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Some iPhone 4 launch units lose signal when held with left hand - Page 4

post #121 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Park Seward View Post

If I cup my iPhone 4 with both hands, touching the metal bands, I saw the bars increase by one and then slowly decrease. Took about a minute and a half to drop the call.

But my signal here has always been poor on my 1st gen phone so I'd like to try this in an area that has stronger signal strength. In fact, sitting here, the iPhone 4 goes from full bars to one by itself. Is that AT&T or the phone?

If I hold the phone in my left hand like I would when making a call, no change in the bars.

Try putting a finger in one ear and holding the other hand out of a window... Oh, better hold the phone in your teeth ...

Sorry, just teasing. I believe you. Seriously, I suspect as you cupped it a solar wind blew through and the signal dipped.
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post #122 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

It is simply not plausible that something so fundamental as the hand interfering with the external antenna bands would not have been tested and re-tested in every possible situation. When rolling out an entirely new way to implement antennas, this would be job one. Apple (Jobs) is obsessive/compulsive when it comes to getting hardware right. Suggestions that field testing with a camouflaged 3Gs case prevented them from discovering the hand "shorting out" the antenna plates are foolish.

Yeah, they probably have the thing configured to use the least amount of battery possible. In a high signal strength location, no problem, but in a marginal area it might be susceptible to drop calls. They can likely just pump up the power a bit with a software update to overcome this. The dropped calls demonstrated in the video could be caused by the iPhone not transmitting with enough with power.

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post #123 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:33am
For what it is worth, since many people seem to be worried about it, I got my iPhone 4 yesterday morning and have had no issues whatsoever. I know this is just my experience, but it means all units are not affected!
Damn mojo wire, this thing never works right!
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Damn mojo wire, this thing never works right!
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post #124 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by callumacrae View Post

So I'm the only right handed person who holds it in my left hand? I type with my right hand.

~Callum

I think when you are typing (I.e. surfing or texting) you won't really notice as much as you don't necessarily need constant connection, at least not the same as phone calls. If you lose connection even for a second while on a phone call then it is dropped. SO I think people are talking about this in terms of which had they hold the phone with during a call as opposed ot when typing.
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post #125 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:36am
I took mine out to test this in various locations, but I seem to have lost it. Last time I saw it, I had it in a bar near Redwood City. Anyone had any problems in that location?
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post #126 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Assuming there is any validity of course, I am sure Apple will respond. If not they will ignore it for sure.

Well, regardless of the cause, I think they need to respond, even if it's just to say, "Here's what's going on, it's not a big deal, ..." Silence in something this high profile is just fodder for misinformation.
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post #127 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:39am
My original iPhone fluctuated when you pick it up too. Guess what? The human body is conductive. A few times when I picked up my iPhone 4, the signal improved. I work in a rural city and my original iPhone barely got 1-2 bars on Edge. With my iPhone 4, I get 3-4 bars on 3G. So in my experience, I have better reception than the earlier model.

Leave to engadget and gizmodo to spread FUD.
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post #128 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:42am
I can confirm it with my brand new iPhone 4 that I picked up this morning from the AT&T store. Holding the iPhone in my left hand with the bottom left corner resting in my palm, pinky and adjacent fingers grasping the bottom right corner, and index finger on the top left corner, I drop from full bars to 1 or even NO SERVICE.

In my hand:




Sitting on the table:

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post #129 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

Ummmm....I'm right handed so I hold the phone in my right hand as most right handed people do. It's the unfortunate 11% of us who are left handed who are going to have issues.

I'm right handed and mostly hold my phone in the left hand. Interesting. Never realized it.
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post #130 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe in miami View Post

Pointing towards the software, yes?

looks like it. And for iPhone 4 owners maybe it's a combination of hardware and software problems.
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post #131 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

You are joking right? iOS 4 on an iPhone 3Gs has this issue? First off mine doesn't but if your does it kind of proved the iPhone 4 has no hardware design issue doesn't it? Software that cares which hand you use on two different iPhones? Sorry if I find this beyond believable. Of course we could be into Apple using quantum, inter dimensional technology that hasn't yet been reported.

Do you read posts in this thread? I am not the only one who has this issue on 3GS.
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post #132 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

It's sickening to think this may not be fixable via firmware. I'll be holding my breath on this one.

Really? Time to lay off the coffee......

Three Possible Reasons:
1. Apple wants us all to use surgical gloves to insure the screens remain smudge/fingerprint/oil free for the first couple of months.

2. Apple needed a way to "lower the bar" so the new Droid phone wouldn't look so bad!

3. Apple is switching PR campaigns now they've found how successful it can be when you "lose" a proto-type in a bar! They'll let this run for 3 days, announce a magical "fix" that was already available, and reap tons of PR from this!
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post #133 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

... And do I recall correctly that the yellow screened iMacs ... I paid only tangential attention to that disaster.

That wasn't a disaster, tekstud. Only a small number of iMacs out of the total produced were affected and Apple seems to have taken care of those people. Certainly no one seems to be complaining about that anymore.
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post #134 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:48am
Looks like I'm ordering that $30 bumper after all. If it is a skin-on-metal issue causing the antenna problems, then I'd think a case might fix it.
To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #135 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I can confirm it with my brand new iPhone 4 that I picked up this morning from the AT&T store. Holding the iPhone in my left hand with the bottom left corner resting in my palm, pinky and adjacent fingers grasping the bottom right corner, and index finger on the top left corner, I drop from full bars to 1 or even NO SERVICE.

In my hand:




Sitting on the table:


I tend to leave my wifi turned off unless I am at home, mainly to save battery. In any case, if you disable your wifi do you get the same results? I wonder if having both wifi and the 3g radio functioning at the same time has any bearing on this.
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post #136 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Is this just in your left hand? If so what happens if you hold it upside down in the right one? Also if you were gloved? I am wondering if it is shorting or something else.

I had it sitting next to me on the couch. My left side. It had 1 bar but then I picked it up with my left hand and all bars came back. Surely there is a design flaw involving couches that Apple didn't vet.

Next I'll try defibrillating the device while soaking in ionized water.

edit: Friend with DOA iPhone 4 walked into Apple Store and got a new phone immediately. They activated it and made sure it worked before he left the store.
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post #137 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

The buttons are placed in a manner so that they can be operated by the left thumb.

Or right index finger.
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post #138 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I can confirm it with my brand new iPhone 4 that I picked up this morning from the AT&T store. Holding the iPhone in my left hand with the bottom left corner resting in my palm, pinky and adjacent fingers grasping the bottom right corner, and index finger on the top left corner, I drop from full bars to 1 or even NO SERVICE.

In my hand:


Dude, you could totally be their next hand model!
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post #139 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

I tend to leave my wifi turned off unless I am at home, mainly to save battery. In any case, if you disable your wifi do you get the same results? I wonder if having both wifi and the 3g radio functioning at the same time has any bearing on this.

Nope, no bearing. It happens just the same with wifi on/off. And it isn't necessary to hold the phone in the awkward manner shown in the pics (with index finger on top). Just a normal lefthanded grip does the trick.
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post #140 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Looks like I'm ordering that $30 bumper after all. If it is a skin-on-metal issue causing the antenna problems, then I'd think a case might fix it.

I think I'm gonna pick this up to use in the mean time from Best Buy:



It's not like I can do anything anyway until Apple speaks on the matter.
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post #141 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:11am
It sure will be interesting to see what the official word is on this issue. Just to add to the confusion of things, it seems to depend location as well. I was able to reproduce this at home last night. Today, at work, I can NOT get it to happen at all. WIFI connected, WIFI disconnected etc. Makes no sense unless the 3g signal is SO strong here in the city so as to be a non issue. I'll try again tonight when I'm back home.... strange.
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post #142 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

If it is a minor problem, we might hear from Apple in a few days. Otherwise, we may not hear from Apple ever. They are very slow to admit things.

And do I recall correctly that the yellow screened iMacs were subjected to unsuccessful software "fixes"? Before they were pulled from the market for a while? Did that turn out to be a shipping damage issue? Did Apple ever admit to anything?

I paid only tangential attention to that disaster.

Funny thing is they never even fixed it. At least as of May this year, new 27" iMacs had the subtle yellow tint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

That wasn't a disaster, tekstud. Only a small number of iMacs out of the total produced were affected and Apple seems to have taken care of those people. Certainly no one seems to be complaining about that anymore.

That's not quite right. Most people may not notice it, but the yellow tint is indeed there on current 27's (including my i7 from last month...)
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post #143 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

It is simply not plausible that something so fundamental as the hand interfering with the external antenna bands would not have been tested and re-tested in every possible situation. When rolling out an entirely new way to implement antennas, this would be job one. Apple (Jobs) is obsessive/compulsive when it comes to getting hardware right. Suggestions that field testing with a camouflaged 3Gs case prevented them from discovering the hand "shorting out" the antenna plates are foolish.

So what are you saying? The reported issue does not exist, despite many fiurst hand accounts within this thread? That Apple knew of the problem but released the phone anyway? Option 3?
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post #144 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:18am
Luckily there is a fix to the problem:

Solution to the iPhone 4 antenna issue
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post #145 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BagNDrag View Post

It sure will be interesting to see what the official word is on this issue. Just to add to the confusion of things, it seems to depend location as well. I was able to reproduce this at home last night. Today, at work, I can NOT get it to happen at all. WIFI connected, WIFI disconnected etc. Makes no sense unless the 3g signal is SO strong here in the city so as to be a non issue. I'll try again tonight when I'm back home.... strange.

Same thing here -- the problem's reproducible at home (although not to the point where it drops anything; I see the bars dip, but data/calls still work), but at work the bars stay steady.

My wild guess at this point would be that it's software overreacting to the hardware -- that whole looks-for-the-strongest-uninterrupted-signal thing. If the so-called interruption is your hand, it's not going to find a better one, and may just cycle through all available options, come up with nothing better, and fail out. If you're somewhere where the signal's stronger to begin with, it may not need to try to find a "better option." But, like I said, total supposition on my part. We'll see.

Mostly, I'm trying not to freak out for now, since the phone's still doing its job. I'm keeping an eye out for any official announcements, though.
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post #146 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Leave to engadget and gizmodo to spread FUD.

AFAIK, this was first reported by MacRumors. Others, including AI and the gadget sites picked it up from them.

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post #147 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by theroamer View Post

Luckily there is a fix to the problem:

Solution to the iPhone 4 antenna issue

Great first port.
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post #148 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:21am
I can confirm this happens on my 3GS, WITHOUT iOS 4. BUT it depends on my location. By my office window, the bars start dropping if I hold it that way.... At my desk, I cannot reproduce. This is very weird indeed...
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post #149 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:24am
just got back from apple store. no way i'm waiting in that line. anyway i tested 3 phones no yellow, no left hand problems. are you people shorting appl stock or what? truth i think the phone feels clunky in my hand and more solid but not in a good way. i have 3gs with new ios4 software and i think software upgrade most important step.
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post #150 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:26am
:P Maybe its a good thing we aren't getting iPhone 4 for another month here in Canada.. it will give them a chance to fix all the little defects the first releases always seem to have.
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post #151 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopphode View Post

... That's not quite right. Most people may not notice it, but the yellow tint is indeed there on current 27's (including my i7 from last month...)

And what has Apple said to you regarding this?
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post #152 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennyg View Post

Same thing here -- the problem's reproducible at home (although not to the point where it drops anything; I see the bars dip, but data/calls still work), but at work the bars stay steady.

My wild guess at this point would be that it's software overreacting to the hardware -- that whole looks-for-the-strongest-uninterrupted-signal thing. If the so-called interruption is your hand, it's not going to find a better one, and may just cycle through all available options, come up with nothing better, and fail out. If you're somewhere where the signal's stronger to begin with, it may not need to try to find a "better option." But, like I said, total supposition on my part. We'll see.

Mostly, I'm trying not to freak out for now, since the phone's still doing its job. I'm keeping an eye out for any official announcements, though.

I like your logic JennyG! I too am trying NOT to freak out. The phone is awesome and I would hate for this to be a hardware issue that can't be fixed by software. I'm going with what you have said... at least it makes me feel better!
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post #153 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:36am
Isn't it great we have something to talk about other then the oil spill.

Seriously folks their is so much mis information. People who rely on the bars as an indicator to wether you have a problem are wasting your time. When not connected the indicator is a estimator until the phone is sharing bit error rates with the tower you really don't know what's going on. Also realize that signal performance is not static both the tower and the device adjust power based on number of users and signal qualities ect. Does a problem exist under certain conditions. Probably but the simple solution until Apple engineers determine the issue and engineer a fix is to use a case if you can't live with that then move your hand or sell your phone, I'm sure you could find someone to take your new Iphone off your hands via ebay and maybe make a profit.
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post #154 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by theroamer View Post

Luckily there is a fix to the problem:

Solution to the iPhone 4 antenna issue

Dude, those things are awesome, even without an iPhone 4. I'm totally ordering right now!
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post #155 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:37am
I haven't read the whole thread, but just a quick idea:

It seems to me that the issue comes up when you create a shortcut between the two antennas at the seam. If I'm right, that means you lose the call as well when you make a shortcut at the top seam. The right seam does nothing, as it is bogus (no physical disconnection).

Wonder why that would be. I think that there is no shortcut when you don't bridge the seam, as there is to much resistance in the human body for the interference to be generated when passing through a bigger part, (i.e. in this case the entire hand), when you hold it normally on both sides.

Just some thoughts.

Edit: there is no bridging with the cases like the bumper in place, which explains the correction of this defect. Again, I'm only guessing here.
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post #156 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:38am
A commenter at the Gizmondo story about this said he spoke to Apple, that they are sending him a replacement phone, and the problem stems from some units failing to get a "protective coating."
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post #157 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

They *have* being testing it in the field. But they have has cases on them to disguise them, thus their hands "when they were in the field" were never touching that band, so there's was no real antenna connection made. The reason it's hard to believe is because something this crazy may actually be true.

It's sickening to think this may not be fixable via firmware. I'll be holding my breath on this one.

field testing in a HUGE CASE that made it look like a 3gs... no wonder they did see the problem till later on and prob said hmmm lets make bumpers
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post #158 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alessio21 View Post

field testing in a HUGE CASE that made it look like a 3gs... no wonder they did see the problem till later on and prob said hmmm lets make bumpers

And charge $30 for 'em
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post #159 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by willrob View Post

A commenter at the Gizmondo story about this said he spoke to Apple, that they are sending him a replacement phone, and the problem stems from some units failing to get a "protective coating."

Protective coating eh? So almost like a sortof "clear varnish" substance hmmm, interesting.

Seriously though, if this is all it turns out to be, I will be surprised and amazed. Mainly because it's an easy fix, and because Apple is aware of the problem. Of course this all depends on if this report on Gizmodo is legit.

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post #160 of 446
6/24/10 at 11:51am
This issue doesn't effect me as I bought a case which wraps round the steel in a similar fashion tot he Apple bumpers. I bought this as I would like some matter of protection, rather than my skin coming into direct contact with the antenna.

However this does not excuse Apple from shipping with what appears to be a fairly major flaw. If there is indeed a coating missing then they should, at some point, arrange for users to swapout their handsets.

I tested mine without the case and it drops out when I press a finger over the space on the steel in the bottom corner. However I noticed that I don't actually touch that area during calls, either with or without a case on.
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