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Some iPhone 4 launch units lose signal when held with left hand - Page 9

post #321 of 446
6/24/10 at 7:26pm
I am calling fake on the email. Maybe I am wrong, and a sad day it would be if that was the response, but on the assumption I am not wrong, people need to get a grip on reality. If it is a manufacturing process, it will get resolved.

For the people saying apple field tested them in cases so never realised this is a problem, get real. They would have tested them in apple, outside apple, at home, in the air, everywhere they could. It is totally absurd and unrealistic to insinuate an industrial design/manufacture company would not test a product unless it had a case on. Come on people.

Ireland you really need to take some pills to calm down and just wait til things get resolved. You appear to be having a major stress attack over this, and it can't be good for your health!
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post #322 of 446
6/24/10 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

It doesn't help matters when you hold the phone in a weird way, it makes the nay sayers say nobody holds a phone like that. You could have gently cradled it like you usually do while using the device and you'd still get the issue.

Exactly. A lot of people are going to be amazed that when they think they have a perfectly good signal all they have to do is reach over and pick their phones up and in just one or two seconds sometimes their phones will say no service. Unless, and it's looking likely for many until, you have it happen repeatedly you almost can't believe it. I actually wondered at first whether it could be the gyroscope

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

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post #323 of 446
6/24/10 at 7:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gchriste View Post

I am calling fake on the email. Maybe I am wrong, and a sad day it would be if that was the response, but on the assumption I am not wrong, people need to get a grip on reality. If it is a manufacturing process, it will get resolved.

For the people saying apple field tested them in cases so never realised this is a problem, get real. They would have tested them in apple, outside apple, at home, in the air, everywhere they could. It is totally absurd and unrealistic to insinuate an industrial design/manufacture company would not test a product unless it had a case on. Come on people.

Ireland you really need to take some pills to calm down and just wait til things get resolved. You appear to be having a major stress attack over this, and it can't be good for your health!

The email is not fake. Go check the front page article on the NYT in which they spoke directly to an Apple rep. You can also go to loopinsight.com where Jim Dalrymple speaks to Apple PR.

In this circumstance I am angry at Apple's arrogance. They have a fundamental design flaw and have tried to pass it off as the end users' fault. It's offensive. I'm glad that I waited to get a new iPhone. It should be quite amusing to see the class action lawsuits come.
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post #324 of 446
6/24/10 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Dude, the guy almost died. Of pancreatic cancer - close to zero survivability rate. And it's cancer, not the flu. It's a long, difficult process, and the chance of recurrence is always present. It would be surprising if he were not medicated almost daily even now.

He says he's all better, but when he first left he said it was nothing serious. Steve says a lot of things, and considers his health a very private matter.

I have no doubt the near-death experience and ongoing fears are driving a lot of the more erratic behaviors that are making new enemies across multiple industries every week...

You know, you are seriously lacking in any moral sense. One would expect even trolls to know there are lines of decency that ought not be crossed. Only a sociopath would use SJ's battle with cancer as an opportunity to score troll points.
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post #325 of 446
6/24/10 at 7:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shapesNforms View Post

Ok, after waiting in line at my Apple store for almost four hours, I have my new 4G iPhone...and sure enough, I can reproduce the same issue mentioned. Holding the phone as has been described, I drop bars. Then it moves from 3G down to EDGE and then "Searching". Started a call without holding the phone (4bars), then picked it up in my left hand and within about 20-30 seconds, lost all bars and the call was dropped...this is on the standard 3G network...

Now here is something interesting...I also have an AT&T microcell. Once I got home, my phone connected to it with no problems. Picking up the phone in my left hand, I get no loss in bars or any dropped calls. Tried four different calls and no issues whatsoever.

I need to do some more testing but can someone else who also uses the AT&T microcell confirm the same thing? On 3G, you loose bars and then eventually the signal, on the microcell, no issues at all...

Ok...after having some more time to test, it appears it doesn't matter if it's on 3G or Microcell...holding the phone in your left hand as described, it will eventually loose signal, and in my case, it will drop the call almost every time...
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post #326 of 446
6/24/10 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gchriste View Post

I am calling fake on the email. Maybe I am wrong, and a sad day it would be if that was the response, but on the assumption I am not wrong, people need to get a grip on reality. If it is a manufacturing process, it will get resolved.

For the people saying apple field tested them in cases so never realised this is a problem, get real. They would have tested them in apple, outside apple, at home, in the air, everywhere they could. It is totally absurd and unrealistic to insinuate an industrial design/manufacture company would not test a product unless it had a case on. Come on people.

Ireland you really need to take some pills to calm down and just wait til things get resolved. You appear to be having a major stress attack over this, and it can't be good for your health!

You are right this is a conspiracy by google, microsoft, macrumors, the new York time, endgader, several financial websites, just to name a few all designed to upset apple and Steve Jobs. SJ would never ever ever mislead his customers. I mean, all those stories about the iMacs and Mac pros have issues were also part of the conspiracy by android fanbois to make apple look bad.
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post #327 of 446
6/24/10 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I know, and they are trying to tell us to hold the fucking things differently. Today I'm ashamed to be an iPhone owner and Mac user. Steve needs to wake up if he thinks he can tell people they are holding their phones wrong. It's like emailing him and saying: "every time I press the return key the computer loses Wifi." And his response is to not press the return key.

I'm disgusted.

Is someone at Apple about to announce they just sold or made 10 million phones... and they don't really work? Holy crud!

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post #328 of 446
6/24/10 at 7:42pm
Another hilarious point is that the bumper case won't even fit with Apple's dock and I'm assuming other 3rd party docks which means you're in a constant state of taking it on and off.
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post #329 of 446
6/24/10 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

Another hilarious point is that the bumper case won't even fit with Apple's dock and I'm assuming other 3rd party docks which means you're in a constant state of taking it on and off.

This whole thing sounds like a joke started by Steve Ballmer... it's absolutely incredible. The horror... the horror!

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post #330 of 446
6/24/10 at 7:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

If this turns out to actually be the problem, they need to modify the design immediately to fix it. (Seems unlikely it could be fixed in software, but, if so, all the better.)

At first I was getting concerned about this issue, but after reading many posts about it, I came across one which makes me believe this is, in fact, a fixable software issue.

You see, since the OS can selectively turn off the different antennas, it just needs to know to turn off the section of the antenna and the frequencies that are currently not in use. For example, if a person is making a 3G call, then the OS could automatically turn off wi-fi until the call is completed, etc.
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post #331 of 446
6/24/10 at 7:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gchriste View Post

I am calling fake on the email. Maybe I am wrong, and a sad day it would be if that was the response, but on the assumption I am not wrong, people need to get a grip on reality. If it is a manufacturing process, it will get resolved.

What;s very sad indeed, is you are wrong. Well it seems likely you are. Given what Engadget said.

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post #332 of 446
6/24/10 at 7:55pm


The whole world smiles with you?

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post #333 of 446
6/24/10 at 7:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post

Sounds like some poo-pooing of (perhaps) poor engineering...

I'm sitting with my iPhone next to me with 2-3 bars and in two to three seconds of picking up the phone I get Network Lost popping up and then "no network" were Vodafone was. Put it back down and gets service again. I guess I was looking for any answers that might provide solutions or a reason for SJ's BS attitude or legal tactic. I've got a lot of respect for him but I'm really struggling to see how he can brush this off so lightly, it's a 500 pound sterling, which is $750 phone from a company that I highly regard or should I say "have done".

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #334 of 446
6/24/10 at 7:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastmanweb View Post

At first I was getting concerned about this issue, but after reading many posts about it, I came across one which makes me believe this is, in fact, a fixable software issue.

You see, since the OS can selectively turn off the different antennas, it just needs to know to turn off the section of the antenna and the frequencies that are currently not in use. For example, if a person is making a 3G call, then the OS could automatically turn off wi-fi until the call is completed, etc.

That's not really a viable solution. It's quite probable that you might want to access the wifi network in the middle of a voice call.
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post #335 of 446
6/24/10 at 7:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, I'm right handed, and I hold the phone in my left hand when I make a call, preferring to have my right hand free to do things with. So it's a problem for more than just lefties, or maybe it's less of a problem for lefties if my way is not unusual. I'm guessing this didn't show up in field tests because they had them in those special cases to make it look like a 3GS. If this turns out to actually be the problem, they need to modify the design immediately to fix it. (Seems unlikely it could be fixed in software, but, if so, all the better.) For those who already own an iPhone 4, they should offer free Bumper cases to mitigate the problem.

I think you are right on all points here. Even if they field tested without the case on (as they might have once it was leaked so completely) their results may not have shown the severity of the issue. Just as with people with units now, many cannot reproduce it, some drop some bars but call stays fine and some drop calls. Given the variables, like having to hold it as though they are making a call and testing signal strength at the same time instead of perhaps testing signal strength while it is simply being held in the palm, having to touch just the right spot, the strength of the local signal being a factor, etc, it is quite likely it never came up as a issue or if it did it may have only shown up as a loss of bars with minimal effect on actual quality.

If the outcry is loud enough or if they simply deem it to be an severe enough issue, I am sure they will correct for it. This might simply be free bumpers for all. I don't think it can be corrected in software, as it seems to stem from bridging the gap between two physical antennas. I don't see how they could logically prevent a physical connection between the two.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #336 of 446
6/24/10 at 7:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastmanweb View Post

At first I was getting concerned about this issue, but after reading many posts about it, I came across one which makes me believe this is, in fact, a fixable software issue.

That's not what Apple's official spokespeople, and Steve Jobs, says. Need I say more?

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post #337 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:00pm
Well, its clear that ATT network isn't as bad as we all think it is. The iPhone shares some blame in the poor reception and dropped calls!
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post #338 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Is someone at Apple about to announce they just sold or made 10 million phones... and they don't really work? Holy crud!

You have to remember though that SJ said this is a non-issue, and that there is no problem with the phone be ause you are holding wrong. If you were to hold it in the normal, SJ approved and Apple sanctioned manner then the phone works fine. End of story and nothing more to report.
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post #339 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:01pm
Sadly, if this cannot be corrected with a software update (and defying physics doesn't sound like a software addressable issue) I think Apple will basically have to give away free bumpers to everyone asking for one or risk a massive, very expensive class-action lawsuit. AAMOF, it's my opinion that one has already been drawn up and we'll be hearing about it tomorrow.

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post #340 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:02pm
I am in a state of shock right now over Apple's flippant response to this huge problem. My iPhone will go down to 1 bar even when trying to hold it "Steve's way". Just when cradling the phone and only touching the two sides around the upper or midway down part of the phone, I loose most of my signal bars. I have had dropped calls to everyone I have talked to with it. I have not had a single successful phone call with it so far. Absolutely ridiculous!
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post #341 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

If the outcry is load enough or if they simply deem it to be an severe enough issue, I am sure they will correct for it. This might simply be free bumpers for all. I don't think it can be corrected in software, as it seems to stem from bridging the gap between two physical antennas. I don't see how they could logically prevent a physical connection between the two.

The problem with 'bumpers for all' is I won't be getting one or recommending it. In fact I'd recommend highly against it. Steve Jobs is trying to give his users a big fuck you, and you can either sit and take it or demand better. This is unacceptable.

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post #342 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:06pm
This all seems like an horrific oversight to me.

They should never have had seams for the sake of seams in the first place. If they engineered the headphone jack and the 30 pin connector to become "natural seams" necessary to isolate both antennae that would not interrupt the clean lines of the design and would not introduce the same kind of interference regardless of holding the phone left or right handed.

But why are there three seams if there are only two sections of antennae?

My prediction: Bumpers this year means Apple is doing research for when iPhone 5 goes nanochromatic.
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post #343 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastmanweb View Post

At first I was getting concerned about this issue, but after reading many posts about it, I came across one which makes me believe this is, in fact, a fixable software issue.

You see, since the OS can selectively turn off the different antennas, it just needs to know to turn off the section of the antenna and the frequencies that are currently not in use. For example, if a person is making a 3G call, then the OS could automatically turn off wi-fi until the call is completed, etc.

That would be great. It doesn't matter whether I've got wifi or bluetooth turned on or off it happens the same anyway. I'm sure there's more to it than that though, so maybe you're right and it can be fixed through a software update enough so that any signal loss is a tiny fraction of what it currently is. I really hope so. That would make SJ's comment fair enough and I hope that happens, but if it doesn't and he knows it wouldn't, then it's unacceptable to me and I would think many others too. I'm skeptical at this stage in part because of the cased (disguised) iPhone affair and the fact it's so unbelievably sensitive.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #344 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

You have to remember though that SJ said this is a non-issue, and that there is no problem with the phone be ause you are holding wrong. If you were to hold it in the normal, SJ approved and Apple sanctioned manner then the phone works fine. End of story and nothing more to report.

Clearly you've missed Apple holding it in those FaceTime commercials. And every iPhone ad ever made. People are holding the phone in a normal way, it's the phone that's weird.

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post #345 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:10pm
I put this in another thread.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=110840

Apple gave Engadget an email. Buy a case or change your grip! WTF??? Apple will surely pay for this one in the media.
Hard-Core.
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post #346 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Sadly, if this cannot be corrected with a software update (and defying physics doesn't sound like a software addressable issue) I think Apple will basically have to give away free bumpers to everyone asking for one or risk a massive, very expensive class-action lawsuit. AAMOF, it's my opinion that one has already been drawn up and we'll be hearing about it tomorrow.

I don't think free bumpers are going to cut and I agree that there lawsuits already being prepared.

I can't blame angry customers either. Not everyone pays attention to tech news and there are many who will be in a situation where they are tied contractually to a carrier with a phone that doesn't work as well for them as was advertised.

Sidenote: Apparently an Invisible Shield can't stop the signal drop.
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post #347 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post



The whole world smiles with you?

Ireland, your montage of pics showing the iPhone 4 in use as advertised about sums it up: the actual product cannot be used as advertised. I am just stunned by this situation.
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post #348 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post



The whole world smiles with you?

Row 2 column 2 has the right hand corner circled. FYI
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post #349 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunks View Post

But why are there three seams if there are only two sections of antennae?


The seam on the right is there cosmetic reasons.
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post #350 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Clearly you've missed Apple holding it in those FaceTime commercials. And every iPhone ad ever made. People are holding the phone in a normal way, it's the phone that's weird.

No. You are looking at this in the wrong way. You need to keep the simple truth in mind

Steve Jobs is, by definition, ALWAYS right. No matter what

If you accept this, as so many on this board have, all of your troubles magically disappear, and you see universal peace and love everywhere (except for those nasty evil google and Microsoft people of course).
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post #351 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:20pm

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post #352 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:20pm
A new record for the iPhone 4....the shortest length of ownership.

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD than any iPad

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No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD than any iPad

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post #353 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post



The whole world smiles with you?

Wow man, that is gold!!!
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post #354 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

The problem with 'bumpers for all' is I won't be getting one or recommending it. In fact I'd recommend highly against it. Steve Jobs is trying to give his users a big fuck you, and you can either sit and take it or demand better. This is unacceptable.

The bumper essentially places the antenna inside an enclosure, which seems to be how they would have to physically change the design anyway...put them back inside.

They problem I have, besides the seemingly flip response from Apple, is that is seems possible that they knew this would be an issue. When one looks at the reason for Apple, for the first time ever, to sell a first party case (the bumper) they obviously knew there are issues that required the case. Either the glass edges being exposed and so more prone to sudden impact or the antenna issue or both. If they knew, then great, they provided the bumper...but knowing they would be essentially required for normal operation, they price them as a premium product for a cash grab. Seriously, $30 for what must cost $1 to manufacture? If it wasn't necessary to use the phone, then the price is justified as it is just a glamour item or for those that put cases on everything. But if they knew it was needed, then that is a horrible move, to price it as a extravagance.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #355 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:31pm
So forgetting the diminished bars, how does iphone 4 do as far as making calls, clarity, sending and receiving texts and emails on the 3 g network? There must be a lot of people switching from the 3gs unit. I have barely heard mention of how the new phone compares in any of these aspects. Is the new phone better or worse?
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post #356 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:35pm
You know, my phone has a real hard time in replicating the problem so perhaps not all phones are equally susceptible.

I will say that reading on the iPhone is now a dream. The display is fantastic.
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post #357 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdog View Post

So forgetting the diminished bars, how does iphone 4 do as far as making calls, clarity, sending and receiving texts and emails on the 3 g network? There must be a lot of people switching from the 3gs unit. I have barely heard mention of how the new phone compares in any of these aspects. Is the new phone better or worse?

Worse, if you hold it wrong. lol

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post #358 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdog View Post

So forgetting the diminished bars, how does iphone 4 do as far as making calls, clarity, sending and receiving texts and emails on the 3 g network? There must be a lot of people switching from the 3gs unit. I have barely heard mention of how the new phone compares in any of these aspects. Is the new phone better or worse?

It beats my 3G...but that's to be expected. I would think the 3GS much closer...
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post #359 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

They problem I have, besides the seemingly flip response from Apple, is that is seems possible that they knew this would be an issue. When one looks at the reason for Apple, for the first time ever, to sell a first party case (the bumper) they obviously knew there are issues that required the case.


If lawyers can prove, which shouldn't be too hard, that Apple knew about the flaw then Apple has already lost a potentially billion dollar case.
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post #360 of 446
6/24/10 at 8:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvidal View Post

Of course the signal it's going to drop if you touch the border, It's an antenna, and every antenna in every device that uses one does act like that when you touch it. Every cellular device says "do not touch the antenna".

This thing isn't an issue at all. It's a normal behavior. It is solved with any non-conductive case, like almost any iPhone case. Like the Apple Bumber.

Damn. A guy with a sense.

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