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Death Grip hysteria may end Monday with iOS 4.01 - Page 7

post #241 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brawnr View Post

...but there's a difference between "optimises antenna performance" and the phone being useless if you touch it here.

And for those of us who actually own an iPhone 4, it's hardly useless even if you touch it "here".



And if you do have an iPhone 4 and it is useless if you touch it "here" then take it back and get another one! $hit happens - luckily Apple is one of the most liberal companies in repairing or replacing electronics that I have ever dealt with. Heck, they have swapped out stuff for me that wasn't even under warranty - I didn't ask, I just wanted to see what it would take to get it repaired.

That's why I find comments like yours and the "they just don't want a bricked phone" so disingenuous. You don't have over 90% customer satisfaction ratings - ON A CONTINUAL BASIS - by screwing over and not taking care of your customers!

Flipping trolls - I can't believe I'm still being sucked into this thread...
post #242 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

People who queue overnight are going expect the product to be perfect. They will complain very loudly if it isn't.

And they will still be guilty of their own overblown and unrealistic expectations. Hula Hoop anyone?

The only difference is they now have forums like this to express their over inflated senses of self-entitlement
post #243 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Can you please run the SpeedTest utility like I did above? My wireless speeds drop dramatically when holding it normally (aka Death Grip).

There's no sense arguing with trolls like DocNo42. They'll just keep up their tireless act regardless.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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post #244 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

But how are you going to use the gyroscope feature or noise cancellation technology of iOS 4.0 if you downgrade??

The 3G has neither.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #245 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

You don't have over 90% customer satisfaction ratings - ON A CONTINUAL BASIS - by screwing over and not taking care of your customers!

A lot of people just don't know any better. For instance, there are plenty of people here who would rate Apple highly if Apple replaced their poorly-designed iPhone 4s, but that doesn't negate the fact that Apple had a poorly-designed phone in the first place.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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post #246 of 604
Aaaaaannnnnnnnnnddddddddd.

It's not only the 4 or the 3Gs that has this issue.

My 3G has exhibited this issue both yesterday and this morning.

Looks like I will be performing a baseband preserving jailbreak update on my wife's 3G to keep an unlockable iPhone for my trips outside of the US.
post #247 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

The 3G has neither.

I'm pretty sure that once all iPhone users upgrade to the latest version of iOS, which is version 4.0, that they will all have the same features, which includes the gyroscope capability. It would be an example of fragmentation as solipsism would say, but that could never be true in this situation.

Upgrading old phones virtually guarantees seamless feature parity across all iPhone versions.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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post #248 of 604
Gizmodo won't let you post any thing but agreeable comments to their stories. Just to help you guys understand what insane yellow journalism this is, I'm posting the comment that provoked Gizmodo editors to ban me from Gizmodo.

Quote:
Congratulations, Gizmodo, you wagged the dog. Anyone that ever payed attention before noticed that all cell phones exhibit the behavior you have sensationalized. All of them, every cell phone ever manufactured by anyone will show diminished reception when you touch it, hold it a certain way. This is physics, and science, and thanks so much for showing how gullible Americans are.

Ever since Gizmodo committed a felony buying stolen property, they've been attempting to smear Apple. I don't really care, they will fail, and will likely fold as a result of their idiotic war. What troubles me is they shirking their responsibilities as journalists (and I use the loosest possible sense of that word so as not to insult actual journalists) and actually reporting FALSE INFORMATION.

"We only approve the comments that we love." http://gawker.com/commentfaq/

Gizmodo, you are excrement.
post #249 of 604
Steve Jobs has recommended another fix for the reception problem, which is demonstrated here:




Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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post #250 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by alectheking View Post

Yeah, flawless. I dont sit here and bitch about little "issues" which are really non-issues. Mine has worked well beyond my expectations.

mine has no problems too.

"Apple people have no objectivity when it comes to criticism of Apple.." Lenovo X1 Carbon is out..bye bye MBAir

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"Apple people have no objectivity when it comes to criticism of Apple.." Lenovo X1 Carbon is out..bye bye MBAir

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post #251 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plagen View Post

Clearly, you don't understand it at all

1. Take a regular multimeter and measure the resistance between the sides of the gap. Guess what, it's already very small, almost a short. Apparently, the resistance of the electrical circuit is already very low, much lower than your hand.

2. No, the capacitive touch screen does not require your fingers to be conductive. Take any thin plastic film, or tape, and touch the screen through it.

You see, somehow I think that Apple engineers understand the issue just a little bit better than all the backseat drivers on this forum.

Okay, i guess I misunderstood how capacitive touchscreens work.

Re: point #1, what you're saying about the resistance between antennas may be true but how do you explain that bridging the antenna gap with skin is, for most people, the only reliable way to reproduce this problem? I understand that people argue about how to repro this problem but I have seen dozens or maybe hundreds of reports that when the gap is covered with scotch tape, a piece of paper, fingernail lacquer, or a rubber/plastic case, then the problem disappears. Basically even the thinnest layer of insulation is enough to solve the problem so I HAVE to assume that the electrical conductivity of human skin is playing a role.
post #252 of 604
I am surprised that none of these reviewers found this flaw in their reviews. Do they never hold the phone in their left hand at all when doing a review?
post #253 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Many are, unfortunately.



Did you do that before or after you read or heard about it on the Internet? Because on my 3GS with iOS 4 it did the same thing, but I never noticed, and I doubt the majority of people posting about it would have noticed if they hadn't read about it somewhere else, tried it and then it became a "major problem".

Perception becomes reality




The cellular anntenna is only the strip on the bottom of the phone (notice the gap in the band on either side?). The upper antenna is for wi-fi and Bleatooth.

I'm tired of reading clueless crap from people who don't know what they're talking about. People are having real problems, respect them or expect to be told you're ignorant.
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post #254 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Can you please run the SpeedTest utility like I did above? My wireless speeds drop dramatically when holding it normally (aka Death Grip).

Try it gripping the bottom portion tightly WITHOUT touching the WiFi+BT antenna thus not creating this phantom "short circuit" Ireland and others are claiming is undeniably the reason for this "design flaw".

edit: Running some more tests... I placed my iPhone on it's side with left edge up, and place my finger on the WiFi+BT antenna not bridging the gap with my conductive fingers. Out of three tests I get an average of 2,546ms ping, 1,146kbps download, 1,070kbps upload. If I then bridge the gap creating this "short circuit" I then, out of three tests, get an average of 430ms ping, 1,134kbps downloads, and 1,124kbps uploads. I'd estimate there is about 4x as much contact with my finger in the 2nd test. How exactly is this, without a fraction of doubt, a design flaw from integrating the antennas into the frame if it's not affecting every iPhone 4?
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post #255 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

The cellular anntenna is only the strip on the bottom of the phone (notice the gap in the band on either side?). The upper antenna is for wi-fi and Bleatooth.

You sure about that??


post #256 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

And for those of us who actually own an iPhone 4, it's hardly useless even if you touch it "here".



And if you do have an iPhone 4 and it is useless if you touch it "here" then take it back and get another one! $hit happens - luckily Apple is one of the most liberal companies in repairing or replacing electronics that I have ever dealt with. Heck, they have swapped out stuff for me that wasn't even under warranty - I didn't ask, I just wanted to see what it would take to get it repaired.

That's why I find comments like yours and the "they just don't want a bricked phone" so disingenuous. You don't have over 90% customer satisfaction ratings - ON A CONTINUAL BASIS - by screwing over and not taking care of your customers!

Flipping trolls - I can't believe I'm still being sucked into this thread...

I do have an iPhone 4, thank you very much. See my previous posts. I'm finding the immaturity displayed by some members of this forum to be somewhat pathetic. Any criticism of Apple or their products leads to one of their pet Chihuahua biting at your ankles. You obviously aren't affected by the problems, but why are you so quick to deny that others are?

Apple create some truly fantastic products and software. I own a MacBook Pro, iPod Classic and an iPod Touch. This is my first iPhone and I'm afraid its currently failing to deliver its primary function - a phone. I'm in a relatively poor reception area (about 4 bars with no 3G coverage) and I can consistently cause the phone to drop all reception by holding it in my left hand. Which, if you are right handed, is the natural thing to do when you are using Safari (hold in the left, use the fingers on the right hand). Even in good reception areas with 3G coverage I can get the reception to drop to 1 or 2 bars just by holding the phone in the left hand. I have also noticed that the reception drops in the right hand - just touching the phone's metal band causes signal degradation. I cannot replicate any of these things on my old Samsung X820.

I think the iPhone 4 is fantastic, that's why I bought one, but at the moment it's reception is not satisfactory. Under UK law I can return the item as 'not fit for purpose' under the Sales of Goods Act. However, I really want this phone to work and I'm crossing my fingers that a software patch will resolve the problem. If not (and it turns out to be a design flaw inherent in the hardware), then I'll need to seriously think about returning the phone.

I want the iPhone 4 to succeed.
post #257 of 604
I want to add something to try and calm some of the people on both sides. Problems with electronics are very common. If you report the problem to the company who has the problem gear, they usually investigate it and get back with you. I'm sure the Apple support group has reported this problem to their engineers and they are looking into it.

It seems most people are having a problem with Steve Job's statement that they are not holding their phone correctly. I wish he hadn't said that. It only added fuel to the fire. Look at it from SJ point of view. He is a very busy man trying to answer as many tasks as possible. His line was short and (from his point f view) to the point. I believe what he meant was the customer may be blocking the signal by the way they are holding the phone. Most of us don't know much about antennae technology in a cell phone. All we know is it works or it doesn't work.

Give Apple time to work on the problem. I'm not an Apple engineer but if I were them, I would get examples from customers having the problem and phones from customers not having the problem. Try to find out what is different in a methodical way. Then report your findings to your customers in a calm and precise manner. Then they can make their proposals for a solution from there. I'm sure this will happen within the next 30 days.

Until then, I would suggest that people having the problem should use a cover on their phone or return the phone for a replacement or return the phone for their money back. Going on internet blogs calling a company every thing you can think of because it didn't produce a perfect product is a little sad. We are better than this. The engineers at Apple are very proud people just like you and I. They want us to have the best experience with their products. If it is not, I'm sure they are working hard to make it right. Give them some time to work it out. They have over 25 years of good support behind their products. The iPhone 4 has been out only a few days. Give them a break.
post #258 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I'm tired of reading clueless crap from people who don't know what they're talking about. People are having real problems, respect them or expect to be told you're ignorant.

Well said.
post #259 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Try it gripping the bottom portion tightly WITHOUT touching the WiFi+BT antenna thus not creating this phantom "short circuit" Ireland and others are claiming is undeniably the reason for this "design flaw".

It's nearly impossible to comfortably grip the phone tightly in your hand touching the bottom of the phone (without feeling like you're going to drop it) and not having your palm rest on the "bridge". The only way I was able to do was to hold it like my hand was a "claw" (My four fingers were grasping the top of the phone, and my palm was cradling the bottom of the phone).

Doing it that way, I have no appreciable drop in performance (yes, the download numbers in this shot look a little off, but I ran it a couple of times and got numbers similar to what I posted on page 6).

post #260 of 604
It's hysteria I tells ya!
Hysteria!
Wibble wibble wibble wibble.
post #261 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

It's nearly impossible to comfortably grip the phone tightly in your hand touching the bottom of the phone (without feeling like you're going to drop it) and not having your palm rest on the "bridge". The only way I was able to do was to hold it like my hand was a "claw" (My four fingers were grasping the top of the phone, and my palm was cradling the bottom of the phone).

Doing it that way, I have no drop in performance.

image: http://i50.tinypic.com/2iaef6b.jpg

Then do it over the couch or bed but I had no problem gripping the device tightly with my forginger and thumb extended and the left corner pressed into the inside of the dorsal interosseous muscle (I think).

If I grip that tightly I loss signal. If I free up from pretty much all RF interference but bridge that gap between antennas with my finger or metal I don't loss anything. Again, how is that a design flaw caused by a short circuit?

Nothing in these forums supports that claim, all they show is that when you block the signal the throughput drops, as one should expect. What is wrong is the level it's dropping and the complete loss of signal from holding your phone comfortably, which points toward a production or SW issue, but I'm leading toward production and would be first in line to get a new device if I had this issue.
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post #262 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillin View Post

Gizmodo, you are excrement.

Do you read Daring Fireball? Just curious.
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post #263 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I am surprised that none of these reviewers found this flaw in their reviews. Do they never hold the phone in their left hand at all when doing a review?

If Apple knew about the issue I'm sure they had 5 phones that didn't have it or weren't that bad.
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post #264 of 604
Denial.
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post #265 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Then do it over the couch or bed but I had no problem gripping the device tightly with my forginger and thumb extended and the left corner pressed into the inside of the dorsal interosseous muscle (I think).

If I grip that tightly I loss signal. If I free up from pretty much all RF interference but bridge that gap between antennas with my finger or metal I don't loss anything. Again, how is that a design flaw caused by a short circuit?

Nothing in these forums supports that claim, all they show is that when you block the signal the throughput drops, as one should expect. What is wrong is the level it's dropping and the complete loss of signal from holding your phone comfortably, which points toward a production or SW issue, but I'm leading toward production and would be first in line to get a new device if I had this issue.

I don't think I ever mentioned anything about a short circuit...

That being said, I don't care HOW the problem is manifested be it hardware or software. I just want it fixed, that is all

Holding my phone the same way I did my 3GS (and my wife's 3GS... or for that matter, any smartphone) I get drops in bars, dropped calls, and missed calls (I missed a call from my wife yesterday because of the Death Grip -- it went to voicemail).

That being said, I just got it to totally go bonkers holding it normally:

post #266 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I don't think I ever mentioned anything about a short circuit...

"It's a short circuiting do to a design flaw" is the argument put forth by the trolls that others have tried to debunk as being fallacious. I've seen no one saying it's not an issue.

Quote:
That being said, I don't care HOW the problem is manifested be it hardware or software. I just want it fixed, that is all

Anyone with this problem should get a new iPhone or return it for a full refund. This is CE off a production line made with components offer other production lines that are made with components off other companies. THERE WILL BE PRODUCTION ISSUES.

We are foolish to not expect more issues hitting the net each year as the number of units sold increases. That does not mean there are a higher percentage of issues happening simply because there are more posts on forums and blogs about an issue.
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post #267 of 604
The evidence for the antenna issue is absolutely evident here: (watch at 2:47 mark)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNmXrVNeGzs
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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post #268 of 604
It seems incontrovertible that Apple simply is not test devices in any meaningful way or in a way that any reasonable consumer would use the devices. It seems self-evident that a consumer would cradle the expensive little thing so that it would not slip out of their hand and break on the floor.

It seems equally obvious that the present problem was well know to Apple and Steve who simply ignored it. It would not have been at all difficult to have designed the device to avoid this problem or failing that to have included something akin to the bumper with the phone in the first place.

Not only that, but Steve, once again, pumped out misinformation, this time about upgrades. His credibility declines with nearly every presentation he performs.

Apple's responses to these entirely preventable issues have been very disappointing, indeed.
post #269 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

"It's a short circuiting do to a design flaw" is the argument put forth by the trolls that others have tried to debunk as being fallacious. I've seen no one saying it's not an issue.


Anyone with this problem should get a new iPhone or return it for a full refund. This is CE off a production line made with components offer other production lines that are made with components off other companies. THERE WILL BE PRODUCTION ISSUES.

We are foolish to not expect more issues hitting the net each year as the number of units sold increases. That does not mean there are a higher percentage of issues happening simply because there are more posts on forums and blogs about an issue.

I do agree with you on the fact that ANY mass produced product will have product that does not meet quality standards.
This is true of any and all manufactured goods.
I don't think we are seeing a dis-appropriate amount of complaining or reporting about this issue. Apple enjoyed all the positive hype...now it can enjoy the not so positive hype.
It is true that the majority of the 4G users will not have an issue with their phones. Great for them. But those of us that are having signal loss and dropped calls just because we hold our phone in a completely normal fashion have a right to post our experiences about that without being painted in a negative light.
We should not have to so rigorously defend ourselves for report a problem.
The fact that it is not happening to everyone is encouraging. I am going to go to my local Apple store in a couple of hours and return my phone for a new one. hopefully it won't have the signal loss issue.

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post #270 of 604
source: http://www.thomas-fitzgerald.net/201...gy-journalism/

Quote:
By now youve all heard reports that the iPhone 4 has a terrible design flaw that makes it useless for calls once you pick it up. Well, ok, Im exaggerating a bit but youd be forgiven for thinking that with the way this story has spread like wild fire. Now, I dont doubt that some people are having an issue with this, but Im amazed at the way this story was reported and the way it was picked up by the mainstream news media. First of all, Gizmodo were pushing this big time on Thursday, along with any other story they could find to paint the iPhone in a bad light (including, surprise surprise, you drop it and it breaks). Big surprise. From there other blogs started picking up on it and then it reached the mainstream media. What amazes me about this is that, first of all, most of the people reviewing the phone never noticed an issue with it and that most reviewers had noticed improved reception.

Secondly, as has already been pointed out, the same thing happens to existing phones. When Apple said this in their email they were set upon by bloggers for being dismissive of the fatal design flaw but theyre telling the truth. I tried it with my iPhone 3G and it does the exact same thing. Hold it in the bottom left corner and the signal drops. Ive had my phone for over 2 years and I never noticed this issue until someone pointed it out and I tried to replicate it. But what I find really telling about the reporting on this is that virtually none of the mainstream media reports into this did any research or looked even remotely into the issue. They just reported on the Gizmodo story coupled with a few anecdotes from viewers or readers who were having reception issues. Im not trying to down play the problems of those who are having problems, what Im annoyed about is the complete and utter lack of perspective. For a start, a little bit of research would have found out that the Nexus one had the exact same issue when it was launched. But where was the outrage there? Where was the massive controversy about the Nexus being flawed? Why wasnt this pushed as the main story by Gizmodo for several days? It certainly never reached the mainstream media, and yet according to the people experiencing the issue, its pretty much the same.

The problem is now that regardless of the extent of the reception issue, it will forever be seen as the design flaw of the iPhone. Anyone who tries to point out that other phones do in fact experience this are immediately branded as fanboys. Its amazing how people are so eager to buy any controversy that involves Apple that they loose all sense of reason or balance. Its gotten so bad lately that Ive almost given up blogging about Apple and the mac, two subjects close to my heart. It seems that people are only interested in expressing phoney outrage at some inconsequential thing Apple does and creating giant controversies out of insignificant issues (Im not talking about the iPhone 4 reception issue here before people start giving out about that Im saying its an insignificant issue although for many people apparently it is). Its amazing to me how there has developed this complete disconnect between the impression you get about Apple from reading technology sites and publications, and the reality on the ground. The tech press (particularly tech blogs*) has lately been overwhelmingly negative about the Cupertino company, and yet contrast that with hundreds of thousands of people queuing for an iPhone 4. Were given the impression that the iPhone is a terrible platform for developers and that its atrocious policies mean developers are abandoning it in droves for Android, and yet contrast that with WWDC selling out in 8 days.

I think the root of the problem, or at least part of it is the way a story spreads. It often starts on a blog when someone publishes their opinion on something that Apple has done. The problem with a lot of blogs though (and Im talking big publications who call themselves blogs, not the average independent blogger) is that they often report opinion as fact. This fact then gets picked up and reported on as news and hey presto, instant controversy. A perfect example is the so called controversy of the iPhone 4s retina display. Someone found a so called expert from some display firm that no one had ever heard of before this who disputed Apples claims about the retina display. They expressed that in their opinion Apple was incorrect. However it wasnt reported that way. It was reported that Apple was misleading customers. This simple act of turning an opinion into a fact quickly spread across the web and became the latest in a series of controversies to engulf Apple. A few days later though many more experts chimed in with their views on the matter. Most defending Apples position. In the end a some scientist from NASA claimed that Apples statements about the retina display were in fact true. Yet you still hear grumblings on the web about how Apple are misleading customers about this.

Another problem with many of these stories is the fact that many bloggers* seem to be missing the word allegedly from their vocabulary. Take the infamous Gizmodo and the iPhone prototype story. They happily took the word of some random guy that he just found the phone and that everything was on the up and up with his story. If a real newspaper had run that story (and they wouldnt) they would have said that the phone was allegedly found in a bar. And yet as this story spread there were, and still are many, people who happily side with Gizmodo and the random guy (who in the light of the information released by the police seems somewhat shady) and believe their version of events verbatim, even over the evidence released by the police. They prefer to believe the conspiracy about Apple rather than the far more down to earth and realistic version of what probably happened. The thing is, they did have a legitimate story there and they could have handled it very differently. The real headline should have been Guy claims to have iPhone prototype and is attempting to sell it. They could have cooperated with the police to recover the phone and that should have been the story, not, look at us, we one upped Apple. The real story should have been outing the guy who was trying to pawn it off not the poor engineer who allegedly lost it.

I could go on and on with examples of how the technology press has taken something innocuous about Apple and blown it out of all proportion. I guess at the heart of it all is a desire to see something (in this case Apple) successful humiliated in the same way that tabloid and celebrity gossip rags earn a roaring trade. The tech press has become the silicon valley equivalent of hello with certain bloggers becoming the paparazzi that camp out outside some starlets home going through her garbage in the hope of finding some incriminating pair of panties or something. In the real world Apples customers (the vast majority of which dont read technology websites or magazines) continue to buy Apples products at unprecedented rates and continue to be enamoured with the consumer electronics maker, all the while tech pundits are desperately trying to get the perfect shot of Apple with its knickers down.

(* before some bloggers start giving out that Im unfairly targeting them, Im not. Im talking about the so called blogs that are really just online magazines calling themselves blogs because it allows them to get away with far more than they would if they tried to be real magazines)


ALL YOUR RECEPTION ARE BELONG TO US
Don't be fools. Utilize your skepticism. Don't make sweeping conclusions based on fractured reports that have no frame of reference.
post #271 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR View Post

It seems incontrovertible that Apple simply is not test devices in any meaningful way or in a way that any reasonable consumer would use the devices. It seems self-evident that a consumer would cradle the expensive little thing so that it would not slip out of their hand and break on the floor.

Remember that the stolen iPhone purchased by Gizmodo was in a modded 3GS case. I would wager that for secrecy purposes most field testing for iPhones was performed with cases on, so Apple was never aware how serious this problem really was. That said, the fact that Apple started to sell "bumpers" out of a non-conductive material that just happen to fix the problem leads me to believe that they knew that, at least in theory, this could be an issue for some users some of the time.

They should have packaged a black or white bumper with each phone along with a notice that said "Under certain circumstances, some users may experience reception issues with iPhone 4. If this applies to you, merely attach the included bumper. If problems persist, contact your cellular service provider." Marketing nightmare solved.
post #272 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by motrek View Post

Okay, i guess I misunderstood how capacitive touchscreens work.

Re: point #1, what you're saying about the resistance between antennas may be true but how do you explain that bridging the antenna gap with skin is, for most people, the only reliable way to reproduce this problem? I understand that people argue about how to repro this problem but I have seen dozens or maybe hundreds of reports that when the gap is covered with scotch tape, a piece of paper, fingernail lacquer, or a rubber/plastic case, then the problem disappears. Basically even the thinnest layer of insulation is enough to solve the problem so I HAVE to assume that the electrical conductivity of human skin is playing a role.

If the issue is related to conductivity, it's far more likely to be perspiration, not skin that is increasing conductivity. That would also explain why some experience it, and some don't. I would think the software that deals with signal variations needs to respond faster to signal changes. They probably went a little too conservative to preserve battery life, at the expense of allowing the signal to degrade too far before cranking up the power. In any case, I'm not overly concerned. A $20 dollar case solves the issue and I've never owned a phone without a case. I think the trolls are probably thicker than the folks with a valid complaint. I notice that most have 1-50 posts and are proclaiming everything from Steve == Hitler, to the world is doomed and Android is our only hope. I'm not overly concerned. If they are unable to resolve the issue via software, I've never had an issue with Apple support, including getting a new replacement for my phone after owning it 9 months, free shipping if my orders were delayed, and so on. They have always been very service oriented, and I don't expect that to change any time soon.
iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 24" Dual Core 3.06 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 4
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iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 24" Dual Core 3.06 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 4
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post #273 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller_007 View Post

Remember that the stolen iPhone purchased by Gizmodo was in a modded 3GS case. I would wager that for secrecy purposes most field testing for iPhones was performed with cases on, so Apple was never aware how serious this problem really was.

That said, the fact that Apple started to sell "bumpers" out of a non-conductive material that just happen to fix the problem leads me to believe that they knew that, at least in theory, this could be an issue for some users some of the time.

1) So you've concluded that because this test iPhone 4 was found with case that no iPhone 4 was ever used without such a case to such a small desgree that using Field Test Mode would have never shown them this issue during the "few" times they did use it case off? Hell you don't even need to use Field Test Mode to see it, you touch it and a few seconds later it says No Service. That seems unlikely to me even for companies that don't take quality control seriously.

2) Are cases typically made of RF blocking materials like metal? post hoc, ergo propter hoc to the extreme.

3) If this is a design flaw affecting all iPhones and they knew about it why didn't they ship all iPhones with it. All they needed to do is change the box internals a little and it'll fit.

4) The Bumpers do have metal in them.

5) The fact is, this problem shouldn't be happening at all, and since it's not happening to everyone it's clearly an isolated issue. How widespread is still unknown, but it's certainly not a design flaw simply from using the frame as an antenna or it would be happening to every iPhone 4.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #274 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper View Post

Say, aren't you a kiwi? If I'm wrong, then my apologies.

But if so, nice to nail the Welshmen but pity round two wasn't as definitive, huh. Cowen was off song. Thank the good lord for Piri Weepu eh?

Ireland were also unlucky against the Wannabees, too.

With a name like Chopper I'm picking you're an Aussie. Explains a lot really.

Yes I am Kiwi.

Incidentally I was wrong in that Germany was one of the countries that received the original iPhones. Of course that was 2007 and something tells me Germany isn't one to rest on old technology.
post #275 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

5) The fact is, this problem shouldn't be happening at all, and since it's not happening to everyone it's clearly an isolated issue.

Yeah... but what most fail to recognize is

1. ALL CELL PHONES ALWAYS DO THIS

and

2. ISOLATED REPORTS WITHOUT TOWER DATA ARE MEANINGLESS


So ... what it clearly is is not clear. We have reports with no frame of reference. A lot of them. All these reports are meaningless. They speak nothing at all towards whether there is something wrong with iPhone 4, or just their iPhone 4, or nothing wrong at all.

Gizmodo is using their limited power for evil.
post #276 of 604
I have an issue when using landscape mode my reception drops almost immediately. But if hold the phone in my left hand (still landscape) everything is ok.

I don't use a case as I like the naked feel when using the phone. I'll wait a bit in case there is an update from Apple, otherwise back to my 3G S which was happy in landscape mode.
post #277 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR View Post

It seems incontrovertible that Apple simply is not test devices in any meaningful way or in a way that any reasonable consumer would use the devices. It seems self-evident that a consumer would cradle the expensive little thing so that it would not slip out of their hand and break on the floor.

It seems equally obvious that the present problem was well know to Apple and Steve who simply ignored it. It would not have been at all difficult to have designed the device to avoid this problem or failing that to have included something akin to the bumper with the phone in the first place.

Not only that, but Steve, once again, pumped out misinformation, this time about upgrades. His credibility declines with nearly every presentation he performs.

Apple's responses to these entirely preventable issues have been very disappointing, indeed.

Practically every seasoned member of this forum is calling Jobs on this bullshit. Great, 'cause that's exactly what it is. We're not going to take it Jobs. You might convince the fanboys, but you don't convince the rest of us. No Sir-e-Bob. Fix this properly and stop insulting your users.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #278 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillin View Post

Yeah... but what you fail to recognize is

1. ALL CELL PHONES ALWAYS DO THIS
and

2. ISOLATED REPORTS WITHOUT TOWER DATA ARE MEANINGLESS


So ... what it clearly is is not clear. We have reports with no frame of reference. A lot of them. All these reports are meaningless. They speak nothing at all towards whether there is something wrong with iPhone 4, or just their iPhone 4, or nothing wrong at all.

Gizmodo is using their limited power for evil.

1) I'm more likely to take you seriously if you don't use obnoxious markup.

2) Yes, all devices that transmit and receive electromagnetic waves can be blocked. That does not mean that the claims which are highly reproducible are false or within the accepted range of attenuation from the human hand.

3) It would be great to have cell data see if the issue is specific to a particular operating band, RF signal strength range, or some other characteristic or group of characters, but we simply don't it and likely won't until someone can crack the Field Test Mode app in iOS 4.0 (if it's still there at all).

4) I say we have enough data to show there is an issue that it unsuitable for cellphones for those affected. The data does not show there is a design flaw with the iPhone 4. The data leans toward it being a HW issue for those affect, but it's still possible it simply a SW/driver issue (perhaps with one of the TriQuint chips).
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #279 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Practically every seasoned member of this forum is calling Jobs on this bullshit. Great, 'cause that's exactly what it is.

Except that... everyone is wrong. Maybe Jobs could have been a little less abrasive... but what he said is true, all cell phones can reproduce this effect... yes, even dropping calls completely when you touch a certain spot near the antenna.
If you use your cell phone in areas of poor reception, you will have reduced service.

THAT seems obvious. I'm not sure why everyone is missing this fact.
post #280 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

But those of us that are having signal loss and dropped calls just because we hold our phone in a completely normal fashion have a right to post our experiences about that without being painted in a negative light.

We should not have to so rigorously defend ourselves for report a problem.

Hear hear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

I am going to go to my local Apple store in a couple of hours and return my phone for a new one. Hopefully it won't have the signal loss issue.

And if the new one does have the issue?
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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