Forget Israel, what about Cuba?

They will become our little economic bitch-state. A vacation-oriented annex.

[ 04-13-2002: Message edited by: groverat ]</p>

Bitch state...resort...whatever...
Wouldn't his brother suceed?
He was the one at the press conference at Camp Zero few months back...?

yea Raul (Castro's Brother) will take over if Castro dies. But he is not young himself... Who will take over when both of them are dead?

i just hope he doesn't keel over till after my trip there

[quote] They will become our little economic bitch-state. A vacation-oriented annex. <hr></blockquote>

Wasn't this why there was a cuban revolution in the first place?

I'm sure we have a plan in place for when Castro dies and there is no clear leader. Likely we will use our influence to install a democracy. Cuba will be one big resort for all the Americans to go to. I seriously can't wait! Having been to Cuba myself for a school trip last year, I can say that Cuba could really benefit from a huge rush of American investors.

And we'll finally be able to get some cuban cigars! Legally!

"economic bitch state"

Isn't that the fate the US has in store for all of us? Nice to see that theres no room for humility or an appreciation of diversity sneaking into the holidaying classes in America. With all the horror of recent months perhaps a rethink of the threat mighty Cuba really poses in the region wouldn't go amiss? We seem to have come to terms with the remnants of the USSR and are trading with China.

Let's just hope Castro doesn't pull an Ice-9 on us at the time of his death. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

[quote]Isn't that the fate the US has in store for all of us?<hr></blockquote>

We will buy whoever sells themself for a price worth paying.

[quote]Nice to see that theres no room for humility or an appreciation of diversity sneaking into the holidaying classes in America.<hr></blockquote>

I should humble myself before Cuba?

I haven't been on vacation outside the U.S. since I was 9, and that was only to some place in Mexico.

It's not as if Europeans aren't doing to same things to places with nice beaches. The U.S. has no monopoly on the "holiday" culture.

[quote]With all the horror of recent months perhaps a rethink of the threat mighty Cuba really poses in the region wouldn't go amiss? We seem to have come to terms with the remnants of the USSR and are trading with China.<hr></blockquote>

I think keeping the embargoes against Cuba aren't really from fear that they will spew their Communism on us so much as it is to say we dislike Castro and MAINLY to maintain the status quo. Just how silly would it make the last 4 presidents look to just lift the embargoes all of the sudden?

Strange how we rattle on about Cuba, the evils of communism and Castro's human rights record, whereas on the other hand there's Communist China, with an arguable worse human rights record, which is one of the US' largest trading partners. The difference is that China is big, powerful and far away, whereas Cuba is small, ineffectual and nearby. The US embargo is a classic playground bully tactic; stomp the little guy and appease the big one. The embargo has nothing do with principle and maintaining equitable standards in foreign relations. It's more to do with not losing face, anachronistic paranoids like Jesse helms, and the power of the corrupt and crime-riddled Miami Cuba lobby.

The main reason that the embargo still exists, I believe, is that the powerful Cuban-American voting bloc and the Lobbists in Washington DC they hire are very vocal and strong in the state of Florida, which has a lot electorial votes and a multitude of voting devices.

Wait until Castro dies, then those huge cruise ships, will stop off in Cuba. I dont what is worse.

[quote] yea Raul (Castro's Brother) will take over if Castro dies. But he is not young himself... Who will take over when both of them are dead? <hr></blockquote>
What about Elian?

A post communist aera, does not equal golden age.

See what happen in russia, the country is still very poor, mafia is everywhere, and is the most dangerous mafia in the world. When the Italian mafia want to scare you : they will put a bloody chicken on your bed, the Russian mafia will start by simply killing you.

communism is so evil, that even after it's end , nothing can growth in this land of desert. People have forget to work efficiently and alone, the most efficient ones where the ones who trickked the systems, and therefore the favorites candidates for building or entering in a mafia system.
How many years ,will it need to make russia recover ?

however the case of China is different, china is communist by his way of controling people, but is liberal in his way of conducting economy. That's why communist in china may last for a long, long time.

[quote]however the case of China is different, china is communist by his way of controling people, but is liberal in his way of conducting economy. That's why communist in china may last for a long, long time.<hr></blockquote>

Is that why China's way of working has always been "acceptable" to the US way of seeing things? When arch-Communist Chairman Mao annexed Tibet for China in the mid 1950s, with the accompanying destruction, ethnic cleansing, and brutal oppression of native Tibetans (which continues to this day), the United States (and Great Britain) ignored all appeals from the Dalai Lama and others, and flatly came out in support of China's action.

Only recently, with the overwhelming evidence that the Chinese communist (sic) regime is one of the most vicious and repressive on the planet, the United States (first with Clinton and now Bush) granted China "most favored nation" trading status. It's this type of foreign policy duplicity that makes other nations skeptical of our supposed good intentions, and makes our stance on issues such as basic human rights, religious freedoms and civil liberties appear baseless and false.

Human rights etc, re. the American way of looking at the world are only deemed valid issues if US interests are not compromised in the support of those issues. U.S. corporations aren't in Cuba...so we can bully them as much as we want. However U.S. corporations are invested in numerous other countries with appalling regimes...so they are either tolerated or beyond reproach. Just like everything in this world now, just follow those $$$.

[quote]Originally posted by powerdoc:
<strong>A post communist aera, does not equal golden age.

See what happen in russia, the country is still very poor, mafia is everywhere, and is the most dangerous mafia in the world. When the Italian mafia want to scare you : they will put a bloody chicken on your bed, the Russian mafia will start by simply killing you.

communism is so evil, that even after it's end , nothing can growth in this land of desert. People have forget to work efficiently and alone, the most efficient ones where the ones who trickked the systems, and therefore the favorites candidates for building or entering in a mafia system.
How many years ,will it need to make russia recover ?

however the case of China is different, china is communist by his way of controling people, but is liberal in his way of conducting economy. That's why communist in china may last for a long, long time.</strong><hr></blockquote>

China is not communist.. its just a barbaric dictatorship ! nothing to do with socialist values ...

[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>

Is that why China's way of working has always been "acceptable" to the US way of seeing things? When arch-Communist Chairman Mao annexed Tibet for China in the mid 1950s, with the accompanying destruction, ethnic cleansing, and brutal oppression of native Tibetans (which continues to this day), the United States (and Great Britain) ignored all appeals from the Dalai Lama and others, and flatly came out in support of China's action.

Only recently, with the overwhelming evidence that the Chinese communist (sic) regime is one of the most vicious and repressive on the planet, the United States (first with Clinton and now Bush) granted China "most favored nation" trading status. It's this type of foreign policy duplicity that makes other nations skeptical of our supposed good intentions, and makes our stance on issues such as basic human rights, religious freedoms and civil liberties appear baseless and false.

Human rights etc, re. the American way of looking at the world are only deemed valid issues if US interests are not compromised in the support of those issues. U.S. corporations aren't in Cuba...so we can bully them as much as we want. However U.S. corporations are invested in numerous other countries with appalling regimes...so they are either tolerated or beyond reproach. Just like everything in this world now, just follow those $$$.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Europe has barely the same attitude toward China, even if they support softly (to not upset the giant of Asia) the Dalai Lama and sometimes give some oral moral lessons about human's rights; but in facts they act like the US. When journalist ask to european governements why they still trade with china , they said that discussion and exchange with china is the best way to support human's right in china ...

[quote]Originally posted by rashumon:
<strong>

China is not communist.. its just a barbaric dictatorship ! nothing to do with socialist values ...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I do not know many communist country who have to do with socialist values. And for dictatorship, don't you have ever eard of proletarian dictatorship ?
Most of the communist parties in europe have decided to get rid of that notion : in that way they have becoming democratic.

[ 04-27-2002: Message edited by: powerdoc ]</p>