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Moved: The End Of The World As We Know It...But I Feel Fine!

post #1 of 73
Thread Starter 
Well, I don't recall seeing a thread on this yet, and with some of the events surrounding Israel, the middle east, and the world in general there have been news reports and a general feel in religious and non-religious circles that the end of the world is near. I don't know, but it could make for an interesting discussion. Note the word discussion. That is key to this topic being worthwhile.

Two Questions (please feel free to add your own so long as it stays true to the topic):
  • Do you believe that the world will end in your lifetime? If so, why?
  • How do you believe the world will end? (e.g. Sun goes supernova, all life extinguished in ball of fire, or God returns, takes his people, shuts the light off when he leaves.)

I will post my thoughts a bit later. I am still formulating an opinion that I can live with, and hopefully back logically in my mind.

The only rule for this topic is that you cannot attack what another believes about the end of the world. You can dispute it, but please do not call someone an idiot or verbally assault them for having an opinion.

[ 07-25-2002: Message edited by: groverat ]</p>
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #2 of 73
  • The world will not end in my lifetime (or in the seconds after my death) but it will become pretty grim.
  • The world (or more precisely the earth) will end by the hands of mankind.

[ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: Anders ]</p>
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #3 of 73
No I don't believe the World will end in my lifetime or my childs. But I feel like the end will come with the return of our Lord and Savior. And that's all I have to say about that.
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
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post #4 of 73
Dem dere aliens are going to take over the planet. You know, the breeding program, hybrid humanoids and all. Run for the hills!
c l o n e n o d e
o n e o f m a n y
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c l o n e n o d e
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post #5 of 73
The world is without end.

Insofar as humanity is concerned, we will continue on as long as resources are available.
post #6 of 73
Lets add a third:

Those who believe in the mumbo jumbo (hey thats my opinion): Second coming, When and how?
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post #7 of 73
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper

--T. S. Elliot, "The Hollow Men"
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I was promised flying cars. Where are the flying cars?
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post #8 of 73
Ok, just so I can clarify what I'm going to say. My definition of "World Ending" (in this context) is "Most, if not all, Humans Dead, Civilization as we know it ceasing to exist."

To answer:

I don't think the "world will end" in my lifetime. If it does it will be due to either:

A. Nuclear/Biological Warfare

B. A cataclysmic domino effect caused by space junk in low earth orbit colliding with other space junk/satellites, causing more space junk, causing more collisions etc. Thereby disrupting global communications/civilization as we know it, etc.

C. Some type of extreme natural event (Ice Age, Asteroid what have you).

D. Aliens decide they're done making fun of us and wipe us out.

E. An all loving God decides to kill us all since we can't decide who's cherry picked version of what he did or didn't say is right.

In that order.
post #9 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by jesperas:
<strong>This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper

--T. S. Elliot, "The Hollow Men"</strong><hr></blockquote>

i love that quote! i first read that inside the cover inside "On the Beach," my alltime favorite book. simply incredible...


we will come close to destroying the world ourselves, but i dont think we will completely eradicate our species. and i do believe the end is near. i had a dream about it last night actually--pretty strange coincidence. i didnt remember it really until i opened this thread...
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post #10 of 73
First NOAH, before answering i will ask you what do you mean by the world, do you mean the earth, do you mean mankind. For the moment the two are nearly the same things, but in the future if we are wize enough we will be able to reach other aera of our near universe, so it will be possible that there will be the end of earth but not the end of mankind.

Saying that i doubt that it will be the end of the world any time soon, BTW there is a slime chance that it may be the end of the world we use to know, a big change where our and ours childrens will loose great. But this future world may have a chance to be better, or we can enter in a regression aera for centuries ( a mad max world if you prefer).

I expect that before that big change will came that will be able to reach our near space and colonize it, if we can last until this aera, will have a chance to enter in a new golden age, like it was in 1482 (you know christopher Colombus) .

Ouch enough brain storming for this day
post #11 of 73
The world (as in the earth) will end (as in no longer existing) when the sun goes supernova in a good 5 billion years. Humans, on the other hand, will likely go extinct before that, but probably not for awhile. We're fairly resourceful creatures, but we've only been around for about 2 million of the earth's 5 billion prior years, so we're nothing more, in terms of universal history, than an interesting blip.

Oh, and jesperas, that's my favorite poem.
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post #12 of 73
It all depends on how you define "world".

The 'world' for me will end when I die, that is when the heart stops beating and the brain shuts off due to lack of oxygen, forcing the billions of electrical and chemical reactions responsible for the illusion/impression of 'soul' 'self-awareness' and 'consciousness' to cease.

The 'world' for the human race collectively will cease when the environment on this planet become too hostile for the continuation of life support. through natural events or those unduced by human activity.

The 'world' as an integrated physical body will cease when the Sun expands to become a 'red giant' in several billion years, when its circumference may be even larger than that described by Earth's orbit. The Sun may even go Nova/Supernova...that would really finish things off!
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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post #13 of 73
interesting point fer you apocalyptic youngins is made by agent's post...

some humans have thought the world would end for nearly every day of those 2 million years.

so reckonize you chicken literals,

cuss
post #14 of 73
The end of the world will come when little cuss posts start making sense.

Seriously, dawg. Have a Swiss Colony beef log, on me.
post #15 of 73
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by powerdoc:
[QB]First NOAH, before answering i will ask you what do you mean by the world, do you mean the earth, do you mean mankind. For the moment the two are nearly the same things, but in the future if we are wize enough we will be able to reach other aera of our near universe, so it will be possible that there will be the end of earth but not the end of mankind.<hr></blockquote>

Since you asked me directly I will reply to you. I have forced myself not to reply to the posts before you. I may to some after you though. As far as your questions. I mean a literal end of Earth. physically ceases to exist. However, it would likely be a much more interesting thread if we discussed each interpretation of what the "end" actually is.

[quote]Saying that i doubt that it will be the end of the world any time soon, BTW there is a slime chance that it may be the end of the world we use to know, a big change where our and ours childrens will loose great. But this future world may have a chance to be better, or we can enter in a regression aera for centuries ( a mad max world if you prefer).<hr></blockquote>

I think you are right in that we will see the end of the world as we know it first. If you want to know what I feel will happen take a dive into Daniel and Revelation. What I am unsure of is how much is literal events and how much is interpretation as some of what was seen may be beyond the experience of the one it was revealed to...

[quote]I expect that before that big change will came that will be able to reach our near space and colonize it, if we can last until this aera, will have a chance to enter in a new golden age, like it was in 1482 (you know christopher Colombus) .

Ouch enough brain storming for this day <hr></blockquote>

I don't think we will ever get off of this rock and colonize another planet. I would like it if we did, but I am betting it is not in the cards for us.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #16 of 73
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by agent302:
<strong>The world (as in the earth) will end (as in no longer existing) when the sun goes supernova in a good 5 billion years. Humans, on the other hand, will likely go extinct before that, but probably not for awhile. We're fairly resourceful creatures, but we've only been around for about 2 million of the earth's 5 billion prior years, so we're nothing more, in terms of universal history, than an interesting blip.

Oh, and jesperas, that's my favorite poem.</strong><hr></blockquote>

In the year 2525, if man is still alive, if woman can survive, they may find.... (I love that song, just good fun!)

So a vote for Supernova. Cool!
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #17 of 73
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by seb:
<strong>E. An all loving God decides to kill us all since we can't decide who's cherry picked version of what he did or didn't say is right.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hmm, thought about passing on this but decided to do a short reply. When God destroys the world (not if, in my opinion) it will not be because of hi anger at you or me. I believe it will be because the time is up and he is ready to move on to a more perfect relationship with those he created. It will not be a vendetta.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #18 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>The end of the world will come when little cuss posts start making sense.

Seriously, dawg. Have a Swiss Colony beef log, on me. </strong><hr></blockquote>

I thought his post made sense...
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post #19 of 73
I quote the great Jackson Browne:
  • Doctor, my eyes have seen the years
    And the slow parade of fears without crying
    Now I want to understand.

    I have done all that I could
    To see the evil and the good without hiding
    You must help me if you can.

    Doctor, my eyes
    Tell me what is wrong
    Was I unwise to leave them open for so long?

    'Cause I have wandered through this world
    And as each moment has unfurled
    I've been waiting to awaken from these dreams
    People go just where they will
    I never noticed them until I got this feeling
    That it's later than it seems.

    Doctor, my eyes
    Tell me what you see
    I hear their cries
    Just say if it's too late for me.

    Doctor, my eyes
    Cannot see the sky
    Is this the prize for having learned how not to cry?

He may or may not have been talking about the end of the world but either way the sentiments seem to fit our times. To answer your queries Noah, I tend to think along the same lines as Seb:

1. The Human Race will end long before the earth will cease to exist.

2. The Human Race will do itself in just fine. No asteroids or plagues required, though either is certainly possible (especially the former - we're overdue in the deep impact category).

:eek: <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[ 04-11-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
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post #20 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
<strong>

Hmm, thought about passing on this but decided to do a short reply. When God destroys the world (not if, in my opinion) it will not be because of hi anger at you or me. I believe it will be because the time is up and he is ready to move on to a more perfect relationship with those he created. It will not be a vendetta.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Fair enough. But then why would the middle east conflicts have anything to do with it? Just because of what revelations says? I mean Lev. says to touch the skin of a dead pig is a sin (football anyone) and Cor. says a woman is not to speak in church and that if she has a question she is to ask her husband in the privacy of her home.

Now, I'm not saying it's bad to believe in God. Just that it seems like so much of the bible has been screwed up over the millenia in translations. The King James version was written for him, afterall, to help control the people...

I just don't know how wise it is to take anything out of the bible literally. I don't think God will "end the world". If he did, would he take out the whole planet? The whole universe? Just humans? I don't get why he would make a whole universe and then kill off humans just because the people in the middle east are fighting. Is the universe his petri dish and is this something he does with every life inhabited planet (assuming there are others - to give the universe a purpose, if 'He' created it just to destroy it next week).

Not trying to attack your beliefs. Just trying to discuss the original point of the topic which was the "general feel in religious and non-religious circles that the end of the world is near". (there's that confusing "end of the world" term again.)
post #21 of 73
THT,

I just caught your post (not sure how I missed it the first time through)...what makes you believe the world itself will survive indefinitely through such events as the distant (but inevitable) extinction of our Sun and other catastrophic astronomical events?

This world we like to think of as being so permanent is just another hunk of rock and gas in the grand scheme of things. It's just as frail as any other planetary body in the universe.....

[ 04-11-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
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post #22 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong> The Sun may even go Nova/Supernova...that would really finish things off!</strong><hr></blockquote>

our Suns too small fer a supernova.
and only binary white dwarfs can go Nova.
our Sun will swell to a Red Dwarf, then the outer layer will break off leaving just a white dwarf.

at least u got some of that right.
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post #23 of 73
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by seb:

Fair enough. But then why would the middle east conflicts have anything to do with it? Just because of what revelations says? I mean Lev. says to touch the skin of a dead pig is a sin (football anyone) and Cor. says a woman is not to speak in church and that if she has a question she is to ask her husband in the privacy of her home.<hr></blockquote>

Well as far as that is concerned you can take specific quotes out of context (I see no verses or supporting verses so there is not context) and then say, "see, can't trust what the bible says." Or you can list the verses and the I can get back to you and show you other verses that either back what you are saying or show how that is not what was intended or is not valid anymore. As far as the touching a dead pig is concerned, the NT changed all that, I will have to lookup the direct refrence, Peter or Pual I believe wrote where it is not the item that makes you unclean, there is more to it than that.

[quote]Now, I'm not saying it's bad to believe in God. Just that it seems like so much of the bible has been screwed up over the millenia in translations. The King James version was written for him, afterall, to help control the people...<hr></blockquote>

There may have been some control issues in there, but King George did not translate the Bible. He had it translated by scholars who wanted to do it right. He really had no say in the translation that I am aware of. Sure, some used it for control, but if I recall correctly he wanted to read the bible himself rather than having to rely on those who knew latin reading it to him. (I know this is probably not entirely correct, it is a dim recollection)

[quote]I just don't know how wise it is to take anything out of the bible literally. I don't think God will "end the world". If he did, would he take out the whole planet? The whole universe? Just humans? I don't get why he would make a whole universe and then kill off humans just because the people in the middle east are fighting. Is the universe his petri dish and is this something he does with every life inhabited planet (assuming there are others - to give the universe a purpose, if 'He' created it just to destroy it next week).<hr></blockquote>

Well, assuming you are correct and there is life on other planets then I am sure God has it all worked out for them too. When he decides to end the world/universe and start over, he will deal with them too. However, I don't believe there are any aliens. Just my personal opinion though. My personal belief is, and you can disagree if you like, that the universe and the physical world is insignificant to God. What really matters is people, His creation. Sure, He created the world and said that it was good, but how much does a rock commune with God. Maybe I am wrong, but He is in it for us and the relationship we can have with Him.

[quote]Not trying to attack your beliefs. Just trying to discuss the original point of the topic which was the "general feel in religious and non-religious circles that the end of the world is near". (there's that confusing "end of the world" term again.)<hr></blockquote>

No, I appreciate your questions, really! Makes me think and mull over things I may not have thought about otherwise. I also want to make one last point. You asked why would God end the world based on some events in the Middle East...

I believe that God chose a small, relatively insignificant nation, Israel, and used them to show to people that he is really God. He knows what will happen, what has happened and what is happening. You can find paralells throughout the scripture for everything that has happened so far in regards to Isreal. Rather than speaking about the entire world, focus on one nation. And a small nation at that. That way there can be no doubt that wneh a prophecy is fulfilled, it is not mistakeable. One has been as far as i can tell. Israel has become a nation again. The next prophecies seem to speak of Jewish people returning to their homeland in droves. (this is happening now) Then it speaks of "when the almond tree blossoms". Many see this as a refrence to when one generation comes to maturity and a new generation comes into the new nation of Israel. When was Israel formed as a nation again? Now add up from there and you will see that we are just beginning into the next generation and the previous generation is fully matured. So, that is where people are coming to the conclusion that then next portion of scripture is going to come into play. Israel will become a "stumbling block" to the entire world. (sound familiar?) Then things begin to get interesting. There will be a treaty for peace established, 7 years of peace in return for land that Israel gives up. (Still sound familiar, this seems to possibly be in process right now)

I am not saying that this is coming to pass right now, but this is why there are people believe that the "end of the world" is near.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #24 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by _ alliance _:
<strong>

our Suns too small fer a supernova.
and only binary white dwarfs can go Nova.
our Sun will swell to a Red Dwarf, then the outer layer will break off leaving just a white dwarf.

at least u got some of that right. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, you're right. I knew I should have tried to remember stuff from my astronomy class last year. White Dwarfs are cool. In some cases, they are entirely crystalline structures (think gigantic diamonds).
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post #25 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by agent302:
<strong>

Yeah, you're right. I knew I should have tried to remember stuff from my astronomy class last year. White Dwarfs are cool. In some cases, they are entirely crystalline structures (think gigantic diamonds).</strong><hr></blockquote>

theyve gone through fusion completely into carbon, but some go further into oxygen. i think the coolest are the big stars that go through supernova and then phase into neutron stars.
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post #26 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by _ alliance _:
<strong>

theyve gone through fusion completely into carbon, but some go further into oxygen. i think the coolest are the big stars that go through supernova and then phase into neutron stars.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Nah, those are only the second coolest. My personal favorites are the gigantic stars that have enough mass to go supernova and then collapse into black holes (although I forget off hand what the minimum mass required for that is)
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post #27 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by agent302:
<strong>

Nah, those are only the second coolest. My personal favorites are the gigantic stars that have enough mass to go supernova and then collapse into black holes (although I forget off hand what the minimum mass required for that is)</strong><hr></blockquote>

they have to be at least 40 times the mass of our Sun.
yeah, i like those too, but those pulsars are just spectacular.
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post #28 of 73
I think you're both nerds.

Don't you know those are just holes poked into the darkness?

duuuuuuh
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post #29 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
<strong>
I believe that God chose a small, relatively insignificant nation, Israel, and used them to show to people that he is really God. He knows what will happen, what has happened and what is happening. You can find paralells throughout the scripture for everything that has happened so far in regards to Isreal. Rather than speaking about the entire world, focus on one nation. And a small nation at that. That way there can be no doubt that wneh a prophecy is fulfilled, it is not mistakeable. One has been as far as i can tell. Israel has become a nation again. The next prophecies seem to speak of Jewish people returning to their homeland in droves. (this is happening now) Then it speaks of "when the almond tree blossoms". Many see this as a refrence to when one generation comes to maturity and a new generation comes into the new nation of Israel. When was Israel formed as a nation again? Now add up from there and you will see that we are just beginning into the next generation and the previous generation is fully matured. So, that is where people are coming to the conclusion that then next portion of scripture is going to come into play. Israel will become a "stumbling block" to the entire world. (sound familiar?) Then things begin to get interesting. There will be a treaty for peace established, 7 years of peace in return for land that Israel gives up. (Still sound familiar, this seems to possibly be in process right now)

I am not saying that this is coming to pass right now, but this is why there are people believe that the "end of the world" is near.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That is some real creepy stuff Noah. It looks like we might live to see the end of the world after all. It sure makes you think.
I have a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell.
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post #30 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>I think you're both nerds.

Don't you know those are just holes poked into the darkness?

duuuuuuh</strong><hr></blockquote>

keep yer ignorance in yer so called "classrooms."
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post #31 of 73
I don't mean to get this thread sidetracked, but while we're on the subject of Biblical Prophesy and the Middle East . . . Abraham had two sons: one illegitamate, Ishmael, and Isaac. When the angel of the LORD was speaking to Hagar (Abraham's 'maidservant'), the angel said, "...you will have a son. You shall name him Ishmael...and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers." Muslims trace their roots back to Ishmael, and Jews to Isaac. Hmmm . . . . Will there ever be peace in the Mid-East?

Back to the topic: Supposedly there is an asteroid scheduled to hit earth in the year 2880.
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post #32 of 73
Here ya go. All your answers right here.

<a href="http://www.escape666.com/" target="_blank">http://www.escape666.com/</a>

Doing a search on google for 'armageddon prophecy' is fun.
post #33 of 73
Hey Noah, you seem to take the Bible pretty literally, so what do you think about these passages:

Jesus said this according to Matthew 16:28 and Mark 9:1
[quote]Most assuredly I tell you, there are some standing here who will in no way taste of death, until they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom.<hr></blockquote>

And Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
[quote]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.<hr></blockquote>
These passages, taken literally, suggest that Jesus would come in the lifetime of those who knew him.

This to me is the problem with all of the many end-time predictions - up til now, they've had a 0% accuracy rate.
[quote]Originally posted by bauman:
<strong>Supposedly there is an asteroid scheduled to hit earth in the year 2880.</strong><hr></blockquote>Shit!

[ 04-11-2002: Message edited by: BRussell ]</p>
post #34 of 73
Well as long as I am dead, I really don't care, but the world will end when the universe expands to such a massive size that atoms are miles apart, and eventualy all matter sort of dissolves (It was in a Steven Baxter book, cool guy).
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post #35 of 73
And that's if the universe is lucky! Or else if the critical mass is too high, the expansion will reverse and we'll all be crushed!
post #36 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>I think you're both nerds.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I never denied that.
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post #37 of 73
[quote] Jesus said this according to Matthew 16:28 and Mark 9:1

quote:
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Most assuredly I tell you, there are some standing here who will in no way taste of death, until they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

<hr></blockquote>

This was fulfilled when the disciples witnessed the Transfiguration, which was, in miniature, a preview of the kingdom, with the Lord appearing in a state of glory.

[quote] And Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
<hr></blockquote>

I don't see how this last passage implies that Jesus would come back in the lifetime of those who knew him. :confused:

[quote] This to me is the problem with all of the many end-time predictions - up til now, they've had a 0% accuracy rate.
<hr></blockquote>

Please show me where you think the Bible has been wrong on what has/will transpire.
post #38 of 73
[quote]Originally posted by GolferGuy1:
<strong>"Most assuredly I tell you, there are some standing here who will in no way taste of death, until they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom."

This was fulfilled when the disciples witnessed the Transfiguration, which was, in miniature, a preview of the kingdom, with the Lord appearing in a state of glory.</strong><hr></blockquote>I don't think so. First, the transfiguration was "going," not "coming."

Second, in the context of the section, it's clear he's talking about the second coming, and nothing else. Matthew16:27 (the sentence before that passage), reads:
[quote]For the Son of Man will come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will render to everyone according to his deeds.<hr></blockquote>
In Mark 8:38, the sentence right before the other reference, it says:
[quote]For whoever will be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man also will be ashamed of him, when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.<hr></blockquote>Again, I believe it's clear he's talking about the second coming. At the least, you have to do some twisting to make it something else.
[quote]"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

I don't see how this last passage implies that Jesus would come back in the lifetime of those who knew him.<hr></blockquote>Well, it says "we which are alive and remain..." Who does he mean by we? You could say he means "we" very generically, as in "all Christians," which could then include future people. But again that doesn't fit in the context. This chapter was a letter that Paul wrote to a specific group of people. He goes on in the next paragraph to refer even more specifically to how they should watch and wait for him to come. [quote]Please show me where you think the Bible has been wrong on what has/will transpire.<hr></blockquote>I wasn't referring to the Bible with that - I was referring to all the countless predictions through the years.
post #39 of 73
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by BRussell:

Hey Noah, you seem to take the Bible pretty literally, so what do you think about these passages:
Jesus said this according to Matthew 16:28 and Mark 9:1


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most assuredly I tell you, there are some standing here who will in no way taste of death, until they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<hr></blockquote>

I think GolferGuy got it right. This happened at the transfiguration. I don't think any twisitng is necessary as Jesus had repeatedly stated that His kingdom was not of this world.

Another verse in Mark 9:1 reads:

And He said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdome of God come with power."

Reading my study bible they even take a different tact though. They say that this happened on the day of Pentecost when Jesus baptized his followers with the Holy Spirit and power thus bringing his spiritual kingdom into power. So putting it in context, perhaps you are a bit too narrowly focused?

[quote]And Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<hr></blockquote>

Heh, off topic, but i am wearing a t-shirt right now that has a picture of the space shuttle and an astronaut doing a space walk. Coming into the picture is a giant trumpet and the words "Houston, we have a problem!!!" Part of this verse is at the bottom of the picture.

Anyhow, back to the question at hand.

[quote]These passages, taken literally, suggest that Jesus would come in the lifetime of those who knew him.<hr></blockquote>

This is where bilblical interpretation gets tougher. You cannot just pull one verse or two out of context and then assume that you got the whole picture. When placed alongside several other verses you find that Jesus so much as states that all the Apostles would die prematurely and not live to see his second coming. This is not unlike those who believed that one of the Apostles would never die because Jesus said, "What is is to you if I let him live to see the second coming." The Apostle died, prematurely, but it does not stop some from saying Jesus promised he would live until the second coming.

Oh, after reading a bit I found that Jesus himself spoke the words you quoting as well. In Matthew 24:30-31 it is nearly identical passage. In context he is definately talking of the end of the age. He is most certainly speaking of a time way off as he speaks of the temple being totally destroyed and of false Christs, the Apocolypse, the Abomination that causes desecration in the temple, the gospel being preached to the entire world. And so on. The Apostles were good, but there was no way for them to preach to the entire world. One interesting tidbit on this, after September 11th Billy Graham (or was it Franklin?) was asked to speak and it was televised around the world. Even in countries such as China that would normally block such transmissions. And the whole world was told the Gospel story and how to become a christian. Could this fulfill the prophecy in question? Maybe, maybe not. Something that those telling me that we are in the end times use as further proof that the end is near.

[quote]This to me is the problem with all of the many end-time predictions - up til now, they've had a 0% accuracy rate.<hr></blockquote>

Let me leave you with one last verse which I think sums this up nicely:

Matthew 24:36-39

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

[ 04-12-2002: Message edited by: NoahJ ]</p>
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #40 of 73
[quote]<strong>heh, off topic, but i am wearing a t-shirt right now that has a picture of the space shuttle and an astronaut doing a space walk. Coming into the picture is a giant trumpet and the words "Houston, we have a problem!!!" Part of this verse is at the bottom of the picture.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Look out! It's <a href="http://www.escape666.com/SpaceChrist.htm" target="_blank">space christ!</a>

Have you visited that site Noah? How does that stuff sound to you? Does Pastor Harry sound like a crackpot? Or does some of what he says make sense? I do have to agree with him on the Falwell and Roberts stuff. False Prophets or not, those guys are bad. Enquiring minds want to know.

[ 04-12-2002: Message edited by: seb ]</p>
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