Hackers release 'jailbreak' of iOS 4 for Apple's iPhone 3GS - Page 2

I'm chomping at the bit to get my iphone 4 jailbroken. Why?

SBSettings - easy, simple access by swiping across the status bar to tons of system toggles, a little calculator, a mini notepad. This *was* key to having rotation lock before, but it's not so important for that measure anymore. It's still going to be great for turning on/off wifi and airplane mode, and changing the screen brightness easily.

LockInfo - view my calendar, unread emails/texts, time and weather forecast all on the lockscreen, with easy access to replies and mail previews, all directly from the lock screen. It is truly awesome, and I can't believe apple hasn't implemented it. Also, double click on home button to have a full-brightness 'flashlight' instantly.

Weathericon - weather in the status bar at all times

AutoSilent - syncs with my iphone calendar to turn ringer off when I'm in meetings, as well as during the night. It's amazingly configurable, and great.

There are others, but those four make my phone incredibly more usable than a vanilla iphone.

His plan does allow him to do what he is doing. His device, as shipped, does not.


Absolutely, it is a great example of what you are talking about and just how wrong headed your thought process actually is.

BTW, feeling entitled to something you are actually entitled to (and pay for) is pretty normal. Anarchist idea, I know.




Again, you are right, some people do seem to be missing their own sense of right and wrong. It is pretty pathetic when they need to turn to a corporation to provide it for them. (In this case, even that isn't a tenable argument, since his carrier allows him to tether his iPad).

You are not arguing right or wrong. You are arguing legal or illegal. Again, he is paying for his data. What exactly is he stealing? Potential lost earnings from a service in which they do nothing for that service?

Where do you draw the line exactly? Are you American? What do you think of the American Revolution? That was against British law. The French Revolution?

You seem to keep confusing morality and legality.

Your terms of service are different. I"m referring to people who admit that they're violating their terms of service.

My position is clear. If you sign a contract that allows you to do something and you do it, you're clearly not a thief-and I didn't imply that you were (you are, of course, breaking your warranty terms with Apple so lose the right to have warranty service)

OTOH, if you sign a contract that says you can do A for $a or B for $b (where $b > $a), and you pay $a but then choose to do B, then you're stealing the excess service. That was exactly the case for the person who I said was stealing the service. In his case $b was 100 UK pounds greater than $a, so he just took B after paying for A.

No amount of rationalization changes that fact.

Again, this conversation is headed towards something that reminds me of a piece on Fox News about the legalization of marijuana, and how dangerous and addictive weed is for children.

Really, to those who think jailbreaking is wrong: Oh well. You can't stop it and it's not your business to.

To those who don't have any issue with jailbreaking: Ignore the ones who do. They don't understand, and they are exactly the type of nitwits who were so eager to be hallway monitor back in elementary school, or who would tell on anyone about anything that seemed even mildly wrong.

The discussion over the justification of jailbreaking is just so moronic I can't even begin to describe in words how irritating it is to read.

Glad that we are finally starting to see eye to eye, just confirm though you did call me a thief without checking your facts:

"I'm only assuming that you're stealing because you're flat out admitting it. The fact that you pay to tether your laptop doesn't give you the right to use tethering on your iPad.

You are not paying to tether your iPad. You admit that the service is available, but you don't like the cost ("I saw no reason as to why I should pay an extra £100 for an iPad (not including a monthly £10 a month contract) just to use mobile internet on it.")

So you're using a service you didn't pay for. Don't play this crapola 'poor me, I'm so misunderstood' game. You know what you're doing and are simply trying to rationalize why it's OK.

Like it or not, you're a thief."

Happy to call it quits mate, I just hate it when people call me out for no reason, I have to accept your warranty point, but I'll live with it.

Um, was weed on a big sale today?

The person you are replying to, was the person you called a thief. Repeatedly.

The $b in your faulty equation there, was the 3G iPad differential. he chose notto pay that since he was already paying for tethering on his 3G iPhone. You called him a thief. I see now that you were confused. Doesn't justify the personal attacks though.

I'm using a legal, factory-unlocked phone and legally have tethering enabled.

I have jailbroken my phone in the past mainly for themes (Winterboard) which is great, and most useful, is Veency, so that I can demo my iPhone screen (to new iPhone users) on the projector through my MacBook Aluminum.

App pirating? Not me. I don't use much apps anyways.

I can NOT jailbreak my iPhone 3GS with OS4 because it has the new bootrom and also I previously jailbreak'd with Spirit.

I may not jailbreak, I like the phone snappy and stable right now.

Thief.

It doesn't matter. In his mind he believes the person should have bought the 3G version and paid for that data plan as well.

He believes everything that is legal is right and everything that is illegal (or on the gray) is wrong. Morality has different standards for different people.

I'm glad he doesn't know Jobs' bio or that would be great disappointment. There has been no other man in tech who has walked the gray line more in the first half of his life.

Maybe they just want to run apps that Steve and his moral police say no to. Whether that be because they were coded in a "forbidden" language and then cross-compiled, or maybe the material is offensive to Steve's sensibilities. Doesn't matter to me one way or the other since I don't jailbreak. I do support the activitivity though. It is an action that is core to our countries inovative nature. Steve himself started out that way. And I am certain that Apple and co have watched the advancements of the jailbreaks and figured out ways to make it native and work correctly. They'd deny it of course. Preventing the act of jailbreaking to me would seem to be illegal. It would be like preventing you from putting a performance exhaust on your car because they car manufacturer is offended by the sound that it creates. Let the jailbreakers continue their work, and realize that all things can be used for bad activities just as easily as they can be used for good ones.

Except in this case, the OP, saarek, was in the right, both legally and morally. That is what made jragosta's repeated personal attacks on him so uncalled for that they go far into the bizarre. Even after he was repeatedly corrected, he kept up the name calling and confusion. He has seemingly finally jumped the shark and joined Hiro, et all in some bizarro world.

It's funny with Jobs because he is proud of that past. In the classic iPhone keynote where there was a demo issue he talked briefly about the Blue Boxes which were literally stealing from AT&T ironically.

And yes, Apple has used dev community ideas and have even tried to use one of their icons.

I LOL'd That big back flip was so big you must be dizzy now!

I guarantee you I'm way more offended by stupid people than you ever will be by jail-breakers... unfortunately we can't always get what we want!

I agree with you but it's fairly easy to see where jragosta is coming from and you won't convince him. He views morality and legality as being the same thing. While legally he clearly has a legitimate argument, morally it is far from clear (I think he's wrong).

You won't convince him or others and get an apology. Sometimes it's best to agree to disagree.

I jailbreak to run SBSETTINGS, MXTUBE and the google voice app.

MXTUBE allows me to download a video ONCE from Youtube and watch it over and over again without re-downloading it. This app actually saves ATT a ton of bandwidth.

MXTUBE does not allow me to get any video that I could not already get on Youtube anyhow since it only downloads from Youtube.

I have no pirated apps.

Apple won't do it. Why? There are a lot of stupid people in this world and if Apple gives the OK then they have to deal with the support calls from those screwing up their phone.

They'll pretty much look the other way but they don't want this as the standard. They're trying to extend themselves to the average consumer and make the OS as simple as possible to understand. They've been quite successful at it.

All universal attributions are wrong. Think about it.

When posters cite everyone/no one, all [name your sub-category of humanity], or use statements like "you all are" it is an invitation to disregard pretty much anything that follows as false. It becomes a convenient filter flag, and allows anyone who cares to dynamically filter the more bozo'd entries in these threads.

So saarek, while you have practical considerations that drive your justification to jail-break, note that you specifically ARE justifying it. That is, you are defending a questionable activity with reasons WHY it should be allowed or supported. Which is fine - but don't expect universal moral support for it either - right?

So your argument isthat taking without permission and with explicit acknowledgment that you don't have permission is in no way stealing?

LOL

So when he pays for a internet service thru any provider he has in the UK, connects it to a router, is he stealing internet for his iPad? That is what he is doing with his iPhone. Turning it into a router. He is PAYING for the tethering service on his iPhone therefore he has a valid data plan and the courier of his choice knows he is sharing the 3G service with other devices.

The simple fact that he had to jailbreak his phone to get the software to do this doesn't mean he is stealing any services for getting internet to his iPad.

Remember, that some people want easier ways or don't have home internet, or take the iPad on the go all the time. This is why there are seperate plans for the iPad. However that doesn't mean it is the only legit way to get the services.

BTW, for those pointing fingers, I hope your life is squeaky clean, obey every traffic law, city by-law, state (province or whatever) law.

What I feel is sad are those who know they are wrong, but ego/pride gets in the way and they have to continue to argue or defend their point without saying a simple word. "Sorry".

So, just so we're clear - my 32GB 3Gs that I bought on launch day and have never JB'd can or cannot be JB'd with this?

I only care because I'm thinking about selling it on eBay to finance a new iPhone 4 and non- JB'd iPhones aren't worth crap (relatively speaking).

And also the type of nitwits who are having their apps massively pirated.

Is it strange that nobody has yet just called jragosta out for trolling?

Seems pretty clear that's what he's doing imo.

I thought he meant that ragosta didn't know whether he was potentially breaking his contract but he was quick to call him a thief.

I don't think what the UK guy did is stealing. He wasn't taking something without permission but rather taking something that already belonged to him. He is paying for two data plans. Something tells me the carrier won't be cancelling his plans considering he giving them good cash within the bounds of the cap.

I respect your opinion but it surprises how many defend carriers even though they're morally wrong. You questioned AT&T about this as well. To me, right does not always equate with legality. Sometimes you need to Think Different.

His using it in no way justifying how others use it. You use the internet. So do pedos. Doesn't mean you are 'justifying' their activities on the internet. I use iTunes to rip my CDs. Some pirates so as well. Doesn't mean my justifying my usage is also justifying theirs.

very few of those with the 'holier than thou' attitude here have apps that are being pirated. Some might. Most don't.

They deplore the theft, even though they are not direct victims of the theft?
That seems correct to me.

Can you tether over wifi with an unjailbroken phone? Why is AT&T charging for a service that your phone, not AT&T provides? I'm glad the carriers in Canada aren't charging for that yet.

I had my iPhone jailbroken for a while and purchased apps from Cydia and Rock, never once did I download a pirated app. I didn't even look into how to do so, because that wasn't why I jailbroke my iPhone. Remain ignorant if you want, but there is more to jailbreaking than pirated apps, even after iOS 4.

Speaking of thinking different, I don't consider stealing to black and white issue. I don't consider it automatically immoral or illegal. I see nothing criminal about breaking your contract with a carrier trying to get more than you originally agreed to. I've made mention to my excessive unauthorized tethering on this site more than a few times.

The difference is that I also don't feel entitled to break a contract simply because I no longer choose to abide by it. If AT&T had canceled or throttled my account because of my 40GB per month usage then that is their right. It would have sucked but I am realize the risk I was taking.

Again, I said nothing about stealing did I? Nor did I point fingers - and yet you demonstrated as conclusively as I could have wanted the immediate defensiveness, and ends/means justification. Let's look at the logic train in your statements above:

He has an iPhone he WANTS software that will allow him to do something. Now none of this puts food on the table, provides medicine when he's sick or keeps the roof over his head - so we are not talking about basic survival needs, but WANTS. So it doesn't get graced with anything other than a desire to do something - a moral grey area. And again you state "Remember, that some people want easier ways or don't have home internet, or take the iPad on the go all the time. This is why there are seperate plans for the iPad. However that doesn't mean it is the only legit way to get the services."

Here you have resorted to the "WANT" meme yet again. And then, instead of simply shrugging and saying "it's what he wanted to do" and leaving it at that (against the detractors) you launch into an entirely unnecessary


If you are doing something that you desired to do because you desired to do it, and it is not hurting anyone else (that you know of), IOW, you are not setting out to deliberately harm or defraud someone else, why all the scrambling to defend and justify and deflect? Isn't it much easier to simply grin and say "yep I did it. It works for me and I'm not hurting anyone else. "

Let the rules OCD'd posters rant and spittle and gibber and froth all they want - if you are satisfied with the end result of acting on your desires - then enjoy the satisfaction and ignore the rest. BUT, if you have the niggling little voice in the back of your head that joins in the chorus of accusations, then what you have done is not right, and you know it, and no amount of deflection and defensiveness and justification will change that and you are being false to yourself as well. Especially if you find yourself reacting negatively to the accusations - a sure sign you are uncertain as to the acceptability of the behavior.

Jailbreaking is not what Apple desires, but do their desires weigh more than your own? Probably not. This is the easy stuff. The rest is just gassin' about stupid stuff.

Don't move the goal posts now. We were talking about people being 'hall monitors' with respect to the attitude towards jailbreakers in general.

No, these people deplore people engaging in activities that might possibly be used for theft and therefore equate that everyone engages in those activities to thieves.

You use the internet and iTunes, I guess. You must be a thief. Thieves use both of those.

+1.

That's the exact reason I jailbroke after 3 years of not doing it. The 1st poster commented about people stealing services they should be paying for...how about those who have paid for a service and are now being asked to pay again? Charging for tethering when the user is below the data usage limit is a joke and theft on the part of the provider. I already pay for that usage. How I use it should be up to me.

But what a silly first entry to have made in the forum. Try to come up with something a little better for your next one - something a little pithier, perhaps a humorous story, a personal reflection or even a morality tale. Perhaps along the lines of:

"A funny thing happened to me on the way to the ATT store. I met a AI forum poster who loved to jailbreak his phone, but didn't pirate apps. Funny thing was he had an eyepatch. And a wooden leg. And a parrot on his shoulder. And now that I think about it, he looked an awful lot like Jack Sparrow - on a good day. But there weren't any stolen apps on his iPhone - he showed me. After he went on his way though, I noticed a couple of apps missing from MY iPhone. Strange hunh?"

Something like that.

Grrrrr look at me!!!! I'm a pirate!!!!!










(page 2 of my dock)






(old 2.x when I still had an iPhone 3G)







Oh wait... guess I'm not.

There's plenty of reasons to jailbreak, not all of us steal software. iOS4 gets rid of many reasons to jailbreak, but until there's an official option to install whatever someone chooses, there's a;ways going to be INNOVATIVE apps available on alternative stores. Please don't group us together as a band of pirates.

I love the DevTeam. They are a great bunch of guys providing a valuable service.

I do not condone theft of software or theft of anything. Jailbreaking is 1) NOT illegal, 2) is NOT theft, and 3) allows functionality that Steve Jobs doesn't think we should have.

I have recently been getting scammer calls on my cell phone. I've checked the Internet for the numbers and indeed some scammer is using spoofed VOiP numbers to make calls and try to get credit card numbers. I'm on the DoNotCall registry list, but these people aren't legitimate anyway. I was getting several calls a week from 7am to 11pm. Steve Jobs doesn't seem to want to allow an app that would blacklist phone numbers. iBlacklist tothe rescue - available only from Cydia to jailbroken iPhones. I paid for the app and now I have successfully blocked several numbers. No more scammer calls wasting my time or minutes.

I pay for an unlimited data plan. AT&T contracted with me for unlimited data and I pay them for this. When the iPhone was first released, AT&T and Apple promised tethering. They did not live up to their promise. IMO, AT&T and Apple would be guilty of breach of promise. I'm pretty suprised that some lawyer hasn't filed a class action lawsuit. But then, I'm not a lawyer. So MyFi to the rescue - available from Cydia (to jailbroken iPhones). I tether about once every other month, but when I do, I need to. Aside from that, I'm still operating on my original contract with AT&T. It doesn't say I can't tether.

Three cheers for DevTeam for allowing me (and others) the ability to change and enhance our purchased product the way we want.

That's pretty impressive.

Maybe that is where you and I disagree in respect to tethering. I don't believe it is up to carriers to charge whatever they like for data you purchased.

In the case of AT&T they are charging you just because they can. They are doing nothing to give you feature. In fact it is Apple who has limited this feature in the US. I don't consider stealing what a company did nothing to earn and then charge for it.

You know this is the case with AT&T. Just because it's legal for a company to rob us doesn't make it right. There are gray lines in this issue is always easy to cross but I believe that carriers have clearly crossed it because they could. This is not considering that they have lobbyists that prevent regulation in these areas. I would never refuse fellow iPhone users because of the greed of AT&T.

Sometimes a little rebellion is necessary otherwise the system is beneficial to the haves against the have-nots. This is the reference to Think Different.

As I asked jragosta, if everything legal is moral, what about the American Revolution, French Recolution & segregation? Sometimes the status-quo needs to be challenged.

And let me translate the above into more traditional pirate language:

"Avast ye thar! We's got to free ar iPhones damme for a lubber else! Belike we's not stealin' softwarez, matey we's legit mariners, all free enterprise an' the like! Summ'us e'en got's letters of marque damm yer eyes! The guvner a' Cupertino done made it easier fer us to make a livin' as honest seamen yar, but until we'uns gets ar pardons and such, we'll ply the seas to make sure that thar aren't too many free-roamin' app lackin' fer PROPER seamanlike use else! An' we'uns aren'y no pirates no sir! We're freebootin' privateer traders we are! We got's rules *nudge* well, more like guidelines, and belong to the Distributed Enterprise Voleurs Transportation Eschalon Association of Merchants! Arrrrrrrrr."

there. Much better.

Ah, stealing comes in only black and white options. ATT is apparently out of the white version.

I see what you did there.