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Death Grip hysteria may end Monday with iOS 4.01 - Page 6

post #201 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Wow...So I had a 3Gs and it worked perfectly for me.

Mea culpa. You did refer your experience with your 3GS, not every 3GS.

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I upgraded to a new iPhone 4. Now if I use my new phone exactly like my old phone I loose my signal. I am not comparing it to any other phone in the world or any other carrier in the world. My situation is that my 3Gs work great. My 4G looses signal if I hold it wrong. If I hold it exactly like Steve did in his keynote presentation I loose signal.

I'd be getting a new one until this problem is resolved. I had to get 3 AppleTVs replaced within a month before I had one that worked right. I now have a mid-2010 13" MBP that doesn't come close to holding the battery charge for 10 hours and is incapable of resetting the PRAM. I'll be getting this fixed next week.

Quote:
So I post about this issue here and now you are labeling me a troll? Did I get that part right? I did not post about any other situation. I did not post claiming Apple is doomed!

Nope, never labeled you a troll. I said you weren't being objective by stating it is a "design flaw". This isn't binary labeling. There isn't just troll and objectivity. Nothing in your comments seem trollish to me.

Quote:
Checkout the Apple Support forums. There are others with the same issue.
But take the posts in the forums with a grain of salt...They do not generally post on the support forms to say all is well...
http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1378

I'm sure there are plenty of people with the issue. That isn't in question.
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post #202 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

You're assuming that anyone outside of LA LA Land thinks the LA Times is a major newspaper.

HA! Good point.
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post #203 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

But it's always validated after Cretin's Law, which states, "the faster and larger an online discussion grows, the probability of a civilized conversation based on the original topic approaches 0."


Right on. This round has gotten way off track and is now approaching useless.
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post #204 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:19am
I upgraded my old 3G to iOS4 on the day it was released. Boy, am I sorry. Steve wasn't kidding when he said the processor wasn't even strong enough to run the wallpaper feature. Truth be told, it isn't strong enough to run any of it. I am going to restore the old OS as soon as I can. Every process on the phone has slowed down--it's now a slug. My advice to all, unless you have a 3G(s), don't upgrade.
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post #205 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:21am
It's on the front page of The Daily Telegraph here in the UK - a well respected national broadsheet.
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post #206 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

I upgraded my old 3G to iOS4 on the day it was released. Boy, am I sorry. Steve wasn't kidding when he said the processor wasn't even strong enough to run the wallpaper feature. Truth be told, it isn't strong enough to run any of it. I am going to restore the old OS as soon as I can. Every process on the phone has slowed down--it's now a slug. My advice to all, unless you have a 3G(s), don't upgrade.

My iPod Touch is also sluggish after the update. I might downgrade the OS too.
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post #207 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:25am
Apparently it IS perfectly acceptable to tell people where to hold their phones.

See page 6 of the 'HTC Incredible Manual'.

http://member.america.htc.com/downlo...d-Warranty.pdf
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post #208 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I see that you are quite artful in dodging direct questions. Questions that deserve direct answers. Take this for instance:



You don't say if you are shorting Apple stock, you don't say if you own competitor's stock, you give no sense of how much "much" is. And you still refuse to divulge who you work for. This is hypocrisy indeed!

And, I also note that you still haven't denied your involvement with Glenn Beck in the murder of a girl in 1990. Very clever to use words that imply you don't know him without actually coming right out and denying your association with him.

You sir, look guiltier and guiltier by the second.

Damn you sound like an idiot. Talking about others when 99% of the time you post without saying anything.
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post #209 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brawnr View Post

It's on the front page of The Daily Telegraph here in the UK - a well respected national broadsheet.

It's all over every major news outlet. Regardless of whether this is a design flaw, a manufacturing defect, a software defect, or even if it's nothing at all but actual hysteria, Apple has totally blown the PR on this issue. It's gotten away from them and they are getting bad press left and right. And, even if it were to turn out to be nothing, the damage will have been done -- most people won't even read or see or hear the followup store that says it was no big deal. (That was just a hypothetical resolution, I'm not coming down on either side of the issue at this point.)

I think they still have a chance to salvage the PR, but I don't think their usual strategy of just keeping quiet is going to work.

(I'm not saying that they are totally screwed, but I do think they can end up with a serious black eye from this issue, regardless of how it turns out, if they just let the traditional media and blogosphere run wild with it.)
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post #210 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Apparently it IS perfectly acceptable to tell people where to hold their phones.

See page 6 of the 'HTC Incredible Manual'.

http://member.america.htc.com/downlo...d-Warranty.pdf

Oh, this is rich! Copy this link for use as troll repellent.
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post #211 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Apparently it IS perfectly acceptable to tell people where to hold their phones.

See page 6 of the 'HTC Incredible Manual'.

http://member.america.htc.com/downlo...d-Warranty.pdf

...but there's a difference between "optimises antenna performance" and the phone being useless if you touch it here.
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post #212 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Damn you sound like an idiot. Talking about others when 99% of the time you post without saying anything.

Dude, he's kidding. I wondered for a moment too until I read the Glenn Beck part. Facetiousness can easily be mistaken.
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post #213 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Apparently it IS perfectly acceptable to tell people where to hold their phones.

See page 6 of the 'HTC Incredible Manual'.

http://member.america.htc.com/downlo...d-Warranty.pdf

But I don't want to compare my experience with any other company other than Apple. If I hold my 4G like they did in the keynote presentation then I lose signal down to 'searching" then "No Service".
Hopefully it is a very very small percentage that has this issue and I can return my phone and get one that does not have this issue. I just want it to work......

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post #214 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Damn you sound like an idiot. Talking about others when 99% of the time you post without saying anything.

Yes, well, the difference between us in that regard is that in the post you are quoting, I intend to sound like an idiot, although, I thought the OP would have caught on by now that I'm jerking his chain to point out to him that he does too. You, I know, are able to accomplish this feat of sounding like an idiot without even trying.

I will also invite anyone interested, to go look at my posting history and see that, as usual, you post with utter disregard for the truth. Bit of a habit with you, isn't it?
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post #215 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brawnr View Post

...but there's a difference between "optimises antenna performance" and the phone being useless if you touch it here.

There would be a difference if it were totally useless. But serious reviewers (Mossberg, etc.) don't claim "useless," just less than optimal. Therefore, the reference if perfectly apropos.
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post #216 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

It's all over every major news outlet.

On my Yahoo News page, I see stories from AP, Reuters, CNBC, LA Times. I see one story under Technology News about the reception problems. It's not "all over".
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post #217 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:44am
The article suggesting it's a software issue and there'll be a fix just doesn't pass the common sense test. The author is suggesting that it's merely that the signal strength indicator is incorrect. That the signal is actually solid even when the status indicates "no signal".

But this is not true. Try any speed test and notice how the data download speeds are significantly affected by a normal left-handed grip. Notice the numerous users who've reported dropped calls. I've actually tested call quality by calling my landline's voice mail. When the phone is lying flat on a table, call quality is great. As soon as I pick it up, call quality degrades where I can only make out about one in four words...When I set the phone back on the table it also takes a long time for the call quality to recover...

The solution seems to be the "bumper" which Apple should make available for free in lieu of a production recall...
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post #218 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

on the other hand ireland seemed cool for yrs now
and his first 10x posts made sence
yet he over blown cryBABY diatribes WHILE NOT EVEN OWNING A IPHONE 4
MACTIPPER STLYE TROLLING

You're a troll.

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post #219 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptischism View Post

The article suggesting it's a software issue and there'll be a fix just doesn't pass the common sense test. The author is suggesting that it's merely that the signal strength indicator is incorrect. That the signal is actually solid even when the status indicates "no signal".

The author didn't merely suggest it's cosmetic, but that still doesn't make it a software issue.

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post #220 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Park Seward View Post

On my Yahoo News page, I see stories from AP, Reuters, CNBC, LA Times. I see one story under Technology News about the reception problems. It's not "all over".

Actually it is, I've seen it on the BBC news.

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post #221 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:51am
Nice video review of the iPhone 4 from ABC.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/tech-157...video=20533464
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post #222 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanTiger View Post




Resting your keyboard would be more beneficial.



Now that's some funny sheaat.
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post #223 of 606
6/26/10 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Actually it is, I've seen it on the BBC news.

Having been trained as a journalist, I don't like broad generalizations like "all over". The story is being reported but it's not front page news. Even the "hometown" newspaper in San Jose, the story doesn't make the "top of the fold."

Watching with interest for the Monday update.
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post #224 of 606
6/26/10 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

I upgraded my old 3G to iOS4 on the day it was released. Boy, am I sorry. Steve wasn't kidding when he said the processor wasn't even strong enough to run the wallpaper feature. Truth be told, it isn't strong enough to run any of it. I am going to restore the old OS as soon as I can. Every process on the phone has slowed down--it's now a slug. My advice to all, unless you have a 3G(s), don't upgrade.

I had a 3G I upgraded and it was hopelessly slow to do most functions. Probably most annoying was the camera and moving icons because of folders. It wasn't what you'd expect from Apple. It put me off thinking the iOS had much excitement left in it. That all changed with iPhone 4 running it. It really feels different, animations, folders, camera all feel amazingly good. The screen brings it all together and iOS seems like it's future is brighter than ever.

I've got the reception issue, I'm actually getting used to holding the phone differently when I need. It's actually starting to feel natural to hold it differently. It's still unacceptable though and I will get a case. I can't say I'm hopefull that the update will work. Level 2 technicians are calling Mon,Tues so I'll see what they say.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #225 of 606
6/26/10 at 11:04am
I think Apple and pro-Apple bloggers (like Daniel) can learn a lesson from this.

If you spend many months hyping up a product as revolutionary and as the pinnacle of mankind don't be surprised if there's a massive overreaction to the smallest of problems with your product.

People who queue overnight are going expect the product to be perfect. They will complain very loudly if it isn't.
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post #226 of 606
6/26/10 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptischism View Post

The article suggesting it's a software issue and there'll be a fix just doesn't pass the common sense test. The author is suggesting that it's merely that the signal strength indicator is incorrect. That the signal is actually solid even when the status indicates "no signal".

But this is not true. Try any speed test and notice how the data download speeds are significantly affected by a normal left-handed grip. Notice the numerous users who've reported dropped calls. I've actually tested call quality by calling my landline's voice mail. When the phone is lying flat on a table, call quality is great. As soon as I pick it up, call quality degrades where I can only make out about one in four words...When I set the phone back on the table it also takes a long time for the call quality to recover...

The solution seems to be the "bumper" which Apple should make available for free in lieu of a production recall...

I can confirm this with my iPhone 4. I turned off Wi-FI and used SpeedTest. Here are my results:

Holding the phone with an open palm:



Using the "Death Grip":

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post #227 of 606
6/26/10 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

I upgraded my old 3G to iOS4 on the day it was released. Boy, am I sorry. Steve wasn't kidding when he said the processor wasn't even strong enough to run the wallpaper feature. Truth be told, it isn't strong enough to run any of it. I am going to restore the old OS as soon as I can. Every process on the phone has slowed down--it's now a slug. My advice to all, unless you have a 3G(s), don't upgrade.

But how are you going to use the gyroscope feature or noise cancellation technology of iOS 4.0 if you downgrade??
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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post #228 of 606
6/26/10 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I can confirm this with my iPhone 4. I turned off Wi-FI and used SpeedTest. Here are my results:

Holding the phone with an open palm:



Using the "Death Grip":



"Don't be a crybaby, you're just holding the phone wrong. Buy a $29.99 rubber bumper if you are still incompetent enough to hold a phone properly." -Steve Jobs
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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post #229 of 606
6/26/10 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptischism View Post

The article suggesting it's a software issue and there'll be a fix just doesn't pass the common sense test. The author is suggesting that it's merely that the signal strength indicator is incorrect. That the signal is actually solid even when the status indicates "no signal".

But this is not true. Try any speed test and notice how the data download speeds are significantly affected by a normal left-handed grip. Notice the numerous users who've reported dropped calls. I've actually tested call quality by calling my landline's voice mail. When the phone is lying flat on a table, call quality is great. As soon as I pick it up, call quality degrades where I can only make out about one in four words...When I set the phone back on the table it also takes a long time for the call quality to recover...

That doesn't mean it is not a software issue. All cell phones experience this due to the placement of the antennas at the bottom of the handset. FCC requires that they be placed as far as possible from the head. The issue is also experienced on a 3GS that has been upgraded to iOS4.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-20008945-263.html

It has to do with the way the signal degradation/strenth is handled by the software. The same way your transmitter/receiver power is cranked up when you have poor cell reception. This is all handled in software, not hardware.
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post #230 of 606
6/26/10 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacApfel View Post

if you are an early adopter, give this thing some time in the wild, and also think about how many people do NOT have problems. As long as that's the vast majority - there is no real problem.

It's much more fun to whine that the over-percieved problem is the end of the world!


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post #231 of 606
6/26/10 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

Hate trolls?
Stop reading g3pro comments.

I would if people would stop quoting entire posts of trolls...

BTW - iPhone 3Gs upgraded to iOS 4 and an iPhone 4 that work fine - so far the iPhone 4 has been flawless - no dropped or failed calls yet - woot!
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post #232 of 606
6/26/10 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alectheking View Post

Yeah, flawless. I dont sit here and bitch about little "issues" which are really non-issues. Mine has worked well beyond my expectations.

Agreed, I have no issues with mine, I can replicate the no bars syndrome but even when it is showing no bars i can still make and receive calls no problem, so let's see what Apple come up with for a fix before we write off the new gorgeous flawless iPhone4
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post #233 of 606
6/26/10 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

What kind of an argument is that? Yeah, no one is forcing me to buy a phone that I wanted but doesn't work as advertised because when you hold it in your left hand it slows data speeds and drops calls. Present a decent argument, otherwise quit talking out your ass.

Excessive moisture increases conduction between the two antennas.

So why do you have sweaty palms? The only way I could replicate the behavior was by licking my palm (It's kind of childish but this is...)

And even in displaying No Service, amazingly the phone still made and connected to a call that sounded fine. Is that a decent enough argument that it's predominantly a software issue, or is the iPhone 4 fatally flawed and we shouldn't bother trying to confuse you with facts?
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post #234 of 606
6/26/10 at 11:35am
In other news: crude oil continues to pollute the Gulf of Mexico for over two months now. How about solving the real issues first?
Matyoroy!
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post #235 of 606
6/26/10 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubiousutility View Post

To determine whether this is just a problem with the software measurement of the signal strength, I tested the actual data throughput speed in both unheld and held states. The impact of holding the iPhone in your hand is SEVERE, cutting up/down speeds to a fraction of their unheld potential. Here are the results.

You will get the same thing with the 3GS - or any other smart phone.

Body mass (salt water specifically) absorbs and thus reduces radio frequency radiation.

Period.

"You canna change the laws of physics"

You might want to really read the article that was linked to in the orignal story:

http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys...-antennas.html

Particularly the last line. Maybe twice, just to ensure you read what the author really wrote and not what you expect him to write (unlike some other posters in this thread).

More than a problem with the iPhone, this is an example of totally unrealistic expectations by people who really do think this crap works by magic And blaming that on Steve or Apple overhyping and over-marketing is just intellectual laziness. Every company talks up their good points and de-emphasises their weak points. As a consumer, it's your job to weed out the relevant from the irrelevant. Same for blog postings on the Internet - sheesh. I'm not sure as a race we are mature enough for the instant communication we get through the Internet.
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post #236 of 606
6/26/10 at 11:38am
Well I hope the 4.01 update fixes the severe slowdown problems of iOS on older iPhones. My 3G iPhone is even slower and laggy than it was before.
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post #237 of 606
6/26/10 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnako View Post

You make it sound as if people are covering the antenna on purpose just to complain.

Many are, unfortunately.

Quote:
This is my first post and I just registered to say that I don't try to cover the antenna, I just pick the phone with my hand like I've normally done with my previous iPhone and the signal goes away.

Did you do that before or after you read or heard about it on the Internet? Because on my 3GS with iOS 4 it did the same thing, but I never noticed, and I doubt the majority of people posting about it would have noticed if they hadn't read about it somewhere else, tried it and then it became a "major problem".

Perception becomes reality


Quote:
This certainly is a design flaw because how are you not supposed to cover the antenna if the antena is surrounding the entire phone?.

The cellular anntenna is only the strip on the bottom of the phone (notice the gap in the band on either side?). The upper antenna is for wi-fi and Bleatooth.
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post #238 of 606
6/26/10 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scafe2 View Post

Agreed, I have no issues with mine, I can replicate the no bars syndrome but even when it is showing no bars i can still make and receive calls no problem, so let's see what Apple come up with for a fix before we write off the new gorgeous flawless iPhone4

I have the no signal issue. I just ran a test with my son's 3G. I called him when I had 4 bars from 4G. then I held the phone until the bars started to go down and it dropped the call. It said call failed. I tried having him call me and when I had full bars the call went through as normally would. But if I help the phone in my hand normally with my whole hand them my calls get dropped. It didn't matter if it was an incoming or outgoing call it was dropped. I tried to make calls when it said "No Service" to test if it was just reporting it incorrectly...but "No service" means .....no service. it would not go through.
That is my situation with my new 4G....yours may differ. Later today I am going back to the Apple Store and try to get it replaced. Maybe a new phone will alleviated the problem.
I will report back later what my experiences are with that process.

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post #239 of 606
6/26/10 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by slocummedia View Post

People just want to be assured they won't be stuck with a useless brick. Do you get that? Geez.

I think we are far from that. Do you even own one? Have you done more than hold one in an Apple store? Because even with no bars on the display (after licking my palm and carefully gripping the phone to induce the problem to happen) mine connects and makes good sounding phone calls.

Sheesh indeed. No wonder Tivo was so resistant to putting in a free space indicator and Apple is traditionally resistant to spitting out tech details on the iDevices. If the problem hadn't been so over-blown in the blogosphere and then stupidly "reported" by the main stream media, how many people would have really noticed an actual impact on their real world usage? I can say without a doubt that the iPhone 4 is leaps and bounds better than my 3Gs - I was starting to get a rash of dropped and failed calls and it was really beginning to tick me off. I've had none of that with the iPhone 4. Indeed, I've had calls survive dead zones where my 3Gs would drop out routinely.

So to go so far as "useless brick" is WAY to the extreme hyperbole side of things
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post #240 of 606
6/26/10 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddych View Post

I walked around to the iPhone displays (12 of them) and held each phone deliberately trying to cause the problem. I held the phone in my left hand with the seam directly in my palm. I held each phone there for about a minute, sometimes less if the issue arose faster than that. [b]I did not make any calls

So let me get this straight - instead of making a test call, you decided on whether you should or should not buy a phone by looking at a essentially meaningless meter on the display?

And people wonder why Apple exercises extreme minimalism? Talk about focusing on something that doesn't even matter!
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