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Apple says any mobile phone has reception issues when held wrong - Page 4

post #121 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

Wouldn't painting the stainless steel fix the problem? Therefore preventing skin contact with metal.

This is what I thought immediately. In fact, for a little while it was speculated that maybe there was a coating step that was skipped in the production of some units.
post #122 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by iancass79 View Post

Actually, the article that was quoted in your reply above was pretty interesting. It makes sense. Especially where the guy says he voted with his dollars.

That's one of the parts that doesn't make sense.

Quote:
So, what's an iPhone lover to do? Well, I voted with my dollars. I ordered my iPhone 4 to replace my Original. I already know how to do the Vulcan Antenna Grip on the iPhone, and I am wearing out my current model.

What an idiot.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #123 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... and the Apple haters are working overtime to make this an issue.

Let's wait a month to see if this dies away or if it stays real.

After 2 million phones are sold we should be able to find out if it's an issue or a non-issue.

You can sell 2 million phones but that does not mean it is a non issue, as Richard would say, Apple "could sell a ketchup Popsicle to a girl in white gloves". There are so many fanbois out there it doesn't matter and Apple knows it, they will make there money and the customer can pound sand and there is nothing you can do about it because the fanbois will keep buying regardless of how bad it is, they will make excuses over and over, just read through this thread.
post #124 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

They aren't admitting their mistake because they didn't make one. All cell phones have potential issues with how you hold them.

And the fact that there's not 100% reports of this 'mistake' shows that it's not all about the design. Some of it could be user error. Some of it could also just be shitty ATT coverage in the area. In fact several of the folks that I saw making reports of this 'major design flaw' admitted that they 'have never had great ATT service in the area'. Well geez Beav could that be the issue and not the phone at all. perhaps.

Apple can not be responsible for those that put a hand right over the antennas, after they told folks that that's what the band is. they can't be responsible for those that drop or lose their phones or get them wet etc. No more than any other company. If this was an Android, Rim etc we wouldn't be hearing about it. Because it's Apple all 'flaws' are suddenly a huge thing.

Perhaps the mistake they need to correct is this media obsession with painting them as perfect so then folks will stop with the expectations.

Why should Apple get a free hall pass for this mistake? What would you say if this problem was found on a MSFT phone? I disagree that nobody would be complaining if this happened on Android or RIM. I don't think their CEO would tell users that they are holding their phone wrong which is pretty much a middle finger to their own customers.
post #125 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

EVERY cellphone does that! "Gripping any mobile phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance"

Yes, "some" attenuation. But the problem here is that there is evidence of their being far, far more than "some"! Are there any other cell phones available today where the antenna is external where it can come in direct contact with your hand? Have you ever touched a TV or radio antenna and had it affect reception? Direct contact is a problem!

This was one of the first things I wondered when I saw the design. Yes, putting the antenna on the outside of the case will help reception, just like the old-school phones with extendable antennas. But it also exposes it to interference from objects that it comes in contact with. What if the phone is in my pocket with coins or keys. Could that short the gap between the antennas and cause reception problems, too?

It's becoming obvious that Apple may not have done enough testing on this one. If the new glass front an back are radio transparent, they should have just left the antennas inside the damn case.
post #126 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

Every cell phone does exactly the same thing. It is a fact of life.

Keep smoking that pop pipe, Sonny.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #127 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... and you are a bigger a_ _ hole than I had originally thought.

I am an asshole but that doesn't matter here.

This is just as ridiculous as when HTC said phones don't go in pockets. You think I was mute then? The HTC diehards did exactly what you're seeing here: They actually tried to justify the statement. "Well they really shouldn't go in pockets. That's why you get a holster!" like cmon, give me a break.
post #128 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

And all the phones were working fine in the pictures ... Great post.

I can as so can many people hold them that way and they work fine. So go figure ...

It must be from users with hands as dense as their heads because mine and everyone I know across several countries have zero issues when holding the iPhone in their left hand.

I've tried placing keys on it, tried using moist, salt covered fingers and everything else under the sun to see if it's the "design flaw that affects everyone and will result in a class action lawsuit and a recall of every iPhone 4' that Ireland suggests.

I did have one friend whose phone was DOA. He walked into an Apple Store, bypassing the line, and was able to get a new one immediately. They opened it up, activated it and tested it before he left. I posed this question yesterday but received no answer, "If he made a video and put it on YouTube of his iPhone 4 being DOA would that indicate that all iPhone 4's are DOA, that's it's a design flaw affecting all devices, that Apple should recall all iPhones or risk a class action lawsuit?" It's clear I was engaging in reductio ad absurdum but that's not why I didn't receive an answer to my query.
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post #129 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

So you are being sarcastic. You trickster, you.

No, he's an annoying troll trying to up his post count.
post #130 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

Wouldn't painting the stainless steel fix the problem? Therefore preventing skin contact with metal.

I bet it would and probably look good. Problem is that the locations that are causing the issues are the locations most touched, paint may wear very quickly but not a bad idea. Of course Apple would have to re-call all the phones with issues, paint them and also go back and paint the ones already produced. It is just easier to blame the user.
post #131 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post

This reminds me of the puck mouse. Looked pretty, but the cursor would shoot off at crazy angles all the time if you were not holding it just right. So it looked pretty but was basically useless as a mouse.

Yeah, and look at how long they clung to that before admitting it was a bad decision.

Apple has made some design mis-steps in recent years and then reverted back to older designs in the next upgrade cycle (the fat nano comes to mind). But while this issues is still being understood, at first blush this could be their biggest design foul up in many years.
post #132 of 444
I'd post a video, but I'm too lazy. I just tried holding my 3GS the same way (without case). From full 5 bars on Rogers in Canada, it drops 2 bars when I hold it in the bottom left corner. Perhaps on AT&T it would go from 3 or 4 bars to a dropped call.... who knows. Perhaps all this over blown?
post #133 of 444
The only phone I have seen this on is my iPhone 2G and iPhone 3GS. (But they generally only loose 1 or 2 bars when held in hand, doesn't drop from full bars to no service).

Otherwise I have had several Nokias, HTC, and Sony Ericsson phones. None of them would loose signal. As a geek, I play with my phones alot in my hand (even back in the day when they weren't smart, I was always messing with settings).

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post #134 of 444
Oh yeah, for all you blind diehards that think Apple can do no wrong, Stevie has this new flute he would like you to play, it is skin colored but trust him, it is a real instrument.
post #135 of 444
This is a total non-issue. Nobody who uses an iPhone expects to make phone calls.

Except data transmission is affected too.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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post #136 of 444
Here's another one for you apologists -- get to work!

http://gizmodo.com/5572624/the-lates...volume-buttons
post #137 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Keep smoking that pop pipe, Sonny.

I have solved the problem of holding the iPhone!

Now, everyone's going to be able to hold their iPhone 4 any way they like. Miracle of miracles!

Apple should "hand" out around 5 million of these to start, left handed only! Problem fixed!

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post #138 of 444
I will add to the count of those NOT having the antenna problem. I am in the Dallas area and typically run from 3-5 bars (pretty much consistent since my original 2G). With the 4G, indicated signal strength seems to run a tad higher than on my spouse's 3G. As the antenna issue had already been posted before I picked up my pre-ordered 4G at RS yesterday morning, I immediately tried the finger/hand test and could not duplicate. I figured that I must be in an area with super strong signal, so I have been trying it periodically as a move around (ie into areas of indicated lower signal strength). I have tried with my entire left palm contacting the suspect area as well as my finger or thumb. Regardless of conditions (ie dry or wet), I get a brief momentary drop of about one bar and then a rebound back to the original level.

I did get an Incipio silicone jacket for my 4G at time of purchase and with it, I have yet to detect any drop in indicated signal strength. So, while I will not begin to deny that many are seeing an issue with the new antenna design, my particular 4G appears to not be plagued with whatever is the underlying cause.
post #139 of 444
Please let Motorola be working on a new commercial, emergency rush - 24/7.

I just can't wait to see it:

"Hold your phone in your left hand? Droid does" ... 20 second fade of iPhone 4 in left hand going from 5 bars to no service.

Please, oh please Moto be working on this, not because I like Droid but to force Apple to react in the right way.
post #140 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post


So either: 1. This is acceptable for all phones and Apple just happened to make the worst phone ever made in terms of "signal blockage", or 2. There is a problem with the design and/or manufacturing of some number of iPhone 4's that needs to be corrected.

You're right.

I should have said "we'll find out how big this issues is after a month".

Obviously there are some phones that have a problem.

In a month we'll know if this is a really large issue and a recall or if it's a smaller issue where a few people need a replacement.
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post #141 of 444
This does seem to be a serious problem, but this article has a REALLY misleading headline.

If you're going to say "APPLE SAYS", you damn better well follow it up with something they actually said, not a paraphrase or spin on it.

Correct me if I missed something, but neither Jobs nor apple has said anyone is holding the phone "wrong". That would be some really ill-chosen wording if that's what they said...but they didn't, did they?
post #142 of 444
Mine experienced this initially. I did a restart, and now the only variance I see is from 5 bars to 3 bars.

In any case, I'll probably buy a bumper, as I planned to anyway. The phone is tiny and I'm afraid I'll drop it. Unfortunately, the Apple Store only ordered black for some reason, so I'll have to try elsewhere.

Does anyone know if AT&T, or Best Buy or some other vendor sells them?
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post #143 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh View Post

Please let Motorola be working on a new commercial, emergency rush - 24/7.

I just can't wait to see it:

"Hold your phone in your left hand? Droid does" ... 20 second fade of iPhone 4 in left hand going from 5 bars to no service.

Please, oh please Moto be working on this, not because I like Droid but to force Apple to react in the right way.

That would be funny to see.
Never even looked at a Android phone but unless Apple does something soon I
may switch to Android/Verizon

I dont buy phone to then buy a case, The only reason I have a Case on the 3G is the Back has a Crack about 1inch long.

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post #144 of 444
From the gizmodo leak, we found out that Apple was testing these phones in public in cases to disguise them and make them look like old iPhones.

I wonder if they did much testing without cases in real world use, if any? Pretty bad if they ended up with a design that only works well inside a case.
post #145 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh View Post

Please let Motorola be working on a new commercial, emergency rush - 24/7.

I just can't wait to see it:

"Hold your phone in your left hand? Droid does" ... 20 second fade of iPhone 4 in left hand going from 5 bars to no service.

Please, oh please Moto be working on this, not because I like Droid but to force Apple to react in the right way.

That's assuming the droid doesn't have a similar problem, as has been reported on Nexus One and other phones. Even if it's less severe on their phone, they can't really go after this unless they don't have the issue at all else risk bringing attention to their own problem.
post #146 of 444
I almost always agree with Steve, but this time I couldn't disagree more. Why wasn't this an issue with the other 3 iPhones? Because it wasn't an issue with the other 3 iPhones.

You can't teach the world how to hold a phone a particular way. Even worse, this problem affects the most comfortable position to hold the phone in. I lose the entire signal just by having my pinky finger anywhere near that corner.
post #147 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by aedwards View Post

If all you need to do is stop conductive contact between the two antenna sections, a small strip of the invisible Scotch tape over the join should do the trick.

Alan.

No this won't do it.
If your index finger is touching the upper antenna, and your pinky or another finger is touching the lower antenna, you've created the short. You don't have to put a finger right on the joint.
post #148 of 444
Seriously, did they actually do any research on how people actually have hold their phones before designing this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

Who is the bonehead at Apple who decided it would be a good idea to blame the customer?

Jobs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LongDukDong View Post

You're cute. I'm sure your loyalty won't go unnoticed by Apple.

Yes it will. We may be loyal to Apple, but Apple is loyal to no one.
post #149 of 444
I originally thought my iPhone didn't have the reception problem. The first few times I experimented with it, reception was fine. However last night I discovered otherwise.

The problem appears to be worse when the signal is already weak or perhaps when there is noise in area. While lying on my couch last night, holding the phone in my left hand (as I always have) resulted in two bars instead of five. With those two bars, all data traffic was ground to a halt. No data was passing over the 3G connection. When held without bridging the antennas, reception jumped back to five bars and throughput went back up to around 2Mbps. This was 100% repeatable over and over again over the course of a half hour of testing last night. Basically, the phone was completely unusable when used in a normal fashion.

I've already got a bumper on order so it will likely be a non-issue for me soon. But this is a definite problem, a major problem. Let's hope it can be fixed in the manufacturing process or via a software update. Otherwise, I hate to say it, but Apple stands to lose hundreds of millions of dollars and suffer a blow to its image. They'd have to allow millions of phones to be returned and/or respond to class action lawsuits.

Keep in mind that this report is coming from someone who isn't angry or enraged, loves apple products, and even loves the iPhone4 despite this problem. I'd even still recommend the phone to friends, with the caveat that it must be used with a bumper or case. With that said, this is a major problem!
post #150 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

Oh yeah, for all you blind diehards that think Apple can do no wrong, Stevie has this new flute he would like you to play, it is skin colored but trust him, it is a real instrument.

I couldn't tell if he was serious or sarcastic. But now it seems all his posts have been deleted from this thread. Thank you! They were nonsense posts repeated over and over and over and over again. (Time to go add somebody to my ignore list )
post #151 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

This does seem to be a serious problem, but this article has a REALLY misleading headline.

If you're going to say "APPLE SAYS", you damn better well follow it up with something they actually said, not a paraphrase or spin on it.

Correct me if I missed something, but neither Jobs nor apple has said anyone is holding the phone "wrong". That would be some really ill-chosen wording if that's what they said...but they didn't, did they?

Apple's quote is included in the article. How did you miss it?

It is not a stretch to take what Apple effectively said, don't hold it that way, and say that you're holding it "wrong" if you do.

All that said, ill-chosen wording or not, the response from Apple is a coverup for a bad design decision, despite apologist attempts to claim otherwise.
post #152 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

That's assuming the droid doesn't have a similar problem, as has been reported on Nexus One and other phones. Even if it's less severe on their phone, they can't really go after this unless they don't have the issue at all else risk bringing attention to their own problem.

A Motorola Droid is not an HTC Nexus, but just for you and for greater effect:

"Touch your phone with one finger? Droid does" ... 20 second fade of a Droid being touched with one finger and iPhone 4 being touched at the antenna gap on the lower left side causing the signal meter to crash from 5 bars to no service.

Even better.
post #153 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicv_84 View Post

I'd rather encased that with Gmask Skin than the rubber...

Any sheep skin bumpers? I'm allergic to rubber.
post #154 of 444
I'm one of the pre-orderers who will receive the iphone next month. I'm sure all these issues will be fixed with those iPhones.

Right?... Right?
post #155 of 444
OK, I believe all of you saying this is a problem and you are pissed and Apple should recall or give you a refund.

In the wake of them deciding what to do, please DM me with your contact info and I'll be happy to take your "Defective" phone off your hands, because I was one of the unlucky ones not able to get in on the Pre-Order due to AT&T's overworked servers.

I am willing to take one for the team and buy your phone from you so I don't have to wait until the middle of July to get my own personally defective phone and you can get a better phone.

--T
post #156 of 444
Apparently the issue isn't as defective design flaw that will cause require all iPhone 4's to be recalled. What will the Chicken Littles do now?

Engadget on the iPhone 4’s Reception
Engadget has this official statement from Apple on the iPhone 4 reception issue:
Gripping any mobile phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance, with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone. If you ever experience this on your iPhone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases. The key phrase is “if you ever experience this”; most iPhone 4 users seem unaffected by this. Engadget has a video showing the exact something thing happening with an iPhone 3G from 2008, and Joshua Topolsky admits that in their testing of the iPhone 4, “we had improved reception and fewer dropped calls than we experienced with the last generation, and we never noticed this issue.”

My best guess at this point is that the issue pops up in areas with spotty 3G coverage. With nothing covering the antenna, the improved reception of the iPhone 4 gives you more bars, maybe even up to 5. But when you cover the antenna in these areas with poor coverage, the phone is unable to get a strong signal. I’ve seen several reports from people who can reproduce the problem, but only from certain locations.

http://daringfireball.net/linked/201...dget-reception
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post #157 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Seriously, did they actually do any research on how people actually have hold their phones before designing this?



We have been misunderstanding Steve all this time. When we thought he said FLASH would degrade the iPhone's performance, he actually said FLESH.
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post #158 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

No this won't do it.
If your index finger is touching the upper antenna, and your pinky or another finger is touching the lower antenna, you've created the short. You don't have to put a finger right on the joint.

Actually, is possible that the impedance through several inches of flesh (having two different fingers touching each antenna) is too great to cause this issue. But "shorting" the gap by directing bridging it with a finger or other part of your palm, may be low enough impedance to allow interference.
post #159 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apparently the issue isn't as defective design flaw that will cause require all iPhone 4's to be recalled. What will the Chicken Littles do now?

Can't you wage this debate without the name calling?

What are trying to say anyway? That my reaction is chicken little?

This is a huge problem no matter whether the effected percentage of consumers is 10% or 90%.
post #160 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

Oh no. Use duct tape. You can fix anything with duct tape.

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