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Adobe ships Flash 10.1 to mobile device makers - Page 4

post #121 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

There you go again, taking it out of the context of the thread.

And you not here to support Flash? As anyone can see, by looking at your posting history, that's a pretty funny claim by you.

You like to throw out the talking in circles thing at others, but a discussion with you is never anything but that. I guess just repeating your talking points over and over again, pretending they haven't been shown hollow or false, regardless of, and without addressing, anything anyone actually says is one way to argue when that's all you have to say, but after a while it's tiresome to come up with novel refutations of the same discredited assertions.

You may now have the last word in this particular discussion, if you wish.

you were wrong my friend. Pure and simple.

And then you tried the shriek I was only supporting flash. Which, once again, since you never bothered to read the posts, you were once again, wrong. I never supported flash in the argument at all. Merely set the record straight on something, which seems to have gotten you all bent out of shape and now you're yammering.

I'm here because I use apple products. In fact I just blew 3500 bucks last weekend at an apple store on a sweet i7 tricked MBP. So yeah go ahead and call me an apple hater.

Just see a lot of bullcrap and people talking like they know something here at times.
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post #122 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

do you think anyone would listen, or care if someone did report it ran well? It's the man bites dog vs dog bite man thing.

Sure if Flash ran consistently fine with little impact to system resources and battery life. It would be fully acknowledged.

Quote:
I've had it run very well, not any choppier than I've seen stuff run on my iphone, and don't see the battery or performance issues a few blogs point to.

Are you saying you were able to play 10 hours of Flash video on a phone, the same as the iPhone is capable?
post #123 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

Why because Steve told you so? Suggesting flash is holding back the internet is just moronic. Sorry. Technologies that remain relevant to developers and end users will continue. If they don't, they will fail without the help of a handful of forum know-it-alls and bloggers.

It would be interesting to see statistics on the number of posts about why Flash must die posted here before Steve began publicly attacking it vs. after. Gosh, think there'd be much of a difference? I mean, it's not like AI is filled with a bunch of fanboy parrots. I'm sure all of them can point to at least as many posts they've made here before 2010 about why Flash must die as they've posted this year.

Summary of why Flash isn't necessarily the devil:
http://features.techworld.com/applic...flash/?olo=rss

Exercise for the reader to compare Flash with HTML5:
1. Find any good Flash game, and make a version of it in HTML5.
2. Deploy for the same percentage of web users.
3. Report your costs for development.
4. Find out the cost to develop the Flash version.
5. Compare and contrast the ROI for each version.
post #124 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

It would be interesting to see statistics on the number of posts about why Flash must die posted here before Steve began publicly attacking it vs. after. Gosh, think there'd be much of a difference? ...

I invite you to comb the archives for such information. While the number of threads and posts since Adobe attacked Apple, and Apple published it's stance, on Flash and this became a hot topic have surely increased, becaue it is currently a hot topic, I can assure you that in the threads and posts prior to this, the same opinions on why Flash needs to die so the web can progress beyond it's proprietary prison, on how much it sucks on the Mac, etc, were expressed. Trust me, people have wanted Flash to go away since long before the iPhone came along, and largely for the same reasons they want it to go away today.
post #125 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post

Too late, Adobe! Flash on mobile devices is unneeded and unwanted. Most sites have switched to HTML5. Games are freely available in app stores.
Remind me why Flash is necessary? Anyone?

ALL the TV sites I would like to watch on my mobile devices are flash based. So it does matter. For me it will make the difference on my next purchase and my recommendations to friends.

Verizon is coming in July with an android phone that is better than the iphone 4 and its on a better network than AT&T. That will hurt iphone sales for sure. Flash support on the iphone/ipad could ease off the impact. The lack of HDMI out and lesser photo/movie recording specs makes the iphone4 already obsolite.
post #126 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

Most people here are content to believe it does not work. It cannot possibly be any good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes

You are an idiot. We all have used flash and we all know what flash content is out there and i can tell you that the grapes aren't that great. Don't pretend that we have never seen flash content on the Internet. We have and quite frankly i enjoy my browsing a lot more without it than with it. If your going to use a story to try to get a point across make sure it fits.
post #127 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

I have never seen a group of people so happy to NOT have something. At least a choice for something.

I don't know how important Flash will be on mobiles but on desktops, it's big. I don't know what everyone else is doing with the Net for business but I've seen numerous industries, consulting services, engineering, education, internal use, media industry, geospatial applications, government, etc. etc. that absolutely rely on Flash to deploy applications over the Net. Flash is not going away any time soon. It may actually start to be bad for Apple if they don't let Adobe create Flash for iPhone. They should have it as a downloadable options perhaps while it gets tuned up, and not on it by default. That way people who don't want it, don't have it. I don't understand why people hate Flash. How else do people propose deploying interactive maps, video with ads (those are needed to pay for TV) like Hulu, and interactive websites? Although Adobe certainly has to get get serious about Flash player on Macs. It does suck on Macs. Perhaps Steve should let them experiment with it on iPhone and it can be approved by Apple when it is up to Apple's performance standards.

I'm happy that my car does not have the ability to lock my keys inside of it. Sure, it might be nice occaisionally to lock the door and then close it. But i'll trade that in for making it impossible to accidentally lock my keys inside.

As for businesses. The multi-billion dollar / year manufacturer I work for doesn't use flash internally and just switched all company phones to iPhones. In fact, we just got a bunch of iphone4s in today.

Some businesses might need flash, but i'd bet it is mostly consumers that want it. For them, there are phones that they can choose instead. Right?

The rest of us will stick to a platform that is managed in such a way to raise the average usage experience.
post #128 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I invite you to comb the archives for such information. While the number of threads and posts since Adobe attacked Apple, and Apple published it's stance, on Flash and this became a hot topic have surely increased, becaue it is currently a hot topic, I can assure you that in the threads and posts prior to this, the same opinions on why Flash needs to die so the web can progress beyond it's proprietary prison, on how much it sucks on the Mac, etc, were expressed. Trust me, people have wanted Flash to go away since long before the iPhone came along, and largely for the same reasons they want it to go away today.

Yep, search for click to flash to see examples.
post #129 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Sure if Flash ran consistently fine with little impact to system resources and battery life. It would be fully acknowledged.



Are you saying you were able to play 10 hours of Flash video on a phone, the same as the iPhone is capable?

I can't get even half that on my iphone. Never have. Perhaps it's defective I donno. But truthfully I've never thought of it as a bad thing. My new macbook pro was advertised as 8 to 9 hours,I probably get maaaaaybe5 or 6, I'd have to nearly shut the thing down to practically not using it with brightness on 1 to get near 8 hours.

I haven't tested the length of flash video vs html5 video on android. So I can't say I know.
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post #130 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

ALL the TV sites I would like to watch on my mobile devices are flash based. So it does matter. For me it will make the difference on my next purchase and my recommendations to friends.

ABC and CBS both have iPhone apps that show video content. So much for your claim that you can't watch videos on an iPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Verizon is coming in July with an android phone that is better than the iphone 4 and its on a better network than AT&T. That will hurt iphone sales for sure. Flash support on the iphone/ipad could ease off the impact. The lack of HDMI out and lesser photo/movie recording specs makes the iphone4 already obsolite.

Oh, yeah. The 'much better than the iPhone' phone that we've been hearing about for 3 years now. Come back when you have something that really IS better.

As for the network, that's openly debatable - and depends on where you are more than anything. For example, there are twice as many people who get NO Verizon service at all as there are who get not AT&T.

Not to mention that if Verizon gets the iPhone, they'll be swamped and any service advantage they might have would go away pretty quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

I can't get even half that on my iphone. Never have. Perhaps it's defective I donno. But truthfully I've never thought of it as a bad thing. My new macbook pro was advertised as 8 to 9 hours,I probably get maaaaaybe5 or 6, I'd have to nearly shut the thing down to practically not using it with brightness on 1 to get near 8 hours..

Fortunately, there are independent reviewers out there so we don't have to rely on your fabricated results.
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post #131 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

ALL the TV sites I would like to watch on my mobile devices are flash based. So it does matter. For me it will make the difference on my next purchase and my recommendations to friends.

Verizon is coming in July with an android phone that is better than the iphone 4 and its on a better network than AT&T. That will hurt iphone sales for sure. Flash support on the iphone/ipad could ease off the impact. The lack of HDMI out and lesser photo/movie recording specs makes the iphone4 already obsolite.

I have the Droid and enjoy it, but the Droid X surely didn't impress me that much. Nothing about it made me say "wow". I was considering getting it, but nothing about it made me feel any sense of urge to purchase it.

Gonna withhold an actual opinion until I actually try it though, reviewers seem to like it a lot.
post #132 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

ABC and CBS both have iPhone apps that show video content. So much for your claim that you can't watch videos on an iPhone.



Oh, yeah. The 'much better than the iPhone' phone that we've been hearing about for 3 years now. Come back when you have something that really IS better.

As for the network, that's openly debatable - and depends on where you are more than anything. For example, there are twice as many people who get NO Verizon service at all as there are who get not AT&T.

Not to mention that if Verizon gets the iPhone, they'll be swamped and any service advantage they might have would go away pretty quickly.



Fortunately, there are independent reviewers out there so we don't have to rely on your fabricated results.

I really don't give a shit what you read.
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post #133 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

ABC and CBS both have iPhone apps that show video content. So much for your claim that you can't watch videos on an iPhone.

Unless you aren't American. In which case, you don't get access to that content. The alternatives however, often require Flash.
post #134 of 149
Streaming video certainly does change things. As the phone has to use its radio chip and decode the video stream. But when watching video stored on the phone you do get more than 5 hours out of it.

The irony is if you are using any Flash content on your MBP you most certainly are not going to get 8 or 9 hours out of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

I can't get even half that on my iphone. Never have. Perhaps it's defective I donno. But truthfully I've never thought of it as a bad thing. My new macbook pro was advertised as 8 to 9 hours,I probably get maaaaaybe5 or 6, I'd have to nearly shut the thing down to practically not using it with brightness on 1 to get near 8 hours.
post #135 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Streaming video certainly does change things. As the phone has to use its radio chip and decode the video stream. But when watching video stored on the phone you do get more than 5 hours out of it.

The irony is if you are using any Flash content on your MBP you most certainly are not going to get 8 or 9 hours out of it.

or anything else really for that matter, not just flash.

But truthfully, after the powerbooks I had where I'd start with maaaaybe close to 3 hours time, it'd be 2ish hours before long. So I'm fine with 4 or 5 hours really. Just to attain 8 or 9 hours is silly.

Real world vs 'reported testing'.
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post #136 of 149
Man, classic PR spin: "Full web".
Flash is not the web. It is in fact the opposite. Proprietary, isolated executables that are very separate from real web content.

And still pages with flash cause my desktop web browser to suck 30% of the CPU continuously.
post #137 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

If anyone doubted that Google has no commitment to quality nor real interest in promoting open standards, this should be the final nail in that coffin.

*facepalms* Because nothing says "closed" like a dedicated site geared towards open web standards. Really, Google is sooo closed that their practically giving you Android's source code for free. Oh yeah, Apple sued HTC again.

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post #138 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zc456 View Post

*facepalms* Because nothing says "closed" like a dedicated site geared towards open web standards. Really, Google is sooo closed that their practically giving you Android's source code for free. Oh yeah, Apple sued HTC again.

It's called shaping their image.
post #139 of 149
So what other technology can I use to make interactive web-based maps very easily (easy to make, also easy to deploy and use as an end-user)?

Flash works great on PCs. I suspect, thanks largely to Steve calling Adobe on it and them going in to panic mode as someone suggested, that Flash will be good on Droids either with the current gen. or the next gen. that has better hardware along with more optimized Flash code. In my admittedly entry-level few years of experience in business it seems Flash is going nowhere. It seems like a great technology, but just with a really crappy Mac port. Like so much other stuff! I feel like Steve could have handled this better. I still can't believe the bitterness and almost meanness Steve personally inserted into that "open letter" on their web site a few weeks ago. I feel Apple should be treating Adobe like an ally against M$/Google not an opponent. Apple needs to build more partnernships not less. Partnerships are why iPod/iPhone/iPad have worked so well! Be a team player Steve.
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post #140 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

So what other technology can I use to make interactive web-based maps very easily (easy to make, also easy to deploy and use as an end-user)?

html. Granted, you'll actually have to learn to use it and it does change over time (we're in the middle of a transition from html 4 to html 5), but it does everything you want.

Lots of people are able to do sites without using Flash, so Flash is clearly not critical.

You could have a look at the Toy Story iAd demo to get an idea of what html is capable of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

Flash works great on PCs. I suspect, thanks largely to Steve calling Adobe on it and them going in to panic mode as someone suggested, that Flash will be good on Droids either with the current gen. or the next gen. that has better hardware along with more optimized Flash code.

That's exactly the problem with Adobe's attitude. "Our app sucks, but we'll wait a while and eventually it won't suck as much" is a lousy philosophy for development. In the history of computing, things almost always get MORE CPU-intensive over time rather than less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

In my admittedly entry-level few years of experience in business it seems Flash is going nowhere. It seems like a great technology, but just with a really crappy Mac port. Like so much other stuff! I feel like Steve could have handled this better. I still can't believe the bitterness and almost meanness Steve personally inserted into that "open letter" on their web site a few weeks ago. I feel Apple should be treating Adobe like an ally against M$/Google not an opponent. Apple needs to build more partnernships not less. Partnerships are why iPod/iPhone/iPad have worked so well! Be a team player Steve.

Apple tried to work with Adobe. They gave Adobe 3 years to create a version of Flash for the iPhone - and STILL didn't make an issue of Adobe's failure unto Adobe went on the attack.

Then, when you look at the CS package, Adobe has clearly been dragging their feet on Mac versions for years (more than a decade). Instead of working with Apple when Apple accounted for 90% of Adobe revenues, Adobe publicly and intentionally announced their intention to move their primary efforts to Windows. They have failed to implement Apple technologies in cases where they really would have made a difference. Adobe is the one who has refused to act like a partner.
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post #141 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Then, when you look at the CS package, Adobe has clearly been dragging their feet on Mac versions for years (more than a decade). Instead of working with Apple when Apple accounted for 90% of Adobe revenues, Adobe publicly and intentionally announced their intention to move their primary efforts to Windows. They have failed to implement Apple technologies in cases where they really would have made a difference. Adobe is the one who has refused to act like a partner.

I'm afraid a good deal of this is just plain bull.

I don't know why people who know absolutely zero about this insist on mouthing off about it.

There is far more to this sordid tale, if you care to go learn about it. Neither side was any angel in the journey. But you'll need to pull your nose out of apple's ass to realize this I'm afraid.

And no, this is no defence of either company. Before you go off like a shrieking jack in the box again.
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post #142 of 149


Eight, freakin, hours. I couldn't believe it. In my lightest test, the new 15-inch MacBook Pro lasted eight hours and eight minutes. That's with the screen at half brightness (completely usable) and no funny optimizations. The notebook is just playing music and surfing through a lot of my old reviews.

My heaviest workload delivered just under 5 hours of battery life, a figure that the old MBP could only attain while running my lightest workload. This thing rocks.

Either way, Apple's 7 hour claim is well within reason. For light workloads, even on WiFi, you can easily expect 6.5 - 8 hours out of the new 15-inch MBP. As I write this article on that very system I'm told that I have nearly 8.5 hours left on my charge. If you do a lot of writing on your notebook, the new MBP is exactly what you'll want; it will easily last you on a cross-country flight if you need to get work done.


Apple's 2009 MacBook Pro: Battery Life to Die For

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

or anything else really for that matter, not just flash.
But truthfully, after the powerbooks I had where I'd start with maaaaybe close to 3 hours time, it'd be 2ish hours before long. So I'm fine with 4 or 5 hours really. Just to attain 8 or 9 hours is silly.
post #143 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post



Eight, freakin, hours. I couldn't believe it. In my lightest test, the new 15-inch MacBook Pro lasted eight hours and eight minutes. That's with the screen at half brightness (completely usable) and no funny optimizations. The notebook is just playing music and surfing through a lot of my old reviews.

My heaviest workload delivered just under 5 hours of battery life, a figure that the old MBP could only attain while running my lightest workload. This thing rocks.

Either way, Apple's 7 hour claim is well within reason. For light workloads, even on WiFi, you can easily expect 6.5 - 8 hours out of the new 15-inch MBP. As I write this article on that very system I'm told that I have nearly 8.5 hours left on my charge. If you do a lot of writing on your notebook, the new MBP is exactly what you'll want; it will easily last you on a cross-country flight if you need to get work done.


Apple's 2009 MacBook Pro: Battery Life to Die For

I'm typing this post on the latest brand new macbook pro 15" i7 with 8gigs of ram.

I can tell you, it is not possible, to get 8 hours of battery time on my mbp at half brightness, surfing the web and listening to music.

But that doesn't mean I'm not at all happy with it. Far from it. it gets much better battery life than the older MBP for sure. Personally, I take the blogs tests with a grain of salt.

I should also mention, that if you're going to buy any laptop right now, this thing with 8 gigs freaking screams. Both logic and CS5 runs like a dream.
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post #144 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

ALL the TV sites I would like to watch on my mobile devices are flash based. So it does matter. For me it will make the difference on my next purchase and my recommendations to friends.

Verizon is coming in July with an android phone that is better than the iphone 4 and its on a better network than AT&T. That will hurt iphone sales for sure. Flash support on the iphone/ipad could ease off the impact. The lack of HDMI out and lesser photo/movie recording specs makes the iphone4 already obsolite.

You’re ignorant.
post #145 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by monsieurmatt View Post

Flash is not the web. It is in fact the opposite. Proprietary...

Things Steve Jobs forgot to mention in his Why I Hate Flash paper:

1. h.264 is proprietary.

2. Apple owns part of it.

3. Anyone using it to write playback software must pay money to do so. True, those fees are not called specifically "royalty" fees - yet. But while this nomenclature trickery allows Jobs to say it's "royalty free", there are fees just the same, and they will only get more expensive because:

4. On top of the existing fees, royalty fees will be added in just a couple years. No one know exactly how expensive h.264 will be to support, since the royalty fee schedule will not be disclosed until after it's become more widely adopted.


If you don't believe me, look it up. It's on Wikipedia and darn near every other place Jobs doesn't control. Why he works so hard to keep h.264's proprietary nature from being more of a talking point isn't much of a mystery, but given how easy it is to find out his "royalty free" claim is such a legalistic ruse it just makes him look bad. Heck, even Bill Gates would be embarrassed to pull that.


Welcome to the New Apple.
post #146 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

You can watch web videos on an iPhone. YouTube is already there, Hulu will be there soon...

Hulu says otherwise:

Quote:
May 13, 2010 4:43 PM PDT
Hulu improves its player, commits to Flash

If you've been holding your breath for Hulu to offer an HTML5 video player, your skin's about to get purpler.

Eugene Wei, Hulu's VP of product, posted a missive on the popular video site's company blog that goes over various improvements while adding a decisive note about sticking with Adobe's Flash technology over using an HTML5 video player. At least for the time being.

"We continue to monitor developments on HTML5, but as of now it doesn't yet meet all of our customers' needs," Wei said. "Our player doesn't just simply stream video, it must also secure the content, handle reporting for our advertisers, render the video using a high performance codec to ensure premium visual quality, communicate back with the server to determine how long to buffer and what bitrate to stream, and dozens of other things that aren't necessarily visible to the end user. Not all video sites have these needs, but for our business these are all important and often contractual requirements."

The news does put a chill on the rumor that the company was working on a version of the site for devices that can run HTML5 video but not Adobe's Flash. A report last August claimed that Hulu was just months away from releasing a TV show watching application for the iPhone. The recent spat between Apple and Adobe over the inclusion of Flash on the iPhone and iPad has done little to give hope of that becoming true without Hulu changing the underlying technology of its player.

Though to that end, Hulu on Thursday rolled out a new version of its Flash-based player that builds upon the old one in several key areas. Besides being 25 percent larger than before and eschewing on-screen controls, it now features adaptive bitrate streaming, which will change the quality of the feed based on the live connection of the user.
...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27076_3-20004969-248.html
post #147 of 149
"flash is not the web."

What... a revelation.

Man that is just genius. Flash is simply one of lots of technologies used. It has it's pros and cons, but quite a few jack in the boxes get their panties in a bunch should anyone dare try to be somewhat objective about it.
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post #148 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Youtube, Hulu, ABC, CBS, and more every day.

Hulu: Not all all. They're sticking with Flash, saying HTML5 is inadequate for their needs (see above).


ABC: Going along with Apple only reluctantly, while executives there have referred to Apple's requirement that they spend thousands recoding their content that already works for everyone except iOS users "deeply annoying", and will continue to use Flash for some of their online content:
http://www.itnews.com.au/News/175652...-annoying.aspx



CBS: As of June 17, CBS is offering only a single show in what they refer to as a "small, little experiment", still very much in testing almost half a year after Jobs' announcement that the big players were spending so much money to show their content on his devices. Moreover, CBS also plans to stick with Flash for others not using iOS, and note problems finding tools that let them work as efficiently as they do with Flash:
Quote:
CBSi plans to move towards HTML5 parity with Flash video but first Soohoo and his team need to find the right mix of tools. It's not hard to offer the video in both versions but it's far more complicated than that.

"Our goal is over time at some point having content parity. The tools aren't mature yet - security needs to be there...".

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/17/...ivery-methods/



Meanwhile, NBC and TimeWarner are both sticking with Flash completely:
Quote:
Sources said several large media companies, including Time Warner and NBC Universal, told Apple they won't retool their extensive video libraries to accommodate the iPad, arguing that such a reformatting would be expensive and not worth it because Flash dominates the Web.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/busines...QOkAEn3lVNOX9O


Score so far: Some are spending all sorts of extra money to make their content play as well on iOS as it already does on every other system, others are holding back, and among those complying with Jobs' request include some of the biggest players in the industry who find it "deeply annoying" and are dragging their feet, and none appear to be ditching Flash entirely except Jobs himself.
post #149 of 149
Who here was saying Hulu wouldn't be coming to iOS devices because they were sticking with Flash?
http://www.hulu.com/watch/160617/hul...t-is-hulu-plus
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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