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iPhone 4 FaceTime video calls won't use cell minutes

post #1 of 60
Thread Starter 
An Apple representative has clarified that the new FaceTime video calls won't use up carrier minutes, even when a video chat is originated during a phone call.

The news, highlighted report by Dan Frommer of Silicon Alley Insider, means that users won't have to worry about how long they talk when establishing video calls over WiFi.

"The voice call ends as soon as the FaceTime call connects," Frommer wrote. "The FaceTime call is over WiFi so does not use carrier minutes."

That's good news for users with AT&T, as it means FaceTime won't be dependent upon the quality or continuity of a background 3G mobile connection. It's also good news for anyone who feared that the end of unlimited data plans would be lethal to the new FaceTime feature. At WWDC, Apple chief executive Steve Jobs noted that the new feature would initially be WiFi only, but that the company was working with providers to figure out how to accommodate calls over mobile networks in the future.

Dong so would involve some significant engineering issues, because unlike other forms of data that might be okay to send lazily (such as email attachments), video calls demand low latency and high bandwidth to deliver a functional and acceptable level service.



Phone required for FaceTime?

It appears that FaceTime may require a phone number to establish a video call; Apple has only stated so far that users can switch to a video call from a regular conversation (as Jobs demonstrated on stage during the WWDC keynote) or may initiate a FaceTime call from their contacts.

If not, it is very likely, but not yet confirmed, that Apple could also initiate FaceTime calls from a future iPod touch outfitted with an appropriate camera. It's also possible that desktop Macs using iChat could be adapted to support FaceTime, as long as the new standard isn't dependent upon making a phone connection to establish the video call.

Even if the current implementation of FaceTime delivered with iPhone 4 does depend upon a phone call to find the recipient without using a buddy list, it could still be feasible to create non-phone clients that can join FaceTime conversations using an alternative connection initiation method, such as those used by iChat AV (which uses the AIM buddy list, XMPP/Jabber listings, or automatic Bonjour discovery of other users on the local network).

How FaceTime differs from existing cellular video calling

FaceTime differs significantly from existing 3GPP (3G Partnership project, a mobile industry consortium behind such standards as GSM, UMTS and LTE) videophone services both in that it uses WiFi for high quality video (3GPP standards allow for only extremely limited mobile bandwidth, yet are still very expensive per minute) and that it is built upon Internet Engineering Task Force standards rather than mobile industry specifications.

This makes 3GPP video calls comparable to SMS messages rather than IETF standards-based email or instant messaging. Even worse, the mobile industry created 3GPP video calling as a circuit-switched technology that is fundamentally incompatible with packet-switched networks like those used by Internet-connected computers, meaning that a PC-based client can't connect to a phone without specialized phone hardware.

By dropping the mobile carrier's network after establishing a FaceTime session, Apple is pushing phone customers toward open Internet networking, the same way iPhone earlier prioritized free email and attachment messaging in preference to SMS and MMS, which are usually billed as add on services greatly in excess of their true cost in terms of sending their actual data.

Other phones capable of video calls, such as the Android-based HTC Evo sold by Sprint, do not use 3GPP, but rely upon third party software that reviews have found to be difficult to use and problematic.

FaceTime vs. the mobile industry

Apple has said it hopes to establish FaceTime as an open, common standard for making video calls. If it is successful, the effort will transfer the future of potentially lucrative, high bandwidth video calls to common data providers rather than tying video telephony to the domain of phone companies as 3GPP does.

The effort could also revolutionize local communications between employees of a company, or between conference participants, as WiFi networks can be set up by anyone within the largely unrestricted, unregulated spectrum allocated to it. Customers tied to a specific network (such as AT&T) have limited options for increasing the availability and reliability of their mobile network.

Cellular signal boosters and repeaters are difficult to successfully provision, while femtocell devices such as AT&T's MicroCell 3G still use up subscribers' cellular plan minutes because the call minutes and data they handle are forwarded over the Internet back to the provider, which still needs to route the data through its system.

In contrast, FaceTime calls are made directly from one iPhone 4 to another over the Internet, with no centralized phone company needed to route or manage the calls.

Apple began pushing IETF standards-based video calling in 2003 with iChat AV, a desktop application that uses many of the same technologies as FaceTime. Primary competitors to iChat and FaceTime, including Skype, largely use proprietary protocols for establishing Voice over IP and video calls because there are no widely available and well established standards to use.

How soon other smartphone platforms will begin to implement Apple's FaceTime specification remains to be seen, but the company has achieved widespread use of its WebKit browser technology, which now powers the majority of all mobile web browsers, and subsequently solid uptake of HTML5, which includes many technologies originated by Apple, including Canvas drawing and many CSS transform concepts used in web animation.
post #2 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

An Apple representative has clarified that the new FaceTime video calls won't use up carrier minutes, even when a video chat is originated during a phone call.

Snooze alert. Video calling is nothing new. Been doing it since what, 2004 or 2005? Wake me when something interesting about video calling is reported. Unless it happens over 3G, it will be dead in the water. How many people just happen to be sitting under an access point just so they can make video calls? I mean come on. This is a non-story.
post #3 of 60
The video-calling feature isn't really the news. Drop the video part of Facetime and simply make it wifi-to-wfi calling. I don't need to see your ugly mug, but I would love to not use minutes for a call.

Even the cheapest-ass phones support wifi calls (without using Skype). Why can't my iPhone do it?
post #4 of 60
ummm, since it HAS to be iPhone 4 to iPhone 4 it would be considered mobile to mobile anyways.
duhhhh mobile to mobile is free....
post #5 of 60
I don't understand why I can't make a facetime call to a computer. Why only to another iPhone?
post #6 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyepad View Post

ummm, since it HAS to be iPhone 4 to iPhone 4 it would be considered mobile to mobile anyways.
duhhhh mobile to mobile is free....

I'm talking about to ANY phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

I don't understand why I can't make a facetime call to a computer. Why only to another iPhone?

I think we just need patience for that. Perhaps after the AT&T exclusivity ends?
post #7 of 60
I don't believe Apple will introduce FaceTime with the iPod Touch, any time soon. It's probably best just to keep on their phones for now, if they really wanna be selling iPhones. I may believe a 3.2 or 5 megapixel camera, but not the front facing camera on the iPod Touch. Either way, Apple will have to redesign the FaceTime software because in order to make a FaceTime call, don't you first need to go through the cellular process? Call>FaceTime>Drop the network>Chat? I don't even think Apple will do a cellular deviced iPod Touch just for FaceTime.
post #8 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

The video-calling feature isn't really the news. Drop the video part of Facetime and simply make it wifi-to-wfi calling. I don't need to see your ugly mug, but I would love to not use minutes for a call.

Even the cheapest-ass phones support wifi calls (without using Skype). Why can't my iPhone do it?

I would love to know how to get WiFi calls on my ghetto Motorola V195s (I'm using T-Mobile Pay As You Go prepaid service). As far as I can tell, there is no WiFi hardware in my phone.

It's a bit convoluted, but your iPhone/iPod touch can make/accept WiFi calls. Get a Google Voice account. Have a Gizmo5 SIP account (they aren't taking new signups right now). Configure Google Voice to ring your Gizmo5 SIP number. Install a SIP app with push notifications on your iPhone/iPod touch (Acrobits Softphone, Acrobits Gizmo5 client, perhaps WeePhone, maybe a few others). Use the old Google Voice mobile site to ring back your Gizmo5 account. Answer the ringback call quickly on your iPhone/iPod touch before it goes to GV voicemail.

A bit of a kludge, but not bad in a pinch. Note that some of these iPhone SIP clients will now work over 3G data connections, but you're still using minutes. I have done this before on my iPod touch. This means free calls to the United States (via WiFi) when I am traveling abroad. I can shove a local carrier's SIM into my Motorola dumbphone for local calls: no hideous roaming charges.
post #9 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexhasfun28 View Post

I don't believe Apple will introduce FaceTime with the iPod Touch, any time soon. It's probably best just to keep on their phones for now, if they really wanna be selling iPhones. I may believe a 3.2 or 5 megapixel camera, but not the front facing camera on the iPod Touch. Either way, Apple will have to redesign the FaceTime software because in order to make a FaceTime call, don't you first need to go through the cellular process? Call>FaceTime>Drop the network>Chat? I don't even think Apple will do a cellular deviced iPod Touch just for FaceTime.

I think for competitive reasons, and to further the goal of increasing the number of iOS-enabled devices, the iPod touch will get a camera in 6 months. Device-to-device communication will solidify Apple's position as the pre-eminent communications device company. Parents and kids will blow this thing up once it migrates to WiMax or cell services.

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post #10 of 60
one more reason to jailbreak.

i'm sure that ANY iphone will have facetime, once its jailbroken. even factime over 3g will probably be do-able with a jailbreak.
post #11 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

I'm talking about to ANY phone.


I think we just need patience for that. Perhaps after the AT&T exclusivity ends?

I don't think it has much to do with AT&T's exclusivity. After all, it appears that FaceTime would work between two iPhone 4 users who are on completely different mobile operator.

Also, the FaceTime video call isn't really using 3G. It switches to WiFi after the initial call has been placed. If there's a way that Apple can initiate the FaceTime handshake over WiFi, whatever, it should be fairly easy.

My guess is that Apple simply ran out of time to include additional functionality. They are minimal staffed and probably didn't have the resources (people) to get a computer-based FaceTime application working.
post #12 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonklers View Post

one more reason to jailbreak.

i'm sure that ANY iphone will have facetime, once its jailbroken. even factime over 3g will probably be do-able with a jailbreak.

Yeah, however there's no front-facing camera on older iPhones. It would be a one-way street.

Better off buying iPhone 4 rather than jailbreaking an older iPhone for this.
post #13 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I think for competitive reasons, and to further the goal of increasing the number of iOS-enabled devices, the iPod touch will get a camera in 6 months. Device-to-device communication will solidify Apple's position as the pre-eminent communications device company. Parents and kids will blow this thing up once it migrates to WiMax or cell services.

Do you mean front-facing camera? or just a regular ol' camera on the back of the iPod Touch? The camera i understand, i can actually see it happen this 2010 iPod Touch line. But a front-facing camera? i don't think so. It will be smart, but what if people just soon drop their iPhones, and just get an iTouch and a simple phone from another carrier? That's what they're simply doing, right now! It will will drive iPhone sales down,.. way down if they add a front facing camera to the iPod Touch. So in reality, that move wouldn't be so smart afterall.
Also, to be able to make a FaceTime call, you will need to make a call first, then switch it over to FaceTime once your call is connected. It will detect if that person is iPhone 4 compatible and will turn the FaceTime icon on if you would like to use it.
post #14 of 60
Awesome. No more limitation on how long you and your wife can masturbate to each other on your iphone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Snooze alert. Video calling is nothing new. Been doing it since what, 2004 or 2005? Wake me when something interesting about video calling is reported. Unless it happens over 3G, it will be dead in the water. How many people just happen to be sitting under an access point just so they can make video calls? I mean come on. This is a non-story.

Someone made a good point a while back and it's this: Don't quote the entire article
post #15 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexhasfun28 View Post

Do you mean front-facing camera? or just a regular ol' camera on the back of the iPod Touch? The camera i understand, i can actually see it happen this 2010 iPod Touch line. But a front-facing camera? i don't think so. It will be smart, but what if people just soon drop their iPhones, and just get an iTouch and a simple phone from another carrier? That's what they're simply doing, right now! It will will drive iPhone sales down,.. way down if they add a front facing camera to the iPod Touch. So in reality, that move wouldn't be so smart afterall.
Also, to be able to make a FaceTime call, you will need to make a call first, then switch it over to FaceTime once your call is connected. It will detect if that person is iPhone 4 compatible and will turn the FaceTime icon on if you would like to use it.

First of all, I don't think iTouch purchases would offset iPhone customer like you say, even if iTouch is same featured as iPhone - the phone. BTW, iTouch will always be generate behind. Secondly, remember Apple doesn't sell subsidized phone (carriers are eating that cost), so to them it is practically same.
post #16 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

Yeah, however there's no front-facing camera on older iPhones. It would be a one-way street.

Better off buying iPhone 4 rather than jailbreaking an older iPhone for this.


While you are correct in that buying an iphone 4 would be smarter than jailbreaking an older one to make it do facetime, (if thats even possible which i would doubt it due to strings and API calls and such that look for hardware simply not present on any older physical phone)....

I think what the parent poster meant - or should have said - was that after jailbreaking, any iPhone 4 will have FaceTime over 3G or Wifi. or maybe bluetooth i dunno. That'd be my interest in face timing. As someone who had the Benm.at tethering hack since 3.0 came out back in the day, I can vouch for the fact that video chats (via ichat tethered thru my phone over 3G) work really well. I didn't use this feature too much since i'd basically be the cause of such bandwidth issues considering in live in major metro areas, but on the 3 or 4 times i did, i could sustain a video chat, lag free, for hours if i wanted, while answering phonecalls and still having the chat running... so its *possible* But, yeah, i think thats a better way to look at the idea of jailbreaking with regard to facetime.
post #17 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Snooze alert. Video calling is nothing new. Been doing it since what, 2004 or 2005? Wake me when something interesting about video calling is reported. Unless it happens over 3G, it will be dead in the water. How many people just happen to be sitting under an access point just so they can make video calls? I mean come on. This is a non-story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

The video-calling feature isn't really the news. Drop the video part of Facetime and simply make it wifi-to-wfi calling. I don't need to see your ugly mug, but I would love to not use minutes for a call.

Even the cheapest-ass phones support wifi calls (without using Skype). Why can't my iPhone do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

I don't understand why I can't make a facetime call to a computer. Why only to another iPhone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonklers View Post

one more reason to jailbreak.

i'm sure that ANY iphone will have facetime, once its jailbroken. even factime over 3g will probably be do-able with a jailbreak.

Stop bitching around. The idea to initiate a internet VoIP call via a regular phonecall is new and a very good idea. If you call somebody and he has a capable device (soon also non iPhone headsets) the facetime button will pop up and you can make a videophone call without paying $2 a second like it has been before. You don't need to know anything about this other persons headset, nor bother him with signing up for anything, it just works.
Sure there is skype and a bunch of sip clients, but you have to lobby all your friends to use the same.
post #18 of 60
Hmmm I guess free calling is a goodway to spin the lack of 3G voice chatting. However since mobile spectrum crunch will continue in the near to medium term future I think it's a good idea to go wifi only for now to deliver stellar video conferencing. I am sure 3d party pogroms will allow to use front facing camera over 3G with bad quality, but at least you will know that if you have wifi you can have a nice video call with someone else, especially if other phone makers adopt the technology.
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post #19 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonklers View Post

one more reason to jailbreak.

i'm sure that ANY iphone will have facetime, once its jailbroken. even factime over 3g will probably be do-able with a jailbreak.

FaceTime isn't restricted from using 3G because of some artificial boundary Apple erected. It's because mobile 3G doesn't deliver the bandwidth and latency necessary to host a quality video chat.

Have you ever used iChat AV? Have you ever tried to maintain a video chat over Internet access equivalent to 3G? If mobile 3G were able to support high quality video chat, then people would actually be doing it.

Holy balls, the comments on this article are breathtakingly ignorant. The troll saying everyone's been doing mobile video chat for 7 years no they haven't. Nokia's been enabling postage stamp video chat that is pretty much worthless, but costs up the ying-yang.
post #20 of 60
I've never seen nor done video calls on a phone in which quality is acceptable...I'll have to see how good the quality is FaceTime on wifi. I've done video calls via 3G, it just doesn't cut it.
post #21 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockpop View Post

FaceTime isn't restricted from using 3G because of some artificial boundary Apple erected. It's because mobile 3G doesn't deliver the bandwidth and latency necessary to host a quality video chat.

Have you ever used iChat AV? Have you ever tried to maintain a video chat over Internet access equivalent to 3G? If mobile 3G were able to support high quality video chat, then people would actually be doing it.

Holy balls, the comments on this article are breathtakingly ignorant. The troll saying everyone's been doing mobile video chat for 7 years no they haven't. Nokia's been enabling postage stamp video chat that is pretty much worthless, but costs up the ying-yang.

without wanting to retype what i posted above, i'd suggest you go read my post. But heres he bullet points:

- yes I HAVE had experience doing a video chat over 3G. In a congested AT&T area (los angeles) and yes it works just fine.
- i used the benm.at tethering hack and successfully did video chats about 3-4 times on separate occasions. also a few times while i was also on a phone call on that same tethered iphone at the same time.
-looked the same as an ichat over wifi as far as lag is concerned. barely any lag at all.
post #22 of 60
It makes sense that it wouldn't use call minutes since it's over WiFi, it really is like using iChat on a home computer.

It also makes sense that it's only available from iPhone 4 to iPhone 4 right now because Apple hasn't released their next version of iChat yet and FaceTime was their surprise for the launch of iPhone 4. I'm sure it will be able to call more devices now that they're releasing it as an open standard.

It will only be over WiFi this year because the press would have a field day at AT&T breaking ever second. They can barely handle some of the bandwidth coming off the high iPhone usage as it is. Next year, after AT&T bolsters their towers or Apple goes to more providers, they'll do it over the cell network.

No big surprises, but I am excited to give FaceTime a spin. I hope Rogers in Canada continues being as pro-active as they have been. I've actually been fairly happy with my carrier here. It'll be nice to see my wife and dogs' faces when I'm out of town.
post #23 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

The video-calling feature isn't really the news. Drop the video part of Facetime and simply make it wifi-to-wfi calling. I don't need to see your ugly mug, but I would love to not use minutes for a call.

Skype.

You're welcome.
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post #24 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpcg View Post

Stop bitching around.

On this site? Never happen.
post #25 of 60
all facetime calla are done over wi-fi but you do NEED a cell # to use facetime. The first
time you use facetime on iPhone 4 apple sends a SMS message to the device
to verify some things, so you have to have a cell number and a contract to do this. Afterthat it's all wi-fi. If you restore the device it needs to re-verify with a SMS again.
post #26 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockpop View Post

Have you ever used iChat AV? Have you ever tried to maintain a video chat over Internet access equivalent to 3G? If mobile 3G were able to support high quality video chat, then people would actually be doing it.

Yes, done them tonnes of times, they work great, and people actually do them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockpop View Post

Holy balls, the comments on this article are breathtakingly ignorant. The troll saying everyone's been doing mobile video chat for 7 years no they haven't. Nokia's been enabling postage stamp video chat that is pretty much worthless, but costs up the ying-yang.

Apart from implementing them, Nokia has nothing to do with the current standard for video calls, or the costs to do them.
post #27 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

That's good news for users with AT&T, as it means FaceTime won't be dependent upon the quality or continuity of a background 3G mobile connection. It's also good news for anyone who feared that the end of unlimited data plans would be lethal to the new FaceTime feature. At WWDC, Apple chief executive Steve Jobs noted that the new feature would initially be WiFi only, but that the company was working with providers to figure out how to accommodate calls over mobile networks in the future.

Wondering if it would use cellular minutes has nothing to do with your cellular data plans and it is the best way to ensure real-time voice. Going to cellular data or WiFi easily introduces latency issues as routers aren't necessary going to route real-time data for FaceTime the way we'd like it to. If this does catch on, then we could see consumer routers with FaceTime protocols preset for QoS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Snooze alert. Video calling is nothing new. Been doing it since what, 2004 or 2005? Wake me when something interesting about video calling is reported. Unless it happens over 3G, it will be dead in the water. How many people just happen to be sitting under an access point just so they can make video calls? I mean come on. This is a non-story.

You might want to wait to see the difference between 3GPP video chat and FaceTime. This service type has been commercialized since the 1980s and it's never been more than futuristic tech that has too many issues and little to no real world uses. Jetpacks are to transportation, as videocalling is to communication. Apple seems to be trying to change that, and I think they just might. Any talk of Nokia adopting FaceTime?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

I don't understand why I can't make a facetime call to a computer. Why only to another iPhone?

Remember, it's a free and open standard so there is nothing stopping anyone from making this work with Macs, Windows, Android, Symbian, Maemo, WP7, WebOS, etc. Apple choosing to focus it on its newest device and making sure it works over WiFi with iPhones before moving it to Macs and getting with carriers to allow all the needed protocols over cellular network types before


Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I think for competitive reasons, and to further the goal of increasing the number of iOS-enabled devices, the iPod touch will get a camera in 6 months. Device-to-device communication will solidify Apple's position as the pre-eminent communications device company.

I think we'll see an iPod Touch with at least a front-facing camera in the Fall event, which should just be 3 months away.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

My guess is that Apple simply ran out of time to include additional functionality. They are minimal staffed and probably didn't have the resources (people) to get a computer-based FaceTime application working.

I believe Jobs mentioned that some of the needed protocols, like SIP, tend to blocked by cellular networks. These need to be opened up to help ensure the best real-time audio and video over the data networks. Choppy A/V will not make this service usable.

Also, wan't this the last feature of the new iPhone they demoed? If they would have been working with carriers "secretly" over the last year on these features it may have leaked out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockpop View Post

FaceTime isn't restricted from using 3G because of some artificial boundary Apple erected. It's because mobile 3G doesn't deliver the bandwidth and latency necessary to host a quality video chat.

I think you are dead on. Jobs did say no cellular in 2010 so it does seem like they will work with carriers to make this a viable service for all who wish to implement it, including other vendors.

The only questions I have about FaceTime regard how it resolves you are using a "FaceTime capable device". In other words, if you are calling an iPhone 4 -and- both are using WiFI the FaceTime icon will be accessible for video chat. How does it know this?

It seems to me it works much like Back to My Mac and other services that notify a centralized server with then reports on your IP address and that you're on WiFi chatting with someone using a FaceTime capable device, which it then informs each device that FaceTime will function. Maybe it also tests bandwidth, latency and protocols before sending the go ahead. From there, you then choose the FaceTime option which sends the request directly to the other user, bypassing the server, which the other user then accepts and the video then starts after the handshake is finished.
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post #28 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Snooze alert. Video calling is nothing new. Been doing it since what, 2004 or 2005? Wake me when something interesting about video calling is reported. Unless it happens over 3G, it will be dead in the water. How many people just happen to be sitting under an access point just so they can make video calls? I mean come on. This is a non-story.

Did you HAVE to quote the whole bloody article, or in your somnambulant state your finger slipped and you couldn't help it?

But on the other hand you are welcome to sleep thru any and all other innovations Apple trots out...

post #29 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonklers View Post

one more reason to jailbreak.

i'm sure that ANY iphone will have facetime, once its jailbroken. even factime over 3g will probably be do-able with a jailbreak.

do that exactly? Do you know how it's been implemented?? Wait er, no. I mean far be it from me to pooh-pooh jail-breaking - it keeps a lot of my friends happily occupied. But until you have one in hand just tossing jail-breaking at it as comment seems silly. Unless of course you are going to say *Adopting a sinister and vaguely threatening voice* "Ha! I scoff at Apple and their tired attempts to prevent us from rightly claiming what was never ours to begin with! We shall prevail! And the gates of Cupertino shall not prevent us! Bwa-ha-ha-ha!"
post #30 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonklers View Post

one more reason to jailbreak.

i'm sure that ANY iphone will have facetime, once its jailbroken. even factime over 3g will probably be do-able with a jailbreak.

Why jailbreak? If it's an open and free standard using known protocols then Skype, Fringe, et al. can just add it to their apps. Since Apple is trying to push this service in the hopes of popularizing it I think it's unlikely they'd deny it for "duplicating functionality". Are there developer APIs to connecting to FaceTime on iPhone 4?
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post #31 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Snooze alert. Video calling is nothing new. Been doing it since what, 2004 or 2005? Wake me when something interesting about video calling is reported. Unless it happens over 3G, it will be dead in the water. How many people just happen to be sitting under an access point just so they can make video calls? I mean come on. This is a non-story.

Just because you say it does not make it so.
Please explain what you mean. Enlighten us mere mortals.

Also, even though facetime is just wifi, can you suggest any other phone OS's that has the (apparent) ease of use that facetime has? Seriously, I don't know. I've read that the new evo's video calls are a pain to set up and barely work

As for me, video chat would be used very little. But I do see the potential for multiple uses.
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post #32 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Also, even though facetime is just wifi, can you suggest any other phone OS's that has the (apparent) ease of use that facetime has? Seriously, I don't know. I've read that the new evo's video calls are a pain to set up and barely work

Well with my three year old phone, you go to the phone book, select someones name, and choose video call, not sure where the pain comes in?
post #33 of 60
Give me a break. How on the earth would a WiFi only call be counting cellular minutes?

"WiFi only + iPhone / iPhone only" is really bad for marketing. Average Joe will soon ask why they can't make a video call over the cellular network. It would be better if Apple did not coin such a beautiful name "FaceTime" for video call -- most consumers know what a video call is. And btw, there are many much better carriers in countries other than the US, so why to block the whole world's right to use video call just because of the crappy AT&T?

Of course this won't stop iPhone 4 sales as there are so many other exciting features on the new iPhone, but FaceTime is (at least for now) definitely a point for Apple haters to laugh at besides the word "magical" for the iPad.

:-)
post #34 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Well with my three year old phone, you go to the phone book, select someones name, and choose video call, not sure where the pain comes in?

Now your 3 year old phone is the EVO is mentions in his post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by haruhiko View Post

Give me a break. How on the earth would a WiFi only call be counting cellular minutes?

It doesn't, hence the article. It was previously brought into question as to what parts were done over WiFi and if the cellular call demoed remained active for real time voice, only streaming the video part over FaceTime. That would have used your minutes. Of course, a look into the protocols used indicate that voice was going to be routed over WiFi, too.

Quote:
"WiFi only + iPhone / iPhone only" is really bad for marketing. Average Joe will soon ask why they can't make a video call over the cellular network.

Quite the contrary, it's great for marketing. You focus on your product working in a certain way while working to expand its uses across more OSes, apps and network types. You don't start by supporting everything poorly and then scratch your head after it fails you build from a solid foundation up.

To even think Apple has bad marketing should make you reassess your position because if there is one thing Apple excels at over everything else in its diverse bag of tricks, it's marketing.

Quote:
It would be better if Apple did not coin such a beautiful name "FaceTime" for video call -- most consumers know what a video call is.

Anything Apple could ever produce has been done before at some level. Technology is about advancements, not about creating something entirely new. If you don't market it then you have no brand to associate with it and Apple clearly thinks they have a winner with FaceTime which is why they are trying to get carriers and SW devs to support it.

More importantly, in this instance, a great marketing name is required if you want to turn around a product or technology that has been a marketing failure. What Apple has proposed is not proprietary in any way. It uses IP data networks and protocols so it will work on desktop and notebook PCs, CMDA, 3GSM and TD-SCDMA networks. Anywhere you have IP networks this has the potential of working with no intervention from the user of the app developer.

Quote:
And btw, there are many much better carriers in countries other than the US, so why to block the whole world's right to use video call just because of the crappy AT&T?

Where is your proof that all the carriers except for AT&T allow for all the protocols used for FaceTime. I seem to recall Jobs stating that was the issue. I can't imagine such an issue was only AT&T so to make such a claim requires some proof.

As for why Apple is so close to AT&T you have to understand that Apple sells far more iPhones in the US than any other country. That is not likely to change for awhile.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #35 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Now your 3 year old phone is the EVO is mentions in his post.



It doesn't, hence the article. It was previously brought into question as to what parts were done over WiFi and if the cellular call demoed remained active for real time voice, only streaming the video part over FaceTime. That would have used your minutes. Of course, a look into the protocols used indicate that voice was going to be routed over WiFi, too.


Quite the contrary, it's great for marketing. You focus on your product working in a certain way while working to expand its uses across more OSes, apps and network types. You don't start by supporting everything poorly and then scratch your head after it fails you build from a solid foundation up.

To even think Apple has bad marketing should make you reassess your position because if there is one thing Apple excels at over everything else in its diverse bag of tricks, it's marketing.


Anything Apple could ever produce has been done before at some level. Technology is about advancements, not about creating something entirely new. If you don't market it then you have no brand to associate with it and Apple clearly thinks they have a winner with FaceTime which is why they are trying to get carriers and SW devs to support it.

More importantly, in this instance, a great marketing name is required if you want to turn around a product or technology that has been a marketing failure. What Apple has proposed is not proprietary in any way. It uses IP data networks and protocols so it will work on desktop and notebook PCs, CMDA, 3GSM and TD-SCDMA networks. Anywhere you have IP networks this has the potential of working with no intervention from the user of the app developer.


Where is your proof that all the carriers except for AT&T allow for all the protocols used for FaceTime. I seem to recall Jobs stating that was the issue. I can't imagine such an issue was only AT&T so to make such a claim requires some proof.

As for why Apple is so close to AT&T you have to understand that Apple sells far more iPhones in the US than any other country. That is not likely to change for awhile.

Thanks for clarifying the issues. I really hope that FaceTime will work across different platforms, at least to other mobile phones and Mac computers. Anyway I'm definitely getting the iPhone 4, since video call is the least concern of mine, I'm more excited about the high-res display and having 512MB RAM on iOS, this is gonna beat every competitor in terms of performance.
post #36 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by radster360 View Post

First of all, I don't think iTouch purchases would offset iPhone customer like you say, even if iTouch is same featured as iPhone - the phone. BTW, iTouch will always be generate behind. Secondly, remember Apple doesn't sell subsidized phone (carriers are eating that cost), so to them it is practically same.

With the way that most people complain about AT&T service, i'm pretty sure they would hurt the iPhone sale. That's a vast majority of them, sadly to say. But either way, Apple would have to make a few software changes in order to make the FaceTime available through wi-fi only, without having to make a call first.
post #37 of 60
Ummm Duhh!!!! When the video phone call stops going over wireless and starts going over wifi, its NOT USING WIRELESS any more so they cant charge you for time you are not using.

Only Appleinsider could try to spin this BS. Apple is not going to force some new standard with this. iOS 5 or whatever they will call it will support it over 3G on the next iPhone and iPad, just like other vendors do today. Just like how they had to use MMS after the fact.

They must hand out really good drugs at Appleinsider. Video phone calling on the new iPhone is the biggest "So What" of the launch. You need iPhone 4.0's and wifi before it even works. Way to many limitations out of the gate.
post #38 of 60
Umm, did anybody else notice the 4th paragraph starts with the phrase "Dong so"? Or am I the only perverse mind here?
post #39 of 60
Well.. cos the iPhone 4's FaceTime, at least initially, will be Wi-Fi only... then would it mean that one could have international FaceTime calls too!?!?!

WOW that would be amazing... coming to think of it... if iPod Touches (obviously the newer ones) get this stuff... then there is no need of an iPhone (4 or above) i guess, except for its beefy hardware... cos if a pictures speaks volumes than words, then i guess a video speaks several more than a picture does... :P




Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

An Apple representative has clarified that the new FaceTime video calls won't use up carrier minutes, even when a video chat is originated during a phone call.
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post #40 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Snooze alert. Video calling is nothing new. Been doing it since what, 2004 or 2005? Wake me when something interesting about video calling is reported. Unless it happens over 3G, it will be dead in the water. How many people just happen to be sitting under an access point just so they can make video calls? I mean come on. This is a non-story.

Maybe it's because I live in the US, but I've never owned a phone with video chat. I've never known anyone who has a phone that has video chat. And I've certainly never met anyone whose phone has easy-to-use, elegantly interfaced video chat.

Regarding Wi-Fi limitations, cellular networks obviously cover more area than Wi-Fi networks. But, I'm probably not gonna use it while I'm walking or driving. Maybe it would be fun while on public transportation (?) but even that would be kind of obnoxious and lacking privacy. If I'm having a FaceTime chat, it's probably with my girlfriend, my parents, or a close friend and we're probably at home or at school. It'd obviously be useful in more situations to have 3G FaceTime, but I wouldn't call it "dead in the water". For 95% of people, this will just be fun, intimate, and easy to use in limited situations.
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