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Adobe ships Flash 10.1 to mobile device makers - Page 2

post #41 of 149
6/22/10 at 3:32pm
I don't understand the recent hype, I've had flash on my phone for weeks (Droid Incredable)

Basically preforms really well, except games run choppy. However it never seems to affect the phone, so scrolling and zooming are smooth, response time is the same. Games are somewhat unplayable at this point tho, only the lower end games can be played well. But Adobe did a great job not letting it affect the system, I noticed no performance drop when using flash even while running choppy games. Although this also could be great cpu management by android.

Web-based apps work great. For example I wanted to know how fast my internet connection is, and used http://www.speedtest.net/ which works flawless on my phone. I got around 2Mb/s DL and 0.4Mb/s with two bars 3G. Told me it was average for my ISP (Verizon). Cool.

This is a good example of an cross platform flash app (speedtest) as its already used on desktops and soon multiple mobile platforms. Basically a flash developer can make an App once and have it available to most all mobile devices + any other computer running flash.

Another advantage is that I can play any embedded video, whether it be from youtube or anywhere right from my browser. This has helped me a lot.

Overall Adobe did a great job, if you don't have flash yet you may not believe that they were able to implement it so well, but once you really try it out you'll see how smooth it runs. And I only have 2.1 so far, Android 2.2 is supposed to increase my performance by like 430% or something crazy.

I was very impressed. When I got flash about a month ago it completely changed the way I use my mobile device, it becomes closer to being a substation for a full blown computer every month. I think Apple is secretly refining it, and going to release is as a big feature of iOS 4.1 with really cool add features, that would be very Apple-like.
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post #42 of 149
6/22/10 at 3:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsak View Post

I don't understand the recent hype, I've had flash on my phone for weeks (Droid Incredable)

Basically preforms really well, except games run choppy. However it never seems to affect the phone, so scrolling and zooming are smooth, response time is the same. Games are somewhat unplayable at this point tho, only the lower end games can be played well. But Adobe did a great job not letting it affect the system, I noticed no performance drop when using flash even while running choppy games. Although this also could be great cpu management by android.

Web-based apps work great. For example I wanted to know how fast my internet connection is, and used http://www.speedtest.net/ which works flawless on my phone. I got around 2Mb/s DL and 0.4Mb/s with two bars 3G. Told me it was average for my ISP (Verizon). Cool.

This is a good example of an cross platform flash app (speedtest) as its already used on desktops and soon multiple mobile platforms. Basically a flash developer can make an App once and have it available to most all mobile devices + any other computer running flash.

Another advantage is that I can play any embedded video, whether it be from youtube or anywhere right from my browser. This has helped me a lot.

Overall Adobe did a great job, if you don't have flash yet you may not believe that they were able to implement it so well, but once you really try it out you'll see how smooth it runs. And I only have 2.1 so far, Android 2.2 is supposed to increase my performance by like 430% or something crazy.

I was very impressed. When I got flash about a month ago it completely changed the way I use my mobile device, it becomes closer to being a substation for a full blown computer every month. I think Apple is secretly refining it, and going to release is as a big feature of iOS 4.1 with really cool add features, that would be very Apple-like.

Thanks for the advertisement, Adobe employee.
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post #43 of 149
6/22/10 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post

Thanks for the advertisement, Adobe employee.

Lol Actually I just realized the Incredible runs flash lite 4, which shows up as 10.1 on adobes website but only runs flash 9 content and some of flash 10. Turns out Flash 10.1 increased graphics and sounds performance, so my gripes about choppy games may go away when 10.1 hits. From my experience with it, its well implemented, have you had the chance to test it out yet?
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post #44 of 149
6/22/10 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

If that's true (and not I'm saying it is or isn't) then Apple didn't make the decision to ban Flash from Appledom for the sake of its users, but did so for the sake of its business interests. Nothing wrong with that. But they should be honest about it.

agreed it was for business interests (less free flash game, more people buy apps).

someone said something about it improving and Apple excepting it- not happening due to apps

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post #45 of 149
6/22/10 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post

Remind me why Flash is necessary? Anyone?

Advertisements.

The fact that Google earns more advertising revenue from simple, nonintrusive text ads than the combined revenue of all newspaper and magazine advertisements seems to escape the idiots who pay for Flash ads though.

ClickToFlash ensures I never see them.

Then there's porn...
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post #46 of 149
6/22/10 at 4:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolbolas View Post

agreed it was for business interests (less free flash game, more people buy apps).

someone said something about it improving and Apple excepting it- not happening due to apps

This is true, Apple's business model with the iPhone is all App Store, all exclusive, all 30% cut. But with iAd looking like a success Apple can afford to embrace flash, as iAd revenue will make up for lost profit of the App Store. And flash will sell more phones == More Ad profit.

Apple getting into the Ad business mean they are going to start caring more about market share. iPhone platform is very profitable now, they can take some risks.
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post #47 of 149
6/22/10 at 4:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsak View Post

Web-based apps work great. For example I wanted to know how fast my internet connection is, and used http://www.speedtest.net/ which works flawless on my phone. I got around 2Mb/s DL and 0.4Mb/s with two bars 3G. Told me it was average for my ISP (Verizon). Cool.

Speedtest.net is a free app on the iOS platform, and launches way quicker than even on a desktop browser.

Having said that, I do wonder if the various media streaming sites in the Far East would ever decide to find a way to make their Flash-heavy content run on the iOS devices, case in point, http://mp3.baidu.com

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post #48 of 149
6/22/10 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In addition to banning Flash from its mobile Web browsers, Apple also changed the iPhone developer agreement to ban third-party tools that would allow software to be ported from other formats, like Adobe Flash, to native iPhone OS software.

bit of poor writing here. Because if it is native iOS software, there's no issue.

It is when you just slap a coat of native code on top of something iOS doesn't support, just as Flash or Java, that it is a problem.
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post #49 of 149
6/22/10 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsak View Post

But with iAd looking like a success Apple can afford to embrace flash, as iAd revenue will make up for lost profit of the App Store. And flash will sell more phones == More Ad profit.

The exclusion of Flash has nothing to do with seeing Flash as a threat and everything to do with seeing Flash as a hindrance to the iOS platform.

Think about it...

1) If Apple won't allow iOS 4.0 backgrounds on the 3G because of performance issues then why would they allow a power, performance and usability suck like Flash on iOS?

2) If Apple is so hell bent on forcing the App Store as the only way to run apps on the iPhone then why have they funded, adopted, made the most efficient and compliant web browser in the world with an incredible amount of documentation and additions to make it look and act like an iOS app?

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post #50 of 149
6/22/10 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Vast trove? Yes, those porn site operators do like to remain anonymous.

Riiiight. Unfortunately, for me, the CBC website live streams World Cup matches using a Flash Player. If somebody can point me to a website that uses an alternative I'd use that.

I don't get this insinuation that all Flash is porn. youtube uses Flash. Various media websites use Flash....and rightly or wrongly even websites like AI use Flash for ads.

For the end user like me, content is important. I just want to be able to watch some football. Is that so wrong?
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post #51 of 149
6/22/10 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

One thing to keep in mind is that this is a beta.

Let's see how this improves as time goes by.

I was curious if Adobe ever gave a release date?

Or is this Flash for mobile to be considered a 'perpetual beta'
even though Adobe might release new and improved Beta versions along the way!

Which if that is the case, would give Adobe an easy out if problems persist by allowing Adobe to say, "Hey, it's a Beta"!

Just wondering...

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post #52 of 149
6/22/10 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Riiiight. Unfortunately, for me, the CBC website live streams World Cup matches using a Flash Player. If somebody can point me to a website that uses an alternative I'd use that.

I don't get this insinuation that all Flash is porn. youtube uses Flash. Various media websites use Flash....and rightly or wrongly even websites like AI use Flash for ads.

For the end user like me, content is important. I just want to be able to watch some football. Is that so wrong?

YouTube, and most video sites, works without Flash.

Get a clue.
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post #53 of 149
6/22/10 at 5:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Riiiight. Unfortunately, for me, the CBC website live streams World Cup matches using a Flash Player. If somebody can point me to a website that uses an alternative I'd use that.

I don't get this insinuation that all Flash is porn. youtube uses Flash. Various media websites use Flash....and rightly or wrongly even websites like AI use Flash for ads.

For the end user like me, content is important. I just want to be able to watch some football. Is that so wrong?

I had the same problem with the world cup and having to work. This was the only time i ever wished flash was on my ipad but i got by using the justintv app. It wasn't the best quality but like you said it was better than nothing. (my boss is european and a big football fan so he was alright with it)
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post #54 of 149
6/22/10 at 6:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Riiiight. Unfortunately, for me, the CBC website live streams World Cup matches using a Flash Player. If somebody can point me to a website that uses an alternative I'd use that.

I don't get this insinuation that all Flash is porn. youtube uses Flash. Various media websites use Flash....and rightly or wrongly even websites like AI use Flash for ads.

For the end user like me, content is important. I just want to be able to watch some football. Is that so wrong?

Go ahead and watch football. Just not on a mobile phone - since almost no mobile phones have Flash and the ones that do are reportedly choppy and burn through batteries.

So far, I've never needed Flash on my iPhone, but if I ever did, I'd just use Logmein to get to my desktop computer and fire up Flash there.
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post #55 of 149
6/22/10 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The exclusion of Flash has nothing to do with seeing Flash as a threat and everything to do with seeing Flash as a hindrance to the iOS platform.

Think about it...

1) If Apple won't allow iOS 4.0 backgrounds on the 3G because of performance issues then why would they allow a power, performance and usability suck like Flash on iOS?

2) If Apple is so hell bent on forcing the App Store as the only way to run apps on the iPhone then why have they funded, adopted, made the most efficient and compliant web browser in the world with an incredible amount of documentation and additions to make it look and act like an iOS app?


1) Your right, flash would not run well on the 3G, or even the 3GS, or even the iPhone 4 depending on how the A4 is clocked. My results were from the droid incredible's 1Ghz snapdragon, very fast cpu which in my experience can run flash with no noticeable slow downs to the phone. While playing flash games I found scrolling and zooming to be smooth, and noticed no changed in response. No death drain on the battery either.

2) Because they can still control safari to provide content just shy of what a native app can do. HTML 5 can not emulate everything flash can provide. Also HTML 5 is still an interpreted language, unlike flash programs which can be compiled to machine code. HTML 5 can never be as efficient as flash when provide high end content.

Apple could certainly work with Adobe to get a great flash player on iOS, no doubt. Its whether flash fits into Apple's business model or whatever "vision" they have. But flash seems to work pretty good on android phones so far, can Apple do it better?
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post #56 of 149
6/22/10 at 7:05pm
What Jobs specifically said about his stance on Flash for the iPhone. Is that Apple has limited resources. Apple asked Adobe to show them something that could viably work on the iPhone and Adobe never was able. So Apple made the choice that HTML5 for mobile web development was a better option for Apple to pursue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

If that's true (and not I'm saying it is or isn't) then Apple didn't make the decision to ban Flash from Appledom for the sake of its users, but did so for the sake of its business interests. Nothing wrong with that. But they should be honest about it.
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post #57 of 149
6/22/10 at 7:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

... I don't get this insinuation that all Flash is porn. youtube uses Flash. Various media websites use Flash....and rightly or wrongly even websites like AI use Flash for ads. ...

Well, mostly I was making fun of your "vast trove" comment, which I think isn't really defensible given the nature of most flash content, even excluding porn. (And actually, I expect the porn vendors won't be that long in moving to HTML5.) I can't really think of much, if any, Flash content that I would consider a treasure.
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post #58 of 149
6/22/10 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

What Jobs specifically said about his stance on Flash for the iPhone. Is that Apple has limited resources. Apple asked Adobe to show them something that could viably work on the iPhone and Adobe never was able. So Apple made the choice that HTML5 for mobile web development was a better option for Apple to pursue.

Apple has "limited resources" ?? This is same company that said they have $40 billion they could liquidate in a day!! Plus they have $20-$30 billion in pure cash on hand! "Limited Resources"?? HA
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post #59 of 149
6/22/10 at 7:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsak View Post

1) Your right, flash would not run well on the 3G, or even the 3GS, or even the iPhone 4 depending on how the A4 is clocked. My results were from the droid incredible's 1Ghz snapdragon, very fast cpu which in my experience can run flash with no noticeable slow downs to the phone. While playing flash games I found scrolling and zooming to be smooth, and noticed no changed in response. No death drain on the battery either.

So far no review of Flash running on any Android phones have reported consistent performance that was that good.

Quote:
2) Because they can still control safari to provide content just shy of what a native app can do. HTML 5 can not emulate everything flash can provide. Also HTML 5 is still an interpreted language, unlike flash programs which can be compiled to machine code. HTML 5 can never be as efficient as flash when provide high end content.

Can you explain what you mean? HTML5 is rendered directly in the browser, browsers can make use of machine resources.

Quote:
Apple could certainly work with Adobe to get a great flash player on iOS, no doubt. Its whether flash fits into Apple's business model or whatever "vision" they have. But flash seems to work pretty good on android phones so far, can Apple do it better?

Steve Jobs has said a couple of times that he asked Adobe to give Apple something that works well and they never have.

If it works perfectly fine. Why is it only on one phone of one operating system?
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post #60 of 149
6/22/10 at 7:36pm
You feel you know Apple's resources better than Steve Jobs does? Apple has a lot of money but is not as physically as large a company Microsoft or HP or IBM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsak View Post

Apple has "limited resources" ?? This is same company that said they have $40 billion they could liquidate in a day!! Plus they have $20-$30 billion in pure cash on hand! "Limited Resources"?? HA
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post #61 of 149
6/22/10 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibeam View Post

Adobe is trying to pull one out of SJ's bag-o-tricks. Like Apple announced no Flash authoring for iPhone the day before CS5 was released.

Which invites us to ponder the question:

Was it purely coincidence that the Apple SDK team just happened to finalize their new license agreement immediately before the launch of Adobe CS5, or were they directed to hold it back until then to maximize the damage to Adobe?
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post #62 of 149
6/22/10 at 7:48pm
I have never seen a group of people so happy to NOT have something. At least a choice for something.

I don't know how important Flash will be on mobiles but on desktops, it's big. I don't know what everyone else is doing with the Net for business but I've seen numerous industries, consulting services, engineering, education, internal use, media industry, geospatial applications, government, etc. etc. that absolutely rely on Flash to deploy applications over the Net. Flash is not going away any time soon. It may actually start to be bad for Apple if they don't let Adobe create Flash for iPhone. They should have it as a downloadable options perhaps while it gets tuned up, and not on it by default. That way people who don't want it, don't have it. I don't understand why people hate Flash. How else do people propose deploying interactive maps, video with ads (those are needed to pay for TV) like Hulu, and interactive websites? Although Adobe certainly has to get get serious about Flash player on Macs. It does suck on Macs. Perhaps Steve should let them experiment with it on iPhone and it can be approved by Apple when it is up to Apple's performance standards.
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post #63 of 149
6/22/10 at 7:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Can you explain what you mean? HTML5 is rendered directly in the browser, browser can make use of machine resources.?

HTML 5 is whats called an interpreted computer language. HTML is received as code and must be read like a script while running. Flash on the other hand is a compiled computer language. A compiled computer language is in machine code, ready to be executed by the machine.

Compiled languages require the code to be recompiled each time to edit it but are faster, smaller, and in the case of Flash is more consistent across browsers. While HTML can be "half correct" and displays differently depending on what browser you use.

Flash player is a program and has the same access to the hardware that the browser does. An exception would be OS X where Apple has tighter controls over what 3D and 2D hardware acceleration programs can use, resulting in flash having less tools than Safari which has full access to hardware acceleration. But other wise both the browser and the flash player has access to hardware acceleration if it exist.

Because flash is compiled, in rich content like apps and games, flash will always be more efficient than HTML 5. Flash also offers more functionality of HTML and is more consistent across different browsers and platforms. HTML 5 is simply an upgrade to current HTML and does not compete with flash. In fact many of Apple's HTML 5 demo's do not demonstrate HTML 5 but CSS and JavaScript which are both interpreted also.

There is no Open Source competitor to flash.

Apple could (if they wanted) open up the iphone for Adobe to make a highly efficient version of flash for the iPhone. They chose not too but can still change their mind. Apple always has tighter control over what software developers can do on their platform. Without Apple opening up their device to Adobe theres no way Adobe could of ever made an efficient flash player. However Jobs could simply come out and say "though we still support open standards some us unfortunately need flash" and release an Apple flash, and give benchmarks that show its faster. Adobe's flash on android can be efficient because they have all access to the open source software.

Its not like you can't support HTML5 and open standards and support flash, Google does. If iAd is successful its not like lost App Store revenue would matter.
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post #64 of 149
6/22/10 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

I have never seen a group of people so happy to NOT have something. At least a choice for something.

I don't know how important Flash will be on mobiles but on desktops, it's big. I don't know what everyone else is doing with the Net for business but I've seen numerous industries, consulting services, engineering, education, internal use, media industry, geospatial applications, government, etc. etc. that absolutely rely on Flash to deploy applications over the Net. Flash is not going away any time soon. It may actually start to be bad for Apple if they don't let Adobe create Flash for iPhone. They should have it as a downloadable options perhaps while it gets tuned up, and not on it by default. That way people who don't want it, don't have it. I don't understand why people hate Flash. How else do people propose deploying interactive maps, video with ads (those are needed to pay for TV) like Hulu, and interactive websites? Although Adobe certainly has to get get serious about Flash player on Macs. It does suck on Macs. Perhaps Steve should let them experiment with it on iPhone and it can be approved by Apple when it is up to Apple's performance standards.

And yeah we get that a lot of coincidentally important stuff is run thru Flash - mostly because it was cheaper and easier than coding it from the ground up. But its the content delivered that is the critical part, not the delivery mechanism.

Adobe failed to deliver to Apple and then went into panic mode when SJ called them on it. What you see when you see them calling for "choice" is actually them calling for monetization of a tool they tried to kill following their acquisition of Macromedia. But - it turned out, a lot of people were using it, so they ended up supporting it - with less staffing than any other toolset they produce. So now as they realize that Apple is sitting on a huge pile of money in the mobile space they are whining for their share. Period. This isn't ideological, it isn't even philosophical, its ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! It's what Adobe wants, its what Google wants and lookie there Apple has built a successful ecosystem that is highly monetized and hugely profitable. But Adobe pissed around on solving the runtime issues for Flash (finally devoting enough staff and resources to produce Flash 10) for the Mac platform - demonstrating conclusively to Apple that they couldn't prioritize their way out of a wet paper sack. So who the heck would want as much content as Flash delivers dependent on a poorly managed company like Adobe?
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post #65 of 149
6/22/10 at 9:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsak View Post

HTML 5 is whats called an interpreted computer language. HTML is received as code and must be read like a script while running. Flash on the other hand is a compiled computer language. A compiled computer language is in machine code, ready to be executed by the machine.

Compiled languages require the code to be recompiled each time to edit it but are faster, smaller, and in the case of Flash is more consistent across browsers. While HTML can be "half correct" and displays differently depending on what browser you use.

Flash player is a program and has the same access to the hardware that the browser does. An exception would be OS X where Apple has tighter controls over what 3D and 2D hardware acceleration programs can use, resulting in flash having less tools than Safari which has full access to hardware acceleration. But other wise both the browser and the flash player has access to hardware acceleration if it exist.

Because flash is compiled, in rich content like apps and games, flash will always be more efficient than HTML 5. Flash also offers more functionality of HTML and is more consistent across different browsers and platforms. HTML 5 is simply an upgrade to current HTML and does not compete with flash. In fact many of Apple's HTML 5 demo's do not demonstrate HTML 5 but CSS and JavaScript which are both interpreted also.

There is no Open Source competitor to flash.

Apple could (if they wanted) open up the iphone for Adobe to make a highly efficient version of flash for the iPhone. They chose not too but can still change their mind. Apple always has tighter control over what software developers can do on their platform. Without Apple opening up their device to Adobe theres no way Adobe could of ever made an efficient flash player. However Jobs could simply come out and say "though we still support open standards some us unfortunately need flash" and release an Apple flash, and give benchmarks that show its faster. Adobe's flash on android can be efficient because they have all access to the open source software.

Its not like you can't support HTML5 and open standards and support flash, Google does. If iAd is successful its not like lost App Store revenue would matter.

That is such crap Balsak. Adobe sat on their thumbs for YEARS with minimal staffing AND assistance from Apple, making lame excuses for why they needed access to the calls they wanted. They didn't want to do it any other way because it worked just fine in Windows that way. Adobe can't innovate, and they are running scared because Apple is suddenly in the superior position and they were caught sleeping while mobile devices became popular. The best they could do was the lame and crippled Flash Lite for feature phones. Hello - they realized that they had a tool they could leverage millions out of, but for the fact that they weren't throwing any money or staffing at it. Perhaps Apple is working on a better solution. Perhaps they are using the rhetoric to light a fire under Adobe to see if they can produce. I personally don't think that Adobe management has the fortitude to really bring forward Flash to be a truly mobile platform utility and delivery mechanism. But I am willing to be proven wrong. All I have to do is wait and see how this all shakes out.
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post #66 of 149
6/22/10 at 9:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsak View Post

HTML 5 is whats called an interpreted computer language. HTML is received as code and must be read like a script while running. Flash on the other hand is a compiled computer language. A compiled computer language is in machine code, ready to be executed by the machine.

Compiled languages require the code to be recompiled each time to edit it but are faster, smaller, and in the case of Flash is more consistent across browsers. While HTML can be "half correct" and displays differently depending on what browser you use.

Flash player is a program and has the same access to the hardware that the browser does. An exception would be OS X where Apple has tighter controls over what 3D and 2D hardware acceleration programs can use, resulting in flash having less tools than Safari which has full access to hardware acceleration. But other wise both the browser and the flash player has access to hardware acceleration if it exist.

Because flash is compiled, in rich content like apps and games, flash will always be more efficient than HTML 5.

Then maybe you can explain why my system goes to 120% CPU usage when accessing a Flash site, but not any html sites. The facts don't fit your theory - I'll stick with the facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

I have never seen a group of people so happy to NOT have something. At least a choice for something.

That ought to tell you just how bad Flash is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

So far no review of Flash running on any Android phones have reported consistent performance that was that good.

Can you explain what you mean? HTML5 is rendered directly in the browser, browsers can make use of machine resources.

Steve Jobs has said a couple of times that he asked Adobe to give Apple something that works well and they never have.

If it works perfectly fine. Why is it only on one phone of one operating system?

It doesn't work perfectly fine. On Macs, it stinks. On Linux, it stinks. On Windows, it's marginally acceptable. On mobile devices, it's essentially non-existent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsak View Post

Apple has "limited resources" ?? This is same company that said they have $40 billion they could liquidate in a day!! Plus they have $20-$30 billion in pure cash on hand! "Limited Resources"?? HA

Either Apple's resources are limited or they're unlimited. Are you arguing that their resources are unlimited? That would be foolish.

While Apple does have very extensive resources, much of their success in recent years has been due to the efficiency of their R&D effort - and their acting like resources are miniscule. Jobs is sending a message internally as well as externally - Apple succeeds by getting maximum return from minimum R&D effort.

Not to mention, of course, that it's not Apple's job to fix Adobe's crappy code. I doubt if Adobe would let them even if they asked.
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post #67 of 149
6/23/10 at 1:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsak View Post

HTML 5 is whats called an interpreted computer language. HTML is received as code and must be read like a script while running. Flash on the other hand is a compiled computer language. A compiled computer language is in machine code, ready to be executed by the machine.

Compiled languages require the code to be recompiled each time to edit it but are faster, smaller, and in the case of Flash is more consistent across browsers. While HTML can be "half correct" and displays differently depending on what browser you use.

This is mainly because people do not understand HTML was never intended as a WYSIWYG format and yet for some insane insipid dumber than a hunk of concrete they treat it as such. It certainly didn't help that lazy HTML writer exploited bugs in browsers and then cry rivers of tears when the next update broke their website 24 ways to next Sunday.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsak View Post

Because flash is compiled, in rich content like apps and games, flash will always be more efficient than HTML 5.

Snort giggle, cackle, ROFLOL. Ok, I am... snort giggle, cackle, ROFLOL. Excuse me but I... BAHAHAHAHA. This guy is totally clueless.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsak View Post

There is no Open Source competitor to flash.

Ajax Animator, UIRA, SWF files created via swfmill, SWFTools, MTASC, and Ming library (C, PHP, C++, Perl, Python, and Ruby. haXe) come to mind. Just what rock has this guy been under?
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post #68 of 149
6/23/10 at 2:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post

Too late, Adobe! Flash on mobile devices is unneeded and unwanted. Most sites have switched to HTML5. Games are freely available in app stores.

Remind me why Flash is necessary? Anyone?

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I've accomplished my childhood's dream: My job consists mainly of playing with toys all day long.
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post #69 of 149
6/23/10 at 2:51am
OMG! Full web experience in your pocket
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post #70 of 149
6/23/10 at 4:29am
I played around with it last night. When you change the browser setting for Flash to "on demand" both browser and system performance improve markedly, since it's now essentially click2flash. So the webpage lagginess is gone.

That said, any page where you are running lots of Flash particularly video does slow everything down. Essentially some user management is called for if you are running Flash.
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post #71 of 149
6/23/10 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

So far no review of Flash running on any Android phones have reported consistent performance that was that good.



Can you explain what you mean? HTML5 is rendered directly in the browser, browsers can make use of machine resources.



Steve Jobs has said a couple of times that he asked Adobe to give Apple something that works well and they never have.

If it works perfectly fine. Why is it only on one phone of one operating system?

do you think anyone would listen, or care if someone did report it ran well? It's the man bites dog vs dog bite man thing.

I've had it run very well, not any choppier than I've seen stuff run on my iphone, and don't see the battery or performance issues a few blogs point to. I hear the same thing from the other developers I know. But, I and my peers ain't the whole world so it doesn't say much, other I think those few blogs know full well that the click throughs on their "damning reports" on flash running horribly will pay off well for them. And certainly, speaking of er, "shills", lots will promote them for free, happily.

Truthfully, it is indeed showtime for adobe. It's time for them to move from limited tests, demonstrations etc. It's time for the users to start using it, and time will tell.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #72 of 149
6/23/10 at 5:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

I have never seen a group of people so happy to NOT have something. At least a choice for something. ...

Not having Flash is a lot like testing negative for an STD.
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post #73 of 149
6/23/10 at 5:50am
Premise:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsak View Post

HTML 5 is whats called an interpreted computer language. HTML is received as code and must be read like a script while running. Flash on the other hand is a compiled computer language. A compiled computer language is in machine code, ready to be executed by the machine.

Conclusion:

Quote:
Because flash is compiled, in rich content like apps and games, flash will always be more efficient than HTML 5.

If flash content were compiled to machine code a) why would you need a player, and b) it wouldn't run on multiple platforms. (OK, he could almost be right if we take (b) as a defining test.)

Your premise is false, your conclusion incorrect as well as unsupported, and you really shouldn't be writing about stuff you have no clue about. You aren't doing yourself or Flash any favors.
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post #74 of 149
6/23/10 at 6:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Premise:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsak View Post

HTML 5 is whats called an interpreted computer language. HTML is received as code and must be read like a script while running. Flash on the other hand is a compiled computer language. A compiled computer language is in machine code, ready to be executed by the machine.

Conclusion:



If flash content were compiled to machine code a) why would you need a player, and b) it wouldn't run on multiple platforms. (OK, he could almost be right if we take (b) as a defining test.)

Your premise is false, your conclusion incorrect as well as unsupported, and you really shouldn't be writing about stuff you have no clue about. You aren't doing yourself or Flash any favors.

speaking of people who write stuff about what they don't know anything about.

Go do some research about flash and machine code.

Now, I'm not wading into the html5/CSS3/javascript vs flash performance debate, but this whole looky I'm smart on a forum cause a read blog nonsense is just tiring.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #75 of 149
6/23/10 at 6:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsak View Post

I was very impressed. When I got flash about a month ago it completely changed the way I use my mobile device, it becomes closer to being a substation for a full blown computer every month. I think Apple is secretly refining it, and going to release is as a big feature of iOS 4.1 with really cool add features, that would be very Apple-like.

Steve has poisoned the well. No Flash for us! Ever!
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post #76 of 149
6/23/10 at 6:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

do you think anyone would listen, or care if someone did report it ran well? ...

No, we wouldn't, because Flash is outdated technology that is holding back progress. It needs to die so the web can progress.

This is a pattern repeated over and over again with technologies, just like fossil fuel technology needs to die so that energy technology can progress. Resistance to change isn't anything new, and changes can be uncomfortable, even painful, but they have to be put to rest so we can advance to something better.
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post #77 of 149
6/23/10 at 6:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

speaking of people who write stuff about what they don't know anything about.

Go do some research about flash and machine code.

So you're claiming that Flash files are machine code?
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post #78 of 149
6/23/10 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsak View Post

have you had the chance to test it out yet?

Most people here are content to believe it does not work. It cannot possibly be any good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes
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post #79 of 149
6/23/10 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post


Remind me why Flash is necessary? Anyone?

To see the embedded videos in Google News. I wouldn't want to give that up.

Not to mention all the other compelling video content that has not yet been (and never will be) converted.
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post #80 of 149
6/23/10 at 6:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtotes View Post

Funny. I suspect the world would still be waiting for mobile Flash if SJ hadn't made such a public deal of it not being released.



Wow. So the vast majority of smartphone users will be happy that the Apple minority was screaming about how sour the grapes were!

Ironic, ain't it?
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