I don't think it would benefit users, either, but just result in a diminished ownership experience.

Don't set a desk fan next to a lot of the current offerings of PCs right now, you are likely to blow the darn thing off your desk.
post #110 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyde View Post

Why is everyone complaining about the price. From my perspective this unit costs $100 *LESS* than the $799 I paid for a Mac Mini with lower specs.

Yeah, there is no longer a low-end model, but AFAICT the new machine outspecs my $800 machine for $699.

Moore's Law. Besides, the price in Europe works out at $979. And the Mac mini server is $1409.
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post #111 of 272
$790 excluding VAT in the UK.

It's becoming an increasingly niche product. The 21.5" iMac (with screen, keyboard and mouse) isn't much more.
post #112 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

dimensions:
7.7" x 7.7" x 1.4" => new Mac Mini
7.7" x 7.7" x 1.1" => current Apple TV

Coincidence? I think Not! My prediction is that the aTV will be shelfed at some point and Mac Mini will offer a "Mac Mini - HTPC". It will cost probably $499, and run iOSx instead of SL OSx. AND (as some may complain) will NOT have a BD drive. It will be like the Server option, no optical drive.

You heard it here first!

That is the worst prediction I've ever heard.
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post #113 of 272
It seems no matter what product Apple releases, there will always be a huge cry out from the tech world that the price is too high. It happened with the Macbook Air, the Mac Pro, the iMac, the original mac mini. The only break Apple caught on the price was the iPad. That was because the original guesses were so high at $1,000. And there still were people complaining that $500 was too much for a tablet computer.

I think Apple gets it by now. Their products will always cost more than what you expect to pay and they will pay dearly in the blog world for that. Get over it. Either see the $100 increase over the previous version as a justified expense or go buy a windows machine. Is $100 difference from the previous Mac Mini worth the daily aggravation you will experience with a Dell or HP machine? Only you can answer that.

And if you think adding a keyboard and mouse and screen pushes you to a higher cost level, Apple is ready with plenty of laptops and desktops to fill that need with all those things built in.
post #114 of 272
£649 for a glorified door stop.

Oh dear. *Puts head in hands.

Apple. What is this?

£649 for a core 2 duo. No quad. 2 gigs of ram. Integrated crappics. It's a very expensive foot warmer in Winter. It's stuff like this that gives Apple it's over priced, rip-off boutique reputation.

Jeeze, what were they thinking?

Couldn't they put a cheap ass quad in there? And the cheap ass 4850? No. That would over shadow the entry level Mac 'Pro' (drips with sarcasm...)

Couldn't they have made the design bigger and given us a 'Cube' mini-tower..?

Instead we get an expensive 'cheap ass' computer.

I'm sure someone will buy it.

It won't be me.

A backwards step in Apple's desktop 'policy.' I'd hate to call it a strategy. If it is the latter, it's insidious.

'No.'

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #115 of 272
I'm just wondering if part of the price hike is the result of massive pay raises in China. The only other explanation is the unibody case which has to be more expensive than the old one.

I'm just looking for a reasonable explanation as it is a rather stiff price increase. The price is currently stiff but not totally unreasonable.

Dave
post #116 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

maybe i'm just the jerk that keeps hammering at dead horses, but where the hell is the IR port on the mini? The old one had an IR port for the remote. The new one doesn't. What the hell, apple? This isn't a media center if it doesn't have a tiny remote!!!!!

GAH!

iPad FAIL.
Mini FAIL.

Stop going backwards!


EDIT:

Turns out it's just REALLY really well hidden this time. It still exists. I rescind my inflammatory reply.

Emm, talking about "going backwards". IR remote? As in "line of sight"? Really? Use your iPhone or iPad as a remote, buddy, with Apple Remote or anything third party.
post #117 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by foljs View Post

Emm, talking about "going backwards". IR remote? As in "line of sight"? Really? Use your iPhone or iPad as a remote, buddy, with Apple Remote or anything third party.

As numerous people have already stated, the IR receiver is still there anyway.
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post #118 of 272
When was the last time Apple offered a 'good deal' for its desktops?

Uhm. I'd reach and say the inclusion of a 27 inch monitor in the iMac once the 27 inch monitor filters down to the sub-1k model. *Don't hold your breath.

*fek me. The mac mini started at under £400 originally. Now it's £249 more at least. I can't be arsed to work out the % increase. Who cares? It's expensive. Put the 'premium' (let's be polite) 24 inch monitor with it that Apple also sell. Total? Expensive.

£1200+ for an ancient crap core duo with integrated crappics.

All those excuses we made during the PPC era. Apple have got worse with their prices since then! In a 'commodity' market with 'choice.'

Gooohhhd.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #119 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I'm just wondering if part of the price hike ...

It's been pointed out that the new Mini, at $699, out-specs the old $799 Mini. So this isn't a price hike, it's a $100 price cut on an upgrade, despite what the title of the article implies.

The "price hike" is just an illusion based on elimination of the low-end model. One can argue that the entry price has been "hiked", which is a valid point, but the Mini price, based on specs, has been cut.
post #120 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

That is the worst prediction I've ever heard.

Say what you will, i respect that. But i don't think it's any coincidence that the aTV and Mac Mini keep getting closer and closer to converging into a HTPC product. They took the HDMI from the aTV and put it on the Mini, they Put Front Row on the Mac, which is essentially the aTV UI. Now they are making the phyical devices almost identical in size (save for the height). They are even marketing the Mini on the Apple site as a HTPC; as well as adding a TimeMachine/Capsule features built-in.

If you look at the Progression of the iDevices Apple offers.
2001 - First was the iPod - music
then video in 2003-04
Then in 2007 the iPHone - phone, internet, music video
Then in 2010 the iPad - larger form factor (Close to netbook screen) music, video, interent, books, iWork
throw-in the aTV inbetween

The product's screen gets bigger, they put more and more OSx Functionality in it. Every 3-4 years they make a major hardware/software update that's "game changing". I'm telling you, perhaps you haven't looked into thier update schedules historically, but i'm going to safely bet we'll see a iOSx aTV or a dumbed-down Mac Mini HTPC in the next 2-4 years. The two platforms WILL converge at some point in the near future; either as seperate ideas or a whole new device called "iHome" or "iTV".

Apple makes small incremental steps, so say what you want, it's coming.
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