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Death Grip hysteria may end Monday with iOS 4.01 - Page 2

post #41 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by alectheking View Post

Did you even read the article you linked? It excludes the 3GS... And yes, ive tried that already.

Sorry, I saw the title and it said 3GS so I assumed it worked. I didn't bother reading it because it doesn't apply to me.
post #42 of 604
If this story is right, and I hope it is, look at all the time spent and wasted on this topic over the past two days.

At least the iPhone haters had their fun. Hopefully, the iPhone faithful will have the last laugh.
post #43 of 604
To determine whether this is just a problem with the software measurement of the signal strength, I tested the actual data throughput speed in both unheld and held states. The impact of holding the iPhone in your hand is SEVERE, cutting up/down speeds to a fraction of their unheld potential. Here are the results.



Maybe/hopefully this can be fixed in software, but it's not just about measurement in the UI, nor is it a typical issue that affects all phones.
post #44 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsNly View Post

Where'd you get that figure? I'm right-handed and I hold my phone in my right hand and use my thumb.

Talking about figures. No one know how widespread this issue is. We know that Apple sold at least 600K iPhone pre-orders. No one here will tell you how many are having this signal/grip "issue" but they still act like the sky is falling and how the antenna design is flawed

This happens every time Apple release a new device or model.
post #45 of 604
This just reminds me that Apple is still a relatively new cell phone manufacturer.
post #46 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Yesterday, my wry tweet, "Blocking iPhone 4 antenna kills reception. Blocking mic kills audio, and covering the screen makes it impossible to see Retina Display" made it to the front page of Twitter and was retweeted more than a hundred times by people following the hullabaloo.

You make it sound as if people are covering the antenna on purpose just to complain. This is my first post and I just registered to say that I don't try to cover the antenna, I just pick the phone with my hand like I've normally done with my previous iPhone and the signal goes away. This certainly is a design flaw because how are you not supposed to cover the antenna if the antena is surrounding the entire phone?.
post #47 of 604
This is noise marketing
post #48 of 604
Truth is no one really knows the issue and it's conjecture (even on my part). If the software fix that's coming soon doesn't fix the issue then it is a hardware issue.

The big mistake that Apple made was to tellpeople they're holding it the wrong way.
post #49 of 604
So I'm a righty, but whenever I'm doing anything besides calling with the phone, I hold it in my left hand (and operate with the right), in portrait mode, in the "death grip." Honest question: how else am I supposed to hold it? What righty doesn't hold it this way when browsing the internet or doing almost anything else in portrait mode? Holding it at the top not only feels unnatural and precarious, but clearly Apple didn't intend it that way since pinching it up there ends up pressing the volume buttons by accident.

So again, honest question: who doesn't hold the phone braced by their palm in the lower-left corner when in their left hand? I've probably seen 1000 people with iPhones in NYC over the years, and I can't recall a single one holding it any other way when holding it with one hand and operating the screen with the other.
post #50 of 604
Quote:
"It appears that iOS 4, more so than previous iPhone software, presents a less accurate signal meter..."

If data throughput is used as a "proxy" for signal strength, then I get 0 signal strength with the death grip.

Quote:
"the fact that the issue seems easily reproducible when connecting to a WWAN 3G network but does not appear when connecting to a Microcell 3G

At least one person posting on AI wrote that the problem arises when using their nearby Microcell.
post #51 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

This just reminds me that Apple is still a relatively new cell phone manufacturer.

and innovator.
post #52 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

Truth is no one really knows the issue and it's conjecture (even on my part). If the software fix that's coming soon doesn't fix the issue then it is a hardware issue.

With the tautological addendum of "...HW issue for those with the HW issue." as there is still no evidence to suggest that it's a design flaw affect all iPhone 4s.

Quote:
The big mistake that Apple made was to tellpeople they're holding it the wrong way.

I agree with this. I wish he's stop replying to emails at all. I think it's a waste of time that doesn't nothing to benefit their products, stock or their consumer base.
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post #53 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnako View Post

You make it sound as if people are covering the antenna on purpose just to complain. This is my first post and I just registered to say that I don't try to cover the antenna, I just pick the phone with my hand like I've normally done with my previous iPhone and the signal goes away. This certainly is a design flaw because how are you not supposed to cover the antenna if the antena is surrounding the entire phone?.

Is it is bad enough to take your phone back. This is a risk of high tech on day one. The problem could be a simple mistake on the production line or a software bug, or a design deficiency, the fact that it only occurs under certain conditions and is reproducible like changing the antenna wavelength by creating a short across the gap, means the engineers will have an easy time figuring out what is going on. The RSI #bars is pretty much meaningless and is an approximation especially when two way commas are not established with the tower. I would use a case until Apple has a chance to resolve issues
post #54 of 604
Oh please oh please let the next iPhone OS update include being able to turn off multi-tasking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
post #55 of 604
I dropped by the Apple store to do a little experiment for my own benefit and to check out the iPhone 4. First:

It's beautiful. The screen looks awesome, the interface is snappy, and the camera rocks, even in the fluorescent lighting of the Apple store. Protip: it's really fun to scroll through the camera memory to see all the people who took pictures of themselves.

What I did:

I walked around to the iPhone displays (12 of them) and held each phone deliberately trying to cause the problem. I held the phone in my left hand with the seam directly in my palm. I held each phone there for about a minute, sometimes less if the issue arose faster than that. I did not make any calls, and I relied only on the meter to tell me if the reception went away.

Results:

The signal dropped to one bar on all 12 of the phones. The signal never dropped to "No Signal". Because I did not attempt to make any phone calls, I do not know if this caused the call quality to be bad or diminished at all.

I also asked some people who were beside me to hold the phone in the same way. Sure enough, they saw the bars go away as well.

Conclusions:

There definitely is an issue. Since I only tested phones from one Apple store, it could have just been that this Apple store got a bad batch. An apple employee mentioned that the problem may have been related to a certain build week. Generally, retail employees are full of crap though.

I wouldn't advise you to run back to the store and demand your money back. It is possible that a software update on Monday will fix these woes. However, it is also possible that this is a hardware problem, so if you haven't already ordered one, I'd advise you to hold off, or order one with caution.

Obviously, this wasn't a scientific test. But for me, it was enough evidence for me to hold off on ordering an iPhone 4.

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post #56 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofabutt View Post

Oh please oh please let the next iPhone OS update include being able to turn off multi-tasking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why? Don't like it? Don't us it. From what I gather, most apps are just in suspended state and don't use resources or battery. The obvious exceptions are streaming radio, etc.
post #57 of 604
Gathering evidence from the reports on the web, this does not seem to be related to signal attenuation. Rather it seems to be related to shorting the GPS/WiFi antenna and the 3G antenna with your sweaty palms.

If it were merely signal attenuation then the solutions that seem to be working for people would not (e.g. putting a piece of transparent tape (an insulator) over the area where your palms would short the two antennas).

A simple test of this being correct or not would seem to be testing signal strength with your bare hands, and testing it again wearing non-conductive latex gloves.

You don't seem to mention this aspect of the story at all, instead focusing on perceived body attenuation.

If this is a shorting problem, I doubt any imagined quick fixes in software will have any effect other than to mask the issue.

Oh, and everyone, including the author, who is in a frenzy about this 'issue' seems to also be ignoring the preponderance of reports that also indicate that the new iPhone 4 has much better general voice quality and reception than any previous iPhone on AT&T. So everyone should calm down a little it seems.
post #58 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milford View Post

So again, honest question: who doesn't hold the phone braced by their palm in the lower-left corner when in their left hand? I've probably seen 1000 people with iPhones in NYC over the years, and I can't recall a single one holding it any other way when holding it with one hand and operating the screen with the other.

Hold it with only your fingers!

What apple should do is program the UI to always display that it has 5 bars, thereby covering its own ass and AT&Ts ass as well.

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post #59 of 604
So is this happening anywhere else in the world or just AT&T here at home?
post #60 of 604
Where are you getting this information from?

There are numerous reports of the problem happening with Microcells. I've repeated the issue multiple times with two different microcell units. I've spoken to several friends who can repeat this with their microcells.

You really think all this can be solved with a software update?
post #61 of 604
Made a trip to the local Apple store today - picked up an iPhone 4 (literally picked it up can't afford to by one till my bonus comes in) - and was able to repeatedly kill the bars by holding it in my right hand as I would while typing a text or email etc.

Also - Retina Display - wow - by comparison my current iPhone 2G looks fuzzy.
post #62 of 604
Following instructions given, I've still yet to be able to replicate the problem. On top of that, I'm a southpaw chick so I should be in the effected percentage. My iPhone4 is naked, and to be honest, had I not followed the instructions to replicate the problem, I would never have known i had a problem phone if I'd received one. I do not know how people can hold their phone like that. I kinda feel bad that there are people out there with effected iPhones, but at the same time, I'm glad my little Amaterasu is problem free.


With that said, the bumpers are cute, I would have gotten one, had they been in stock.
post #63 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

Also - Retina Display - wow - by comparison my current iPhone 2G looks fuzzy.

It's more than just pixel size that makes the iPhone 4 display world above the previous models.
http://prometheus.med.utah.edu/~bwjo...etina-display/
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post #64 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

Truth is no one really knows the issue and it's conjecture (even on my part). If the software fix that's coming soon doesn't fix the issue then it is a hardware issue.

The big mistake that Apple made was to tellpeople they're holding it the wrong way.

Yep. What you said.
post #65 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Flawless?

you don't even own an iphone ???
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post #66 of 604
A question:

This loss of signal that is happening (according to this article) has to do with the switching from one spectrum to another on ATT. It seems to be happening in England too. However, not in Germany. Do the carriers in England use the same two parts of the spectrum that ATT does?

Also-- if it is an issue of reporting signal, what does it matter if there is no signal (once one touches the phone)? One still can't make a call, correct?

Also-- while touching it is WiFi data speed affected?



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post #67 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3v3 View Post

This is useful for people who get the issue with no decrease in quality/data speeds, but what about people that do? I don't think a misrepresentation of connection quality would lead to an ACTUAL decrease in connection quality.

If you read the article completely, you'd realize that this is not what the fix is reported to do:

Quote:
The fix is expected to address a issue in iOS 4 related to radio frequency calibration of the baseband. Readers who saw the original forum discussions say that the issue is believed to occur when switching frequencies; because the lag is allegedly not calibrated correctly, it results in the device reporting "no service" rather than switching to the frequency with the best signal to noise ratio.

So, while better reporting of signal strength may result from this, or be incorporated as another change, this fix looks to be actually functional and not merely cosmetic.
post #68 of 604
Quote:
Apple's chief executive stoked a whiplash of blogger frenzy when he reportedly responded that users "were holding it the wrong way," blocking the signal with their hands.

This is a blatant misquote.

What he said was: "Non issue. Just avoid holding it in that way."

It still isn't a helpful response, but there's a big difference.
post #69 of 604
Reading a number of these reactions to a weird problem is tiresome. The iPhone was no doubt tested in many different ways but the collection of tests cannot cover every possible situation that might occur in actual use. Unfortunately a number of under achievers are superb whiners. If they had ever achieved anything in their life, they would be holding it up as the way to to things right. None have.

As many have suggested, Apple is likely working hard to solve the problem and adding a new set of tests to their collection. Until they solve the problem, the whiners will get their chance to demonstrate their prowess at complaining about the achievements of others.
post #70 of 604
The fact that a bumper or case fixes it means that the external antenna is a design flaw, period.
post #71 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomMcIn View Post

Reading a number of these reactions to a weird problem is tiresome. The iPhone was no doubt tested in many different ways but the collection of tests cannot cover every possible situation that might occur in actual use.

Yeah, like the possible situation of holding the phone in your left hand.

Try plunking down $450 for two phones (incl tax) and be told that you're holding it wrong when you lose signal strength and the data speeds drop to near zero (per speedtest.net app). Absurd.
post #72 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomMcIn View Post

Reading a number of these reactions to a weird problem is tiresome. The iPhone was no doubt tested in many different ways but the collection of tests cannot cover every possible situation that might occur in actual use. Unfortunately a number of under achievers are superb whiners. If they had ever achieved anything in their life, they would be holding it up as the way to to things right. None have.

As many have suggested, Apple is likely working hard to solve the problem and adding a new set of tests to their collection. Until they solve the problem, the whiners will get their chance to demonstrate their prowess at complaining about the achievements of others.

Are you an AAPL shareholder or something? What's it to you if someone complains about a genuine problem -- it surely isn't affecting you.

Some of you take complaints of others too personally for some reason, like a complaint against Apple is hurting you.

That being said, more problems; this time with the proximity sensor:

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...ning-properly/
post #73 of 604
I really don't see what the issue is with this as a supposed problem. Others have already mentions that whether they think Apple ought to have discovered and done it, or whether they will do it themselves, there are plenty of ways to create a barrier to prevent skin contact from connecting the two antennas.

So at a minimum, whether it be you with some clear nail polish, or a Foxconn worker, or an Apple genius, it isn't a hard problem to solve for and that means that it can be taken care of easily and quickly.

If it gets bad enough I suppose Apple can send you all a bottle of clear nail polish (or preferred alternative) and a piece of paper with an iTunes code on it redeemable for $2 worth of songs to cover your actual effort.

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post #74 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by skottichan View Post

Following instructions given, I've still yet to be able to replicate the problem. On top of that, I'm a southpaw chick so I should be in the effected percentage. My iPhone4 is naked, and to be honest, had I not followed the instructions to replicate the problem, I would never have known i had a problem phone if I'd received one. I do not know how people can hold their phone like that. I kinda feel bad that there are people out there with effected iPhones, but at the same time, I'm glad my little Amaterasu is problem free.


With that said, the bumpers are cute, I would have gotten one, had they been in stock.

I replicated the effect on 12 different iPhone4's at the Apple store. Granted, they could have been all from the same bad batch, but if its a software problem, this is unlikely.

It may have more to do with the conductivity of your skin. If your skin is less conductive, its logical that you wouldn't experience the same effect.

QED you are a robot and your skin is made of silicone.

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post #75 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

If it gets bad enough I suppose Apple can send you all a bottle of clear nail polish (or preferred alternative) and a piece of paper with an iTunes code on it redeemable for $2 worth of songs to cover your actual effort.

Hmmm. I think I'll just wait till they fix it, and buy a phone that actually works out of the box.

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post #76 of 604
Amongst other howlers, I thought this red herring was amusing for its inclusion...

"Webb also noted that neither the regulatory tests performed by the FCC during its approval process, nor the antenna efficiency tests performed by the carrier (AT&T) during its own device requirements testing take into account how a user's hand might play into the antenna design and the test results."

If that's even true, it sure doesn't absolve Apple from "tak[ing] into account how a user's hand might play into the antenna design and the test results".

So thanks DED for another terrific example of the 'flack' arts. I hope Apple pay you handsomely because you sure spend a considerable amount of time spinning for them.
post #77 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

Apple will work these issues out then everyone who bought will have a slick piece of hardware. I'm sure there are people out there actively trying to make this more of an issue than it really is. At least we don't have the class action lawsuits springing up.

Not yet....what'cha wanna bet if Apple's "fix" doesn't fix the problem. Then the lawsuit fags will be out in droves...
post #78 of 604

Wouldn't revert the baseband though.

[Taking Tin Foil Helmet Off]

Could it be that Apple, knowing that an unlock for iOS 4.0 is going to be released within hours of it's official public release, deliberately crippled the baseband in order to draw the unlock out and dissect it, fix the backdoor and release it with the baseband which doesn't have the drop outs, leaving the jailbreak community to wait for a new unlock to be found?

[Putting Tin Foil Helmet Back On]
post #79 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

I'm right handed but always hold phones in my left hand, then use my right hand to prod the touch screen. Isn't that how everyone uses them?

Funny, I'm left handed and my left ear is the "best" so I use my left hand to hold the phone. But when I need to type, I change to holding the phone n my right hand and type with the left. I haven't mastered the "two thumbs" typing mode yet.

I'm thinking of trying some red electrical tape I have and applying it to the antenna on the iPhone 4. Could add a little splash.
post #80 of 604
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubiousutility View Post


Maybe/hopefully this can be fixed in software, but it's not just about measurement in the UI, nor is it a typical issue that affects all phones.

Nice post, good photos, well displayed. But it seems you are in a low RF area due to the speed you have when the phone is on the table. I'd expect speeds of around 3000 kbps but you are a little over 1000. I get similar results when I am in a low RF area. With strong RF, I can't show any difference in download speeds no matter how I hold the phone. My d/l speeds are around 3 mbps.

As we all know, low RF will increase the carrier to noise ratio and the data rate has to slow down. Just like Wi-Fi, the stronger the RF, the faster the download.

BTW, my iPhone is fantastic. Bought the video editing program. Great but needs a few minor improvements like letting you add titles to still photos.
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