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Some iPhone 4 launch units lose signal when held with left hand - Page 3

post #81 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I respect your opinion so I'll believe you on that one.

You know I have had more than my fair share of hardware issues with Macs, so I am not about to fib on this. I'll take the thingy out on the town tomorrow to see if I get different results, but so far, it's looking good.

My friend who bought his phone at the same time as I did hasn't mailed me about any trouble yet, so I guess his is OK, too.

 

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post #82 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alessio21 View Post

they field tested it with a case around it to look like a 3gs... so they never experieced the interference issue

Yeah, so we've been saying.

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post #83 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:43am
So I'm the only right handed person who holds it in my left hand? I type with my right hand.

~Callum
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post #84 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

That's a good point too. I'm saddened by this revelation. I was looking forward to getting an iPhone 4, but now I'm left in limbo.

Well then, Ireland, don't buy it. Let someone else have the piece you are so desperately craving. I'll continue to enjoy my better than 3GS call quality.
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post #85 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

You know I have had more than my fair share of hardware issues with Macs, so I am not about to fib on this. I'll take the thingy out on the town tomorrow to see if I get different results, but so far, it's looking good.

My friend who bought his phone at the same time as I did hasn't mailed me about any trouble yet, so I guess his is OK, too.

Good man.

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post #86 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

Ummmm....I'm right handed so I hold the phone in my right hand as most right handed people do. It's the unfortunate 11% of us who are left handed who are going to have issues.

So if you're right handed, meaning you draw/write/throw a ball with your right hand, wouldn't that be the same hand you use to tap the iPhone screen with? Given that, wouldn't it be your left hand that holds the device while you use your right fingers to tap it?

Just saying...
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post #87 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, I'm right handed, and I hold the phone in my left hand when I make a call, preferring to have my right hand free to do things with. So it's a problem for more than just lefties, or maybe it's less of a problem for lefties if my way is not unusual. I'm guessing this didn't show up in field tests because they had them in those special cases to make it look like a 3GS. If this turns out to actually be the problem, they need to modify the design immediately to fix it. (Seems unlikely it could be fixed in software, but, if so, all the better.) For those who already own an iPhone 4, they should offer free Bumper cases to mitigate the problem.

yes, if this is truely a hardware issue...can anyone smell a recall? This would make the Toyota recall look like an isolated instance. we're talking millions of phones to recall. I doubt they will, but they should offer the bumpers for free and a discount on the next iPhone release next year.
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post #88 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

The AT&T network uses 2 different frequency bands (800 & 1900). This issue might only affect one of these bands, hence why some users don't experience the issue.

I postulated that as an issue yesterday when the first video hit along with other way RF can be interrupted between the tower and the device. Since Field Test Mode is no longer activated via the same settings I can't see the RF bands in use. I have tested it on both GSM and UMTS, with combinations of WiFi and BT on and off.


Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

I can probably assume that the reveiw handsets are hand picked and QAed before being sent to an Andy Ihnatko, Dave Pouge or Walt Mossberg or for that matter an Engadget or mac world. In mass production, 1 in 100 or 1 in 500 may be pulled for random QA checks, so it may well be a wide spread issue.

It would be foolish for them not to check a review unit before handing it out, but according to Ireland this has to be a flaw resulting from the initial design and not an isolated production flaw affecting only 1 in 100 (1%) or 1 in 500 (0.2%).

As I've stated ad nauseum there will be bad units as this is CE, but to claim that this is a design flaw and troll forums, even ones not relating to the issue, trying to incite readers is complete BS. But he seems to like to get all wound up for no reason as I recall he did the same thing about the Magic Mouse.
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post #89 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

So if you're right handed, meaning you draw/write/throw a ball with your right hand, wouldn't that be the same hand you use to tap the iPhone screen with? Given that, wouldn't it be your left hand that holds the device while you use your right fingers to tap it?

Just saying...

Exactly what I'm saying

I registered JUST to say that, but I've been wondering why I didn't have a login for ages

~Callum
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post #90 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

yes, if this is truely a hardware issue...can anyone smell a recall? This would make the Toyota recall look like an isolated instance. we're talking millions of phones to recall. I doubt they will, but they should offer the bumpers for free and a discount on the next iPhone release next year.

That is not a solution.

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post #91 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

As I've stated ad nauseum there will be bad units as this is CE, but to claim that this is a design flaw and troll forums, even ones not relating to the issue, trying to incite readers is complete BS.

As long as you've stated it.

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post #92 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:53am
This opens up a whole new market for left handed iPhones. Get to it Apple!!

I've also held my iPhone 4 in both hands and no dropped calls. Nothing to report here in sunny England.
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post #93 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by callumacrae View Post

Exactly what I'm saying

I registered JUST to say that, but I've been wondering why I didn't have a login for ages

~Callum

Whatever you do don't bring any perspective, some people take offense to it.

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post #94 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityCheck View Post

My prediction is that this is a hardware problem, and that:

1) Apple will roll a new hardware revision that fixes this problem.
2) Those who bought the first batch will get free replacements.

I expect this to take several weeks.

This is gonna be costly...over 600K units shipped.
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post #95 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

You know I have had more than my fair share of hardware issues with Macs, so I am not about to fib on this. I'll take the thingy out on the town tomorrow to see if I get different results, but so far, it's looking good.

My friend who bought his phone at the same time as I did hasn't mailed me about any trouble yet, so I guess his is OK, too.

Maybe it's some weird body chemistry thing and works as a lie detector. If you say the bars have disappeared, then they do, if you say they are there, they are. It'll become known as the iPhone paradox.
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post #96 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

Ummmm....I'm right handed so I hold the phone in my right hand as most right handed people do. It's the unfortunate 11% of us who are left handed who are going to have issues.


Unless that was a joke--in which case, you're kind of funny.

Plus, if you are right handed then holding the phone in the left hand makes sense because you'll want to use your right hand to accomplish tasks.
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post #97 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:57am
Mine works fine...
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post #98 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by callumacrae View Post

So I'm the only right handed person who holds it in my left hand? I type with my right hand.

~Callum

Me too. I have 3Gs running 4.0 software. last night I took the Incase cover off and held it in my left hand. I lost two signal bars pretty quickly, but then gained one back but never got to full strength. Anyone else try this with a 3GSs?
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post #99 of 446
6/24/10 at 9:59am
Interesting flaw... but is it design or production? I find it hard to believe they didn't consider the impact of something external allowing conductance between the antenna. My thought had been that there is a layer of clear varnish or something on the metal, in which case this might be a production problem with the application or formulation of the varnish. And if there is no varnish and somehow this slipped past their testing (?!) then I would imagine that all future units will be varnished! I would expect that flawed units will be either replaced or given bumpers free of cost.

Pity to tarnish the product launch of such an amazing device, but this kind of stuff happens all the time. We will see how well they respond, but internally I can only imagine how they are freaking out and looking for causes/solutions. Must be like mission control during the Apollo 13 mission right about now.

In the meantime, stop sweating!
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post #100 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:00am
Now I want one. The new 'going through a tunnel' feature could come in really handy when you just want to get off the phone.

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post #101 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:01am
Cross posted from the "Yellow Bands" thread:

Oh hey look, it's Step 28 in the always relevant Apple Product Cycle:

Quote:
A minor, rarely occurring flaw in the device begins to be discussed in the Apple support forums. Whiny, artistic types post lengthy diatribes about how this terrible design flaw has made the device unusable and scarred them emotionally. Electronic petitions are created demanding that Apple replace the devices for free, plus pay for counseling to help traumatized users overcome their emotional distress.

It's amazing how closely every rollout adheres to that list, which is what, six or seven years old now? Can't imagine why anyone would be surprised that this time would be different.

And before anyone yells that this one is really really for reals and really bad, yeah, that's what gets said about each and every one of the "critical flaws" that are discovered after each and every one of Apple's products ship. Anyone remember the terrible manufacturing defects of the 3Gs? Didn't think so.
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post #102 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:02am
Now I'm glad Verizon didn't get the iPhone 4 cause I would have bought one. Hopefully next year the vIphone 5 will have this problem corrected.

Would Apple have had to put the antenna on the outside if ATT didn't have a crappy network?
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post #103 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:04am
It's not just on AT&T, in Germany too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnkynGguWG4

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post #104 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe in miami View Post

Me too. I have 3Gs running 4.0 software. last night I took the Incase cover off and held it in my left hand. I lost two signal bars pretty quickly, but then gained one back but never got to full strength. Anyone else try this with a 3GSs?

Same results with my 3GS after I read about this last night.
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post #105 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

If the invisible shield can't stop it probably not damp. Clear nail varnish? Please don't tell me you're suggest we paint our phones with that crap?

Wow, you are aggressive today, the brackets were intended as a joke. The clear plastic coating at time of manufacture was my serious suggestion if indeed it were a shorting issue.
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post #106 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:06am
I can confirm this with my just arrived and activated iPhone 4. If I intentionally bridge the lower left side case antenna gap with my hand the 5 bars slowly sink down to nothing and the signal is lost. Remove my hand and they slowly build back up. I've repeated this several times. It's probably not helped by the warm humid weather and resulting slightly moist skin.

I'm right handed and normally hold the phone in my left hand to hit keys, but on my right side for phone calls.

Hmm... bumper case, Scotch tape, clear nail polish?
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post #107 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe in miami View Post

Me too. I have 3Gs running 4.0 software. last night I took the Incase cover off and held it in my left hand. I lost two signal bars pretty quickly, but then gained one back but never got to full strength. Anyone else try this with a 3GSs?

Yep , same problem. Already reported that yesterday on this thread http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...79#post1659879
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post #108 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:07am
This is yet another reason why I wait and I'm not an extreme early adopter of any technology.

I use my phone in my left hand since I drive a 5 speed. Until this issue is confirmed to be gone from the revised units, I'll wait on this.

Apple is fallible like any other company. They've done well enough though that this won't cause the same uproar as if HTC had the issue for instance. HTC has had enough major screw ups that if this was them, the backlash would be worse.

Oh well. Good luck to those who need to get theirs replaced for this issue.
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post #109 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Cross posted from the "Yellow Bands" thread:

Oh hey look, it's Step 28 in the always relevant Apple Product Cycle:



It's amazing how closely every rollout adheres to that list, which is what, six or seven years old now? Can't imagine why anyone would be surprised that this time would be different.

And before anyone yells that this one is really really for reals and really bad, yeah, that's what gets said about each and every one of the "critical flaws" that are discovered after each and every one of Apple's products ship. Anyone remember the terrible manufacturing defects of the 3Gs? Didn't think so.

Well, the difference here is that this is a super high profile launch, the media are all over it, and the stakes are high. Apple really does need to get out in front of this one, which is contrary to their normal quiet, yet usually very effective, response strategy.
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post #110 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

If it is a shorting issue due to damp hands as some seem to suggest, a layer of clear plastic (clear nail varnish?) or a case would suffice one would think. I find it hard to believe it is a transmission issue as flesh and bone don't block signals do they? Of course it could all be hysteria and FUD or limited to a few. It will be interesting to see.

My phone is doing it. I was thinking the same, they could send a laminating machine to install a thin clear protective band. Would like that better than the bumper.
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post #111 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

That's a good point too. I'm saddened by this revelation. I was looking forward to getting an iPhone 4, but now I'm left in limbo.

So get a "bumper" too. Probably a good idea anyway, to protect the edges (and antenna) if you drop the phone.

Thompson
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post #112 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:12am
It is simply not plausible that something so fundamental as the hand interfering with the external antenna bands would not have been tested and re-tested in every possible situation. When rolling out an entirely new way to implement antennas, this would be job one. Apple (Jobs) is obsessive/compulsive when it comes to getting hardware right. Suggestions that field testing with a camouflaged 3Gs case prevented them from discovering the hand "shorting out" the antenna plates are foolish.
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post #113 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:13am
A thought just occurred to me: How embarrassing would it be for someone to start up a phone call right after buying one of these then have the call dropped as your walking out the door in front of all the other suckers in line for this thing. How pissed would you be? Would you say oh well and keep walking, or would you say oh hell no lol
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post #114 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, the difference here is that this is a super high profile launch, the media are all over it, and the stakes are high. Apple really does need to get out in front of this one, which is contrary to their normal quiet, yet usually very effective, response strategy.

Assuming there is any validity of course, I am sure Apple will respond. If not they will ignore it for sure.

Meanwhile, a survey shows if you hold an iPhone 4 with your feet and dial with your nose it causes serious back strain in 999 out of 1000 people.
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post #115 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:15am
This is happening with my iPhone 4. I can replicate it with very little contact between the two antennas.

Design flaw? I think it's certainly possible. After all these things were field-tested in 3G-shaped disguise cases which would prevent this kind of physical contact.

Limited to certain handsets? Not sure. When I first read about this issue I tried it in my office and couldn't replicate it. I thought I was safe. But my office building has a 3G repeater - when I went out into the world and tried it, the signal went right away.

It'll be remedied one way or another. Dunno why but I have a feeling this can be addressed in a software update.
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post #116 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

My phone is doing it. I was thinking the same, they could send a laminating machine to install a thin clear protective band. Would like that better than the bumper.

Is this just in your left hand? If so what happens if you hold it upside down in the right one? Also if you were gloved? I am wondering if it is shorting or something else.
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post #117 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Betruger View Post

Yep , same problem. Already reported that yesterday on this thread http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...79#post1659879

Pointing towards the software, yes?
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post #118 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityCheck View Post

My prediction is that this is a hardware problem, and that:

1) Apple will roll a new hardware revision that fixes this problem.
2) Those who bought the first batch will get free replacements.

I expect this to take several weeks.

My prediction is that:

(1) Apple will roll a new hardware revision that fixes the problem, and
(2) Apple offers free bumpers to anyone that is suffering problems. (Which would only be people that don't already have bumpers) and
(3) Cave in to those who demand that they want a bumperless phone (even if the bumper is free).

I suspect that with this path, there will be a lot less replacement phones going out than with your path.

Oh, also that it will take a hell of a lot longer than "several weeks" to "roll a new hardware revision". Testing the solution must be robust, and the FCC may need to do a re-qualifying process (not sure about the latter). Regardless, the internal testing will be robust, and meanwhile, several weeks worth of inventory is churning through the factories now. They will sell those down and offer free bumpers.

Thompson
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post #119 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:20am
If I cup my iPhone 4 with both hands, touching the metal bands, I saw the bars increase by one and then slowly decrease. Took about a minute and a half to drop the call.

But my signal here has always been poor on my 1st gen phone so I'd like to try this in an area that has stronger signal strength. In fact, sitting here, the iPhone 4 goes from full bars to one by itself. Is that AT&T or the phone?

If I hold the phone in my left hand like I would when making a call, no change in the bars.
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post #120 of 446
6/24/10 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Betruger View Post

Yep , same problem. Already reported that yesterday on this thread http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...79#post1659879

You are joking right? iOS 4 on an iPhone 3Gs has this issue? First off mine doesn't but if your does it kind of proved the iPhone 4 has no hardware design issue doesn't it? Software that cares which hand you use on two different iPhones? Sorry if I find this beyond believable. Of course we could be into Apple using quantum, inter dimensional technology that hasn't yet been reported.
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